Cayenne
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I've found Leo_G's and Umbral's inputs to be immensely productive.Originally Posted by PennyPA
Having a productive discussion requires some preparation and the right information. As pointed out, other threads have recently discussed this. You make no mention or attempt to add in points from past discussions, just another thread.
Out of curiousity, why is 'just another thread' a bad thing? Is there some limited resource at play in this forum that I'm unaware of? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Mr_Right
And if you wanted to discuss the merits and flaws of your ideas, why didn't you when you had the chance from the get-go? Perhaps you should worry less about contemplating who gets 'offended' at what, and more about how the valid points against your idea can (and should) adjust your final product.I think you are correct, and that people shouldn't worry about being offended.Quote:Originally Posted by Mr_RightJust because you didn't single anyone out doesn't mean people shouldn't take offense.
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Quote:I don't have a problem with people finding flaws in my ideas. Finding the flaws is part of the reason I posted it in the first place. The other part was, of course, provoking discussion that might turn into a genuinely good set of ideas.Originally Posted by Mr_Right
No. You pointed fingers at EVERYONE by implying that only SOMEONE was finally responding how you wanted. Just because you didn't single anyone out doesn't mean people shouldn't take offense. It means you're trying to back peddle to cover your rear. You were "careful not to point fingers", that means you knew exactly what you were doing.
Perhaps instead of crying foul over people pointing out how horrid your initial idea is, you should put a little thought into it and try and adjust according to what blatant and obvious problems were pointed out from the get go.
I didn't post a laundry-list of rebuttals mostly because they were indeed valid points. If something is true, why argue against it? Likewise, I don't mind if people take offense. This is the internet, and no matter the subject someone will always be able to take offense... but it's interesting to see who takes offense, and at what.
Sometimes having a discussion is the best way to fix a bad or incomplete idea. With enough viewpoints, all problems will be found eventually. -
Quote:I was careful not to point fingers. Taking it personally... well, that's your choice.Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Excuse me, but I didn't "Knee Jerk" or "Flame".
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Finally someone willing to think about the idea rather than just knee-jerk flame!
I can totally agree that grazes would be more fair to resist-based sets by letting the secondary effects leak through defenses on defense-based sets. Minimal damage, and perhaps a slightly reduced effect from the controls and debuffs? -
Some to-hit debuff powers can slot accurate to-hit debuff sets, while others cannot, and there doesn't seem to be any reason for this.
Powers that CAN take accurate to-hit sets:
Trick Arrow/Flash Arrow
Traps/Seeker Drones
Ninjitsu/Blinding Powder
Powers that CANNOT take accurate to-hit sets:
Fire Control/Smoke
Devices/Smoke Grenade
Night Sidow Training/Smoke Grenade
Why not let them all take accurate to-hit debuff sets? -
The simple way to fix that problem is to let some enemies still keep the normal settings. It's pretty reasonable for EBs and AVs to be missed occasionally, like they are now, and you do have a point about the drones and PPs. I still think it would be beneficial to make the default game mechanic be a graze instead of a miss, except for special enemies.
I suppose giving the enemies 1% more HP than they have now, if you really think that the extra 1% damage you'll be doing really needs to be balanced, would be a good idea. (5% miss into 1/5th damage is an extra 1% damage) -
But I note you didn't say anything about the HEROES not missing. Do you think that that's a good idea, or are you simply preparing a similar flame about the poor slaughtered minions, lieutenants, and bosses in the game?
To be a little less facetious, though... really, is there a problem with players never missing? Ignore the EBs and AVs for now. -
Missing isn't fun, and everyone hates it when they miss after eating a yellow or using a build-up.
Why not change the game a bit? Instead of a miss, why not have a 'graze' doing maybe 1/5th damage? A moment of 'Oh, I barely hit' is a lot better than 'I just used Sands of Mu and now I get to stand here looking stupid for three seconds while I whiff again and again'.
Maybe leave minions, lieutenants, and bosses with the normal rules, but change EBs and AVs to also never miss? -
How about letting the players use any existing emote that's of the right length to activate a power, or let us set a macro like "powexec_name Personal Force Field$$em cower"? Sure, firing off Flares whole emoting dontattack might look a little silly, but why not?
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Since the trade barriers are coming down anyway, and we'll be able to email all of this back and forth, why not just make event salvage global? There's no real limit to how much you can carry anyhow.
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It seems like EVERY enemy has a ranged attack, and a lot of them are pretty stupid. Why not let enemies taunt players? It could have the same effects as a player taunt... you can only hit THAT enemy, and your range is reduced, possibly to melee range.
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Quote:At worst, people will still use the markets. The best thing that could happen is depleting the RMT coffers, driving up their prices radically. But people will only use the markets if there's currently a supply, and people can be impatient. This is the 'buy it now' option, and it costs more for the convenience.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
The best that will happen from these ideas is that players will ignore those vendors and continue to use the market, AE tickets, and merits to get what they want and nothing will change.
At worst you will be encouraging players to use RMT sites to get the inf needed to buy stuff from those vendors.
I really don't see the devs shooting the game in the foot by implementing something that would give players a reason to do things that will get their accounts banned. -
Quote:The answer to that still seems to be to make very, very expensive vendors for things that people want anyhow. Make a salvage vendor that sells salvage for 1000x the normal cost: 250,000 for common, 1,000,000 for uncommon, 5,000,000 for rare. Make a recipe vendor that sells recipes for 10,000x the normal cost: 100,000,000 for a rare recipe at level 50, 50,000,000 for an uncommon one. Allow people to buy respecs in-game with enough inf. Make some powerful but temporary buffs that are expensive. Let people buy titles. Let people trigger special events by spending enough, perhaps on a timer.Originally Posted by CoyoteShaman
I think you're confusing "simple" with "easy".
For new players, especially players that are new to MMOs or worse computer games in general, some things we longer-term players take for granted.
CoH was my first MMO. The only other RP computer game I'd ever played was NeverWinter Nights. The learning curve of how to actually play the game was pretty simple, but the details of some things were rather daunting. I'm sure the same is very true of many people who come into this game with no experience at all.
I agree that simplication of the details, as opposed to making the game easier, is a very good idea. The market is one of those things people with no experience in MMOs, RPGs or computer games in general shouldn't be expected to explore until after they get more comfortable with the gestaldt.
That being said, I can't say removing levels from enhancements is the way to go. I don't think it would remotely affect the inf sink at the higher levels and would decrease it at the lower levels, therefore making a slight increase in inflation. Instead, I think we should consider how to make a significant impact on the higher level inf amounts and then look at simplification for newer players. Alternatively, and more likely, we should look at non-influence-affecting ways to simplify the transition between noob and vet.
I have no answers for how to do that.
The important thing about vendors is that the inf is removed from the game, unlike the market. Give players a compelling enough reason, and they'll spend inf that way. -
Quote:Actually I had no idea those even existed, and I've already pre-ordered GR so it would be pointless for me to care about them anyhow. Also, she.Originally Posted by Forbin_Project
It just dawned on me what this is really all about. He just wants unlimited access to the enhancements in the Going Rogue Gamestop Pre-Order perks.
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Quote:1 - I will still maintain that that particular inf sink is taking inf from the wrong segment of the population. We need more sinks for rich, experienced players, not for people just starting out.Originally Posted by PennyPA
I would say:
1) another inf sink is gone, which we don't need in this game.
2) it would make generic IOs worthless since crafting cost for salvage and crafting itself would be greater than just buying a DO or SO. (another inf sink lost like on those 50 IOs even if lvl50 IOs are better than an SO...)
3) not everyone, new and old, use IOs
4) an incentive to switch to IOs since they don't decay and suddenly learn about this market-thingy and all the crazy sets
5) and this game is insanely easy already. You seem to be portraying new players as totally clueless about video games and incapable of learning things in a game.
2 - Since the enhancements would be level-less, they would just follow the progression that a +0 enhancement has now, and at every level where generic IOs exist, they are better than the best available TO/DO/SO. The people that have the inf to replace IOs every few levels will be doing just that, exactly as they do now.
3 - Then a large segment of the population may find themselves elated at the simplification. More importantly, if anyone reading this does not use IOs, please chime in with your opinion!
4 - The incentive is a higher bonus, as well as lack of decay. The higher bonus won't change, and for an experienced player, that is a MUCH more powerful incentive.
5 - I've worked in technical support before, and assuming that people know what they are doing almost always comes back to bite you eventually. Make the non-important things simple! -
Quote:What I want is for the new player to have less to learn that is obsolete already, and to have an easier time transitioning into an OLD player. We should make the things that mostly affect only new players as simple as possible, so that they stick around long enough to find out about and get interested in the parts of the game that all the experienced players use.Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Are you primarily worried about the amount of $Inf on a lowbie character as they head towards the better enhancements later?
I'm not suggesting that we make IOs level-less, just the 'training-wheel' enhancements. Let's remove the decay, so that a new player never has to ask 'I went up a level, so why am I weaker now than I was before?' Yes, that only happens when your enhancements go red, but it's still something that should be avoided.
Perhaps a better way to think about this would be to turn it on its head: if level-less TO/DO/SO enhancements were the norm, what compelling reasons could you give for adding levels and decay to them? What makes that BETTER? -
Quote:Don't misunderstand me, I'm not advocating that we should change the names of the DOs and SOs at this point, just that we remove the level mechanic. This would simplify a lot of vendors' lists, as instead of having to wade through up to four sets of each, you would need only one of each. (Rikti War Zone store, I'm looking at you! Market, you too!)Originally Posted by BBQ_Pork
Regarding enhancement names: People tend to complain about the names of certain origins' SOs not being informative. What should I reasonably expect Polonium Exposure to do again? I have to right-click most of the list in the Science store and a fair portion of the Magic SO list.
Sure they're color-coded, but I find Def and Resist to look similar at the stores. Luckily, I'm not color-blind.
"Accuracy: Benedict Tech Adv. Tareting Eye" might be a better compromise, IMO.
Common IOs should retain thier simple names. They're the starter set for crafting. Set IOs have thier own naming in place. "Crushing Impact: Damage/Recharge" works for me.
Simply having the choice of TO, DO, and SO is granular enough for the game, we don't really need 30-50 versions of each. -
Ah, thank you SO much for pointing that out, AND insulting my intelligence at the same time. It was too tempting to do that rather than just post a quick pointer, wasn't it?
On top of that, it's talking about the icons, and I'm talking about removing TO/DO/SO levels. This doesn't seem relevant. -
Most of the arguments against this are of the 'if they have this problem they're doing it wrong', but I have seen people with this problem. Telling them they're doing it wrong is a terrible idea! We want them to stay and play, not leave because it was too hard or because people called them stupid... we NEED more new players, new players are what keeps games like this alive.
Don't confuse new players with too many options that don't really add a lot to the game for the amount of effort they take to understand. Most experienced players ignore the SO/DO/TO system entirely, in favor of the IO system.
To succeed, make it hard to fail. Right now, the amount of detail in the enhancements is really too much for what they do. Arguably, IOs should have taken the special names that the DOs and SOs have... crafting an Accuracy IO isn't as fun as crafting a single-origin Benedict Tech Adv. Targeting Eye would have been. In any case, something with this much detail should be far more central to the way the characters are handled, like it used to be before the IO system was introduced.
DOs and SOs aren't special anymore. Let's simplify them, so that people can spend more time on the things that ARE special! -
Quote:But my point is that we're taking the inf from the wrong people. We need to get more from the people that have it all saved up, not the newbies.Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
We need more influence sinks not fewer.
SO that never got old, would add further to the ever increasing amount of inf in circulation.
To take more inf out of circulation, add in EXPENSIVE vendors. Maybe a purple recipe vendor, that sells purples for 200 million inf each? And maybe sells respec recipes for 100 million inf as well? Or make a machine that gives a buff for a whole month, at a cost of 500 million inf... there are lots of possibilities. But they should target the people that have inf to spare, not the beginners. -
Is that really enough of a benefit to offset the grinding for inf that a new player has to experience?
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I think we should get rid of levels for normal SO, DO, and TO enhancements, and possibly HO as well. As it stands right now, new players have the majority of their inf drained away by enhancing every few levels. Why not just have level-less TO, DO, and SO? They would always be even-level, and would never expire. DO and SO could still be limited by the character's level. We could get rid of the silly 'alchemy' screen!
The effect on more experienced players would be minor, since they won't be spending the majority of their inf on enhancements in any case... most experienced players use IOs anyhow. This would make it easier on new players.
Any thoughts? Drawbacks I'm not seeing? -
I just participated in this event, and it was hugely fun! Loads of zombie swarms coming out of everywhere!
We definitely need more events like this! -
I am very unhappy about the way this was structured. I actually saw the first of the NA codes, but it was taken by the time I entered it. I realized that I was competing with people with much faster reastion times than me, and just gave up. It left me feeling quite unhappy about the whole thing.
This ended up being a form of PvP to get the codes, when they really could have just said 'be logged in on any of our servers from X to X times, and we'll send 1 or 2 lucky people per server the Mutant Pack code!'
No PvP stupidity, no giving people a rush of WOW, I GOT IT! followed by a no, I wasn't fast enough. This was executed poorly.