CB_GB

I'm back with CoH after years away and loving it once again. But things have changed mightily. My day was not only before ED, it was before Contacts had phones.

So please help me catch up on three key questions about Task Forces:

- Are player levels still restricted, now that there is Sidekicking?

- Are there pre-level 20 Task Forces I could consider? I loved Positron's, but it was long (and frequently underestimated, which made it longer as people rushed into, well, wiping).

- Can teammates be added partway through a TF? In the long ones (again, like Positron), it was painful to lose players after a few hours and be unable to replace them.

How useful is it?

Or, more specifically, is it worth getting before Hasten? Worth putting off Stamina for another level?

And do groups benefit much from GI, or can I get by with SI?

I'm largely following Local's excellent guide to Ill/Rad controllers,
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=141225

and I'm at level 12. But I've skipped Invis until I learn more.

My vitals:
- I'm a total newcomer. I have so little influence, Hellions figure I'm not worth mugging. My build needs to work with DOs/SOs.
- I like teaming for fun and experience, but so far that's limited to sewer runs and the like. With no SG, I'm likely to team only in quick pickup groups. I end up doing my missions solo.
- I play in blocks of one or two hours. My build can't count on getting an item from a longer run or TF.
- I love, love the game and my ill/rad controller. Definitely a good AT for me.


Local's suggested build:
Level 1: Blind -- Acc(A), RechRdx(3), Hold(11), RechRdx(17), Acc(31), Hold(50)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Heal(A), Heal(9), RechRdx(34), Heal(50)
Level 2: Spectral Wounds -- Acc(A), Dmg(3), Dmg(5), Dmg(5), RechRdx(31), RechRdx(43)
Level 4: Deceive -- Acc(A), Conf(11), RechRdx(15), RechRdx(31), Acc(37)
Level 6: Accelerate Metabolism -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(7), RechRdx(7), EndMod(34), EndMod(46)
Level 8: Superior Invisibility -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(9)
Level 10: Radiation Infection -- ToHitDeb(A), EndRdx(13), ToHitDeb(15), ToHitDeb(17), DefDeb(34), DefDeb(50)
Level 12: Air Superiority -- Acc(A), Acc(13), Dmg(29)
Level 14: Fly -- Flight(A), Flight(27)
Level 16: Swift -- Run(A)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(19), RechRdx(19), Acc(21), Dmg(21), Dmg(23)
Level 20: Health -- Heal(A)
Level 22: Stamina -- EndMod(A), EndMod(23), EndMod(25)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx(A), RechRdx(25), RechRdx(27)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -- RechRdx(A)
Level 28: Enervating Field -- EndRdx(A), EndRdx(29)
Level 30: Lingering Radiation -- Acc(A), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(40), RechRdx(40), Acc(43)
Level 32: Phantasm -- Acc(A), Dmg(33), Dmg(33), Dmg(33)
Level 35: Flash -- Acc(A), Acc(36), Hold(36), RechRdx(36), Hold(37), RechRdx(37)
Level 38: EM Pulse -- Acc(A), Acc(39), RechRdx(39), Hold(39)
Level 41: Fire Blast -- Acc(A), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), Dmg(42), RechRdx(43)
Level 44: Fire Ball -- Acc(A), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), Dmg(45), RechRdx(46), RechRdx(46)
Level 47: Consume -- Acc(A), EndMod(48), RechRdx(48), RechRdx(48)
Level 49: Mutation -- RechRdx(A)

Does it do coffee?


It sounds great. It's the Hover/Fly I want above all -- I'm not a Teleporter and don't need binds for it (though I'll wave as you flash past me) -- but I'm sure I'll find some of the other features useful.

Will give it a go this weekend. Thanks!

Ah, that's new to me, thanks!

I read the helpful page of your info here

but still wasn't sure about the Flight binds. It provides automatic Hover/Fly toggling, like Gnarly's?

This is indeed an old thread revived. As said in the second post, the very first reply, this should be common sense.. but it's too often missing.

So many fights can be won in this game by just rushing in. This is the first wake-up that not of them are like that.



[ QUOTE ]
I do agree talking is vital.

[/ QUOTE ]
This is the key, as to most hard fights in CoH. People who don't want to spend a few seconds coordinating will spend hours redoing the TF.


[ QUOTE ]

If for some reason you get those thick-headed people who don't want to listen there isn't much you can do about it.

[/ QUOTE ]
I try to head this off right at the start, by asking everyone if they are comfortable with three "rules" for the TF:

1) Everyone is here to finish, and has 5+ hours for it. It may take less, and RL emergencies do come up, but if you know you have only 2 hours, speak up now.

2) We'll discuss each fight before starting. "Discussion" will usually take about five seconds: "ready?" "mm first, then lum?" It's the most useful five seconds we'll spend.

3) We'll focus kill left to right unless otherwise stated - kill the baddie on the left first, then the next one, etc.



I've had some players say #$#%@ this right at the start, and I'm happy to lose them then, rather than halfway through. Most players are happy to have the above stated clearly -- I know I am when I join another TF.

Sorry to be late reponding to the post on the previous page.

- I have two versions, zipped, of the original binds from this thread, Gnarly's and Wasabi Joe's.
Both are too long for posting, but I'm happy to pass them on to anyone who wants to host them again for the community.
They're similar. Gnarly's is easier to set up -- it comes as a small .exe program that asks which powers are in use and builds the bind. Both are pretty stable, with the same occasional minor bug (on zoning, sometimes the binds need to be "reset"; both provide a key for this, so it's extremely easy).

- I can't emphasize how much better this makes hover/fly. Literally dozens of my friends and SG mates have said "I can toggle between hover/fly well on my own, no need for the bind," but when they try it, their eyes open and they never, ever go back. It's how flying was meant to be.

I've tried both Wasabi Joe's and Gnarly's -- similar, and excellent. Truly game-changing, as skeptical friends now agree.


Gnarly's is easier to start, as it has its own little setup program. But it isn't available to download anywhere I see now.



I have a zipped version of the file -- is there anyone with web space willing to host it on a simple page?

16 is the cap for starting (and getting xp -- as mentioned above, you can RSK). If you start at 16 and level to 17 in the middle, that's fine. You still get xp.

This TF is still one of my favorites. Sure, it's harder than some of the others, but your team has an excellent chance of success with smart tactics.

Level matters. Team balance matters. Speed helps. But tactics are the key here (and to any hard CoH fight).



Fight on your ground, not your enemies'. Pull them to you, don't rush to them.

Focus fire on the same target.

Communicate -- even briefly -- before each fight. A few seconds to make sure everyone is ready costs far less time than dying.

Anyone know where to get Gnarly's Hover/Fly Bind now?

this link
www.jim.cavanaugh.net/sod.htm

appears to have a dead-end for it.

What's the current status of these Hover/Fly Binds?

Reading through the nearly 60 pages of posts here (as an aside this is a terrific exchange, idea-sharing and building at its best), I see that Gnarly is now leaving us.

I've used Wasabi Joe's excellent Hover/Fly Bind, but his last post was early this summer. His usually works beautifully -- the way Flying was meant to be -- but I do have occasional lock-up/sequence problems with it.

Gnarly's posts are more recent. Is his Bind a continued improvement, or just different?

What do the Bind gurus here now recommend using?

Did this TF five more times since my last post. What's said above works.

First 3 times of recent attempts: disaster. Never made it even halfway through the first mission. Lesson:
[ QUOTE ]
Use the first mission as a gauge

[/ QUOTE ]

Completely, consistently true.


Why did we fail so badly? Loose aggro and poor attack placement. See Rules #1 and 2 below.

So I started my own team again,once as a level 15 and the next day as 16, and both went great. With a focused team, this TF is fun and not too hard. Why do so many teams make it into trouble?

After the first of these, I was set to write that a good Controller is the key (we had an excellent one, whose Holds helped greatly). A few deaths learning Rule #1 (below) on the first map, then none. Finished in 4 1/2 hours (Control, Blast, Tank. Had Scrapper and Def at start).


But the next day, we had just a 16 Blast, 14 Blast, and 16 Def (some Heals, but mostly Buffs. Fort buff was key), and did just as well (4 1/2 hours, NO deaths at all, ever).

Love Controllers, love Defs, but good team play is even more important than good team mix.



So what makes good team play on this TF?

Here's a summary of what our teams went over. There's nothing special about me as leader, nor is this genius advice. It's just common sense applied to a TF that spanks the many teams ignoring it.

Rule #1: Don't start a fight until all are ready.
So simple, so effective, so often ignored.


Rule #2: Fight on your ground, not theirs.
Bring the fight to you. Pull the baddies closer (and Back Up! Most teams rush ahead and defeat the Pull).

Let the sewer baddies come through the doors to you, not the other way around. Draw 'em back.

If you get into a surprise fight, Back Up! Go back down the hall and regroup to fight on your own ground.

Think all this takes too long? We finished ahead of teams starting before us, and could have been even faster if we were more efficient about between-mission movements. Our fighting was faster by fighting on our own terms.


Rule #3: Focus your fighting.
Kill together, rather than wounding broadly. Wounded baddies can still hurt you. Dead ones can't. Together, hit the Lums, Mires, Murks, Morts in order, or divide your roles clearly.

Kill the un-Held baddies first, then pick off the Blind/Stunned/Lifted ones. Blind/Stun/Lift the healthy ones, rather than those almost dead (who should be killed with one more blow).




That's it. Just Three Rules to make this a successful and enjoyable TF.

Below are more mini-tips on the TF, without spoilers. All amount to the same advice as above, condensed and field-tested over and over. Play smart and have more fun.

Tip #1: Take your time recruiting.
It can often take 20 minutes of messaging, broadcasting, and searching (near Positron). Good, patient players -- the kind you want -- will wait with you, or go hunting while you recruit.

Check with everyone that they can play for 5 hours. Better to aim for 5 and go faster than to promise 3 and take 6.

A good team has a good balance, so don't worry about telling the third Tanker to contact you that you need to see the shape of your team before you know if you'll have space.

I find five players ideal for this TF, but if you can manage a larger group, the difficulty isn't vastly upscaled. It is a bit, but the biggest challenge is just focusing your group. If you can do it, go for it. Expect a couple drops by the end, so start with more than three.


Tip #2: Go over the Three Rules, or your own version of them, before starting.
Once we had a team, I did this in three messages and 30 seconds, just to make sure we were all clear.

Needed to check again during the first mission -- the tempation to rush is strong -- and it paid off, each time.


Tip #3: Know your teammate's powers and maximize them.
This helps both during play -- they may have unused Buffs, or Holds that require particular play from others -- and in recruiting. A balanced team has a mix of tp's, Holds, travel powers (can get by without one if you have tp's), Heals, Buffs, and AoE attacks.


Tip #4: Thank your teammates.
This is a team effort. Don't take your Healer/Buffer/Puller/Holder for granted.


Tip #5: Make efficient use of tp's for travel.
If you have two, send one ahead to the mission and one to the SC monorail to tp the leader, who (until able to call) should always rush back to Positron.

Anyone casting a tp should warn or ask before doing so. Many players with Recall Friend assume it's okay to use any time they think so. It isn't. It's okay when both players are ready.


Tip #6: Bend the Rules when you've got 'em down.
With each successful team, we often no longer even needed to ask "Rdy?" if we were gathered together, with enough End, and facing a clear group. Our Puller could just begin, and we'd join in.

Similarly, if facing weaker opponents with a solid team, you can successfully rush some baddies. Don't push this -- dying takes a LOT longer than a simple Pull -- but if you've got a good thing going, you can make it work with a steady pattern.



Done well, the whole Positron TF is like that: a smooth flow through each fights and mission, by a solid team working together.

[ QUOTE ]
Alarmingly enough, most of this stuff *should* be common sense.

[/ QUOTE ]

Absolutely. But if you haven't seen it ignored, you must only solo.



Speaking of which, here's an addition of...



How NOT to do the Positron Task Force

Yep, got spanked this time, and it makes the above advice all the clearer. Here's what we did wrong:

- had no team focus. My fault, as team leader, thoough I found this group hard to manage.
That may be in part because I find team management harder as a Blaster; with a Controller, people get used to listening to you if they want GI, or AM, or help with RI focus, etc.
But I also failed to stand up to the players who just wanted to rush ahead. Next time, I'll take two minutes at the beginning to make sure we agree on tactics. Anyone who can't wait those two minutes is welcome to find another team.

- We had NO workable Holds or Buffs.
We had a Controller, lvl 16 ill/emp, but she didn't really know her roll (see my first post), and managed, in one hour of play, to hold exactly: squat.
Lacking RI, she needed ACC slots in Blind and Flash, but had none. Didn't score a single hit.
No Hold help from our Tanks, unfortunately.
We had two Defs, both healers, which is nice, but neither had Buffs. Our ONLY buff was GI, which we didn't get for 30 minutes, until I noticed our Controller had it and asked if she could use it.

This, btw, is MY fault, at team leader, not theirs. I did read everyone's powers, but not carefully enough, before starting the TF. Need Holds and Buffs.

I was careful about this
[ QUOTE ]
Characters probably don't have their travel powers when taking this mission

[/ QUOTE ]

but not careful enough about other powers.


- we were Tanker-heavy. 2 of 7 (plus 2 Defs and a Control), left us damage-weak. No offense to pre-level 20 Tankers, but they don't do the damage a Blaster or Scrapper does, and we were light.
Again, I just wasn't patient enough. Our team was ready to get going, and it took awhile to recruit, so I took anyone available for 5 hours.



Other observations:
- 5 hours does seem about right, with 4-6 as a standard range.
One player quit our team when I said so, insisting 3 hours was normal. I believe 3 may be possible with a team that knows the sequence, but it isn't standard. Did you do it in 3? Good for you. For everyone else, use 5 as a benchmark.

- 5 players, if they stay, is probably ideal, but our 7 didn't seem to make it as much harder as I feared. What WAS harder was getting the group to focus.

- This may be a personal issue, but I should've taken a big clue after being tp'd twice by a Def without warning, despite asking for it.
Apparently, some players don't mind surprise-tp's, and many of those who do it are annoyed at being asked to give warning. I've been called names just for asking politely for notice.
Ignore them, or don't play with them. It's poor etiquette and poor play. I can't count the number of times I've been in a safe place and then tp'd by some schmo to a not-quite-as-safe-it-should-be spot, including on this TF.


[ QUOTE ]
skip this TF, it takes longer than the 16-21 range Skyway TF, and is tons harder

[/ QUOTE ]

I actually like the Positron TF and find it loads of fun. If you don't, then obviously feel free to skip it.



[ QUOTE ]
Use the first mission as a gauge

[/ QUOTE ]

Totally accurate. Guess how far we got this time?

Next time, will be smarter. Will be smarter, will be...

This is a quick guide for other folks who, like me, are new to the Positron Task Force mission. It's great fun and good exp.

Several posts here mention how hard it is (repeated deaths and multiple attempts), but it doesn't need to be that way. We -- a group of stranger newbs -- did it without no team deaths and in about five 1/2 hours.

Could easily have shaved nearly an hour with simple tactics listed below. Some teams do it in under four, but I expect you'd need to be familiar with the sequence to do so.

You can find this info scattered on other threads, but here's a compliation:

- Start it by speaking with Positron in SC. You need a team of 3-8, levels 10-16.
- Totally possible with 3 chrs, but by starting with 6, we did fine even after losing two.
- It's ok if level 16 chrs level up to 17 during the mission.
- It's challenging. Low levels will have a hard time.
- It takes roughly 5 hours: 6 for a slower team, 4 for a fast one.
- You get a nice goody at the end. Keep an enhancement slot free.
- You can't recruit more chrs for the Task Force, so get a good crew.
- Players who Quit from the Menu bar, rather than Quit Task Force, might be able to rejoin when they log back on. We didn't test this.
- I did my recruiting next to Positron, looking for team-minded players who wanted to go all the way through.

The Task Force goes through a series of missions provided by Positron. I won't detail any spoilers here -- if you want to know the specifics, they're on other threads.


General Tactics:
I don't see any reason players why need to die -- or, worse, fail at the TF - with good team play.

The two most important:

- Start your battles when everyone is ready.
This is the simplest, most-obvious team rule and yet it's routinely ignored. If you've played any time at all in Perez or Boomtown, you've seen some schmo pick a fight when your group is out of Endurance, missing a player who's afk, or already attacking a nearby group.
Don't be a schmo, or tolerate them in your group. A simple "rdy?' takes seconds and makes for faster, more efficient fights.

- Know your roles.
As a controller, mine was to hold threatening targets while picking off the weak threats (like Embalms, who are dangerous, but easy kills, while the Blasters killed the Mires and Murks). We had another guy who did all our pulls/sniping, etc.
We also decided by default to kill the biggest baddies from Left to Right unless otherwise discussed; that helped us kill quickly rather than just wounding.

All this took us less than a minute of communcation per map ("rdy?" "Murk, Mire, then Lum?". "top of stairs first?"), and it was priceless.



Positron TF Tactics:

- Choose a diverse team.
You'll want someone for crowd control (Controllers, of course, but possible to use a Tanker at this level, or even some Defs), and a ranged attack (Blaster, really). Healers are extremely helpful, as is a frontliner, like a Scrapper, but really any mixed combo wil do.

Our team:
15 Blast
16 Control (me)
15 Def (our healer)
12 Scrapper (sk'ed with me. did fine.)
and two other 14/15 Blasts for halfway.

- Send the Team leader to talk with Positron. Send others to do the Fed-Ex tasks (some missions are combat, some are "fetch" missions requiring only one TF member to go).
Leaving the leader with Positron makes it go faster, as does having the others gather at the tram station in the meantime. Eventually, the leader can Call to Postiron.
- Use your tp's, if you have any, to leapfrog maps. We had one guy go straight to the mission while another tp'ed from the tram.
ASKING before a tp is both polite and good strategy. If you haven't yet seen a tp'ed teammate run unaware into a nearby group of baddies, you will.

- Use the first mission as a gauge.
It's one of the hardest, and you'll get to see how your team performs. If you're falling apart already, you have a loooong path ahead of you. But if you work well as a group, you probably will like the next missions, too.

Enjoy! It's great fun.