British_Lion

[ QUOTE ]
I love how the idea that having heals and buffs causing aggro somehow translates to "crippling the ATs with buffs and heals." Clearly, all kinds of actions already draw aggro, and I believe buffing and healing draws some as well (but not as much as pure damage).


[/ QUOTE ]

You are correct Kali - buffing already draws aggro and different Groups aggro differently - Freaks have buffing very low on their list and you have to work hard to draw aggro by healing in the vicinity of a Freak but other groups like the old 5th Column (I'm not sure whether the Council has the same aggro priorities) would aggro very strongly on a buffing toon.

I noticed all this when Taunt was single target and I had to work harder to keep the aggro (hence talking about the 5th) but with the changes to Taunt it is a lot harder to notice who is aggroing on what because Taunt overides all.

[ QUOTE ]
I think a lot of those who play Stalker victims in this game would benefit from the devs giving us a much clearer picture of what kind of effect stalkers are supposed to have. How good are they suppose to be? Are solo toons expected to have to keep moving constantly or find teams in PvP Zones? Do you really expect Scrappers to take both Assault and Tactics if they want to solo? Is all of this part of your design or expectation? etc...etc...


[/ QUOTE ]

Only a couple of questions for you Mieux. What do you feel is the relative risk that a Stalker must have to be balanced in PvP situations?

How safe should other AT's be if they are wandering through a zone oblivous to the fact that people with Stealth powers may be about?

If I as a Stalker decide only to hunt the NPS'c in a zone and completely ignore whether Heroes may be about how safe should I be? Should I have to keep moving to areas where there are no Heroes in the PvP zone so that I can go about my way oblivous to the fact that I am in a PvP zone?

And if I wander about a PvP zone as a Corrupter or Mastermind without taking any precautions about Stealthed Scrappers/Blasters being about should we look at ways of increasing the risk that those stealthed Scrappers/Blasters take when they defeat me?

What tests have you done on the actual risk level of Stalkers in a PvP zone? How long have you played your Stalker in PvP zones before you have decided that it is too easy for them and the difficulty should be ramped up and what targets have you taken on as a Stalker?

Stalkers did not invent the Stealth Kill - Blasters and Scrappers were doing it in the arena long before Stalkers were about.

[ QUOTE ]
Hey BL, haven't seen ya in a while. At this point, I honestly think a Brute is the best way to go. If you picked up CoV go get your SMASH!! on.

[/ QUOTE ]

Heh Nozy - I have picked up CoV but up to now haven't started a Brute, been enjoying a Stalker as a change of pace but I will be starting a brute over the next couple of days and see how it plays out - if it plays like I think it will then I will be re-rolling the Lion as a Brute because the playstyle seems to be closer to a comic book brick than Tank ever will be, just have to hope I can bring him over to the side of good at some stage (because the British Lion is a hero not a villain) and find someone willing to take all the influence that the Lion picked up over 50 levels.

As an aside from my brief time in CoV I feel that the Devs have really learnt from the mistakes they made with the CoH AT's because everyone brings damage to the table, no-one is a cripple that must team with someone else to level. It's a subtle change in the team dynamic but people still team even though they don't have to and in my opinion represents the team dynamic of supers better than the CoH dynamic.

Well, it's been a while since I have visited these boards and I have a feeling that I have hit this thread too late to have a hope of Statesman actually reading this post but I have an urgent need to chuck two cents into this discussion.

I have always agreed with Foo and Nozy about Tanks not working right but I think I have let my "Give us Comic Book Bricks" Union fees lapse but hopefully Foo and Nozy will forgive me and let me in on this discussion

So States it was an interesting test you ran and I appreciate the time that you have spent. However I would like you to run a slightly different test on your special Dev server.

Put together a similar team and run some missions.

Now change your tank for an equal level Brute and run the same missions and then answer this simple question honestly - what was more fun?

And sorry for replying to your message Iron_Vixen, but you were conveniently on the last page.

How about

x) Learn you team mates powers / tactics

Inv Tanks/Scrappers and Stone Tanks can not move when in Unyeilding Stance / Rooted. So whilst the combat is going be aware that although the Tank is acting like the Anvil that you will crush the bad guys on - that Anvil may not be moving far. If you run away from them they will be unable to taunt/provoke the bad guys that you have aggroed onto yourself off you.

It is better to aggro someone on the far side of the tank to draw them through the tank to you, or if you have someone's attention try jumping/flying over to the far side of the tank to draw them back to your aggro magnet.

X+1) Don't stand too close to your tank when the enemies use AoE attacks.

Interesting read this thread - didn't get Krunch's joke thread about a certain person hijacking his thread until I actually took the time to read this thread in its entirety.

I have no problem with the view that three even con minions are challenge for me at any level.

The problem that ruins the immersion aspect of this game is the level ranges of some 'minion' classes.

The way I would have designated minion classes is:

Levels 1-10: standard street style thugs Hellions, Skulls etc

Levels 11-20: normals with extensive training or special weapons or low level super thugs
This level would include Crey Medics, Crey Patrol Guards, Scientists, Family, Tsoo, 5th Column, Vahz, Clocks, Freaks, Trolls etc

Levels 21-30 normals with extensive training and special weapons, super powered villians/thugs etc
Would include 5th Column, Crey Tanks, Sky Raiders, Nemesis etc.

The problem currently is some minion level threats are in the wrong level ranges - Crey Medics, Patrol Guards, Mob Specialists are in the wrong level range, and they should not be minions in the level 30+ range. It is these anomalies that are causing some of the problems. A Crey Medic / Scientist should not be doing much damage at all by brawling, they are people without special training or weapons in this case - they should be doing level 1-10 scale damage.

It is also a problem that there are level 30+ minions out mugging people on the side-walk, I mean really what is going on here. These are villians with powers equal to a Hero coming into their peak abilities and they are purse snatching, roughing up civilians - they should be off planning super crimes or something at least.

Of course coding any changes along these lines now would change too much but if States was wondering why people sometimes got these funny ideas from this might give some insight.

Sounds like a good plan Statesman.

I was actually discussing with some friends the other day about how in comics Super Strength Heroes tend to hold back their full power as they feel out the enemy - you usually want to arrest/capture the bad guy - not snap him like a twig.

I was looking at having the Tanker secondaries effect the damage resistence of the more tough bad guys - sort of like the Super Strength Tank holds his strength back when fighting a Crey Medic but when he fights the Crey Power Tank he unleashes his full strength and in game terms ignores a percentage of the damage resistence that the Crey Power Tank has (was looking at say halving the damage resistence).

But your plan sounds like fun as well - good work.

/signed

Good work Krunch, if we can get some of these changes through Super Strength will be brought up to par and more fun to play for a casual player.