Blue_Centurion

We are not going to deal with the real world economy here. This is a game system economy meant to increase the enjoyment of average gamers. Yes, I keep using the word average, I know I do high level content, please refrain from pointing it out.

As far as why the amounts here are wrong, 2 Billion + per enhancer in this game economy is stupid, IMO. It tells the average gamer they will never get it. Or, under the new system, spend about 2 + months constant effort to get that one I/O, then still need 5 more of the set. For ONE enhancement set, still needing 8-10 more sets for the character to be finished. A little discouraging? A LOT discouraging. Discouraging is bad for a video game. Period. It is stupid to discourage paying customers, therefore, the price is stupid. The Devs need to look at classic conle games like Armored Core, which had diminishing returns for unlockable content, took a long time to master/complte (not YEARS) and was total fun. Why would not finishing a character end the game? 36 slots per server........

Actually, I have specifically thanked many individuals on the opposite side of this argument from me, and at least once radically altered my position due to the sense they made. I believe that I have slightly altered my position a couple times more based on the logic and common sense that I have heard from some individuals that disagreed with me.

I have taken a few philosophy classes in college, and had some lively debates. I have a couple years college level mathematics under my belt. I have debated detailed and hard to understand concepts previous to this post. Most of you do not care about this, and I am sure this will be fodder for at least one more line of juvenile insults. Am i blanket insulting again? Hmmm. Probably according to the above referenced post.

Here is a suggestion. Try to stay on topic. (Topic equals Market is broken cause I/Os cost too much) So either add some reasonable postulates explaining why the market needs to be changed, and how it can be changed, and why the Devs should do this.... OR..... Explain why the market is perfect just the way it is, AND why the Devs would harm the game by making things a little easier for new players wanting a great toon.

Side note: Insulting me, my reading skills, my heritage, my brainpower, or any other creative reference to anything not in the above Pro or Anti Market change is really not helpful, and does a disservice to everyone on the board. The disservice? It makes this post really long and boring. Please keep the posts centered on the argument. Kiddy time is over.

It seems the Devs are already moving to this line of thinking then. If their customers are unhappy because it takes forever to finish a toon, AND market manipulators take advantage of the system give people an out.

I bet you two things 1) If I had made the argument for selling purps for merits before the Devs instituted the A Merits i would have gotten flamed the same, or worse. 2) The Devs, in the future, make more moves to please their consumer base, so that (OMG, this is SHOCKING) people can have multiple purp'd out 50s after a couple years. (maybe even 5 or 6, eeek, even if it is not needed to play, oooooh)

I will not bet this, but it is my sincere hope. A) Farmers get nerfed to oblivion B) Market manipulators get "managed" to such an extent they might as well be working in cubicles for the Devs.

rylas, what I am saying is this: The Devs should SELL the recipe for 500 mil. Not chump change, but solves the problem

Did you find them? Seriously, I want to know. Did you read them? No, really. Read them. The Cuba one, the poster was like, this is not a good example because... And Guess What? Was not a good example. I am not going to explain why. You either read it and grok, or whatever. As far as the Soviet post, again, someone is not reading my posts.

The suggestion i am making for fixing the market (and improving the fun and game play enjoyment of the Devs customer base) is to have a Buy It Now feature for recipes, every recipe, Caping at say 250 mil for Purps, and 500 mil for PvP. these prices are suggested, and the Devs will prob pick a diff figure. The point is Griefers will not be able to charge 2 bill (or 3 bill) for enhancers. AND it means both those examples have no merit as counter arguments.

Some of you have serious counter arguments, some have modified my original solution to the current paradigm that i suggest. Some of you are seriously making arguments that are not worthy of responding to. You can usually tell these because they are filled with insults, little information, and a sense of self righteousness worthy of W when he invaded 2 countries and drove the American deficit into "only China will buy" territory.

So, maybe I missed that post. Could you repost where somebody in this thread gave historical real world data of this price cap situation. Beyond that, it seems you missed one post of mine. If the Devs presented a buy it now function in the markets, this would effectively cap all prices on all items SUCCESSFULLY. Cause if you try to sell an enhancer for 2,500,000,000 when your customer can buy the recipe for 500,000,000 you will be standing there a very very long time. That is why I keep getting flamed, called ignorant, told off, and suffering the slings and arrows of the malcontents. It has the possibility of ruining their abuse of the market, making the game more fair, and more fun.

The only one with access to spreadsheets of buy/sell data are the Devs. i am not a Dev. Therefore i do not have this data at my fingertips to show you. You know that, so you keep demanding it. What you are trying to avoid, is the stated purpose of the OP. 2 billion is too much for any enhancer. Anyone selling at this price (or above) is a greifer. By greifer I mean someone trying to mak the game worse for another player. We clear?

This is the first line of defense of any petty criminal, or market mastermind for that matter. "Prove it" part B of this is that they always want you to prove it with a simple one sentence statement, or show a picture of them sticking a knife in someone's back. If you dare to start discussing concepts, exploring ideas, or following threads of logic, the insults only get louder, and the indignant statements flow like water.

1) 7 years is a reasonable figure using A merits and casual drops only. 40 days (with no breaks) per Purp. 25-30 purps, depending on whether you 5 or 6 set them. that is 1,200 days for the 5 sets of purps alone. Then a couple PvP sets? Yeah.

2) So, with market prices above 2 bill for some enhancers (as you stated) , you admit that it would take over one year to afford one enhancer.

3) The ulcer thing is just nice. Shows class.

4) So, earlier you said it took you a year to get all the stuff you needed to pimp one character, without purps. But now you are going do fully purp a character in one weekend. Hmmm, someone is contadicting their own statements.

1) Want to give a definition of griefer, or just throw that like a rock?

2) I am not sure what world you live in. This one is rigged (Primal Earth, not the game). Those with money ensure teir children get better education, better degrees, better looks, socialize with better people, and make better money. Politicians routinely gut the education system, bloat the defense budget, and send the half educated populace off to war, to die. Can a natural genius frm the ghetto with a penchant for studying rise above, yes, but the system is rigged against it. How many well educated people in america are jobless over the last couple years because of market manipulation?

3) I love how you throw out that I do not know the rules of the game. In fairness, the City of Franchise has many convoluted areas that are difficult to understand, and sometimes it takes me a while to grok the knowledge. However, I am a regular layer, have been for quite a while, and have tread many areas of the game quite deeply. But my refutation of your statement is long winded and convoluted. It lacks that instantaneous bit of "Nyah Nyah big poopy head market good you dumb". Still, it brings up an excellent point. The world (City of this time) should be set up so that an average player with average time over a period of a year and a half can build a really nice character.

An excellent question. The Devs should, and I believe do, care what happens in the market, and what prices things sell for. They have set up an entire invention system that makes players interdependent on each other for collecting sets of things. The Devs are fully invested in this working. Keep in mind the title of the post. I am okay with high prices. I am even okay with really high prices. It is once prices go stupid that I feel it is necessary to comment. I believe that the Devs should be motivated to ensure that someone does not corner the market n a particular item, driving the price up into a stupid territory. What do I believe would motivate the Devs to be concerned? It takes away from the fun of the game. Having the game be fun motivates people to keep ceating/running characters. If you make something too hard then people do something else. If people do something else, they stop paying the company paying the Devs. They stop telling their friends to sign up. Discouragement is a very bad thing in video games. Never discourage your player base from trying to accomplish something in the game. Make it difficult, sure. Build in a trick you need to learn, sure. Make it so that it takes 7 years to do. Wow, no. Not good. Do not look at a videogamer and tell them it is a 7 year task. And then do not look at them and say, "you do not need it anyways to play" Not a good strategy. For a beginning player to afford a fully pimped out toon with purples and PvPs, Procs, Globals, etc. using purely the A merit system would take many years. Without doing the math exactly I would say 7 plus. Therefore they are dependent on the market to shorten this number to a reasonable period. Say, a year. By playing this one character in normal play, missions, task forces, etc, they will earn treasure, sell that, buy "needed" pieces of their dream toon. (Even if the dream is flawed, as many have pointed out that mine is) Still, we must dream. However, if someone corners the market on an item and drives the price up to 2 billion (or more) then we have a problem. A market griefer can make the entire game frustrating. I am merely suggesting to the Devs that a system should be in place to convert one form of treasure to another in a fair exchange rate is made available so that market griefers do not alienate the Devs customer base.

Also, Rodion, thanks for jumping in. Sorry you got pasted. Yes, I was talking about Enron's manipulation of the energy market. No, I did not specifically say that before. Just because I am the OP on a thread about market manipulation, and mentioned Enron as an example, I thought was enough. Will I catch flack about this, yes. Do i care, no. At this point I am merely running through 90% of the posts looking for people who are posting something besides "Nyah Nyah big poopy head market good you dumb Nyah Nyah." I am greatly pleased at the number of you that have posted constructive criticism and given thoughtful responses in this environment. It is sort of like being in 2 philosophy classes at the same time, one group discussing the topic at hand in a learning and progressive manner, and the other filled with convicts and stoners who believe that hurling insults is the most productive way to communicate.

Do you have an actual example of this in real life? Or is this Glen Beck in disguise?

Okay, this is confusing. A good percentage of posters to this thread have been yelling at me to shut up and start making money in the market by finding my own "niche" and farming it.

technical note, I have never soft capped a toon. (again, mine are almost all SOs. i built for recharge, hence the slings and arrows (some deserved I am sure) about my crappy build. It also explains the 5 purp sets (really hard to cram onto a brute btw), and finally, it explains why I am trying to get the two sets of PvP heals onto the beast.

Granted as well, i have an incomplete understanding of market mechanics. Keep in mind, i do not sit and market all day long, nor obsess about it. I do care about a fair and level playing field however. We all know people are farming that market. That is not even a point in contention (I believe) We all know it makes it harder for the average/newer gamer. It is my new hobby to try to assist this class of gamer. Thank you for continuing my education in all things market related.

A valid point. Keep in mind, I am a 42 month Vet, and this is the only toon I have that has even one purple on it. 99% of the rest of all my toons are SO slots. I farmed for another 2 billion to further enhance this toon (my main) and could not buy 2 enhancers for it. That is exactly my point. After 42 months of play it should not be impossible to have one really tricked out character. If it is, the game designers have screwed something up. That is basic marketing. Here, i am not talking about the fictional marketing in the game. I am talking about the service the "City of" franchise offers to customers. Thank you for making this very important point for me.

Actually, although I am sure this statement will be twisted, vilified, lampooned, and generally walked on, I care about gameplay. I fully have the ability to market, although it has been insinuated on the boards that basic addition escapes me. I think of myself, new to the game a few years ago, and what would make the experience more enjoyable for a new player. One simple solution to the entire problem would be market caps. Say, cap any listing price for Purps at 250 mil. Cap any for common salvage at 10,000 , etc. All of these valuations have already been placed by the designers. By enforcing a market cap on them they would allow the market to work, yet reduce the abuse to their system of the few preying on the many. I game mostly with adults when I play, having a couple channels where hard core gamers congregate stored on my toons. Great Task Forces, Hami Raids, a sweet ride. This took a long time to develop. i still remember street hunting in Port Oales with no idea what I was doing. I also remember finding out how twisted the market truly was. One of the reasons I play this particular game is the complexity of character design, from costume/animations/thru build out. For a small percentage of the gaming community to corner the market on rare (but not nigh impossible) to get items is silly. It does nothing to forward the goals of NCsoft in marketing the game to new players. This is my true belief, and the information that i will be sending to the development staff.

okay, for high priced / rare items you only need to bid a few times. a 100 billion war chest would easily accomplish this. a bid for 1 billion, 1.1 billion 1.2 billion,.... even some at half a bill, why not.

the theory is most people will price the one they get at 1.9 bill, or 1.5 bill for fast sells. You buy those (1st bid at any price is 1st filled) and relist it at 2 bill. Anybody trying to bid 1.5 bill, or 1.9 bill, has to wait for all of your 1.5 bill, or 1.9 bill bids to fill first. If they are building for a toon they will probably get impatient and bid the 2 bill. Kaching. (this kaching thing = the sound a cash register makes in old movies) So, you have effectively cornered the market and are making money off every one of these items that move. As far as where do I get a 100 billion, well, some of these crusty old marketeers have that and lots more. And once they have that much they corner market after market after market. Niches, that is what they are called in the marketeer parlance. (I included the selling information above as a bonus. Thanks for playing)