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@Apolinus reviews...
Black as Midnight
TL;DR: Excellent. Top 5% of arcs in the game. Five stars.
Introduction and General Comments
The level range for this arc is listed as 22-27 according to @SupaFreak, so I brought my level 24 Warshade, Shadowjackal. He's a minor toon of mine - I play him for fun, so he's primarily slotted with SOs and I haven't paid tremendous amounts of attention to his build. It's tough to get a low level MA team together these days, so I soloed this one. I ran it on +1 x 0 difficulty.
I did not read any of the other reviews of the arc before typing my own so as not to bias myself - so if my comments echo those of another review, @SupaFreak can rest assured that's an independent confirmation of the other reviewer's idea. As a result, I may ask some questions that @SupaFreak has already answered somewhere - I don't necessarily expect a response to any redundant questions I may have asked (or any questions I've asked, period.) Everything here is for SupaFreak's benefit.
I like the contact, Xeronyx, because he's distinctive enough to be interesting - the shades + mask effect (not sure if this is actually shades + mask or a trick to suggest a glasses shape that doesn't exist in the character editor) makes him unique, and his wardrobe contributes to and helps to anchor the atmosphere of the arc - which is a tough thing to do because you keep popping into this AE building that isn't involved in the story at all. (My point: @SupaFreak does a good job trying to overcome the narrative-shredding effect of being pulled into the AE building again and again, and uses Xeronyx to weave as immersive a story as one can using the AE system.)
The hard work and attention to detail put into this arc are evident from the first click. The mission objectives are all color coded. The maps for mission one (and each subsequent mission) appear to have been hand-picked - carefully chosen for their specific layout, and it seems @SupaFreak has even gone to the effort to choose maps that will reliably spawn mission elements in the same place so that he can have a predictable gameplay experience. (In one mission, you are told that sounds are coming from somewhere "ahead and to the left" - very nice.
There are also lots of custom enemies with appearances that correspond roughly to the challenge they present - and plenty of custom allies and cleverly scripted events (exploitation of "rescue" mechanics to make nearby characters say lines of dialog at story-relevant points in time during the mission).
He also makes extensive use of clues to provide regular missions summaries so that the player does not get lost in the arc and so that players who are not the team leader can try to keep up with the story.
Mission One
Right from the get-go, @SupaFreak starts weaving a unique story. He's got named characters who are referenced by the contact as if they are known personally to him and have their own traits - being referred to as the "less experienced" heroes. I really liked the idea of being called in to rescue these neophytes who may have gotten in over their heads. He also tries hard to give each character his or her own voice.
I was very impressed with the game mechanics exploited to create mission target waypoints on the map - Ravessence essentially escorts the player to Deadfall's location in a refreshing reversal of the intended use of the game mechanic.
I liked the allied spirits floating around - they looked cool.
Mission one closed with a boss battle against Phantom Strike. He was not maddeningly difficult, and it was a fun fight. He was very believable as a Tsoo boss.
He and Shadowjackal traded blows.
And Shadowjackal learned important lessons about not letting your foe get behind you...
Before Shadowjackal put Phantom Strike down for the count and finished the mission.
Mission One: Constructive Criticism
1. Minor concern:
The text, "Xeronyx joins his teammates in what appears to be their combined magic and failing tech efforts to track or combat something unseen," was confusing to me. I went in and then read the clues and it made more sense - my impression now is that Xeronyx and his crew are engaged in some sort of continuous struggle in this graveyard, and that you keep returning to their position to interact with them while they're fending off whatever unseen forces are there.
I may just be dense, but it took me a while to put that together.
Then more questions come to mind:
- Why is this fight going on? Who are they fighting? Why are the attackers motivated to come after them? I can take guesses, but that story isn't really gone into much throughout the rest of the arc - my character gets engrossed in his own endeavors.
- From a story construction perspective, what is the narrative purpose of having the team engaged in battle in the graveyard?
- Why do they have time to stand/sit/lay around and chat with me if they're under constant siege?
Perhaps some of these will be answered in sequel arcs.
2. Possible minor correction:
"Xeronyx's cell phone makes what seems to be a 'powering on' signal."
Very nitpicky issue here. 'Signal' reads kind of funny in this line. Made me stop and spend a few seconds thinking about whether that word fits. You 'get signal' with your cell phone. Cell phones could be said to 'send and receive' signals'.
Devices can make audible tones which people could refer to as a 'signal'.
But the more common usage here (that would keep me from thinking about this for five minutes) would be 'sound'. This would avoid confusion with all of the other meanings of the word 'signal'.
"Xeronyx's cell phone makes what seems to be a 'powering on' sound."
Wouldn't have thought twice if I had seen that. Did think twice when I saw 'signal'.
Mission Two
Can't say enough good things about the map entrance for mission two, which I am confident @SupaFreak chose on purpose. Created just the right ambiance for the mission - I was impressed. No screen shot or detailed description because I want players to experience that nice suprise for themselves.
Brother Dayless got nailed by a low level minion (a Death Mass) early on while I was concentrating on other mobs, so I ran most of the mission alone. I do like Dayless' dialect though - though it's not entirely clear to me (even after reading his description) as to why he's from the 1920s. Does the entire arc take place in the 20s? Is he a time traveler? Am I a time traveler?
Maybe this will be answered in a sequel arc.
The ambush after Tormas got me, but I came back from the hospital and went straight to the final mission objective with no problems (and no sign of that ambush).
Mission Two: Constructive Criticism
1. Possible minor correction:
"You have the tenacity to call me a liar" - Tenacity might be better rendered as 'audacity' or 'temerity'. If you're interested, check the definitions of all three words to see what I mean.
2. Possible minor correction:
"Midnight....
Oh, let me give him the old Broderick, X."
For consistent formatting, there probably needs to be another space between those lines.
3. Story related question:
If Black Maverick died of a stroke as Xeronyx seems to believe, and if Xeronyx is in charge of the investigation (as he seems to be), why are we investigating Black Maverick's death in this manner? Isn't this more of a medical, rather than supernatural question? Sounds to me like this problem calls for an autopsy, not the Midnight Squad.
Perhaps Xeronyx noticed something else unusual about the circumstances of Maverick's death, but if he did it's not mentioned that I saw. Sounds to me like Black Maverick was in a graveyard (not an unusual place for someone in the Midnight Squad to be) and dropped dead of a stroke. It happens. Why are we here?
Mission Three
There are some very nice suprises here, and some very aesthetically pleasing elements. This mission was short, but almost cinematic in its appearance.
The natural light effects combine very nicely with the mobs in this mission.
Mission Three: Constructive Criticism
1. General comment:
Ravenessence says "hon" a lot. I think it would be possible to give her a unique voice using more than just one or two words - her manner of speech begins to grate on my nerves by the time mission three rolls around. Couldn't imagine having her as a contact for a whole arc unless I got to fight her at the end.
2. Mob navigation error(?):
The spectral servants got stuck in the doorway. I have no idea how you would go about fixing this or if you would even want to - the text within the mission suggests to me @SupaFreak might be aware of the problem and might have incorporated it into the story of the mission. Very well.
Mission Four
Not much to say here. Solid gameplay experience, but little to comment on that I haven't said already or won't say below. Very nice custom mobs - it's clear a lot of effort went into choosing them. Everything has a description of some sort or another, which is nice.
Mission Four: Constructive Criticism
1. Gameplay:
I had a Shadowcaster and Disciple of the Mind pretty near camping the entrance door. Combination of psi damage, mez, and heals made this a very frustrating gameplay experience. I eventually managed to take them down, but not until I got held and murdered a few times and had a couple of frustrating near-wins until one of them healed the other or itself (not sure which).
2. Minor clue text issue:
Plural of Shaman is "Shamans" (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/shaman).
Mission Five
The handy warning and the inspirtation tips in the mission five intro were appreciated - and are definitely appropriate. The fog inside the mission creates a very spooky feeling - especially with the glow of shadowmancers in the distance.
I knew I had problems though when Shadowjackal faceplanted three times on a lone Mastermind powerset mob in the beginning of the stage.
I got sufficiently frustrated that I phase-shifted to squid form and ghosted the map to find the final boss. Travelling around, I found that the mobs were equipped with hold/mez (I think) effects that locked me up quite a few times - and any fights I got engaged in were frustrating due to the extensive use of Dark Powers, which make it pretty hard to hit anything.
I eventually found the final boss, fought him, and died.
So I ghosted to him again, fought him, and died.
So then I developed a strategy, ghosted to him, fought him, and died.
Just didn't have the damage output to overcome his regeneration and other abilities. So I logged onto my main, transferred some inf around, flew to the Black Market, and gleemailed some inf and recipes over to Shadowjackal.
Then Shadowjackal crafted every temporary power in the game except the crappy common attack ones.
(If this image had a sound to go with it, that sound would be insane, maniacal laughter.)
Then I had him go to Wentworth's and buy a bunch of large insps. Four purples, two blues, a green, two reds, and I had a small purple on hand.
Blew the small purple on the way back to the final boss (got held in the cavern).
Final battle was epic. I summoned a PPD ally, buffed up like crazy, and charged in there like Gandalf at Helm's Deep. (I think it was Helm's deep, anyway).
The final boss didn't stand a chance. Stomp stomp stomp with all of my temporary powers and such. Very gratifying after earlier frustrations.
Conclusion
This is an extremely well crafted arc with tremendous attention to detail. The color coding, the architect's knowledge of the maps, and the clever usage of architect mechanics makes this a tremendously entertaining arc to experience, generally.
The strongest negative feelings I had about the arc came in the later levels, when it became significantly less solo-friendly. One could argue in the new AE climate of today that solo-friendliness is (sadly) pretty integral to player-friendliness.
In later levels, I kept flashing back to Kidou's "Guide to Making a Balanced Enemy Group" thread. I felt as though there were a lot of holds, mezzes, and -tohit powers flying around on minions, and eventually this drove me to just ghost to the objectives in the later missions, because each fight was a slog to get through if I could make it at all. I was reminded of the suggestion to substitue "Dark" powersets for something else like "Fire" in order to minimize player rage.
This could have to do with me using a Kheld I rarely usely to solo the mission.
This could have to do with me having the difficulty set at +1.
I recognize that mission difficulty is a philosophical consideration up to each author - but the frustrating experience I had in the later levels of this arc made me think about going back and altering my own arc a bit. I don't have any holds and not much -ToHit in my arc, but I have a few "challenging" ambush spawns that were fun to make and made me feel good when I made them... but which may just not be right for the player experience.
I also kept having questions. Some of them are listed above. Another question that kept coming to mind was: Who are these benevolent spirits? Where are they coming from? What are they doing here? What is their purpose? Perhaps this will be explored in future content. If so, nice tease.
I look forward to seeing more from @SupaFreak - and I believe some of his innovative approaches to mission design may become the standard for the construction of quality missions. I may try to apply some of what I've learned from playing his arc in my own mission design.
Ultimately, summing together the entire experience: The detailed narrative, the high-quality color-coded objectives, the intricate and clear description of the storyline through the use of clues, the clever use of game mechanics, and the detailed cahracters and costume designs, I believe this arc to be among the best 5% in the AE system. It is clear that a tremendous amount of hard work and storytelling elbow grease went into the contruction of this arc. Therefore, I give it a rating of Five Stars. -
Alignment: Villain (Rogue so he can access blue side on a low pop server - but for all in game intents and purposes, villain.)
Powersets: Demon Summoning / Dark Miasma
Global: @Apolinus
Server: Protector
Background:
Every civilization that has every existed has its tale of the end - the stories they tell about when their world and everything they know will pass into darkness. Each culture gives shape to its fears in a different way, but all tales touch on the universal concept of oblivion - a simple and elemental idea seemingly common to the collective unconscious of all beings.
Few nations can trace the moment they began to fall. Few realities can identify the moment they began to crumble.
Apolinus is a bleak wanderer - the herald of the oblivion, whose presence in a world numbers its days. He often arrives during a cataclysm in a weakened form - many times unaware even of his own destiny - and his structure evolves as his power grows. His form in each incarnation is different, mirroring the dreams and fears of the inhabitants of the doomed reality.
Eventually, feeding on the inhabitants of the world he occupies like a twisted parasite, he grows powerful enough to tear a hole through to a dimension of empty darkness - an eternal void that consumes all it touches and leaves not even a memory behind. The destruction is so violent that he is stripped of his essence and hurled through the multiverse to land in some new and vulnerable dimension, beginning the cycle anew.
(The arc "Nothing to Worry About", listed in my signature, relates this story and afford the player an opportunity to stop Apolinus before he consumes Primal Earth.) -
While I am grateful for the relatively rapid attention to this problem, I am concerned by your request to ask people to post words they are still having a problem with.
If your goal is to make absolutely certain that this customer service issue is taken care of and these people are satisfied, so be it.
However, I want to clarify that changing only or primarily the words that are posted in this thread is not an acceptable solution because it does not resolve issues with potential future uses of common words that people may just happen to not post in this thread.
If you must leave the filter in, someone needs to comb through the new filter word by word and excise every single world that has common uses and alternative meanings - like colossus, cyclops, beast, etc.
Otherwise, people will get frustratingly stupid errors in the future when they attempt to design arcs. The obvious absurdity of these errors will be reflective of the effort put into the player experience, and these feelings of frustration will eventually erode your player base. Maybe not by much, but enough raindrops creates a flood.
If you don't have the time or resources to comb through the filter..
Then please upload the list somewhere and we'll comb through it for you and send you a list of the words that need to be fixed.
Frankly, being secretive confers no benefit here. I would also publish the finalized filter once it's done so the MA community knows what we're dealing with and we don't go trying to make arcs involving characters with whatever words are declared taboo. -
How about trying to concentrate on a manageable list of (seemingly) minimal effort fixes that require a one time investment of effort and would yield tremendous improvements in the quality of the system, thereby attracting more players?
Such a list would be largely automatable solutions that once implemented would increase incentives for both players and mission architects and would be sustainable in the long term with minimal maintenance over what is already being done.
Ideally, that thread would include links to a list of rednames who could be contacted and encouraged to read it in the hopes that a few of them might pick it up as a side project one month, bang out a few of those fixes, and see if it revitalizes the system.
In a perfect world, those who believed in the utility of those suggestions would participate in creating a groundswell of encouragement directing NCSoft (and by extension, the devs) to attend to the requested fixes in a timely fashion.
....That's the best solution I've been able to think of. Frankly, given the current level of success (not a whisper from the devs and a lot of understandable skepticism from a jaded AE community), I don't think it deserves a cookie...
...but I'm open to hearing a better solution.
What I'm not ready to do quite yet is throw my hands up and go run another iTrial. -
I have sent notices to all the rednames listed at the end of my post and have tweeted to Positron.
No response from on high so far.
[Note: I have had discussions with customer service/GMs - as I've noted in the "Copyright/Profane Question" thread. Aeon has also posted in that thread, indicating that the filter problem is being worked on.
However, no developer has thus far acknowledged that this thread exists.] -
Quote:Awesome - thank you very much.Yep, my queue is still open! In fact, the stipulation that there are six "slots" total in each round is kind of a fiction at this point - it's a leftover from the original Pro Payne thread when AE was active enough that I had so many requests that I had to put a practical limit on the number of arcs in my queue or it would be dozens of arcs long. These days I try to do one every other week, and I'm actually doing good to get a request every other week, so I rarely have more than one arc lined up.
-
I'll throw my hat in the ring, if you're still taking entries. Just getting the hang of this MA thing, so I need some quality feedback - looks like you're good at that.
Arc Name: Nothing to Worry About [SFMA][HLMA][CFMA][HGMA]
Arc ID: 500325
Faction: Custom
Level: 40-Max (higher is better)
Creator Global/Forum Name: @Apolinus
Difficulty Level: Moderate to high. Soloable.
Synopsis:
The Freedom Phalanx needs your help investigating a meteor strike in Atlas Park. Your investigation turns up a lot more than anyone bargained for, and soon the entire dimension of primal earth is at stake.
Estimated Time to Play: <1 hour (4 missions) -
Went back looking for the most recent person to follow the thread rules.
First choice: Krusaders Adventures by Todogut. Arc ID 475115. Tried to get started - got an MADoorInvalid error.
Second Choice:
Title: SuperJuice
Author: @FlamingFlea
Arc ID: 433692
Keywords: Solo Friendly, Canon Related
Length: Long (3 missions)
First Published: 7/26/2010 3:13 PM
Morality: Hero
Enemy Groups: Hellions
Description: Hoping to capitalize on the defenselessness a mere mortal can feel in this super powered city, Crey has developed a serum which the company promises will endow anyone with a variety of super powers, but when they send a gang ridden area samples of the serum, side effects may occur. [LBMA]
Constructive Criticism
Introduction:
The arc description should say "side effects may occur" (I've corrected it above), but in-game it says "side effect may occur".
I ran this arc with a level 14 illusion/radiation controller and my difficulty set to +0 x0. I also had a level 50 PB (exemped down) (@AIB) and a level 12 scrapper on the team.
Here's a photo oof myself and the PB (@AIB) hanging out with good ol' Fred. Our scrapper crashed and didn't get to be in the photo.
Mission 1:
Mission requirements were to find Fred, recover the superjuice, and save some hostages.
Positive Feedback: I like the feel of this arc. Flea has done some work to put some snappy colors into the text, the title "Side Effects May Occur" is nice, I like the name 'Butane', and I like the fact that I've been asked to attend a meeting of the local neighborhood watch. Little subtle touches like this set this arc apart from the stereotypical and transparent, "There's a problem and we need you to solve it!" arcs.
There are also little points of humor throughout the arc - the mission entry text in the first mission is an example.
Fred McNeil is credible as a neighborhood watch member who has taken super serum, and had a nicely written personality.
Negative Feedback:
Fred McNeil's description is incomplete - it ends halfway through the word 'years'.
Why are the hellions having a boombox party as they're trying to raid the neighborhood watch for superjuice? Seems like they'd want to get the serum and get out - as humorous as a boombox party might be.
Mission 2:
Objectives are to defeat Butane's lackey and get the superjuice.
Positive Feedback:
Again, I really like little touches.. Butane's lacky makes a humorous comment as I find him, and his cell phone is comedy gold.
Flea finds a clever way to create a back-and-forth dialog in the lead in to mission text, using the accept mission dialog as an opportunity for your character to elicit a response from Fred. It works, and it creates a good dialog in this mission.
Negative Feedback:
In the contact response, there is a typo. 'You're' should be 'your'... as in 'Don't your other contacts ever come with you?'
Return text:
"I was just overcome power" should be something else. Wasn't sure what was supposed to be here: "I was just overcome with power"?
"My powers are gone, but I won't be picking any more fights" looks weird. Should 'but' be 'and' instead? Or should it be, "but I won't avoid picking more fights if I need to?" Not sure.
Mission 3:
Positive Feedback:
Well chosen map - condemned building look was nice and appropriate. Quite suitable for hellions, and made a good environment.
Negative Feedback:
The demolition angle was just an obvious and thinly veiled excuse to put in a mission timer - there is no reason why Butane would wait around until the moment the building is demolished to pack up and leave - and the timer didn't make the mission a challenge at all, as we finished with something like 25 minutes remaining on the timer. This might be more of a flaw of timed missions than of this mission in particular, but there you have it. I think the timer in this level should be done away with, along with talk of the demolition - it's unnecessary here.
A custom skin for Butane would have been nice. He's just another Hellion.
Conclusions/General Impressions/Final Suggestions:
I wish I had more constructive criticism to offer, but to be frank the Arc was great. Really well written, clever humor (but not overdone), and just the right length.
I'd do away with the dancing hellions in the first mission and the timer in the last mission.
I'd think about a custom skin for Butane.
The only other criticism I have to offer is that it was just hellions all the way through - including Butane. It would have been nice to see one or two custom mobs besides Fred here or there - for example, Butane and his lackey.
Four stars. (Better than 80% of the arcs out there.) Nice work.
I would like to submit the following arc for review by the next poster:
Arc Name: Nothing to Worry About [SFMA][HLMA][CFMA][HGMA]
Arc ID: 500325
Faction: Custom
Creator Global/Forum Name: @Apolinus
Difficulty Level: Moderate to high. Soloable.
Synopsis:
The Freedom Phalanx needs your help investigating a meteor strike in Atlas Park. Your investigation turns up a lot more than anyone bargained for, and soon the entire dimension of primal earth is at stake.
Estimated Time to Play: <1 hour (4 missions) -
Alright - in the last couple of pages the structure of this thread has broken down.
That doesn't matter much, since the last post was... last year.
But let's see if I can engage in a little thread necromancy and bring this baby back to life.
Here's a template:
BEGIN TEMPLATE
----------
I am reviewing the following arc:
Title:
Author Global:
Arc ID:
Keywords:
Length:
First Published:
Morality:
Enemy Groups:
Estimated time required:
Description:
Constructive Criticism
Missions 1:
Positive Feedback:
Negative Feedback:
Mission 2:
Positive Feedback:
Negative Feedback:
Mission 3:
Positive Feedback:
Negative Feedback:
Mission 4:
Positive Feedback:
Negative Feedback:
Conclusions/General Impressions/Final Suggestions:
I would like to submit the following arc for review by the next poster:
Title:
Author Global:
Arc ID:
Keywords:
Length:
First Published:
Morality:
Enemy Groups:
Estimated time required:
Description:
----
END TEMPLATE
Let's review for clarity's sake:
If you post in this thread, you should:
1. Review someone else's arc in that post.
AND (note: AND, not OR)
2. Post an arc of your own to be reviewed.
These two things should happen in the same post.
FAQ:
What if I've already posted reviews in this thread, but didn't ask for my arc to be reviewed?
Doesn't matter. A review and a request need to happen in the same post. You should review the arc posted right before your post, and the person right after you should review your arc. We're not going to sit here and dig back through the last ten pages of the thread to see whether you pulled your weight or not. We're just going to skip you and review someone who can follow rules.
What if I post an arc without posting a review in the same post?
I can't speak for anyone else, but I'm going to skip back until I can find someone who knows the rules. If you can't follow the basic rules of the thread, I have low hopes for your ability to craft or review arcs.
What if I just want to review someone else's arc without posting one of my own?
That's not what we're doing here. Go to a different thread and review someone else's arc, or start an arc review thread up.
What if I don't want to review an arc?
Then don't ask anyone to review one of yours.
Aren't you technically breaking the rules by making this post without posting an arc review and an arc to be reviewed?
Yes. I'm a hypocrite. Good for you.
Everything I said is still true. -
Quote:Thanks, Bubbawheat! Added a link to the post up top.Oh yeah, I saw someone mentioned this in the thread wondering why no one had made a post similar to this before. They have.
-
Alright.. I promise.. promise I'm not trying to make you grind your teeth on purpose. And I continue to appreciate your time.
Got a couple of questions though.
Quote:There was a tag they added to their arc descriptions, so they'd know which arcs they should be 5-starring.
Now, I suppose all they'd have to do is move the five star club to an off-site message board and post the arc names there...
Quote:Some even went above and beyond, sending copy/paste "I 5-starred yours, please 5-star mine" messages to other authors. I speak from personal experience here; my husband and I got the exact same "feedback" on our arcs, from a well-known badge hunter.
I could see a properly functioning reporting system reducing the population of badgers to,
1. People who are dedicated enough to work out some sort of off-site message board.
2. Groups that only coordinate amongst themselves, as it would be too risky to go ask random players for help due to the reporting function.
The question I have is, would this reduce the number of badgers/5-star clubbers to a small enough population size to be inconsequential. (The same reason the "merits for reporting" might not work - not enough violators to worry about.)
Quote:It's been done. Over and over again. Suggestions have been made. They've all been ignored by anyone who could actually do anything about it. Now, I understand where you're coming from, because I was once coming from the same place; maybe if I hit this wall with my head hard enough, it might break. But after having been at it for two years, and having made nary a crack, most of us have a splitting headache and are pretty much ready to say "you know what? We ain't breaking down this wall."
Why would the rednames conspire to neglect a feature so aggressively? At some point, it becomes more work to ignore than it is to just implement a few fixes.
Especially when, once those fixes are implemented, the system remains hands-off (or becomes more hands-off than it already was).
Quote:Now of course the "I want rewards" and the "I like the story" playstyles aren't mutually exclusive, as I was once wont to point out in obnoxiously colored capital letters,
If architect worked the way it ought to work, more people would participate.
I know sites that work using premises similar to those I've described. They have their flaws - their five star mafias and their popular players - people who get voted 5 stars just because of their name, rather than the quality of the content.
But you know what? Thousands and thousands of people use that system daily. They play the content. They rate the content. They consume the stories. They communicate.
I'm not trying to create a system that is free of problems - any system will have flaws.
I'm trying to encourage the devs to return MA to being something fun for the majority of players - something worth maintaining and adding features to.
Right now, it's something broken, neglected, and largely unplayed. That thread Venture directed me to was essentially all the people whose opinions I've come to respect the most while lurking expressing the desire to abandon MA.
Something needs to change.
I'm not saying my proposed solutions are ideal. I'm saying they're better than where we are now.
Farm flagging will allow those people who want farms to go pursue their farms, and it will remove those farms from eligibility for consideration on Player's Choice and HoF.
Incentives will motivate some players and some architects who otherwise wouldn't to participate in the system - and among those, there will be good players and good architects who will discover or re-discover the system.
You and I may disagree on the solutions - but I think we have similar goals.
And I don't think it can hurt to scream at the rednames one last time.
The only other alternative is to give up - which I see some of you have, as you're planning to let your subscriptions lapse.
All I'm asking is that you spend the final few weeks or months giving them hell.
Quote:I can't speak for everyone here, but what's my target audience, as far as the "casual player" goes? For one, the guy who's sick of all things Praetorian. Or the guy who is two bars from level 45, and doesn't want to open up another contact. Or the guy who hits level 30 for the 30th time and realizes he's done all the level 30-35 arcs 30 times and wants to play something new. Or the guy who wants something fun to do when he gets the day off work and none of his friends are online. Or the guy who is disappointed with the direction the dev-created arcs are taking and wants an alternative. These hypothetical guys, they're awesome, because they're not obsessed with getting the new shinies first, or being the most uber on their server, they just want to do something fun, and make some character progress while they're at it. These are they guys we need to "convert," and you do that by making it fun. As for the "I don't care what I do as long as I get the best rewards" guys? They. Want. Farms. -
Quote:Agreed. That's why I've written an open letter to the Devs in the first post of this thread and listed potential solutions to the problems the community has identified.I'm flashing back to this thread.
One of its conclusions: the devs broke it, the devs have to fix it. The community has already gone above and beyond on this. -
Quote:I understand the dynamic you're trying to point out - my response is that it's that very dynamic that is AE's fatal flaw.Ok....I don't generally judge people by their join date, but in this case it is relevant. It means that, unless this is a second account, you missed the ratings griefing and "5-star cartels" that directly resulted from badges being awarded for having other people positively rate your arc. Those badges were removed for a reason. They didn't incetivize creating quality content that people genuinely wanted to play, they incentivized convincing people to pretend they liked whatever crap you put up there. Did a few people actually make an effort to create something others would enjoy, listen to feedback, and make tweaks to try to actually earn those badges? Yes. Did other people make binds along the lines of "Great arc! 5 stars! Try out mine, ID #XXXXX, if you'd like to return the favor?" Hell yeah. Badgers want badges, and many of them don't care how they get them.
The first step is identifying the problem.
Now, either we come up with a way to fix it, or it's doomed to be neglected by the Devs.
The Devs absolutely have to implement the solution - but it would be nice if we could think up a functional suggestion for them. We've got a lot of brain power we can reach out to here, so it's worth considering.
You don't think a system for reporting the five star cartels would work at all? (Perhaps you can enlighten me as to the history of such attempts?
Quote:Because "good players" don't need a reward for doing the right thing. If you tie a reward to it, you first need someone to do the wrong thing in order to reward someone for doing the right thing.
I can see your point there - perhaps rewards for reporting aren't sensible.
Quote:"We" can't. We've tried. If by "we" you mean "the devs," stop breaking things would be a good start.
The Devs respond to our needs, inasmuch as our needs dictate their profits.
Things are already broken - so we need to identify those things, recommend fixes, and ask loudly enough that it's made a priority. That was my goal with this thread -to do something productive with my time rather than complain.
I don't doubt that it's been tried before - but I think this is our last shot, if it's not too late already.
The key to drawing their Devs' attention is making the Mission Architect a viable option for a large section of the playerbase again. We're talking 40% or more playing MA when they log on.
That's a tall order.
I'm trying to figure out how to get that done.
The Devs have pretty strong motivation to implement a working MA system if we can convince them of it - limitless free content is a pretty sweet deal from their point of view.
We just have to come up with workable solutions to the issues that don't require gobs of time and money.
Quote:Ongoing attention, even if it's something so minor as a dev's choice every few weeks, would be a third.
Any solution we come up with needs to be self-sustaining once it's implemented. Otherwise, it can be screwed up by neglect - and we're right back to bases.
Quote:New architects would get more plays on new arcs if the system wasn't a bloated mess of farms, "tests," abandoned arcs and utter dross.
Quote:If I'm looking for something to play, I can click "most recent" and "0 ratings" and start from the bottom and maybe, MAYBE around page 20 or so I'll find something that looks playable. Or I can come here and see that oh, Policewoman created a new arc, I'll try that one out.
Solutions?
Quote:If it's fun, they will come. There are arcs out there with plays in the double digits
Quote:Rewards aren't the be-all and end-all of gaming for some people.
Combine the grind-motivating rewards from an iTrial with the endless novely of MA and you have a recipe for success. We just have to figure out how to solve the problems and then sell those solutions to the Devs.
Quote:Even while you're waiting for an iTrial.
Quote:First, we have to direct the Devs' attention to AE. The people who love the feature and want it to succeed can't bring the casual users over. They've tried.
I can't think of a better alternative - and a fatalistic attitude strips me of any power to change the situation, so I'm not ready to go there yet. -
-
Eva,
First, thanks very much for reading my post and for responding. I was hoping some of the frequent posters in this forum would come and weigh in, and I'm grateful you've done so.
Quote:Absolutely agreed. That, and if this problem stands, it runs the risk of completely destroying any utility of AE - but since Aeon has already said a fix is being worked on, that does seem somewhat unlikely.Originally Posted by Eva DestructionThe tide of vitriol and rage is mostly, in my opinion, because this latest but is yet another straw on the proverbial pile, and it's taking way too long to be fixed for some people's tastes.
Quote:Emphatic NO. And again, NO. Mention "badge" and "incentive" in the same sentence and that changes to OH HELL NO. There should be no more badges tied to anything in the AE system. They will only be farmed. The devs tried to use badges to try to lure players into stuff they otherwise might not have wanted to do, and what happened? People who didn't want to do that stuff went out of their way to get their badges as fast as possible and never touched it again. NO BADGES.
I think we need to figure out a way to tie badges to achievements you can't "do as quickly as possible and never touch again".
Here's what I'd like to do:
I'd like to tie badges and rewards to well crafted arcs and appropriate behavior. If you craft an arc that a lot of people genuinely enjoy, even if you "do it as quickly as possible and never touch it again" who cares - you made a great arc. Or if you achieve goals that move architect system toward what you and I are thinking about when we envision the ideal AE (for example, by honestly reporting legitimately infringing content), I'd like to see a reward tied to that.
The trick is how to provide positive incentives without playing into the hands of players who are "faking it" and gaming the system.
How do we get the system to recognize when players are doing what they ought to do, and when they are just forming a "five star rating club" so their account can get the "Made a Good Arc" badge?
That's the core problem undermining architect right now - finding a way to reward legitimate players and crafters without motivating farmers and speed-badgers.
Quote:Never mind that incentive isn't really necessary. Reporting a problematic arc is very very easy.
Rather than treat every architect like a criminal, why not reward good players for doing the right thing? (If we can find a way to do it without having people exploit the reporting system to earn those carrots.)
Quote:Originally Posted by Eva DestructionWe have plenty of conscientious players in this game, the trick is to get them using the system so those arcs will be found, because if they are found you can bet they will be reported.
How do you propose we do that without some means of positive reinforcement?
Quote:And my last point: trademark infringement is way way down on the list of problems plaguing AE.
Quote:They already do. Or rather, did.
How do we bring in new people to breathe additional life (and quality content) into the architect system? What do you recommend?
Quote:"New shiny" arcs are often inferior to arcs that have sat around for a while and accumulated feedback.
A balance needs to be struck between encouraging playthroughs of well established content and encouraging playthroughs of new content.
Right now, the balance is weighted too heavily toward encouragement of playing established content - if I build a new arc and don't promote it, it's liable to sit there for months with no plays.
That's not a whine - I realize it's on me to promote it - but new Architects will feel more encouraged if they get more plays earlier on in their newly built arcs. And more architects building quality arcs is a good thing.
Quote:Anything that lets the players choose which arcs will give out rewards will only result in more thinly veiled farms being made Hall of Fame/Player's Choice/whatever you want to call it.
Did I not make that clear enough? *considers going back and editing...*
If my "farm button" is a bad idea, can you think of something better? I'm just trying to figure out some kind of solution, here.
Quote:Reward incentives must be removed from the equation entirely. Tickets are enough, for anyone who knows what to do with them. Add anything more, and people will only farm more.
More people using a feature = Life for that feature.
NCSoft is a great company that cares about their customers - but they don't see "quality storytelling experiences for their players" - they see $$. They will direct the devs' time based on those features being utilized by the largest number of players - which means we have to find a way to motivate people to use architect edition for its intended purpose.
That means incentivizing participation in the right way while not incentivizing going through the motions just to farm stuff.
Quote:If you need more in-game rewards to create arcs you probably shouldn't be creating arcs.
The way we avoid bringing in an influx of crappy storytellers is we only reward the telling of good stories. (Player's choice system + Farm button.)
Quote:But enough people have enough friends to get their crap arcs 5-starred. And everybody has the ability to create an "I 5-starred yours, now 5-star mine" bind.
Can't think of any other solution off the top of my head.
Quote:Minimal rewards keep people (more or less) honest.
Quote:Yes, it must be easy to find, play, and rate quality arcs, but anyone who doesn't already have a reason for doing so should just go back to farming iTrials, since that's ultimately what they really want to do.
Quote:TL;DR: Better rewards are not the solution to anything. Since most of your post focuses on improving rewards, I really have nothing more to respond to. -
Quote:Thanks, Bubbawheat. I see your point. I've changed the text to read 'delete or hide from searches' to reflect the full range of options available.Pretty nice writeup, I didn't read through the whole thing yet, but one thing I'd like to point out:
Replace "delete" with "hide from regular searches" and I'd be better with it. Just because someone hasn't played it, doesn't mean it's not valid. And you should always be able to play it by searching for its ID number. -
Mission Architect Reform and Nearly Limitless Potential for Added Value
Revised and Updated 06/02/2011
Time to revise and update this thread. The original post (for archival purposes) is on a later page in this thread: LINK
Introduction / Thesis Statement
Replay value is the lifeblood of an MMO.
“Grind” is one way to achieve replay value – but it leaves many players disenchanted, tends to drive people away, and reduces the diversity (read: appeal) of the player experience.
User generated contact, conversely, is a limitless well of replay value – both for those generating content and those playing it – and it is limitlessly diverse.
Thesis statement:
Quote:The Architect Entertainment community in CoX
* Is unique to the CoX experience.
* Represents nearly limitless potential for added value to the property through the constant generation of free high-quality content.
* Gives NCSoft a competitive edge in the marketplace.
* Is populated by an active, vital, interested, and growing community of users.
Just as it is (and should be) an important priority to Update Legacy Content and Zones, it is also critical to update and maintain legacy systems like AE.
There are a number of straightforward, low-maintenance fixes with minimal post-implementation time investment required that would greatly improve, expand, and revitalize the player experience.
We believe that Architect Edition is a worthy candidate for an update, and should be attended to in the next earliest possible content update.
How active is the AE community?
* We have built websites – that are still active and in use - dedicated to playing and reviewing arcs, like @El Furioso’s City of Heroes Mission Review
* We have players regularly producing video reviews and playthroughs of AE content and posting them to Youtube – thereby creating free, crowdsourced marketing for CoX properties on other websites. See Bubbawheat’s “On your M-Arc” Thread and Youtube Account.
* We have players and groups working on innovative ways to continue to improve the Mission Architect gameplay experience. See @SupaFreak’s Operation: Integration thread.
* We have player groups actively creating and promoting events, in some cases scheduling events that rotate between various servers and in other cases sponsoring contests for the generation of quality content. See @BackFire’s
Ænvasion thread and The American Legion’s Monthly AE Author Contest.
* Players continue to play, review, and promote other players’ arcs. See ArrowRose’s Excellent Arcs thread and GlaziusF’s CoHMR Aggregator thread.
* Since the inception of Mission Architect, AE players have generated a tremendous volume of content:
(Thanks to Dragon_Surge for pointing the image out to me and Kotaku for the original infographic.)
Not to knock anyone else – but I challenge you to find another community in the CoH environment that generates as much free content, free advertising, discussion about the game, and interaction among the players as Mission Architect.
Problems and Solutions
So what’s the problem?
As great as it is, the current level of activity in AE is only a fraction of what it could be and is representative of the tenacity, dedication, and frankly, patience of this valuable group of creative players.
A quote from respected MA community member and Player’s Choice winner, @PW (PoliceWoman):
Quote:Originally Posted by PoliceWomanToday, there are only a very few die-hards remaining in the "MA community" (if it can be called that). These people once loved MA, spent hundreds of hours playing arcs or working on them, and were ambassadors for the feature, trying to get more people involved in playing and authoring and using the wonderful tools that were given to us. Now these same people are mostly reduced to bitterly hurling angry invective at the devs for their thoughtless destruction of hundreds of hours of player effort. How can people who loved something so much, be turned so totally against it?
Quote:Originally Posted by BubbaWheatThe MA/AE community feels like a dying breed. Authors find it hard to get plays on new arcs. Five star arcs get downrated to four stars where they pretty much never get played again. It feels like the devs have abandoned it, handing out only 2-3 Dev Choice awards in a year, Hall of Fame is practically impossible to reach, the search engine for finding an arc is terrible, and the ratings system and sorting system just plain doesn't work the way its intended.
And the only time the AE gets any real attention is for the exploits. I'm sure everyone knows the term "monkey farm", but how many people know the term "Teen Phalanx Forever"? Even doing something to highlight the best arcs of the year has largely been ignored, when the year before it was a rousing success. Even the third Aeon Challenge, the last dev-supported event only created a single new Dev Choice arc, when the last two challenges created three. And those challenges have been the *only* source for new Dev Choice arcs recently. Where's the incentive?
What keeps you away from AE arcs?
Hall of Fame Requirements Need Revisiting
Copyright/Profane Question
Bubbawheat's Mission Architect Issues List
Mission Architect Feature Suggestions
Looking (very-unscientifically) through the player responses to the first four pages of Bubbawheat’s thread:
What keeps you away from AE arcs?
I see the following (Complaint - Number of times it’s mentioned in pages 1 – 4)
Poorly written/poorly designed arcs – 20
Search function is difficult to use effectively – tough to sort wheat from chaff. 20
Too many farms/exploits/exploiters – 14
MA rewards are inferior (No shards, No threads, Lower XP, No Purples, etc.) – 14
Arc Rating System is Flawed – 11
Architect is a “game within a game” – 5
Developer content outcompetes MA content – 4
Patches/filters kill arcs – 4
Author interface is poorly designed - 4
Too many dead arcs – 3
Nothing is wrong! – 1
No incentive to write arcs – 1
The whole system is poorly implemented – 1
Of these 101 complaints, fully 68% could be fixed by changes to the arc search and review system – add reasonable incentives for properly reviewing arcs, and you could fix over 80% of player complaints.
Search and Review, Arc Recognition, and Ratings Systems Fixes
We need to fix the system we use to recognize architect achievement and make it easier for players to find good arcs.
I propose the following measures to help players sort good arcs from the ‘dross’:
I. Farm Flagging
90% Automatable – Minimal Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
When architects create an arc or when players rate an arc, there should be a radio button that they can click to indicate the arc is a farm. If a given arc accumulates over 50 unique “farm” votes, or if the mission architect flags the arc as a farm, the arc is flagged “farm”.
Farms should be hidden from the MA interface unless a player specifies they are searching for Farms by clicking a toggle in the search window. Farms should also not be eligible for "Hall of Fame" or "Player's Choice" awards.
Players who wish to farm could still search for farms simply by clicking an “include farms” radio button. If you really want to cater to the Farming community, you could create a “Farmer’s Choice” award available only to arcs flagged as “Farm”.
Letting Farmers search for Farms and hide story arcs would stop quality story-driven arcs from getting voted down just for not being farms.
Alternately, farms could just be deleted outright by the automated system.
Paragon Staff Post-Implementation Involvement: Enforcement:
Misusing Farm Flagging to grief legitimate non-farm arcs should be an offense like griefing or obscenity that is a bannable / MA privs revocation sort of offense.
II. Remove Arc Clutter (Thanks to Sister_Twelve for the core idea for this point):
100% Automatable – No Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
The system should automatically delete or hide from searches any arcs that have 0 plays in the last 90 days.
The system should automatically delete or hide from searches any arcs that have an average rating of below 2.0 over a 90 day span.
The ‘Work in Progress’ distinction should be removed. If an arc is a “Work in Progress”, it should be local – not published. All ‘Work in Progress’ arcs should be hidden from the search at a minimum and possibly deleted.
The only arcs visible should be “Looking for Feedback” (which should be a tool authors can use to get opinions from friends/forum members and should be open to comments, but should have no star ratings attached) and “Final”.
III. Revise the Ratings System
100% Automatable – No Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
When an author clicks the “Final” button, this begins a period of time governed by an automatic counter (a week? Two weeks? A month?) during which that arc is “Under Judgment”.
The star system remains in place, but actually feeds into a behind-the-scenes “thumbs up” or “thumbs down” binary vote system.
1 or 2 stars = “Thumbs Down”. 3, 4, or 5 stars = “Thumbs Up”. This should fix some of the bias inherent to the “star ratings average” approach.
If, by the end of the judgment period, an arc has more “Thumbs Up” ratings than “Thumbs Down” ratings, that arc retains its Final status and (provided it isn’t flagged as a farm) becomes eligible for “Player’s Choice” and “Dev’s Choice”.
If, by the end of the judgement period, more people have rated the arc 1 or 2 stars than have rated it 3, 4, or 5 stars, then that arc is returned to its “Looking for Feedback” – still published (with all previous votes removed), but hidden from people who are searching specifically for “Final” arcs. Players can try again to submit the arc as “Final” at a later point in time (Two weeks? A month?).
This will automatically sort a great deal of the good arcs from the ‘dross’.
IV. Reward for accurately rating quality content
90% Automatable – Minimal Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
For a ratings system to work, you need players to play and rate arcs with the genuine intent of rating accurately. It makes sense that to do this, we need to incentivize playing and rating accurately (not just rating some random number of stars for the sake of pulling down incentives.)
Provide players with a reward if they give 4 or 5 stars during the “Under Judgement” period to an arc that goes on to become a Player’s Choice or Dev’s Choice arc (see below for details on Player’s Choice and Dev’s Choice). (An ‘Architect Rater’ merit, for example, that may be exchanged for a reward table roll. Or a number of tickets. Or a badge. Or some combination of the above.) This reward should be competitive with rewards achievable outside of the architect system. Meaning it should include the possibility of purples and incarnate salvage (shards and/or threads and/or components).
Personally, I favor a system like the Architect Ticket system, where the player can choose between either an IO reward table (including purples) or an Incarnate Component Reward table such as they would see after a Lambda or BAF (with sufficient participation). Players lower than fifty could be forced to go with the IO option, players 50+ could have the Incarnate options.
Because the frequency of arcs achieving player’s choice or Dev’s choice will be low, Architect Rater merits would be exceedingly rare, so this will not unbalance the system or draw an inordinate number of players away from trials. What it will do is incentivize players to go over to the RWZ AE in between trials and run a mission or two to get a shot at that occasional very rare incarnate reward roll.
The “Judgement System” period would encourage the playing of new arcs over older, more well established arcs – thus giving exposure to new content while simultaneously filtering out the junk.
Additionally, Consider increasing the value of the vote for players who consistently rate content accurately. For example, if I consistently rate content that ends up being removed from the system (1 or 2 stars on average during the judgment period) with 1 or 2 stars, or if I consistently rate content that is selected for Monthly Player’s Choice at 4 or 5 stars, then my vote should count for more or less, respectively.
[My vote] = 1 + (.025 * Number of 4-5 star Monthly Player’s choice rates + .025 * Number of 1 – 2 star ratings of arcs eventually purged from the system after 90 days).
Paragon Staff Post-Implementation Involvement: Enforcement:
Starting "5 star clubs" and "You rate me 5 I'll rate you 5" agreements should be a reportable offense just like griefing or obscenity - and should result in loss of MA privileges at a minimum.
IV. Develop a Recommendation System / Random Task Button
100% Automatable – No Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
We also need to develop an automated recommendation engine that will recommend arcs to players, based either on their expressed interests, arcs they’ve played in the past, or on a set of under the hood metrics. The recommendations from this engine would replace the current front page of the search (which showcases guest arcs and dev’s choice arcs that already have thousands of plays) and would encourage players to play new content that interests them. It would not exclusively recommend arcs that already have high ratings or lots of plays – players can search for those on their own. Rather, it would recommend arcs that may have great content but which need more exposure to really take off. Or, it could recommend arcs that players whose votes are weighted heavily have approved of.
For example, it could recommend the most played arcs with under 300 total plays over the last 10 hours (or something similar).
Another idea, proposed by @SupaFreak, would be to create an incentivized "random task" button. Players may accept one random MA task every 20 hours, and a special reward could be tied to accepting that task. Doing so would then drop them into an arc with "Final" status. (See SupaFreak's post below for more detail.)
You could combine these two ideas by providing incentives for players who play recommended arcs.
I know this system can’t be especially hard to implement, as CoHMR has one – “Looking for a mission? How about…”. If a CoH fan site can do it, I have faith that the devs can.
More generally speaking, arc conclusion dialog reward tables could be varied to incentivize a diversity of behaviors without encouraging architects to create farm missions:
• Provide a reward table granting one rare IO enhancement or X threads or INF for every unique play-through of an arc during the “Under Judgement” period. Odds of getting a better reward could improve with increasing length or complexity of the arc, incentivizing players to seek out more intricate arcs and incentivizing architects to put more thought into their work.
• Provide a reward table granting 10 (-1*number of replays) threads for every replay of an existing arc within a 1 week time period.
• Provide a “notice-of-the-well” style special reward for playing certain categories of arcs on a rotating basis (like the Weekly TF, except for MA arcs). This suggestion is employed above as a means to incentivize the monthly “Player’s Choice” arc. This could just rotate automatically.
• Advertise these benefits and the monthly Player’s Choice arc (see below) aggressively.
The more players play and rate unique content, the more rewards they reap. It’s not tied to the number of baddies they kill, so this reduces the incentive for building farms. The more powerful the positive reinforcement, the more likely players are to participate.
V. Revise Dev’s Choice, Hall of Fame, and other means of Special Recognition
100% Automatable – No Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
First, Dev’s choice:
Quote:Originally Posted by Wrong_NumberLast Non-Contest DC - 16 months ago
Number of DCs granted from the THREE "Recommend for DC" threads - 0
Number of "Annual" Dev run MA Awards - 1 (2009)
Hall of Fame:
In order to vote, players must be required to play through the entire arc. It’s only fair, and will cut down on people 1-starring arcs out of frustration that they can’t find a glowie (not the designers’ fault) or that the arc doesn’t have some arbitrary component they were looking for so they quit playing.
The Hall of Fame limit needs to be changed – I propose (as an example) an absolute number of 100+ 4 OR 5 star ratings –AND- at least 500 total replays of any kind. This will recognize that content that players keep going back to enjoy again and again – the best of the best. It will also be far more achievable than the current HoF limits. The numbers are flexible – ideally, an arc should make it into the HoF every three to six months or so. That means if the game runs for 10 years, a total of 20 - 40 arcs will be in the all time HoF. Not an unamangeable number for a “Hall of Fame”. As the current HoF is, this system can be automated.
There needs to be a level of recognition under the Hall of Fame – a ‘Player’s Choice’ level (not to be confused with the Player’s Choice awards run by players on the boards).
Player's Choice Designation
This should be awarded once per month (120 total over a ten year span - .032% of the total number of arcs currently extant – but a chance to win every month for competitive architects.) The requirements for this award would be as follows:
I. For consideration in a given month (February, for example), that arc must have been granted persistent “Final” status during the month immediately preceding the month for which the award will be given (January, for example).
II. The winning arc will be that arc which accumulates the greatest number of total 4 or 5 star plays (including those from the judgment period) in the month of the contest.
III. On the first of each month, the winner for the previous month will be announced, will be showcased on the CoH website main page, will be mentioned in the GMOTD, and will be placed on the featured tab of AE.
IV. To integrate AE with more recent content, to grant a large influx of plays as a reward for winning Player’s Choice, and to incentivize playing in AE, playing through the previous month’s Player’s Choice Arc in AE should grant a one-time per month reward table that allows players to choose either a Notice of the Well, a Rare IO enhancement recipe, or a Rare Incarnate component as rewarded by the iTrials.
V. An arc that has been flagged as a farm (see "Farm Flagging" below) should not be eligible for consideration in Player's Choice or Hall of Fame.
VI. (Optional) Sufficiently high quality canon-related Player’s Choice arcs should be considered for integration into the main story of the game at Devs’ discretion. I listed this as optional because it would require Dev involvement in AE, which takes time and effort.
Other Issues
This issues aren’t what makes up 80% of the player complaints about the MA system – they are comparatively minor changes that would add to the long-term viability of the system.
Content Integration
100% Automatable – No Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
PoliceWoman (@PW) had a great post on this, which touches on the complaints in Bubbawheat’s thread about how new content / dev content is outcompeting MA.
Quote:Originally Posted by ”PoliceWoman”Mission Architect is old news now, and no new content encourages you to do MA. MA was so very hot in I14. But now in I19, hardly anyone still cares; players don't go in MA except to farm. We got a few new maps, but aside from that, none of the new I19 features are integrated with MA. As a result, interest in MA is stagnating.
Specific example: I19 makes you go to Ouroboros to do Mender Ramiel's arc, and sends you to talk to Lady Grey in RWZ (from I10) to do a mission for her. Once you have the Alpha slot unlocked, getting salvage to make boosts encourages you to do the ITF (from I12), LGTF (from I10), STF (from I9), RSF (from I7), Cathedral of Pain (from I18), and the Kahn/Barracuda TFs (from I15). Tons of content from previous issues get tied into the current story, but you'll note that none of this stuff comes from Mission Architect or ties into MA in any way. I don't think you can even get incarnate shards in Mission Architect. Everyone I know is hot to get incarnate salvage and craft boosts for their alpha slot right now. Why would anyone want to spend time in MA right now? I love MA and even I have a hard time justifying doing anything MA related until I catch up with the I19 content.
This is an easy fix. I’ve already integrated my solution into the recommendations above.
Here are the two big problems I hear being complained about on CoH right now (that aren’t bases):
I. Mission Architect is Broken (see this post)
II. Incarnate Content is a Grind and is not conducive to Solo Players' Enjoyment
Kill two birds with one stone. Award threads and incarnate components for playing, rating, and participating in arcs. I’m talking reward tables of the sort found at the end of the BAF and Lambda trial, placed there in order to incentivize Architects to make great content and to incentivize players to highly rate good, story driven content.
See the contents of my post above to find more suggestions.
This would get both the mission architect monkey off of your back, and would also resolve players complaining about the two-trial grind found in the Incarnate system. Everyone is happy.
Number of Slots
100% Automatable – No Paragon Staff Attention Required after Implementation
Wrong_Number mentioned in this thread:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=221800 that, owing to her 8 slots being full, her authoring career is over.
This is a bad thing because she’s won two player’s choice awards and an AE nomination for best story.
Other players (winners of Dev’s choice awards, Player’s choice awards), et cetera have expressed the same concern. Their slots fill up, and their authoring career is cut short.
Why would you want to punish the most prolific generators of free quality content in your game?
This is also an easy fix:
Award Architect Merits, 1 for every 10 five star ratings an architect gets on a given arc. Allow architect merits to be exchanged for slots. That way, when someone like WN makes an awesome arc, the game automatically devotes more resources to allowing her to showcase her talent and improve content.
You want more slots? Make better arcs.
To preserve your bottom line, earning slots in this way might only be possible after the first 8 purchasable slots have been bought.
I don’t see any reason to put a maximum on the number of potential slots earned this way. These players are adding value to the game at no cost to you – in fact, they’re paying you to add value to your game. These high-quality content authors should be rewarded whenever possible and to the greatest extent possible.
Patches Notes
Not automatable – Paragon staff attention essential.
Last, but not least, and of minor note relative to the rest, this thread http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=259226 contains quite a few players beating on the drum and saying a truth that needs to be heeded:
For Pete’s sake, when you change architect, let us know what you did in the patch notes so we may adjust and respond accordingly. A transparent dialog with the players will only improve the value of your game and make the community happier.
Conclusion
The player community of any MMO is its greatest resource. CoX has done a fantastic job cultivating a dedicated, helpful community. We're willing to provide you with content for free, we're willing to curate that content, and we're willing to tell you (in broad strokes) our ideas for how to get it all done.
All you need to do is give us the tools to help you.
In this case, that means unbridling the creativity of the Mission Architects, providing incentives for them to be creative, providing players incentives for playing the new content, and then getting out of the way.
If Mission Architect is handled right, it represents a nearly limitless source of added value that will allow developers to get off the content-generation treadmill all of the competitors are stuck on and focus at least some of their attention on important under the hood modifications, quality of life enhancements, and new gameplay features (archetypes, powers, power sets, etc.) that are critical to the long-term success of the game.
I anticipate that my fellow players and AE experts will add their questions, comments, and suggestions below.
Get The Word Out, Please
If you think this post is worth being seen by the Devs, considering tweeting the URL: http://tinyurl.com/3msepfr to @Positron_CoH and messaging the rednames here on the boards. Links (in red) below go to their message board profile pages, from which you may send them a message by clicking the dark grey "send message" button right under their name.
In the Shawshank redemption, Andy Dufrense needed to secure funding for the prison library. So he wrote one letter a week to his congressman for years until he finally wore his congressman down.
I’m not talking about spamming or griefing the devs here. That won’t help anyone – so please don’t do that.
I am talking about creating a steady drumbeat of voices letting them know that this is a priority to the player community. The May developers’ letter tells us they will work on older content if we communicate to them that it is important.
Please, PM each of the following Devs regularly – you decide the frequency - once a week at most, once a month at least - until someone posts in this thread to let us know this is being looked at:
Beastyle
Zwillinger
Dr. Aeon
Black Scorpion
Positron
Baronyx
Acknowledgements:
Wrong_Number, Policewoman, Bubbawheat, Eva Destruction, AIB, SupaFreak, Zamuel, FredrikZvanberg and many others were instrumental in helping me think through the issues related to this post. -
Quote:Agreed. Ordered from most productive to least productive, our options are:Ok - apologies to all I may have offended then. But that section I've bolded there... is the AE really dying, being abused, ignored, etc.? I'm hearing such words and accusations being tossed around a lot and that's what I find unproductive.
[Productive] 1. To discuss the problems and advocate for solutions. ("The filter is busted. Please fix it.")
[Less Productive, but Relevant] 2. To discuss the situation and the nature of the situation. ("The future of AE is at stake!")
[Not Productive, Not Relevant] 3. To discuss people. ("The Devs are Willy Wonka and the game is a messed up chocolate factory - they're trying to weed us out until they have only one super dedicated player.")
Quote:A name filter for the AE (and the game in general) is pretty much a sound business move because one simply cannot not argue with copyright/trademark law, unless you enjoy expending a LOT of money on legal battles. Your legal advice team is like your cyber security team, paid to be paranoid for you and to point out potential legal pit-falls; if insufficiently paranoid, or you don't listen to them, you end up in a situation like Sony, up a creek without a paddle. Even the simplest thrown-out-of-court-on-the-first-day case costs you a mint. More mint to lawyers=less mint for your pocket.
The need is to be sufficiently aggressive as it relates to trademark infringement that other companies feel it would not be productive to sue them.
They already have a strong position to begin from -all of Marvel's trademark infringement counts in the 2005 case were thrown out by the court.
Further, the user agreement already forbids creation of infringing material and makes players responsible for compensating any third parties who file suit.
NCSoft has demonstrated a track record of deleting or renaming characters who have infringed the copyright.
So they're on pretty solid footing to begin with. The need for a filter is questionable at best.
However, I agree with you. A minimal filter would not be intrusive and would go far to demonstrate that NCSoft is serious about infringement. No - I should not be able to create an entity and name it "Professor Xavier" or "Batman".
That said, a filter is not the solution and should never be viewed as a solution.
The current situation seems to result from an attempt to make the filter (either the character naming filter or the MA filter) into an automated solution - this will never work.
First, the filter doesn't stop people who actually want to infringe. I can sit there and type in variants until I hit on one that works. Batman, B.a.t.ma.n, Chiropteraman, FlyingMammalMan, CapedKruzader... something is eventually going to work. Then I just set up the costume the way I want it, make him a martial arts technology scrapper, and have him fight a clown in green and purple.
Second, the filter is unnecessarily restrictive in terms of the damage it does to the creative process, given that it only impacts honest players to begin with. I should be able to use the words "Cyclops", "Beast", "White Queen" etc. to name units - because these words are common to the lexicon and could have plenty of meanings that don't reference some specific property.
The real solution to their problem is going to require monitoring by human beings. Period. A reporting system is the only way to catch those actual violations of the spirit of copyrighted properties that really matter. They can't rely on an automated system - so why use one that penalizes people who are legitimately trying to create content for the game?
Quote:I don't see any lack of empathy, my experience with reporting bugs in my arcs has been pretty good and the devs have already responded to this thread twice and addressed this topic on their livetream (apparently, didn't see it myself). And, sadly, I don't see the MA community as being 'the player base at large'.
But they've turned a deaf ear to the MA community - probably for legitimate reasons. In order to succeed, we need to give them a profit-motivated reason to pay attention to MA again.
Quote:I didn't find those posts to be vague or terse but informative and to the point; one's opinion is formed by one's mindset - if you think the sky is falling, those grey clouds look pretty ominous. If you don't think the sky is falling, then they're really nothing to worry about as they will roll by.
I don't think we're fighting for the success of the game - not enough players care about MA for it to make or break the game.
I do firmly believe if we don't stick to our guns here and show the devs this is important, then MA = bases by Issue 21.
Quote:Saying their posts are 'buried' is making it sound as if the devs actively went out of their way to hide them.
Actually, ideally, the whole thing would be addressed on CoH frontpage or in the login messages. Yes, I know, advertising your failings is not good business - but communicating clearly with your player base is.
Quote:(it's already at eleven, far as I can tell, but I'm sure we could manage to kick it up a notch).
Quote:but this thread is really over the top and "[doesn't] tend to promote an environment of calm and [isn't] productive."
Quote:It all seems to be mostly boiling down to second-guessing the devs on their jobs, characterizing them as:
1) wacky-Don-Martin-face-making morons who're just randomly pushing buttons to hear their computer go BWEEP BOOP and accidentally breaking things.
2) slackers who're lounging around their desks shooting nerfball hoops while ignoring the big red button on their desk labeled "fix the MA"
3) mustache-twirling evil-doers who persecute the player-base while kicking puppies (who knew Weston Phipps was autobiographical?!)
The devs are just normal people you know? [/B]
Question: What motivates the devs?
Answer: Their bosses.
Question: What are their bosses looking at when they make a determination in terms of how to direct the developers' time?
Answer: Dollar signs.
Assertion:
The Developers will put Mission Architect on a back burner, as they did with bases, if they feel that they can get away with it. This is not because they are horrible human beings who want to tie your mother to the train tracks as they twirl their moustaches - it's because they are people with a limited number of hours in the day who need to justify their continued employment to their bosses.
Boss says, "What are you doing?"
Positron says, "Spending forty hours a week working on a part of the game nobody cares about."
Bad day for Positron.
Right now, the powers that be are directing the devs' attention to the Steampunk pack and the Incarnate system. Steampunk pack because it will yield an influx of money - this game is moving away from being a legitimate MMO and slowly sliding into the territory of being a paymium dress-up game. Incarnate system because it will (hopefully) draw new players in.
I can't blame the devs for any of this. I have to listen to my boss too. And I can't blame NCSoft for wanting to make money.
What we have to do is make it reasonable for Positron (or whoever) to tell the higher ups that Mission Architect ought to be a priority.
The way to do that is to give him a thread or thread(s) to point at and say, "Here, look at this. It's a good business decision to spend time on Mission Architect."
....To do that, we need to get the player base fired up about MA.
If we can't, then we're done here - aside from maybe a very minor fix or two once in a while along the way (when someone decides to invest 5% of his or her work week hammering out a little issue in between working on the next costume parts pack). -
Quote:I've seen it happen with my own two eyes. So, yes.Heck "Lighten up, Francis..." would probably have caused the entire thread to self-ignite if that were the case.
I'm not trying to recommend or enforce and environment where we have to walk around on eggshells, though. -
DeathSentry -
That depends entirely on how vocal the community is in terms of establishing AE as a priority.
If we are sufficiently loud, we will be heard and AE will be maintained as a viable service.
If we are not, then AE will go the way of bases - a small, active community of dedicated but frustrated players alternately scraping by with what functioning features they have access to and complaining bitterly about what could have been.
Bases are a lost cause, according to most - but it's not too late for AE - It's up to us to convince the devs that AE is worth the trouble. -
Quote:I'm glad that you value keeping a cool head. Please keep in mind that statements like this,If that's not a straight line, I don't know what is. Pardon me for hoping that angry players might try and keep a cool head; reading and understanding what's already been said in this thread (by the devs and others) would go a long way towards helping with that.
Quote:Originally Posted by Clark_Dark_5Bugs can be like that. They've told us this is a bug and they are working on it. Breathe.
1. You're addressing someone who may already be upset with a short imperative - "breathe" - that sounds like a command. People don't respond well to commands, particularly if they've come to a thread in an already aggrieved state of mind.
2. You're potentially misrepresenting the person. It's tough to divine what their state of mind is, but I doubt you or I actually believe that the person is sitting at that keyboard hyperventilating - so they're likely to resent being depicted as an hysteric.
3. You're communicating to everyone who reads your post (and is trying to get a sense of the thread) that you believe there is a heightened state of anxiety in the thread - they'll tend to interpret that and post in kind.
Now, being an individual who values calm, I doubt you meant to do any of that - and that means that even worse than anything, you're misrepresenting yourself when you communicate in that sort of language.
---
All that said, I'll restate that I think there is sufficient cause to express concern to the developers here.
They've made a fairly grave error, where Mission Architect is concerned. While it's tough to know what's going on under the hood, it looks like they've tied the MA filters to the character naming filters (a bad idea) or added terms to the MA filters (a bad idea). If the former, then our problems may have arisen while they were working on the related character naming filters. If the latter, they're specifically targeting the MA system - which is even scarier.
Either way, recent events show a lack of empathy on the part of the devs to the needs of the Architect community and the playerbase at large.
It is intuitively obvious that it would be a smart business decision for them to promote a system whereby players generate quality content for them for free. Yet they don't seem to be placing an especially high priority on repairing this crucial element that makes CoX games unique in the MMO playing field - only players who come to the boards and find this thread to find out have any idea of what's going on - and that information has been delivered in a couple of terse, vague posts buried within the pages of this thread - and even those players who send in complaints are getting somewhat indifferent responses from the GMs. Those response consist largely of, "Change your arc", rather than, "Hold tight - this will be fixed soon."
Some players are reacting to the overall pattern of treatment of the Mission Architect system. PoliceWoman did a good job encapsulating this feeling.
Players have a great deal of time and energy invested in the MA system - Wrong_Number has done a good job detailing why these new developments are a huge problem for the generators of arguably some of the best content in the game.
I'm particularly concerned by GM Roland's somewhat dogmatic assertion that they "can't remove the filter" without adding further detail. Is this a technical limitation, a legal limitation, or a practical limitation? What is being prioritized here and why? (I think the answer to that question is actually, "The steampunk pack. And I can't really fault them, since it will generate revenue. But still, I think they need to be reminded that MA is still important.)
Anyhow, I think there are some productive ideas and criticisms rolling out of this thread - and I don't see the value in trying to mute those criticisms when it's known that around here, the squeaky wheel gets the grease.
To sum up, I don't think it's time for people to panic and start dropping their accounts by any means - but I do think a few pointed questions and a little cage rattling is warranted at this point. -
I can't argue with NCSoft's customer service.
I filled out a survey after my last exchange with the GMs, mentioned the customer service was fine but the MA filter policy was absurd.
Got a response from a very friendly GM Roland.
Exchange below:
GM Roland: Hello,
I came across this issue while reviewing surveys. I apologize if our responses were misleading, but we do recognize that the word filters are not working as intended in the Mission Architect.
We have made some adjustments to our name filters recently and as an unintended side effect, the filter as applied to the Mission Architect has become overzealous. It is not our intention to block the use of our signature characters from use in the Mission Architect, only from use in character creation. There are other side effects that are currently causing players some issues while designing missions.
We are working on ways to lessen the impact of the filters in the Mission Architect, but we cannot completely remove it. The workarounds mentioned for you to use for now are only temporary if you want to be able to access your mission sooner. As soon as possible, we will have a more permanent solution to the issue.
Please let me know if you have any further questions.
Regards,
GM Roland
I didn't especially like Roland's assertion that "we cannot completely remove it", so I responded with some criticism.
Nonetheless, Roland's response does tell me they are working on it, and it does let me know NCSoft cares enough about its customers to answer their concerns (even when there are probably quite a few of us complaining about this.)
Bleak_Wanderer: GM Roland,
Thanks for your reply. I appreciate you taking the time to send me a message. I want to be clear (and I tried to be in my survey) that I have no problem whatsoever with the quality of the GM responses - to the contrary, the customer service team has done an exemplary job (as evidenced by the exchange we're having right now).
My beef is most likely with the developers.
If the Architect filter was in place in some capacity before this latest change, it was probably fine - because I never noticed it.
The concern that we mission architects have is this:
The filter is unnecessary, ineffective, and punitive only to those who wish to accurately design quality content for the game.
Unnecessary:
The game already has a reporting system which players may use to police MA content. I know for a fact that players can and do use this system to report copyright infringement. If you want to promote the use of such a system, then provide incentives for accurate reporting. Care would need to be taken to reward accurate reporting without rewarding the generation of objectionable content for the sake of reporting it - but it can be done. (I'll refer you to the 'Whistle Status' section of Newgrounds http://www.newgrounds.com/lit/faq/ for a system that seems to work. Click the URL and search 'Whistle' if you're interested.)
I think NCSoft could make a fairly strong case in court by demonstrating they reward players who report such content and ban infringers from creating more content.
Ineffective:
An automated filter is always going to fail at catching people intent on violating the spirit of the copyright policy. If I am a violator (which I am not), and if I want to make a story about Batman (which I don't, but for argument's sake), then I'm going to make a story about Batman. I'll build a costume that looks like Batman, and I'll keep trying name variations until I get one close enough that circumvents the filter, yet everyone knows the copyrighted character I'm referencing, and then I'll copy a storyline right out of a comic book (which you can't stop with any filter).
The copyright filter won't stop me copying the comic book story or making an arc about a Martial Arts/Technology scrapper who dresses in a black bat costume and fights an evil clown in a purple and green suit.
To stop that, you need players who report violators. See my previous point, above.
Punitive:
As discussed, copyright violators are almost untouched by the filter. Completely unaffected.
Conversely, if I'm trying to make a chess arc and I can't use "White Queen", that's a problem because it damages the integrity of the story I'm trying to build. There's not really another way to have a "white queen" chess piece character without using a name that sounds awkward - but because there is a copyrighted character with that name, I can't build a chess arc.
That's just one example of an infinite number of potential issues - issues neither you nor I can predict because we can't consider all the possible legitimate uses of language.
If I spend two hours crafting an arc, and then find out that the key signature character of that arc (the final villain, for example) can't have the fantastic name I thought up for him because it's a character name in some obscure comic somewhere (like the obscure Marvel villain, Positron, for example).... then my entire arc might be scrapped - all that time and effort wasted.
One or two demoralizing experiences like that, and I'm not going to be interested in risking it again - so I'm not going to generate quality content for your game.
---
NCSoft is throwing the baby out with the bath water here.
If you can forward my thoughts up the chain or along to the devs, I'd be grateful.
Please don't feel any need or obligation to respond to this message any further - your customer service obligation is fulfilled, and you have other people who need help. I could rant about this until the end of time.
I'm going to post this to the board as well, both as an example of the good customer service you guys are providing and to underscore my point as to why this filter is a terrible idea.
Thanks. -
Good questions, DS. Unfortunately, for the moment, we're just fighting to make sure AE stays viable at all:
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=259226 -
Quote:I appreciate you drawing attention to this - some folks don't read every post.*cough*
Anyone remember this from waaay back? Last Friday? Anyone at all? Or is the sky falling too loudly?
I think our concerns remain valid, however.
This update was a pretty serious incursion into our latitude with the MA system - and any efficacious remedy must be similarly expansive, or the net effect will still be an unacceptable curtailment of creative freedom for no good reason.
I feel as though they need to catch significant heat over this, or the solution they implement before considering this "solved" and moving on will be far too minimal and will leave those who wish to use the MA system hamstrung. -
While we wait, I figure that since copyright compliance is so critical to NCSoft, we can help them police their own content. Here's the list I have so far (thanks for your contributions, Drakmarth):
NCSoft Signature or Major Properties that have names in common with other comic companies (not based on the filter, because the filter automatically includes NCSoft signature property names, and because NCSoft may not have noticed their "violation" themselves - which is why I'm helping them out with this post):
"Recluse" is a DC villain, and a member of the Council of Spiders (http://dc.wikia.com/wiki/Recluse_(New_Earth))
"Nemesis", found in both the Marvel and DC universes.
"Positron" is a marvel villain.
"Manticore" is a character in the marvel and DC universes.
"Synapse" is also a marvel villain - a member of Emissaries of Evil.
"Bobcat" is a criminal in the marvel universe.
"Mynx" is a marvel comics character who first appeared in "Thanos #8".
"Tyrant" is a cosmic being in the Marvel universe. He hangs out with Galactus.
"Citadel" is an empire in the DC universe.
"Prometheus" is a character in the DC comics universe.
"Black Scorpion" contains substring "Scorpion", which is on the copyright list - probably due to the "Moral Kombat" character.
"Flux" (a hero contact in CoH) is a character in the Marvel comics universe.
"Indigo" (a hero contact in CoH) is a character in the DC comics universe.
"Abyss" (a villain contact in CoV) is a character in the Marvel and DC comics universes.
"Caleb", (a giant monster), a character in both Marvel and DC universes.
"Kraken", (a giant monster), found in both Marvel and DC universes.
"Paladin", (a giant monster), found in the Marvel universe.
"Black Swan", a character in the Marvel universe.
NCSoft mobs that violate the copyright filter:
Owing to the fact that "Cyclops" is a character name used by Marvel:
Cyclops, an enemy unit in Cimerora.
Owing to the fact that "Minotaur" is a character name used by Marvel:
Minotaur, an enemy unit in Cimerora.
Owing to the fact that "Guardian" is a character name used by both Marvel and DC:
Guardian, an enemy in the Circle of Thorns faction
Guardian, an enemy in the Devouring Earth faction
Guardian, an enemy in the Fir Bolg faction
Guardian, an enemy in the Rikti faction
Guardian Mu'Rakir, an NPC encountered by villains
Guardian Shard, an enemy in the Devouring Earth faction
Longbow Guardian, an enemy in the Longbow faction
Mu Guardian, an enemy in the Arachnos faction
NCSoft Groups or Factions that violate NCSoft copyright standards:
"Hellions", which are a teenage mutant team in the Marvel universe.
"Council", a villain faction in the DC universe (Detective Comics #439).
"Cabal", a vigilante group in the Marvel universe.
"Outcasts", a group in the Marvel universe.
Anyone else care to add?
Devs, if you are positively gobsmacked by the far-reaching, invasive, crushing implications this seemingly arbitrary and completely unpredictable list has for your content, the changes you would need to make, and the damage it would do to your creative process.... I empathize.
Unfortunately, in today's litigious society, it's necessary. Isn't it?
I look forward to seeing all of these character and group names modified in the near future. We'll help you to keep a close watch on all content going forward as well - and we'll keep looking at your existing content. I'm sure we haven't scratched the surface.