Bill Z Bubba

Question:

If you're double stacking Rage, does the 10 second crash occur every 60 seconds? It does, doesn't it? I'll need to reduce the overall damage by 1/6th? Wow.

Ok... I'm done with Primaries + Shield. I calculated totals for both 10 enemies in range of SD/AAO and 3 enemies in range.

For 10 enemies:
Scrapper DM wins with a whopping 294DPS
Scrapper BS is the big loser at a piddly 203.6DPS

For 3 enemies:
Brute SM wins with 245.7DPS
And again, Scrapper BS is at the bottom of the pack with 171.3DPS.

So that's winners and losers for now. I want to see how the primaries do with something like Fiery Armor buffing them further with Fiery Embrace and Blazing Aura, but my gut says we won't see much shuffling around of the order.

Once I'm done, I'll upload my spreadsheet and a full explanation of all the calculations I used and why I used them.


<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Scrap Dark w/ 10 294
Brute Stone w/ 10 267.8
Brute Dark w/ 10 264.6
Brute Fiery w/ 10 257.8
Scrap Fiery w/ 10 248.3
Brute Energy w/ 10 239.9
Brute Strength w/ 10 237.1
Scrap Martial w/ 10 213.7
Scrap Katana w/ 10 211.6
Scrap Broadsword w/ 10 203.6
</pre><hr />
<font class="small">Code:[/color]<hr /><pre>
Brute Stone w/ 3 245.7
Brute Fiery w/ 3 236.6
Brute Strength w/ 3 221.7
Brute Energy w/ 3 220.1
Brute Dark M w/ 3 219.8
Scrap Dark M w/ 3 209.2
Scrap Fiery w/ 3 208.8
Scrap Martial w/ 3 179.7
Scrap Katana w/ 3 178
Scrap Broadsword w/ 3 171.3
</pre><hr />
EDIT: Found an error in Super Strength. I only took away 1/12th of rages buff instead of dropping the total damage output by a 12th for rage's crash. BRB with corrections.

EDIT2: Working on the thought that if you double stack rage, you lose 10 seconds every 60. So I multiplied SS's total damage by 5/6.

New results are edited into this post.

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The dots are enhanceable by damage buffs, so it should be fully effected by Fury.

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That's what I expected to hear. wooooof.

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Clearly, Castle should buff Scrapper's Fire Melee.


[edit: Don't forget that GFS deals a different scale for Scrappers and Brutes in your calculations.]

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Huh? Showing 2.28 for + 80% chance of 1 for scrapper
Showing 2.44 and 80% chance of 1 for brute

...... ohhhhhhh I DID miss that. Why would brute GFS get an extra .16 lethal damage?

Easy fix in the totals. Thanks, Sarrate!

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The dots are enhanceable by damage buffs, so it should be fully effected by Fury.

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That's what I expected to hear. wooooof.

Another question:

We know that FM's extra DoT damage is unaffected by crits...

But I don't see anything in the power description for brute GFS that states its extra DoT is unaffected by fury.

Anyone know the skinny on that?

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KO-&gt;Gloom-&gt;Haymaker-&gt;Punch-&gt;Gloom-&gt;Haymaker

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1.5/1.33/.96/.69/1.33/.96 (6.77) in 9.9 = .684

Mine: 1.5/.69/1.33/.69/.96/.69 (5.86) in 9.768 = .6

279% rec-red in gloom

Much better. Thank you.

Ok then. Looks like I'm a go for part 3.

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Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.

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Scrapper - Spines
Ripper/DB/Throw/DB
Needs 226% recharge in Dark Blast

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Nicro,
I think I'm ignoring spines as I'm ignoring claws. There's no way those two will make the cut. Just like axe and mace.

I'd throw them in, but I don't want folks reading the results thread to judge those sets worthless because they don't have massive single target output. Their AoE output is is what makes them shine.

Yes, I'll show everything involved in what I'm doing when I've got all my Ts crossed.


Iggy, I'll check that SS chain shortly. Much prettier than mine.

Looking forward to it.

EDIT: Dang... thought I-15 beta was starting today.

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Thanks, I was asking what are generally thought of as good enhacnes to go into an MA/SD scrappers atttacks, since I can't get anyone to post about my build. Just trying to ride your thunder here and get an answer.

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Completely logical! Purple sets! And Touch of Death and Mako's Bite for defense. No, seriously. To get to the levels of recharge we're discussing in this thread you're going to have to be IOed out head to toe.

MA is kind of the red-headed step child these days, it seems, and I've never gotten past the 20s with it, so I'd be the wrong person to ask. Hopefully another MA user will come help you out. nudgenudgewinkwink.

I do find it very interesting that eagle's claw isn't even in use for a high DPS build.

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What do these numbers mean?

Yours: 1.25/1.06/1.25/.887 in 5.808 = .766
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673

Also, what enhancements would someone put into those attacks for MA? What would you put into EC as far as enhancements go?

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The numbers in the slashes are the unspecified damage values for each attack in the chain*EDIT: divided by the adjusted activation time. The "actual" DPA.* Later, I'll multiply those by the AT melee damage modifier for level 50. I use the unspecified values (all pulled from City of Data) to make my life easier when figuring out all the various final damage values.

The "in" # is the adjusted time of the attack chain in question, adjusted by arcanatime. Arcanatime gives us a more accurate activation time due to some clunky crud happening with server ticks that I won't pretend to understand fully.

As for slotting, for the purposes of this bit of useless fun, I'll be plugging in 95% damage buff from enhancements.

I'll also be seeing how the various secondaries affect the primary chain including damage auras and damge buffs from the secondary like fiery embrace+blazing aura, or against all odds.

SECOND EDIT: On those numbers in the slashes, I also rounded them off just to get quick figure estimations on which chain was better.

So I got 1.25 for storm kick.

Storm kick's actual unspecified damage is 1.32 smashin
It's posted cast time is .83 seconds.

Take the cast time and slap it into arcanatime it looks like this:
(roundup(.83/.132)+1)*.132 = X
(roundup(6.288)+1)*.132 = X
8*.132 = 1.056

1.32/1.056 = 1.25 Damage per Arcanatime

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Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.

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Brute - DM
MG/Gloom/Smite/SL/Gloom/Smite
Needs 264% recharge in Gloom

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Yours: 1.23/1.33/1.11/.93/1.33/1.11 in 9.372 = .75112
Mine: 1.33/1.23/1.11/.93 in 6.864 = .67

You win.


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My Martial Arts scrapper goes with Storm Kick, Eagles Claw, Storm Kick, Crane Kick, and repeat. Not sure how much my recharge value is due to being at work.

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Yours: 1.25/.823/1.25/1.06 in 6.732 = .651
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673

Keeping mine.


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The second chain outperforms the first one with just 220% +rech and a 0.5 second gap. More +rech just means it outperforms the first one by more.

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Yours: 1.037/1.035/.99/1.035 in 7.656+.5 or 8.156 = .5023
Mine: 1.037/1.035/.99/.63 in 7.656 = .482

You win, but that .5 sec pause would drive me nuts.


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Storm Crane Storm Crippling

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Yours: 1.25/1.06/1.25/.887 in 5.808 = .766
Mine: 1.25/1.06/.887 in 4.752 = .673

You win again.

Any others?

EDIT: Specifically with SuperStrength? That chain looks UGLY.

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On FM's DoT, only the two swords have it for the chain I was using, and CoD made it seem like they were nothing but an 80% chance of all the DoT hitting. So I tacked on that damage at 80% of the actual value but didn't allow it to affect the crit value.

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FYI, CoD doesn't seem to indicate this anymore, but unless something changed with FM and FB I think the DoT chances are CancelOnMiss. That means that there's an 80% chance for the first DoT to happen, and if it occurs there's an 80% chance for the second one to fire off, but if not the second will never fire. So the DoT's stop firing once they get a miss.

If they are still set up like that (and I wouldn't be able to check until tonight), then the proper way to calculate the average number of DoT damage tics for 5 tics of 80% DoT with the CancelOnMiss flag would be:
0.8 + (0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) + (0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8*0.8) =
0.8 + 0.64 + 0.512 + 0.4096 + 0.32768 = 2.68928

Or, around 2.7 tics of DoT on average.
4 Tics of 80% CancelOnMiss produce an average of 2.3616 tics
3 = 1.952
2 = 1.44

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Interesting. Please get back to me when you find out what's happening on live.

Ok... now that I'm working with corrected arcanatime, here's what I've got for attack chains and the necessary recharges.

Brute - DM
Gloom, MG, Smite, SL
Needs 225% rec-red in MG

Scrap - DM
MG, Smite, SL, Smite
Needs 234% rec-red in MG

Brute - FM
Gloom, Incinerate, GFS
Needs 278% rec-red in MG

Scrap- FM
Incinerate, Cremate, GFS
Needs 237% rec-red in GFS

Brute - SM
SS, SF, Gloom, SF, HM
Needs 279% rec-red in SS

Brute - SS
KO, Punch, Gloom, Punch, Haymaker, Punch
Needs 238% rec-red in KO Blow

Brute - EM
ET, Gloom, BS, TF
Needs 237% rec-red in Total Focus

Scrap - BS
HS, Hack, Disembowel, Slash
Needs 172% rec-red in Headsplitter
NOTE: For HS, Hack, Dis, Hack: Hack would need 304% rec-red

Scrap - Kat
GD, GC, SD, GC
Needs 250% rec-red in GD

Scrap - MA
Storm, Crane, Crippling
Needs 244% rec-red in Crane


Suggestions? Corrections? Stonings? Going a little over my goal of max 270% total recharge, but I'm betting these are still possible on that front. Is end usage sustainable? Don't know yet.

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You calculated the Arcanatimes wrong there Billz.

The method is (roundUp(base/.132)+1)*.132.

Incinerate has an Arcanatime activation of 1.848, Cremate of 1.716, and GFS of 2.508. Plug those numbers into your calculation, and you'll get the right numbers.

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Fark.

Left out the +1 in the equation. Thank you. Redoing it all.

EDIT: Fixed. Our numbers are the same now. But I have to go back through and make sure that all the attack chains I created are still valid.

EDIT2: Looks like the only chain I need to redo is for EM.

Claws/SR.

It's not the best at anything, but it's so good at everything that I don't care.

If that's the case, then some of the chains presented in this thread must have some nasty pauses.

Example:

Incinerate, Cremate, GFS
1.716, 1.584, 2.376 aracantime casts

Powers don't start recharging until activation time is done, true?

GFS has a recharge of 12 seconds and we need to get it down to (1.716+1.584) 3.3. (12-3.3)/3.3 = ~264% total recharge needed. (Or is my equation wrong?)

Where's someone going to come up with that level of recharge?

70 from hasten, 87.5 from 5 purples and 5 LotGs, the purple sets only give 68.9% recharge... (EDIT: Correction: Purple single targets give 89.92)

I'm still missing 37.6% recharge.

Doable with other sets and going with different slotting on GFS, but we really are pushing the envelope of doable here. (After correction and considering all the other +recharge buffs... ok, I'll set 270 as the cap.)

Which I guess is the point.

Question for everyone:

When considering IOed out builds, how much total recharge should I be comfortably allowing for?

Right now I'm shooting for around 200% from hasten, setIOs and power enhancements.

Is that too low? Too high? Thoughts?

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I figure I will just calculate the DPA of all attacks and then put them in order from highest to lowest once Im done

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That's basically what I'm doing. But I'm also taking into account hasten, global recharge buffs and recharge enhancements in specific powers in an attempt to build optimal attack chains to determine who's got the highest potential.

So far, I'm doing everything I can to build chains utilizing right around 200% Total Recharge Buff and for the brute chains, I am including Gloom. How can you not consider a power that has damn near Energy Transfer levels of damage per arcanatime?

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Scrappers
Fire melee
Repeatable and sustainable
Incinerate, Cremate, GFS.
Forgot the recharge req, sorry.

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Incinerate requires 137% +rech.
Cremate requires 84% +rech.
GFS requires 237% +rech.

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Umbral, for the Incin, Crem, GFS chain, after factoring in Arcanatime, I'm getting 279% total recharge needed for GFS for that chain to work. Did you use Arcanatime?

EDIT: if it is 279%, I don't think I can use that chain. That's a LOT of recharge and from the builds I've seen, you rather have to gimp yourself to get there.

EDIT2: Gorram it. *I'M* not using the right column.

Another question:

For powers like Gloom and Incinerate that are nothing but DoT attacks, the fully stack right? There's not anything in the code that shuts a DoT off to avoid DoT stacking is there?

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I think they should call this one

Clopen Beta

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Making up your own words there NG?

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It's a perfect cromulent word.

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In fact, I am pleased to embiggen my vocabulary in such a manner.

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This is a truly pronking idea.

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/facedesk
//repeatedly

doh! Yes.

EDIT: And now we see WHY I need something for my brain to latch on to... gettin flighty as hell lately. Thinking senility is setting in.

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Poo...






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On the other hand, you come slinging poo, which I respect.

However, since I-15 beta is starting tomorrow (no, I DON'T know that, I'm just hoping!) then it may all be a moot point and I'll be on test this weekend anyway.

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Bill: You got it.

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Good. Then I haven't screwed anything up yet.

Just and FYI, folks, this is not an overnight project for me. I have job and a family so I'll be plugging away as time permits.


Sarrate, I don't know that the damage auras can be dismissed so easily, because the primary in use buffing the aura will be different in some cases. On top of that, for instance, soul drain buffing blazing aura on a scrapper will be better than soul drain buffing blazing aura on a brute.

Wow... I'm gonna be crunching a LOT of numbers.

Again, good.

On spines, I'll look into it.

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Can people present higher attack chains based on +Damage?

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I don't see why not! Especially considering I didn't even consider the IO global damage buffs I have on my main.

Quick questions for the masses, though, do the IO global damage buffs act in the same way as all the other buffs? Meaning all they do is add on another X% of base damage?

To put it another way, if I have 9% global damage buff and 100% from BU, it's still just Base*(1+1+.09) correct?

EDIT: Same goes for damage auras. If you want me to figure them in as well, (and the associated end suckage) it should be easy to do so.