BellaStrega

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Yes. One of the people at White Wolf is trying to keep Uwe Boll from going psychotic on the Hunter property. While I don't have much faith it'll work, at least they're trying.

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I weep.. Boll is going to end up putting the nail in the coffin for Hunter. Exalted is my favorite White Wolf game. Hunter was my second.

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I've heard it argued that the console Hunter games did enough to bastardize the franchise as it is.

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And Boll's movie is based on the console games, not the RPG.

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I think y'all should just relax. There's no artistic integrity to maintain by talking about real rpgs vs the denatured MMORPG variety.

And, heck, most fights in PnP RPGs go the same way - people execute their powers/attacks until the target is dead. Having your approach to conflict limited in CoH or WoW isn't that big of a deal.

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Hi Kali. I didn't think that this would come across the way that it did. I thought I was just soapboxing aesthetics.

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I replied to you and may have quoted you, but that wasn't aimed only at you. I used to write RPGs for a living, and I think that people are too tied up in definitions that aren't really all that important.

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Travel supression was patched in to prevent a tactic called kiting or jousting.

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Nope. From PMs:

Me:

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1.) Am I correct that the purpose of travel power suppression is to inhibit the practice of jousting?

3.) If so, then why is it still possible to joust with Speed Boost and other similiar powers?


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Statesman:

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1. No. They're meant to eliminate issues in PvE.

3. Because jousting wasn't the reason for the change.



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What reasons in PVE? What is travel power suppression intended to prevent?

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Its not quite like that, Moon. In a real RPG, you're playing a role. You're basically acting. You're limited by your imagination and by what the character you're playing can conceptually do. Online RPGs, like any other computer RPG, single-player or not, are forced to limit your actions to what their game engine can support.

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I think y'all should just relax. There's no artistic integrity to maintain by talking about real rpgs vs the denatured MMORPG variety.

And, heck, most fights in PnP RPGs go the same way - people execute their powers/attacks until the target is dead. Having your approach to conflict limited in CoH or WoW isn't that big of a deal.

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Well, you're right, but the TSR Superhero game was so complicated, not even this level 14 Paladin could understand it!

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Marvel Superheroes (both editions) had to be one of the simplest superhero RPGs ever made.

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I don't understand something, and maybe I'm just naive, but why not make initiating an attack stop you dead in your tracks where you first initiated the attack? Make the character lose all momentum, speed, etc. I run at an enemy with an attack queued - as soon as I'm in range, blam!, I'm stopped right there...

Make the movement powers have acceleration and decceleration values so it's not just instant-away...

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I believe it has to do with latency. The attack triggers as soon as you're in range, and your animation goes off when the attack triggers. However, by then you're a good distance from the target.

Suppression hasn't really stopped it, just slowed it down.

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Yes. One of the people at White Wolf is trying to keep Uwe Boll from going psychotic on the Hunter property. While I don't have much faith it'll work, at least they're trying.

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I weep.. Boll is going to end up putting the nail in the coffin for Hunter. Exalted is my favorite White Wolf game. Hunter was my second.

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White Wolf already put the nail in the coffin for Hunter when it immanentized the eschaton. Admittedly, it and the other oWoD games might still be worthwhile for licensing purposes.

Also, I think Uwe Boll's filmmaking might take a sharp downturn now that the German tax laws were changed.

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Babysteps, to be sure.

Though, with all the high-hype MMO projects slated for the next few years; one fears they might miss out on an opportunity at this juncture.

<shrug>

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I would be surprised if they're not trying to find a developer to pick up their property. Unfortunately, there hasn't been a Bioware or Black Isle to pick up WW's properties and give us a series of games.

Given how popular the World of Darkness is in MUDs, I expect to see either a WoD MMO or at least the beginnings of developing one, though.

Sadly, though, look at the developers who had WW licenses:

Interplay - gone
Nihilistic - Not a great trail of projects, but still active
Troika - gone
ASC Games - gone

One out of four isn't bad.

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It does say a lot about the company. I was actually introduced to the WoD (never PnP'd in my life) through the first VtM game, and was gently enamored of the premise. It seems like their priority is protecting the integrity of the property, aborted TV series notwithstanding.

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Yes. One of the people at White Wolf is trying to keep Uwe Boll from going psychotic on the Hunter property. While I don't have much faith it'll work, at least they're trying.

Kindred wasn't all that bad, but that was their first real licensing experience. I think they learned a lot from it.

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I can't really say as to CCGs, but Everquest has been a PnP RPG for four years or so now, and Warcraft has had two iterations as a PnP RPG (D&D Warcraft and World of Warcraft) for about three years. So, no, City of Heroes isn't the first.

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RPGing itself seems to be kind of a genre unto itself, whether it starts on paper (as in D&DO), or on computer.

If SWG and MxO are any indication, going cross-franchise into RPG/MMOing seems to have all kinds of difficult propositions attached to it -- in no small part because of the potentially exorbitant and contradictory expectations of both the customer base and licensing agency. Take note of that, DC, Marvel and Star Trek.

So, it kind of begs the question as to who's going to be the next big thing. The initial reports from D&DO seem to be pretty conflicted -- good for PnPers, bad for MMO-experienced gamers. One wonders how Warhammer Online is coming along, and if White Wolf is getting their [censored] in gear.

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Well, White Wolf is ultimately the publisher of both the games I cited above.

I would be surprised if they weren't interested in marketing the WoD or Exalted games onto other platforms. Obviously, Hunter and Vampire have had console and computer (respectively) iterations, Werewolf had a failed game (for various reasons), and Exalted was licensed to Interplay before it went bankrupt.

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I believe City of Heroes is a phenomenon unlike any the gaming world has seen before (well, except for Star Wars but we won't get into that). You began with an MMORPG Computer game. Then you moved, ever so slightly, into a HeroClix minuratures game. You are now reaching into the CCG world with City of Heroes. Soon, you will be venturing into the Pen and Paper Paragon City.

Only three game-types have I sever seen do this: Star Wars, BattleTech, and Dungeons & Dragons. But these started in other genres and moved into MMOs. City of Heroes is the first MMO that has broken the barriers and is moving into CCGs and PnPs.

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I can't really say as to CCGs, but Everquest has been a PnP RPG for four years or so now, and Warcraft has had two iterations as a PnP RPG (D&D Warcraft and World of Warcraft) for about three years. So, no, City of Heroes isn't the first.

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I think they list video games because, especially recently with stuff like the Matrix games, we've seen film makers working on games and vice-versa.

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I've been checking the IMDB for voice casts on video games as far back as Baldur's Gate and Fallout. Quite a few actors do voice work in video games, which is likely where a lot of it comes from.

Whenever I ran into a voice I thought I recognized, I'd check the IMDB. Sometimes, the voices are surprising (I never expected Mitch Pileggi to portray a Githzerai, but there he was), and often fairly obvious (David Warner as the villain? Who knew?).

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I am Matthew's brother. The man behind Coyote was one of the most kind and helpful people I have ever known. He spent his life working to make things better for others, whether it was on the forums, in the game, as part of the SCA, or just with friends and co-workers. He was a funny, crazy, guy that never failed to give people a laugh when they needed it most. He made quite an impression on people in the forums and in the game.

One of the reasons that I got into this game and continue to pay for 3 subscriptions, is the fact that they care enough about the community that they put my brother in the game that he loved so much.

I hope maybe that gives you some idea of who he is, although I apologize if I am threadjacking, or getting too sappy/maudlin. There should still be posts in the forums about him. I know I have read them all.

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Not maudlin, but more than welcome. Lots of people who come into the game don't know who Coyote is or why he's in the tutorial, so it is very good that this comes up every few months.

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But as stated earlier, Viewers can influence actual entries made into that particular Database, so things like this, well-intentioned as it was... can slip by.

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Well, the IMDB lists video games, and the IMDB lists trivia about the entries, so the mention of Matthew Bragg is just fine. Nothing to stress about.

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Yea, a lot of actors have done voice work for video games.


Of course, the only voices in CoX are taunts and grunts.

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Yes, however the consequence of listing video games means that videogames get listed. While that sounds circular, it isn't. Since games with voice acting are listed (such as KOTOR), games without voice acting tend to get listed too (such as City of Heroes). The cause and effect isn't confusing.

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Yes, it is all true. But what that entry is doing in a Movie/Actor Database, I'll never understand.

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Video games are commonly listed in the IMDB, and it's updated sort of like a wiki. That is, users can submit information about any given entry.

And that's why it's in a movie/actor database.

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"In the tutorial, "Outbreak", one of the contacts for new players is named Coyote a.k.a. Matthew Bragg. This character is named after the first pre-beta City of Heroes message board member, Kiyotee. Kiyotee, who was named Matthew Bregg in real life, was always the one to help out new people on the message boards. He died shortly after the game was released, and the contact was renamed in his honor."

I got this from http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0451018/

is this true? If so, it's something that I'd never heard of. How "soon after the game was released" was it. That contact has always been coyote AFAIK. I started week 3, so was it before that, or was I just that unobservant back then?

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You were unobservant. The contact used to be some detective, and was changed in issue 3 or 4 (I forget which).

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You could use superspeed to reduce the number of attacks you took, by breaking line of sight and otherwise kiting. You would still take attacks, but you could survive a bit longer if you were able to control the encounter.

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Strangely enough these are all things that would naturally occur to you if you actual could run at super speeds!

*smacks forehead*

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I know. I don't think it was really that uber.

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Apparently, the ability to control the encounter was too uber.

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From the forums I got the impression that with certain mobs you could trick the AI to swap between melee or range attacks or that with some mobs once they went to melee attacks they never went back to ranged.

I never once heard of a problem with travel powers, always with mob AI. So where did they apply the "fix" ?

I still believe travel suppression is the single biggest genre-breaking thing in the game.

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I never found an encounter where I could completely negate risk by using superspeed to kite. I have found encounters where I could completely negate risk by running backwards (fighting a Murk Eidolon on the streets of Galaxy with a ranged character). However, that only required sprint. In another instance, I managed to keep a Luminous Eidolon focused on melee, so it only used brawl which pretty much negated risk in that case too.

But neither required travel powers, or even precursors to travel powers.

I really don't like suppression.

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It's a SHAME it took 4 issues to FINALLY deal with that TERRIBLE, risk vs reward exploit in PvE with the Travel Power Suppression compromise.

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Great post, but is this one sarcasm?

I never understood the claims that jousting gave an advantage in PvE. I did it a few times early on and noticed that they got a melee attack on me just as I got one on them, and they got to hit me at least once per pass with a ranged attack too.

When supression hit, someone said something about people soloing Countess Crey using jousting. What I didn't get was, jousting caused a MASSIVE hit in DPS, to the point that I don't believe anybody that claims they could beat the Countess' health regeneration while doing it. Meanwhile, I soloed her during this period while standing right in front of her, barely beating her health regen with a near constant attack chain.

Can someone explain to me how jousting could be used to give any significant advantage in PvE?

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You could use superspeed to reduce the number of attacks you took, by breaking line of sight and otherwise kiting. You would still take attacks, but you could survive a bit longer if you were able to control the encounter.

Apparently, the ability to control the encounter was too uber.

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For the record, someone earlier said that flight was the only travel power that improves as you level - I'm sure that super jump does as well. My 50th level leaper can manage much longer jumps than she could at 27th (when she had SOs slotted in hurdle and superjump).

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Swift increases as you level, as well.

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Well, yes. I meant superjump the travel power rather than hurdle and swift the travel buffs.

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Final comment, a prediction, what will probably come from the discussion with Geko is this: Instead of fixing fly, they'll nerf hurdle and swift so that they do not stack with superspeed and superjump/combat jump.

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Even though neither of these is particularly harmful, and picking hurdle instead of an attack or defense is a real (if not huge) cost. It doesn't really matter so much in the later game when you have superleap.

For the record, someone earlier said that flight was the only travel power that improves as you level - I'm sure that super jump does as well. My 50th level leaper can manage much longer jumps than she could at 27th (when she had SOs slotted in hurdle and superjump).

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Not to toot my own horn or anything, but I thought this was a pretty darn good idea.

Make flight speed enhancers Schedule D, so that you get a 60% buff, and then I think most flyers' woes will go away.

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I suggested that when CoV was still in beta. Good luck, though. It's probably a workable idea.

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Amen... sista? brotha? Who knows these days... If hurdle + combat jumping can get me moving as fast as superspeed, then hover should be good for something. Or reduce the god awful endurance drain on Fly. I can handle the supression during battle, but man the endurance drain is ginormous.

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Sista, and I don't think Hurdle + CJ can match superspeed. It is pretty fast, though. Hover should be slower because it has full z-axis movement, but it shouldn't be as slow as it is.

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Hover: We might buff it some, at some point. However, it should never be an effective travel power.

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I think a lot of people would like it if it were faster than unslotted sprint with three flight speed SOs.

As for effective at travel, Combat Jumping + Hurdle can already do this to a point. Getting Hover to where it can work about as well shouldn't break anything. Not saying as fast, but it really should be better than sprint, especially with slots invested.

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I love playing this game, but I often get strange reactions from people when I tell them I play MMO's. How do you guys justify/explain playing the game/use of the game?

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Well, justification isn't necessary, as playing MMORPGs is a hobby like any other. Why do people watch sporting events or go to movies?