Aura_Familia

Originally Posted by GadgetDon

If it's earnable in game - it's free. Merits are cheap and easy to get, friends can drag you through the unlock quickly, etc. They might as well just remove the invention license or drop the permanent free Invention license to tier 2.

And it's clear that this is something the devs don't want to do.

Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison

You really want to play the PM game?



Look, I know you're not going to stop hounding my posts trying to make me look bad, but I'm ok with that. If that's how you want to spend your time, fine. At least it's entertaining.

Originally Posted by EvilGeko

I've never been able to do that badge either. One of many reasons I stopped caring so much about badges.

Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU

Even easier, i can spend a Character unlock slot on my PB and see if it works.

It does indeed work *for now*, which makes it even more bizzare in that controllers/masterminds are locked even if you unlock their slot...

I cannot make a new HEAT/VEAT though.

Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix

Unlocking IOs in-game would be fine, unless it required doing something absurd like killing 1,000 heavies in RV every week.

Also, I can log into my Peacebringer. No idea if you drop from VIP though.

Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU

Well, cable TV *Does* carry the channels that are free to air... however without the UK TV License you are actually breaking the law and can risk the fine/criminal record.

Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU

Well, cable TV *Does* carry the channels that are free to air... however without the UK TV License you are actually breaking the law and can risk the fine/criminal record.



Just checked the Paragon Rewards Tree on Paragon Wiki... according to that HEATS/VEATS are NOT unlockable as a bonus (unlike Masterminds/Controllers).

They are strictly VIP/shop purchase access only.

Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood

Nope technically there is no unlock of EATs in the Parqagon Reward program. However there is an unintended situation where people who had EATs unlocked prior to Freedom generally got to keep it as a legacy unlock.

Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU

Shame that you currently cannot do that unless you subscribe or pay for the Archtype unlock (well, it is only 2000 points total, so the choice is yours )

Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU

Extend that thought a bit more: In the UK, you have to pay for a TV license to receive broadcast transmissions (if you have a TV and it isn't hooked up to the TV aerial, you don't need a license strictly speaking).

You paid for the TV (character slot unlock). However you are unable to watch anything on television because you haven't paid for the TV License (as i said, it is a rough analogy, because whilst in the UK you *can* do it, you do risk getting fined/going to court for watching live TV without a license).

Consoles/DVD players (non Mastermind/Controllers archtypes) are fine to hook up. But as soon as you want to watch the news on terrestrial TV (Controller/Mastermind lockout) you cannot.

I am sure that most US people are currently thinking "WTF, you have to pay to watch non cable/Satellite free to air TV shows on top of the cost of buying a TV?"

Originally Posted by TwilightPhoenix

Topic got busy while I slept. I forgot how much traffic these forums got.


So yeah, just a couple of quick things. First, if the entire payment model being able to function is hinging on a sole 160 point item... then there is something horribly, horribly wrong with the entire model. I don't buy that at all since I seriously doubt any company who is not totally retarded would not put all of their hopes and dreams of profit on a single feature of the game. (NCSoft may not be the best when it comes to marketing and PR, but I don't classify them as retarded either) There's several dozen things you get for free as a VIP besides IOs and there's tons of shiny stuff besides those to buy for Premiums. For example, I wanted staves forever. I just now noticed they existed and if I chose to stay as a Premium, it'd be something I'd buy at some point (along with the character slot for the new alt). In other words, even if they made IOs completely free (which, while I'd be happy, am not advocating), this game's revenue isn't even going to consider crashing and burning anytime soon.

Second, at whoever suggested just buy the points to get to Tier 7 up front, can I borrow $270 from you?

Third, I now recall a very good visual example of what CoX feels like on returning now. Basically, watch this video and in the second half of it, pretend the "player" is a returning premium. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_Z5N...ure=plpp_video It's SFW and funny, so even if you disagree you should at least get a laugh.

Originally Posted by SlickRiptide

If that was really true, then freemium as a model would fail, and clearly it is not a failure in the general industry. It would mean that the studio would have to follow a different revenue generation strategy than "let's break the game up into a set of 'systems' and then charge for access to those systems".

Freedom is almost a year old now, and I suspect that if we see any tuning done to it that we'll see it targeted to happen after that magical one-year milestone. In the meantime, the game is what it is.

I do think that the OP has some valid concerns but for now s/he has to just suck it up or play something else.

Originally Posted by GadgetDon

It's better, but I think it's only sneaking up on the problem.

The problem is that premium players, coming back to try the game, find their characters are incredibly underpowered due to effectively having no IOs, and the process to do something about that is time consuming and boring (and potentially wasteful). If the character build is mostly common IOs with just a few sets, that solves it, run and go, but if most of the powers are slotted with set IOs, it's the same problem - those powers effectively have no enhancements.

There are a couple of "simple" fixes that remove much of the demotivator aspect, let you log in, unlock your character and immediately jump in and have fun (and hopefully decide, yeah, I'm back to stay).

Simple Solution #1: Slotted IOs continue to function. You can't slot new IOs if you haven't unlocked the invention system, but the ones in your solution continue to function.

Simple Solution #1.1: The first time someone logs into Freedom, they're given a 30/60/90 day "license" that allows slotted IOs to function. When it runs out, the player must decide to buy Invention Licenses, replace enhancements, or leave the game. It kicks the unfun boring part back a while, so it's no part of the returning experience. UI question of how to explain it to the affected characters and show a countdown so players know when they have to fix things. It seems overly complex both from a coding standpoint and customer understanding basis, but if they are hide bound on "slotted IOs without invention license are completely disabled" gets around the entry experience problem.

Simple Solution #2: Slotted IOs degrade without the invention system, but not to nothing. Maybe they just drop to common IO level of boosting but all set bonuses/procs shut off, maybe they drop to SO value (single attribute enhances 33%, dual attribute enhances 16.5% for each attribute, triple attribute enhances 11% for each attribute). There's still an advantage to having an Invention License, but the characters are still playable and effective immediately.

The need (and having talked to a number of returning premium players trying out, yes, I'd call this a need) is that old characters are playable and not so weak and underpowered to not be fun without the unfun fixing process.

Given complete control, I'd go further. Reduce the tier at which IOs are permanently unlocked to Tier 6, maybe as low as tier 4. Or keep the IO unlock where it is, add another unlock at Tier 3 where you can use and slot IOs but not make them (so VIPs can make influence selling IOs in the auction house to premium players). The Invention system is such a core part of the game, stretching through the reward system of tasks and more, that it's more a demotivator to say "screw this, I'm outta here" than a motivator to say "Yes, I'll pay to get that."

But that's something on which reasonable people can disagree, and it is their game and their call. The only thing I'll say is absolutely broken is "a slotted IO enhancement is effectively like an empty slot" in terms of gameplay and encouraging returning players to stay.

Originally Posted by Pauper

Even with this discussion, I'm not seeing the benefit in providing free players access to a third build -- especially if you're also going to provide them access to common IOs. IO build/SO build is already a pretty obvious dividing point, and if you're going to be able to use common IOs for free, then IO set build/IO common build becomes the new divider. Not much point to have a third build just for SOs when you can slot common IOs as well.

I'd be OK with allowing free players access to common IOs, but not sure how feasible it would be to allow them to *create* common IOs -- I'd imagine it wouldn't be easy to bifurcate the Invention System so that some players have the ability to craft common IOs only while others have unlimited crafting options. If on the other hand, access to common IOs was added at the same level with access to the auction house, that would be fine, since free players would be able to get their IOs from consignment without needing to be able to craft them.

tl;dr: Don't see the point in allowing free players a third build. Sounds good to let free players buy IOs from Wentworths, but not to craft them.

--
Pauper

Originally Posted by Chyll

I meant tightening free access to the peripherals to inventions - storage capacity, auction slots, et al.

I failed to finish typing that sentence/thought. I agree with you and would not recommend any sort of leveling cap.

Originally Posted by Chyll

This got me wondering...

In theory, making access to inventions freely available and tightening free access levels some could drive incremental sales volume for things like inventory, storage, auction slots, etc. I wonder how the net would align with the current approach from a revenue perspective?

Originally Posted by SlickRiptide

I think the real question here is whether the invention system ought to be a service that costs you money.

I thought it was an interesting idea at first, but over time I've watched how that decision has impacted the gameplay experience of new and especially returning players. If it was indeed a good idea then the invention license would be seen as a motivator to sign up. In practice, this really doesn't seem to be the case. It appears to be a de-motivator, and I can see why it would be a de-motivator. Inventions are way more integral to a character than incarnate powers are. From the standpoint of existing players, they aren't going to feel "optional".

I don't know how much revenue is generated by invention licenses. Maybe it's a lot and that alone is justification enough. There are already so many other limitations in terms of inventory, incarnates, and character slots that I don't see that limiting inventions as well is really all that necessary. This game is the most alt-heavy game in the biz, and I'd think that the best way to get a returning player to subscribe or at least spend some money in the market is to give them a full game experience and encourage them to desire more character slots for alts.

A great deal of the Freedom setup is a big experiment, and I think maybe it's time to look at the results of the experiment and make some adjustments.

However, I'm just a player. I don't know the financials of the company. If they're making 20% of their revenue off of invention licenses then clearly that's actually working for them, no matter how much of a demotivating factor it might appear to be to some players.

Also, to the OP - One of the intentions of this setup is that you can't use inventions so you turn around and buy the inventions off of the market instead. Those sets ARE usable no matter your invention license status, as I understand things. They also scale with your character, or at least some of them do, so you don't spend money on something and then outlevel it right away. Then if you make an alt and you want to transfer the purchased set, you buy some unslotters and then mail your purchased IO's to the alt.

That's part of the intention. How well it's realized in practice I can't say.

Originally Posted by GadgetDon

From what Twilight says, you are correct. Worse, you are not warned of this before unlocking a character whose AT is not unlocked.

"You may unlock up to four characters, please pick one."

"I had fun with MyIllusionController, unlock him."

"You have unlocked MyIllusionController. MyIllusionController is not playable because the AT is locked. You may unlock up to three characters, please pick one."

Originally Posted by Gemini_2099

Since we are tossing out our opinions. The only people I know that are subbed as VIP do so because:

1. Incarnate Content
2. Free costumes

Other than that there is no reason to stay subbed.





There are serious flaws with this logic.

1. It doesn't take much time to make 2 IO builds and it doesn't indicate someone is a hardcore gamer.

2. You don't need to burn a lot of influence to make most IO builds.

3. I do not have 2 IO builds on my main. My primary is a non IO build, and my secondary is an IO build.

Originally Posted by TClauss

I totally agree with these feelings the op has felt returning.

Indeed we may be asking for a feature of the game to be free, but honestly it should be free. It's totally free after you have gained enough tokens. There should be a way for it to be obtained free (with some in game work, and if your premium, or used a retail code, something) by reward merits. Perhaps a 15 or 7-day license item would be best. Requiring you to earn it. That way its not as free as some ppl think it is. Just work out the reward merit pricing. So we have to Run Run Run Run those TF's.

I do think there is a lack of items to get with reward merits, and that system should be looked at. Especially for free player mass. I do feel that more people would then ViP after finding out how crazy powerful and fun IO build are to play and make. Its just about as fun as playing the character creator.

Originally Posted by Gemini_2099

I don't need to use a monthly license because an AR/Sonic Corruptor doesn't see much benefit from the IO system (my main). I have always had an SO/HO/SHO build, because it was more powerful in certain aspects than my second IO build.

Paying the monthly license is too steep for returning players that simply want to play.

Originally Posted by Mental_Giant

I'd like to see the 15 pages.