_Kuruth_

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There's an overall tone to most anti-PvP posts that names the PvPer as a jackhole and buttass. Given the general ire in your original post, perhaps I misread your overall stance on the issue.

As for the hue and cry on the boards, I think that's probably a case of extremist complaint. Most people just don't care. They check it out, decide if they like it and move on. They don't even think to check the boards for build advice; why would they feel the need to come here and comment?

I tried explaining the anti-PvP sentiment to a friend and he was completely boggled.

"Wait, I'm a bully?" he said.

He's my casual player barometer. Friggin' guy didn't even put SOs in most of his powers until level 30.

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Sounds like the kind of person I'd happily do a PvP game with.
But I've had the experience of newbie zone killers, zone entry killers, hospital griefers, and not even for tactical reasons or some kind of objective - just because they were more powerful than others and liked taunting people after the fact.

So I'm naturally a bit loathe to test the waters without up front info that efforts have been made to avoid the issues I'm familiar with.

I love head to head via LAN - UT, Homeworld, racing games, FPS, etc. You are challenging your friends. It can be great fun. I've just had really bad experiences with it online, and have learned from experience to avoid it.

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You know, that's a pretty wide brush you're painting with, my friend. Could you scale the bigotry back just a smidge to allow those who enjoy a casual bout of PvP but don't have jarring psychological issues some breathing room?

I mean, really. I've never even eaten a baby once.

As for communication, sure, you're right. They could say, "Hey, head in there to check it out, you'll be safe," but what about some small benefit of doubt that they're not totally insane and trying to get you ganked?

I'm willing to bet that the vast majority of people will get the mission and then just go check it out without a further thought.

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On the contrary, I'm being very specific. Are there people who like a little casual PvP out there? Absolutely. I specified the very particular people who I've experience first hand in other games who ruin it. At no point did I say everybody who does PvP is a jackass.

Besides. What's wrong with eating babies?

As for the Devs being up on setting things so that I won't get ganked on that intro mission...previous experience in other games. Repeated failures to implement good systems in other games. Could they? Maybe. But if they'd tell me how and what they've done FIRST before entering the zone...maybe I'd just enter the zone.

As for others taking the mission and being fine with it. Maybe. But given the hue and cry I'm seeing, I'm betting a lot of people are snapping back because a lot of previous bad PvP experience in other games, and because of missions like those I specified, even if they didn't express that point.

Understood. And keep in mind, I don't want ALL the information about every zone, but I do want all the information about how the PvP systems work and how they are different from a dozen other failed PvP tries I've seen or experienced first hand. If I have that information provided to me first, then I can make an informed decision about whether to access the content, rather than being told to go in without any real concept of what's going to happen from the systems. Experience is great, but not when I've been burned before - life has taught me to avoid MassMog PvP like a plague without getting a full run down of implementation. Which too many producers have made their players hunt for, rather than giving them the skinny up front. Exploring the visual/physical/antagonist design elements I'm all for, as long as I know how the PvP system will work.

That's why my reaction was strong - my previous exploration in other games has given me nothing but grief, so getting a no contact will give you anything but entry to a PvP zone is a hackles raising slap.

I also agree to some degree on the point of preconceived judgement, and I'll agree with you regarding some of the posters - but many of them aren't making totally baseless comments. They are using their previous experience from other games, like myself, in the absence of the Devs of this game providing an adequate amount of info to decide if they want to give this PvP system a try IN THE GAME. Its not like the trainers in the game don't already have dialogue options to explain certain key elements, a simple City Rep outside the PvP zones could answer a lot of people's questions. I'm not a forum regular, I play casually, but it was a rankle in presentation that made me come here.

If I had been sent to a character in Steel Canyon who told me about the safety timer, the safe zone, the basics of PvP implementation in the zone, I wouldnt have gotten angry, and I probably would've willingly tried the PvP zone with an understanding of what I was getting into. It doesn't matter how short a time it would actually take to deal with the PvP contact, its a matter that I was given no choice but to go, and the only info I had was signs on the entrance saying "Enter at your own risk - free fire zone", and the knowledge that my own experience in CoH is that there are missions that send you to a person who then gives you a mission - no ifs, ands, or buts.

With that kind of info, I'm going to balk. And so are a lot of other people. Especially when the reception from others is "Dont go in if you dont want to get sniped".

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The point is that you and everyone should try something before you complain about it.

Its like a 5 year old saying that he doesnt like a food when hes never tried it.

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Actually, the point is, I've tried PvP in MMoRPGs before, and I pretty much hate it. Or to be precise, I hate the people who flock to it because of inadequacy issues and bully complexes. Head to Head games can be great, but I've yet to be impressed with online implementation. The other point is, don't give me half (or less) of the information and then force me to go INTO the area that's defined purpose repels me to find out what you as a Dev THINK you have done to correct the issue.

Its about communication, respect for the customer and player preference. And the provider being aware of it, especially for those people who are casual players and not forum posters or readers.

All these things are wonderful points, if they were expressed in the mission write up. But they aren't. The end result is a mission statement that says go INTO the PvP zone. It doesn't say, there is a safe zone, There is a safety timer, It certainly doesn't say where the contact is, or this is Intro to PvP 101. Plenty of "Go talk to So & So" missions in this game simply give you a mission when you talk to the aforementioned So & So without asking further (a la Security Chiefs).

I'm glad you all provided this info, but its still a sore point in how its being presented.

They want to elucidate on the fine points of PvP to me, put a contact outside the PvP zones that can answer all my questions, not inside. I have a bad taste in my mouth from more than one game with PvP done wrong. My reaction is going to be strong. And if they want to show me the benefits, dont give me limited information and a shove, and a "You MUST go into this place to learn about it". Its poor design when it comes to presenting a completely divergent gameplay experience that has such negative history and connotations.

So I've seen the "I don't want to PvP" vs. "Its a PvP zone, don't enter it if you don't want to" endless back and forth.

I'm going to say my peace on this issue.

I don't particularly like PvP unless I know who I'm playing with. I've seen it lead to too much jack-[censored] behavior in an uncontrolled environment. BUT, if you want to keep it in a separate "You have a choice" zone, that's fine.

I play CoH to get a superhero fix and beat AI villains, follow a storyline, and play co-op with my friends.

Putting PvP in discrete zones made sense to me - if I don't like it, I'll stay out, but if I want to give it a try, there's where I go. That's OK with me.

Until Last Night.

Last night, I was playing, when my Contact showed me a potential mission - that REQUIRED me to go into a PvP zone.
There was no optional other mission...that was the ONLY mission that contact would provide. If I wanted to proceed with that contact in any way I would HAVE to enter a PvP zone.

Very irritated and disappointed, I went to my other contacts.
Ones whom I KNEW had other missions, since I had talked to them previously to see my options.

Surprise, every mission that they had previously been ready to offer me was gone - replaced by THE EXACT SAME PvP ZONE required mission.

I've seen endless PvPers on this board say, if you don't like it, don't enter a PvP zone. Guess what? When one has no choice but to enter a PvP zone, that off the cuff response holds no water.

EVERY contact I have will only give me a PvP zone mission. As someone who does not want to PvP, the PvE contacts are now FORCING me to enter a PvP zone, and I have no contacts that won't.

My ability to choose my style of play is being taken away from me.

So when I cancel my subscription, at least I've made myself perfectly clear. I hope the Devs read this, and give the PvEers back the ability to play the game they choose, and not force a type of unwanted online play upon them.

And that's all there is to it.

Oh, and don't bother flaming me or this post, these are the facts of my experience and my opinion. No browbeating or leet curse words will change them. The purpose is to make them known, and what you do with it from there is your concern, not mine.