Zahyl
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Posts
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Joined
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Silit I don't quite understand what league matches and practice matches have to do with TS and HD. It doesn't matter how big the map is, it's still controlled. There are no bases or drones, and there's a time limit and point count. Help me out here.
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Quote:TS is not perma unless they have some sort of toggle on you or you are placing it on yourself. People get away in RV all the time. If it were a scrapper, tank, or brute vs these two ranged adversaries, while they "pew pew" away at him giving him and them TS, they give the melee time to attack while they are caught in TS AND their animations. A melee can fight 2 ranged adversaries and put up quite a fight. Without TS it would just be them hopping over his head over and over again, completely removing his ability to fight back. This scenario is without web nades obviously, because if he webbed even one of them they would hightail it out of there.Originally Posted by hemmingway3
It is possible to survive a spike in zone, sure. Yet, if you are in no-phase and/or the spiking enemies have 2 or more targeting you, it is needlessly difficult to escape. Even one or two ranged enemies can permanently keep you in Travel Suppression.
Not all tankers are like Bruteshock and just stand there because they know they can't get kills. Your little team of 10 villains with blasters and debuffers can take him out sure, but are there any other heroes in this zone? What a sad little example you made. No line of defenders for a tank to break? You literally JUST said it is either basecamping or being basecamped. Let's ignore the huge push and battle in the middle of the zone childishly and focus on how that is exactly what a tank can break into. The ground for them to stand? Wherever the hell they want to stand.Quote:Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Now, one should not have to be a super-fast, ranged character to feel "super." One should be able to make a monolith of a character, a metaphorical mountain, who is immovable, unable to be defeated by physical assault. This kind of character does exist. I have seen many tankers in RV who can literally stand still and take the assault of 10 or more villains without appearing to take any harm. Yet, what does one do with such a character? Surely they must be able to be defeated; a team full of blasters and debuffers can bring such a tank down. This kind of role has no purpose in CoH PvP, as it stands. There is nothing for them to defend, no ground for them to stand, no line of defenders for them to break. Instead, all we have is Death Match.
You guys stick to your guns with the damage spam, but you disregard so many things and oversimplify it. There is much more to zone than you take for granted. -
I zone a lot, and have a lot of fun with it. Breaking out of basecamp is only the first step. Playing solo as something that isn't a stalker isn't as difficult as you would think unless there is a skilled spike team against you. TS isn't perma, you are only suppressed for a small amount of time before you are given your chance to escape. Damage spam isn't an automatic win in zone either. Psi/em blasters die, KM/Regins die, everyone does. Even coordinated teams lose members in fights. The flow of battle is unpredictable. There is much more to factor in than just damage spam. You either need a deeper perception or more experience in zone to know that.
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Quote:I made a couple points earlier in this thread against the removal of both of these. I stated that HD and TS can be removed from Arena too. Something that should be considered is that Arena and Zone shouldn't have the same rules and effects. It is a warzone, as opposed to a controlled map with controlled teams. Zone is unpredictable and merciless. It embraces both solo players as well as teams. Even with TS spike targets can escape. TS is required for such a huge area of play to lessen the effectiveness of hit and run. It forces you to stay in an engagement. When someone puts some distance between you and them in zone, they are gone. TS gives you a chance to retaliate. If TS supports coordinated teams that's great, but it also supports the solo player.Originally Posted by hemmingway3
Valid, sound, and logical reasons have been provided for the past several years to support the removal of TS and HD. They were provided in i13 beta, after i13 release, and every time after that when someone saw fit to discuss the topic. That includes this thread. Further, in order to fully answer the question posed by Zwillinger, reasons why TS and HD should not be removed do have to be provided. If they are not provided but do exist, the community's interests may not be fully represented by the Community team. If they are not provided because they do not exist, then the only issue is that the Devs haven't removed those mechanics yet. It doesn't matter if opinions and personal preferences provide logical proof because arguments have been made based upon fact and sound reasoning already.
Savvy?
Another thing I want to bring up is I don't think removing these 2 features will balance everything out. Things like DR and mezzes would need an adjustment as well. A straightout removal would only complicate things. There needs to be a more wholesome solution.
I'm not sure exactly how many people have posted against TS and HD here on this thread, but I would suspect if you asked about it in RV on Freedom people wouldn't be so inclined for their removal. They have adjusted to it, with their builds and tactics. I've been playing since I11, I have adjusted easily to every change made. -
Maybe the devs don't take you guys seriously on the forum because all you guys ever do is attack eachother? I'm only new to the forum, not the game. I thought it would be fun to hop on here and debate, yet all I see are a bunch of arrogant, bitter players whose main points have been simply that it is a bad mechanic, with no facts or ideas supporting their idea.
How can the devs take you guys seriously when all you can do is scream and call people names? -
Nerf CS for scrappers and the problem is solved. TS should still remain. Warkupo makes a good point about HD. It has a desirable effect on players that spam greens consecutively, but it really does hamper an emps attempts at saving an ally. But how much damage should a spike target be allowed to survive with emp heals? Without HD it's extremely difficult to kill your spike target if the enemy emp is focused on him. In zone with a large enough burst you can bring an emped enemy down.
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Without TS melee toons would be completely worthless. Without HD AND TS fenders or cors with a spammable heal would never die. TS and HD balance zone PvP. These features make perfect sense. Of course people won't like them, but most of these people fail to understand their importance.
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I support both of these mechanics, simply because they can be removed for Arena and have significant effects on zone PvP. Removing them for weak reasoning such as "it is unwanted" would not be a wise decision.