Areimus
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I agree with you on this. While I'm certainly no math wiz (I majored in Math but I still don't consider myself a math wiz by any means), it's common knowledge that the more chances you add to something, you'll have greater chance of success...whether it be in procs, the lottery, etc.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
I think it's a mistake to think of procs in caltrops from a strictly dps point of view. Caltrops is in no way going to be a good dps power. The procs are better thought of as burst damage potential. At cast and every ten seconds, you have a percentage chance for a burst of extra damage. More procs increase that chance quite a bit.
That said, I can totally understand your thinking. The procs are nice to have, but not necessary in the least. The power is awesome out of the box.
When I hit level 50 and obtain enough infamy to afford the build I posted, I'll check on my endurance usage and see if 2/2 Posi's Blast is all that necessary. If I find that it isn't, you can most certainly bet I'll be loading Caltrops with the procs mentioned above plus either a slow or the knockdown. While a knockdown is less reliable than slow since on a proc basis, a knockdown takes what? 4-5 seconds or more to recover from plus they are still stuck in the same spot. Anyways, too many "IF/Thens" in the post - time to start leveling up and put this information to practice!
Thank you for the clarification. I thought you meant 'nab 2 slots from X' and put it into Caltrops. Misread/Misunderstood what you had said.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Oh, I wasn't suggesting two more slots - just speaking in general. If you have two extra slots in a build - any build - for the two damage procs in caltrops, they're nice to have.
In you're case, you've got room for one extra slot for a damage proc, with two for enhancing the power. I wouldn't change anything with your build at this point beyond what you just mentioned. -
Wow, I never expected an "evaluate my build" post to go this far. There is plenty of good information on this thread...not just for me but for anyone that's looking for ideas on their nin/nin build.
Quote:Joe, I love your ideas/usage of Caltrops and thank you for doing some fairly extensive math on it. However, I think that for my purposes, I'd strictly use Caltrops as mitigation tool. While it does have the potential to do some decent damage, it's overall damage output severely drops as there are less mobs to hit. Secondly, while I've never been in a high-end Task Force, I can only assume that an extra ~6 dps on a mob (especially when it's Boss-level or higher) is mostly negligible; I would think that playing "keep away" with the mobs to mitigate incoming damage not only to myself but to anyone else that I may have teamed with is far more important than the dps component. That being said, I certainly think that I could re-slot Caltrops with 2 Posi's Blast - Damage/Recharge and Chance for Energy Damage. I'd then slot an Endurance/Recharge/Slow. As long as I can double-stack Caltrops, that's all the damage output I need from it or so I think. I was also thinking that the extra 2.5% Recovery from 2/2 Posi's Blasts would be beneficial as opposed to a chance get a proc. However, to counter that point - I suppose the more overall damage that you are dishing out to a mob, whether it be 1 or an entire group means less overall endurance used due to less powers being activated over time. Hmm.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
EDIT - I have a headache now from all that math.
I forgot to mention this: Most fights will not last twenty to thirty seconds unless you play at the higher difficulties. You can expect higher than 2.8 dps, however. Calculating on a 60% chance of a single proc firing, you've got 4.2 additional dps to add to the 1.39 dps already provided by caltrops for a total of 5.59-6.98 extra dps, depending on whether or not caltrops is stacked. Not a great deal, given Flashing Steel's 48-ish DPS (for example), but considering caltrops' dismal dps without them and those two extra slots - if they can be afforded (and on that build I'd argue that they can) make the difference between an excellent mitigation power and an excellent mitigation power with offensive potential.
- Now allow me to pose a question to you - where do you suggest that these 2 slots be taken from without losing valuable set bonuses, recharge time perhaps, damage perhaps? I like to think that the set bonuses benefit the entire build as a whole. Focusing on making Caltrops output 1 or 2 more dps to lose something else (I can't quantify it because it depends where you took it out of lol) seems counter productive, if you look at the build as a whole, don't you think?Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
but considering caltrops' dismal dps without them and those two extra slots - if they can be afforded (and on that build I'd argue that they can)
What are your thoughts? -
Wow, thank you everyone for the great information. Please note for the build I'm going to post, I didn't change Sting of the Wasp to Gambler's Cut though I did read Zem's post about it's DPA. Thank you very much for the info.
Here is hopefully my final build. I had to take out 1 slot from Kujin-Sha so I lost about 3% to it's heal and about 1.5-1.8 seconds on it's recharge time to make it all work.
Code:Now I checked into seeing if I can lessen Hasten's recharge time. If I slot an extra recharge IO, it brings it's recharge time to 133.74 seconds which I'm satisfied with as I can't seem to bring it any lower. In order to do this though, I had to remove 1 recharge IO from Kujin-Sha which brought it's recharge time to 71.14 instead of ~60 (w/2 recharge IOs). I think this is an acceptable loss since the duration of Sha is 120 seconds.| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1593;785;1570;HEX;| |78DAA593594F534114C767BA58BBD196B674612B3B1628346AE2F260A268A250402| |B6A00A9177A856AD3366D89F2E607F089179EDCA208B83C1A8D3EF93DFC0AA2717B| |51AC679952923E7AD3FE7FF79E3973E6CC993389BBA30E21EE9D12D27926AB954AA| |96459CBDED68B9609ADBC52D4B2C222840829632AA167753D3691C9DDD252C93BF9| |623A581D19D56FEAB9128F65CAA515CFF9DCB25ED473E558F5C53195CF6763E3BA5| |6C8E4966CF4912CE87ADA49AFE7324BCB651868A4AFCBB04E215F2C6BE54C3E173A| |5BC82CC64EE7D3ABA984562AEBC5D56A9241C8ED28FC37AC423D15B3B801880B83C| |65800F489C645FA6A4C13863E1A84F08AB1DA2C83F04B1C719824BA3758099BE020| |5558F9DB800E0DBB84B6BF84EE3F8C0AE1D00EA0558CC32C234DAB188D1CD6E463B| |8096D5EC216F8995574F30CA579609631473838CFB84EB0A508DB30CBC2B34C96A7| |B4AEED11C1F198107C48883F01F84402DCAD2A192B27E3E6E5DB38A75ECEA90962D| |AD94FDA3F5184E15D81DB09C088931714CE7EAADF0B08EA6293740D90C9CD988411| |0F87111E36BDB462AD2525ECE5B3F1F1D9F816084D7C364D7C3653E0EEE7D846FFA| |4C40C3AA6186394693441E884B402BC9221E001988C22C82BF6325E41A490AA6F88| |EB1BE6FA86B9BE2D5CD8162E7394EB2B216EB3DA6E73980219C1D4AA6AD31AA05CB| |A8284D7B044BB5AA29D1B24C20D12E1068970837454A83354835C82599DEA083BBF| |D16EBA7E307E11BABF13FA7E1226C0BD47B569CF1BCA28FA8E30FC966086EDF7AB2| |CFAB7B915B708839B84A1E78C0DEE8C67040BCC1A50051C5867F735039660F00275| |BF09B61D530E316E9D61EE9938F74C12121B51A51A618716D3DE95821F3C627CBFA| |5838FD8B477AD84E4B36AAE79FDD7F3DE518D63BD68034DA24CA35C45B986328332| |8B3287328F9242A97CD89BED3A86091D4739817212C5EF06B98F9E163B881DC581E| |244694071A1B851BC2861940728152B4C36AA1D7E861852DD12394405D8D96FE25B| |F6A56692F20A5FD669C2D7DA8841AED1D1F5ADD375EF8BD0D491BA6388D659E2759| |6237596C375965AA9FF0131CE2AFA| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Alright and that's it for me. I'll be checking back on this post for any replies to see if there are other recommendations or if I overslotted for something again. I just hope that this is the last time I have to change around this build. lol
P.S. Please note my set bonus totals (in Mids). Overall compared to my previous build posted above, EVERYTHING has gone up. I'm very happy with this build and while I can't expect to have a ideal build, I feel this is feels pretty darn close to my playstyle - all made possible with everyone's advice.
Areimus -
Quote:-By my count, I have 5. I've done alot of research on ParagonWiki and happened to stumble across the "Rule of 5" mechanic. I'll double check the build when I get home from work but thank you for pointing this out, if I do have 6.Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Before I start, a side note: Since the link didn't work, it took FOREVER to recreate your build in Mid's. Next time export the data chunk, if you wouldn't mind.
-Please forgive me for this. My build was my first attempt at creating an IO build as well as exporting to a forum. I'll remember to post the data chunk for next time.
Overall it's a good build. I'll take the critique a step at a time starting with your level 2 power.
Before I do that, however, I want to point out that you have six LoTG +recharges. Isn't the sixth one wasted?
-Perhaps the DPA might be a bit higher but I read that Sting of the Wasp is overall better for dps. I think they were saying that if you get your recharge times low enough, that GC will sit idle for awhile and that's wasteful. (I have not put this to practice myself as I have yet to test this build out myself.) I highly agree with you on the extra changes to proc Achilles' Heel due to lower recharge. Thank you for the tip.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Okay, starting with Sting of the Wasp: It's not a bad choice, but I'd really recommend going with Gambler's Cut instead. The dpa is better, and the lower recharge and activation will give you far more chances to proc that achilles' heal. Just a thought.
Good suggestion but I think I'll slot for the extra ranged defense. There are alot of mobs that will use ranged attacks while in melee so that extra 8% to ranged over the 1% in melee.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Zem already covered Hide/Danger sense slotting, but let me just add to that by saying that if you're going to go light on one defense position, I'd pick melee over ranged any day on a nin/nin. Divine Avalanche will fill any holes in your melee defense.
So take Focused Accuracy instead of Superior Conditioning? Sounds good. I thought the extra endurance would be ok. How do you suggest I slot Build Up then? Looking at ParagonWiki, I think 5/6 Gaussian's will yield the best results. I may pick up Adjusted Targeting but will have to check how many Recharge +5% bonuses I have when I get home. If I already have 5, I'll go with Gaussian's to pick up the extra Recovery bonus and Melee Damage bonus.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
I can see why you have the Gaussian's set in Build Up, but when you've already taken the body mastery pool in the first place, it just seems like a waste not to take focused accuracy and put those slots in there. You'll have increased perception and accuracy, but more importantly the build-up proc will have the chance to fire three times more often than putting it in Build-Up, because you'd be putting it in a toggle. You could either replace superior conditioning with it or teleport friend.
Glad I checked into this. Found out Crushing Impact is 5% Recharge time so I can actually benefit from the 6.25%. Perhaps that will allow me to bring down the recharge time in Hasten without having the 3 slots. Thanks for pointing this out.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Hasten: You've devoted three slots to recharge, here. When two level 50 IO's will put you over ED limits that third slot is more or less going to waste. Might I suggest putting it in Blinding Powder for a fifth Malaise's Illusions IO? That will give you an extra 6.25% Recharge time.
- I think I had 3 slots to recharge as it lowered the cooldown by another 30 seconds. I think I brought the cooldown from 1000 seconds to 301.something. However, I agree with you that the Slow Resistance may yield better results.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Kuj-in Retsu: Again, you've devoted three slots to recharge when you only really need two. I'd suggest dropping a Winter's Gift: Slow Resistance in that last slot.
It's more-so an endgame build but doesn't mean I can't change around some slots. I'll certainly think about this.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Is this an end game build or will you be planning to exemp for strike forces? If the latter is true then you might run into some slotting issues. For example, you're really going to want more than one slot in Kuj-in Sha before level 34.
- My build was pretty tight on slots as is. Do you suggest that I put Caltrops where Retsu is right now and Retsu instead of Recall Friend? For the slotting in Caltrops, what do you think if I went with 3/3 Positron's Blast (I'd include Chance for Energy damage) and 1 Recharge IO? Or should I try for 3 recharge IO and Positron's Blast, chance for Energy damage? Again, I'd have to go back to the drawing board with Mids to rearrange my slots and see how many I have left.Quote:Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
Recall Friend: Okay, I'll admit it - /nin builds that don't take caltrops irk me. Why on earth would you take a situational power like Recall Friend when you could have taken an I Win button like caltrops? Seriously, when used correctly, it cuts your incoming melee damage in HALF. Just throw the patch down after your alpha and the placate, and then STAND on the thing while you pwn everyone else in the spawn, who - by the way - will be too busy trying to get off the caltrops to mount any meaningful counter-offensive. Fully franken-slotted for recharge and slow and filled out with damage procs, it is stackable and can kill minions outright all by itself! Take that power and profit, dammit!
Sorry for the long response but just wanted to make sure that I'm getting the most bang for my buck out of this build. -
Ah ok. Thank you for the clarification Zem. I totally forgot about the defense values being reduced as soon as Hide is suppressed. I'll go back to 1 slot in Hide and 4 slots in Danger Sense. My bad.
Aside from that, did you have a chance to review the build overall? -
Hi everyone,
I've been trying to work on a good build for a Nin/Nin Stalker. Didn't realize that evil_tim had already posted a nin/nin build a few threads before mine.
Anyways, if anyone could please evaluate the build below and advise if I could make any changes, that would be greatly appreciated.
Here's the build:
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.90
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Ninja Blade
Secondary Power Set: Ninjitsu
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Teleportation
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Sting of the Wasp- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
- (3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (3) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (19) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (19) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (46) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (13) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (15) Gift of the Ancients - Defense: Level 40
- (31) Gift of the Ancients - Run Speed +7.5%: Level 40
- (A) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
- (15) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (31) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
- (42) Armageddon - Chance for Fire Damage: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (5) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (31) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
- (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (7) Touch of Death - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (9) Touch of Death - Damage/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (9) Touch of Death - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (11) Touch of Death - Chance of Damage(Negative): Level 40
- (A) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Chance for Build Up: Level 50
- (11) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff: Level 50
- (13) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge/Endurance: Level 21
- (42) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Endurance: Level 50
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - To Hit Buff/Recharge: Level 21
- (46) Gaussian's Synchronized Fire-Control - Recharge/Endurance: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (17) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Blessing of the Zephyr - Knockback Reduction (4 points): Level 50
- (48) Kismet - Accuracy +6%: Level 30
- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (17) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (25) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 50
- (21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (21) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (23) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (23) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 50
- (A) Doctored Wounds - Heal: Level 30
- (34) Doctored Wounds - Recharge: Level 30
- (34) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance: Level 50
- (43) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Recharge: Level 50
- (43) Doctored Wounds - Heal/Endurance/Recharge: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (40) Recharge Reduction
- (A) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage: Level 40
- (27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Endurance: Level 40
- (27) Crushing Impact - Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (29) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 40
- (29) Crushing Impact - Accuracy/Damage/Endurance: Level 50
- (45) Achilles' Heel - Chance for Res Debuff: Level 20
- (A) Accuracy IO: Level 50
- (A) Steadfast Protection - Resistance/+Def 3%: Level 30
- (36) Steadfast Protection - Knockback Protection: Level 30
- (A) Obliteration - Damage: Level 50
- (33) Obliteration - Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (33) Obliteration - Accuracy/Damage/Recharge: Level 50
- (33) Obliteration - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (34) Obliteration - Chance for Smashing Damage: Level 50
- (42) Eradication - Chance for Energy Damage: Level 30
- (A) Malaise's Illusions - Accuracy/Recharge: Level 50
- (36) Malaise's Illusions - Accuracy/Endurance: Level 50
- (36) Malaise's Illusions - Accuracy/Confused/Recharge: Level 50
- (37) Malaise's Illusions - Endurance/Confused: Level 50
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (39) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (43) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (50) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 50
- (45) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 40
- (45) Miracle - +Recovery: Level 40
- (A) Luck of the Gambler - Recharge Speed: Level 50
- (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense: Level 50
- (48) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance: Level 40
- (50) Luck of the Gambler - Defense/Endurance/Recharge: Level 40
- (A) Range IO: Level 50
Level 1: Brawl- (A) Empty
- (A) Endurance Reduction IO: Level 50
- (A) Recharge Reduction IO: Level 50
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift- (A) Run Speed IO: Level 50
- (A) Jumping IO: Level 50
- (A) Numina's Convalescence - +Regeneration/+Recovery: Level 50
- (39) Numina's Convalescence - Heal: Level 50
- (A) Performance Shifter - EndMod: Level 50
- (40) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End: Level 21
- (40) Endurance Modification IO: Level 50
Set Bonus Totals:- 13.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 13.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 6.125% Defense(Smashing)
- 6.125% Defense(Lethal)
- 4.25% Defense(Fire)
- 4.25% Defense(Cold)
- 4.25% Defense(Energy)
- 4.25% Defense(Negative)
- 3% Defense(Psionic)
- 9.25% Defense(Melee)
- 5.5% Defense(Ranged)
- 5.5% Defense(AoE)
- 4% Enhancement(Heal)
- 2.5% Enhancement(Confused)
- 57% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 62.5% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 15% FlySpeed
- 108.43 HP (9.006%) HitPoints
- 15% JumpHeight
- 15% JumpSpeed
- Knockback (Mag -8)
- Knockup (Mag -8)
- MezResist(Held) 2.75%
- MezResist(Immobilize) 9.35%
- MezResist(Stun) 4.4%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 2.2%
- 8.5% (0.142 End/sec) Recovery
- 42% (2.111 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 1.26% Resistance(Fire)
- 1.26% Resistance(Cold)
- 22.5% RunSpeed