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I can tell you right now that there were a total of two respected VGs in i12 (Renegades, and GMW - both of which held the #1 and # 2 spots).
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Except for the above quote I really have no opinion as to any of the rest of this 'conversation'. (I left during I13 closed beta when I felt the pvp game was destroyed.)
Back to the point, let's not kid ourselves... there was Renegades, and everyone else.
GMW never beat them. Not once in 3+ officials that I recall.
So to say "the only 2 respectable vgs were Rens and GMW" is an arbitrarily odd line to draw.
Was GMW the closest to ever beat them? maybe.
One of their officials went 5 rounds against Rens... I think that was your argument?
Then again one of UJL's officials against them went 4 rounds. Had we had one more draw, would we have been considered 'respectable'? I didn't think so.
UJL was notorious(ly bad) for winning a close round by 1 or 2, and then getting wrecked in the next round by 14-0 or 13-1 (actual scores!) This happened with both Rens and GMW, and we had 2 draws against Rens in one official (0-0 and 2-2).
I'll never disagree (along with Hellora I think) that UJL was at no time ever really in contention for first place in I12. Renegades and GMW consistently saw to that. To think we believe otherwise is a common mistake of the so-called arena elites. We just didn't take ourselves as seriously as those guys did.
But then what of DR, Freaks/Bloodline, lolVirtue, VR-C, who we beat consistently?
So were those pvp vgs even more un-respectable?
In other words, to call UJL a 'bad pvp vg' just because we were consistently middle of the pack doesn't make much sense...
[u]The *real* reason we were bad[u] (pay attention now, this is a little known fact) was because we were mainly a pve vg who recruited random pve'ers into our vg, tried to convince them to arena practice with us, which resulted in a roster of arena players putting little to no effort in anything that didn't involve farming.
If you go back and look at our (mostly) joke of a roster of unrecognizable names (including mine), it's pretty damn undeniable, and a fluke as to how we managed to do so well consistently.
Well, for a 'bad pvp vg' anyways.
shini: badger.
barrier: avid pve'er who we met while he trashtalked in RV with his group of 'frads'.
mel: nuff said.
me: french. When's the last time the french were expected to win anything?
rokur: wtf is a rokur?
Anyway, tldr version: the only respectable pvp vg was renegades. GMW was just another group they trounced, just like everyone else. That's just fact.
Signed:
Another guy you've never heard of.
