Another_Fan

Expectation is the key here. If you went to a restaurant and weren't served in a timely fashion, I doubt you would react well to the argument you were acting overly entitled. And before we go to the argument that the market is not a restaurant true but this is not advertised as a market game but a superhero game.

Back to the flipper, in general they try to hit the maximum price point where they can achieve total sell through in their time horizon. With AE tickets an option its really hard to argue that they reduce volatility on the upside anymore ( N.B. I am not saying this was ever a valid argument )

Arguing hard ?

It is kind of sad though, that you think no one would argue for something if it wasn't a direct personal issue of theirs


And you fail to understand why I find this forum so incredibly funny ?

You have people that come here to play a fantasy/superhero game. They get here and find the bottleneck to playing the game is a poorly implemented trading game that sits on top of it.

Then as a cherry on the cake you have people who enjoy the market game, and actually require people to come into and do badly at it, boldly asserting that its the only way to do things.

Weren't you the one that asserted ad hominem = fail ? But please why don't you show where you have used mathematics here.

Lets take your example that item has QTY X items that enter the market at a price of around 1 million. The flipper removes a percentage of X and turns them into items that are now priced around 2 million.

If the hypothetical end user (defined as someone who is going to remove supply from the market and not return the exact same item to the market) wants to buy the item, the pool of items at the low price is whatever is left from the flippers. They can either try to monitor the price to detect the flippers price points, or just pay a much higher price.

The flipper has raised the price, and or wasted the buyers time.

Vs
I know you are going to be unable to make the distinction but that wasn't about your point it was about your method of argument.

Indeed.




My personal fun isn't the issue. What repeatedly happens is that people rightly or wrongly perceive the market as being an impediment.

LOL Maybe ??

you have as yet to use either

Vs


Yeah I really latched on to that. I latched onto that so hard I even noted it wasn't relevant.


Demonstration outweighs remonstration. So far you have failed to demonstrate this.

So far you have made misstatements, claiming that they were part of some clever plan of yours, argued via nonsensical picture, and made statements that you can't backup in response to challenge.

Just who is holding their hands over their ears and shouting here ?



Feet: get you where you are going.

Game = fun
Paying for game = expected to yield fun.



Not as much fail as missing the point that I'm not talking about going to work. Maybe once that penetrates...


By this point you have shown you have absolutely 0 reading comprehension but once again show me where I have ever asked or asserted that a marketeer should modify their game play.



Yes I am certain it is easier for you to just make things up and then say that when called on it.

Seriously see a specialist. First you are saying things that are wrong and believing that people noticing constitutes a win for you. Now you are stating that not being able to back up your claims constitutes a win.



LOL and I am sure you would be if it weren't

A flipper lowers the availability low priced goods and raises the supply of higher priced goods. Their action raises prices.

Nothing it was a reply to



Just some replies

#1) See my rebuttal to #'s 2 and 3, as it is now fairly well settled that the correct statement is that flippers don't generally raise prices above the equilibrium price

The original and nearly religious stand on this forum was "Flippers don't raise prices" There have been endless threads with people trying to prove it.

#2) That is not the definition of equilibrium price

That was the fallout of the terms used by Smurphy in his challenge. Do you claim to have forgotten this brickbat that had been used on everyone who complained that flippers raise prices ?


#4) I can't refute this, as I never did the analysis.

#5) I've never seen an argument that made sense for me why tradeable ones are better. I don't remember seeing one from you, and you seem to have one, so I'd be interested in hearing it. (A different thread wouldn't be a terrible idea, though.)

My argument was pretty simple, tradeable merits offer players greater choice in how they use or don't use their merits.

#6) I don't understand the term "reverse merits". Typo for reserve? Trading merits? I think maybe I'm missing the context or full statement here.

comma left out: Giant reverse, "Merits should be traded".

#7) Is your opinion, and it's not in line with what a lot of people in game are doing. Pay attention to people's set bonuses. The forums are not neccessarily a good sample population for what the broader player base thinks the game is about.

On this we can only agree to disagree or start throwing anecdotes at each other.

#8) There's no resurgance of this, because it's never gone away. I still believe firmly that it's true. You're the one that's claimed in the past that people who don't exhibit market aptitude skills actually lack the capacity to do so, a position I find vastly more insulting than the one that they don't have enough interest to do so, or have an overactive sense of entitlement.

Actually the exact position I took was because it is easy for you don't assume it is easy for others. Resurgence refers to its use as a talking point.

Oh please you said something obviously wrong, I pointed it out and moved on to the larger fallacies in your argument, then you proclaimed "it was all part of your grand plan". Otay.

I corrected your misstatement. It shows I actually read and tried to understand your miasma of a post.

If you feel that people actually reading what you write and correcting the factual errors proves you correct you are seriously in error.

It is pretty obvious you don't understand the metaphor you are trying to use.

Lets try to make it a little bit more clear

Ferrari = Fun
Yugo != Fun (well for most people)
Waiting around forever to get IOs != Fun
Going to work != Fun

This is entertainment, entertainment = FUN, Entertainment != Going to work (for most people)

Comparing going to work to the game = FAIL

Hope that helps.

[/quote]
In this game FUN is a SUBJECTIVE term.

I had fun tonight in PVP on my SoA Bane. Got the living **** kicked out of me. But still had fun. My build is NOT set up for PVP. In fact, it isn't even laid out with a full set of standard IOs. I have two partial sets in there. 4 Red Fortune and 3 Kinetic Crash. Everything else is either SO or common IO.

You're essentially arguing that YOU cannot have fun unless you have a pimped-out build. And you're ******** about the fact that you can't get it for cheap.

My sympathy for you is something less than a tau muon.[/quote]

No I am saying many people are repeatedly saying they aren't having fun. You just are pointedly not listening.

And once again

Show me where I said

"You're essentially arguing that YOU cannot have fun unless you have a pimped-out build. And you're ******** about the fact that you can't get it for cheap."


Seriously do you have a reading/learning disability or do you just get off attributing things people didn't say to them.

Actually I have it.

I really don't know how to convey the incredible levels of bemusement I glean from these forums or the dread when I wonder what similar belief systems I may have inadvertently subscribed to.

Lets look at some of the "beliefs" that have been held on this forum.

1. Flippers don't raise prices

2. Flippers can't raise prices above the equilibrium price profitably (equilibrium price defined as the point where it is no longer profitable to
try and raise prices beyond)

3. Flippers can't raise prices above the equilibrium point profitably for long.

4. The random roll is a better deal than the direct purchase (At the time you would actually lose about 3k/merit if you went with random rolls over specific purchase and that was just considering the pool C universe)

5. The devs got it right merits should not be tradeable (coincidentally what this does is dump items into the hands of people who don't know what their real value, especially true if they are taking the random roll)

6. When supply dried up, giant reverse merits should be traded. (Coincidentally would have benefitted greatly people with multiple accounts or the ability and desire to create level locked characters to hit particular niches.

6, was like watching scenes from 1984, when the very people who had been so enamored of 5 did an about face and the board chimed in like a cadre of Rush Limbaugh ditto heads to go along with it.

7. You don't need ios or sets to play the game. Maybe so but its what the game is about these days.

8. Now we are back at a resurgence of the, if you don't like/want/have an aptitude to play the market mini game well you are lazy stupid and have a giant sense of entitlement. This one crops up periodically its a little chilling. Usually its in response to someone who posts that they aren't having fun in the game and they feel rightly or wrongly that the market is the cause.

Then we come to this thread "Are we that hated"

If you feel the need to ask the answer is probably yes.

The marketeers are insecure about what has become a situation where the tail (market mini game) wags the dog.

Ive seen you play Cosmic Rae, I wouldn't brag about knowledge of how to play a blaster if I were you.

Yes it is just wrong. It is repeatedly infinitely incredibly wrong. Driving into work is a forced activity that you do because you have to, this is a game that you play because you want to.

This is a game, FUN is a necessity.



Raging ? I think you are still upset about losing at tic tac toe.

I really don't know what would qualify as coherent to a man who thinks having things he said as being wrong constitutes some major victory and thinks see I have drawn a picture constitutes argument.

Still waiting for you to show where I said "I want what I want and I want it now". in the context of the game.

What isn't mentioned in that is you need to have a pretty good idea what the price range on the salvage/recipe/etc is and have a solid grasp on its volatility. If its not the kind of thing you look in on regularly it can be difficult to pull off in any kind of reasonable time frame.

Its OK Pee Wee

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJXU7EVXs2A

This isn't a discussion about blasters so lack of knowledge doesn't matter.

I can see reading comprehension is difficult for you, so I will take this slowly.

No one drives the game into work

The game is not a utility device.

It is entertainment.

In this context a Ferrari is entertaining a Yugo is not.

Second just to refine your ability to actually read what is written find where I said "I want what I want and I want it now".

And on the whole need vs want situation I will observe that people with the most ridiculously IOed builds complain that the game is too easy, and its completely playable with generic SOs. One recently complained about playing on a TF where everyone was twinked out to the point of being able to solo it. The obvious solution was to use an alternate build on his toon that wasn't.

So obvious hypocrisy ftw ?

The flipside of that is this is nominally entertainment. If watching grass grow and paint dry are entertaining to you then you might find being patient waiting for bids to fill equally enjoyable.



1st there is no blaster that can one shot an even con or higher bosses unaided even at the damage cap blizzard won't do it (assuming all the ticks actually hit and the boss stays still for the whole 15 seconds)

Now back to the actual points

The game is balanced around 1 hero = 3 even con minions. Or some such equally enjoyable point.

That isn't a Ferrari its a Yugo.

Patient get to that next, but intelligent ????? Not So Much.

Its more a question of

1. They don't care about playing a particular character.

2. They don't play that much

3. They don't particularly require that item.

Now as to patience

Well if you enjoy playing a squishy slow tank, an incredibly breakable blaster that spends alot of time resting, or a glacially moving defender its pretty easy to be patient. Or if you already have other characters that are well equipped and the one that is being patient is just a new project, its pretty easy to tell people to be patient.

I am definitely hording mine. It started out just as uncertainty how to best use them. Later it was just a case of it being easier to come up with inf than to use merits. Now I have so many of them it would be a real pain to try and clean them out and I have no real need to anyway.

FWIW in terms of the Market this is true.

But then I again I have been laughing like a maniac at getting bankers to "improve" the banking system* or lawyers to "Reform" the legal system.


Edit: The funny thing is banking has always been set up as a system where the banker can't lose, but somehow they managed to ????

1st defeating mobs produces inf +drops, all high prices do is increase the value of drops. If market prices are high for you to purchase other peoples drops they will be high for you to sell your drops.

So High Prices don't decrease your earnings they only change where your income will come from. If you want to vendor your drops (not recommended as I keep seeing in the tips that appear when I zone into missions) you will do badly. But vendoring that hamidon goo was never a good idea.

Two there is no need to add things to remove inf unless you want prices to go down.

First, the market removes inf continously and at some overall price point will reach an equilibria where the inf being generated is equal to the inf being removed by transaction fees, and crafting costs.

Second Most of the schemes presented overwhelmingly help people that have lots of inf stored, either on alts or in bids however. Inflation devalues their hoarded inf by forcing them to pay more for other peoples drops.

The need for more worthwhile things in the game is a separate issue. I would ask why are there so many narrow specialty recipes like confuses and sleeps and so few targeted AOE recipes ? Why are there so many crappy crappy recipes that are expensive to craft and whose sets give bonuses you don't want and a narrow concentration of a few recipes that are actually worth the effort ?

As for removing inf through purchasing items a very expensive store that takes inf, spits out salvage, recipes etc would probably be very welcome all around.

Of course that might upset people that play market volatility.

What ? I like inflation. I farm, it means the stuff I have in storage is more valuable and the drops I have become more valuable. Inflation is enjoyable for people who primarily produce goods.

I think you said, you run lots of speed tfs ? well its good for you. The merit is our final reserve currency inf inflation just makes your merits more valuable.

I am just observing that there are ways to take inf out of the system that aren't the equivalent of giving hookers dusted with coke to the people holding large stocks of inf.

I notice the simple things haven't been mentioned. Taxation, storage fees for wentworths, vault storage fees, bin storage fees etc are all good ways to remove inf from the system without actually impacting most players.

Lets see

1. We could have an intangible* property tax, for inf stored in bids and such.

2. A tangible property tax for inf on the character below the cap and that could be progressive and bracketed.

3. A tangible property tax for items in sg bins and vault storage.

*technically all property in the game is intangible.

And back to you

I'm rooting for enlightenment

Fixt funny that our resident economist failed to mention that one of the primary results of monetary deflation would be increasing the purchasing power of liquid assets.

Your Move