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Quote:Buying PvP or Purple IOs with hero villain merits is the absolute worst way to obtain them.For Stealth IOs, I am, in fact, making that assertion, especially for Alignment Merits and items that cost 100M or more.
Of course Quat's data tends to undercut the idea that you have to pay 100M for a Stealth IO anyhow, which makes that point moot, and makes the notion of spending any kind of merit on them silly unless the goal is specifically to have one at the lowest level possible.
Buying stealth IOs directly with merits is meerly a poor way of doing it.
The best way of gaining either in terms of time efficiency is earning inf and buying them.
Please compare apples to apples.
Edit: Asuming 30 minutes for 5 tips 36 minutes for 5 tips+alignment and dual boxing = 11 hours for a purple, 15+ hours for pvp io vs Several random purples/hr for a good farmer or 5 hrs/pvp io using MacSkulls wrong number of 1/60 kills -
Quote:So all of the run speed IOs are more expensive than about 25% of the pvp ios ?That is a bit misleading, as only certain (low) levels of run speed stealth have gone for that much.
Level 15, 100m+
16, 17, 18 ~33m ave
19 33-150m
22, 20m
28, 5-12m with a 30/40
29, last sale 11m
31, alternating 20m and 5-6m
in the 40's, a bunch of 555 sales, and a level 50 buy it now price of 22ish.
leaping level 50s? 100k.
Below lvl 20, should be able to obtain for 20m or less.
Slot it in sprint or a vet run. -
Quote:You can't spend Reward Merits at all to get a purple or PvPO, and spending Alignment Merits on a Stealth IO will cost you 1/10 or less than a purple or PvPO. Moreover, you can only obtain certain, generally unpopular purples and PvPOs for 100M or less. My assertion stands.
I can't spend Rands either. Unless you are arguing that its easier to earn merits and purchase directly, than it is to generate inf by any activity and buy from the market your assertion falls flat. -
Stealth IOs are currently are in the 100 mil+ range you can regularly obtain PvP IOs and purples for considerably less.
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Quote:Most people use Lightning rod and shield charge with a saturated aao. This allows the spawn to be shaped for maximum damage as wellLook again.
Take a clean elec/shield build from mids, and grab BU, LR and SC. then enable BU, and slot 3 SOs worth of damage into LR and SC. The numbers match up pretty closely (3 SOs worth of damage is actually 94.93%, i did a straight 95% in my math..)
Neither power is being affected by AAO, or any outside damage bonuses. -
Quote:
I agree. If our observations match reality in general, I think that is a good thing and a sign that we may not want things messed with. I am concerned that if blasters do become more obviously better for damage dealing, people may be more insistent on making sure to have blasters on a team, rather than being content with brutes/scrappers/dominators.
Since this thread started I have been wracking my brain on how to the AT could be improved without wrecking it. One of the things I like about it, is that it is without doubt harder to play solo at any given difficulty level than anything except possibly a defender.*
My first thought was that if the devs actually did try and put in a risk/reward system into the game and weighted xp rewards, and drops appropriately it would go along way fixing the lack of balance between the various ATs. For teams there could be an overall weight. The problem is of course people would optimize the heck out of that.
So I find myself thinking the blasters description should be changed to the solo challenge AT. The inherent should be changed to work the reverse of defenders so the larger the team the more mitigation they would get. A small measure of ranged defense and maybe some sort of actual mezz protection, mag 1 or mag 2, that kicked in when the team hit a certain size. This would help with the problem of blasters dieing because they were doing their thing while a defender decided to get a drink, or my favorite the defender that just pays attention to the tank.
There are some other needs that have been blaringly obvious for a long time. Fix snipes for all that have them, Fix devices, adjust the damage sonic does upward, it pays for its secondary effect with higher endurance costs. Then maybe as QoL change drop the recharge on Aim and Build Up to 60 seconds blasters only.
Quote:He mentioned ranged blaster, with hover. the epic shield doesnt cover range, so chances are, he gets most of his defenses from set bonuses. Which don't suppress.
Id really have to look at the build. Building for ranged defense has always been expensive slot wise
* Defenders seem considerably improved post the vigilance change, I just haven't leveled that many up, post change, to be sure. -
Quote:Even then, the blaster is hovering. Mez'es don't drop your toggles it just supresses them, which i think we've already been though.
and that same carnie boss, will rip up an SR just as easy.
When a toggle is suppressed it provides no def benefit. The hovering s/l blaster that relies on weave, the epic shield, combat jumping and or maneuvers loses all the def they provide. Just as a S.W.A.G. that is about 20% def gone.
So while the blaster and the SR have the same defense to the non positional, the SR still has its scaling resists,greater hp, ability to continue at full damage output, and it still has its defense to everything that doesn't bypass its positional defense. -
Quote:I have a hard time taking seriously the idea that the barrier to soloing Shadow Shard Tfs or any of the TFs with simul clickies is just the simul clickies,I'd actually argue that the TFs should not allow you to solo them at all. Certainly, this should not always be done with simul-clickes, as that hinders the ability of people to finish the TF if people get disconnected or try to grief TFs, but I'm sure that they can think of something. The problem is, it's not just about increasing the difficulty of the end mob. Bill's character might be able to stand up to a power-increased AV at the end, but a regular PUG might not. But there must be a way.
If someone wants to solo a shadow shard tf, deity bless em, and make way for them to climb their mountain. -
Quote:
Sorry you didn't catch it, I was calling Claws out on the overstatement. Most of the non positional attacks in the game are mezzing which I am sure he is well aware of, and have the effect of destroying a blasters defense.
Best Example: Carnie Bosses -
Quote:Also, I probably won't be reading too many replies on here as there have been many bad experiences with trolls, close-minded replies in the past to ideas/topics that should have open discussion/consideration.
Again, just getting the word out. More features are always more preferrable then less. You never know when you might be in a similar situation.
I think you have completely proved your point re: the forums, or more accurately the forums have proved it for you.
As to soloing, people do this anyway, the only difference your proposal would make, is the soloist would not have to bother other people to do their thing. So the people who are arguing for not allowing tfs to be soloed directly are actually saying they want soloists bothering people to fill.
Either that or they are just arguing to argue. -
Quote:Really.
So you're saying a blaster slotted for ranged defense and equipped with Aid Self and Hover, can't come close to scrapper survivability? Not even when they can dictate that nothing be able to attack them except from the position they have defense to?
.
There are no non positional attacks in the game you have 0 defense to ? -
Quote:I would say I rarely see anyone picking anything but the first 7 to show up. The exception would be buff/debuff.Here is a thing I think about. Blasters seem like a popular AT (for now; I have concerns about what dominators may do in the long run). People invite blasters/scrappers/dominators seemingly equally (although doms likely get less attention right now, but as people see more of them and see how well they do, I think it will increase the desire for doms). I rarely see people purposely choosing scrappers over blasters and I rarely see people choosing blasters over scrappers.
Quote:There's one problem with all your math and calculations. This goes for both Another Fan and Arbegla.
Not all scrappers are Electric/Shield, and not all blasters are Fire/Fire.
That's way to close when simply put the survivability difference is off the chart
Edit:
Quote:Will they adjust blasters again? I think stalkers are probably (hopefully?) going to get looked into first. What can they do for blasters? They have already once rejected the idea of buffing their mitigation. Their damage level is already very high. Adding more controls could work, but will make them more like dominators (and they are already pretty close as is). Buff/Debuff seems well out of concept. There was a point (long ago) when blasters had a DPE edge and adding that back was considered as one of the changes for I11, but ultimately abandoned (and with inherent Stamina, that does not truly seem like a boon anyway).
And a note currently archery and fire have a bit of a dpe edge. -
Quote:Using your own math, at the recharge cap for an elec/shield your looking this chain
LR + SC + JL + TS + JL + CI + JL + TS + JL + CI (repeat)
here your looking at (assuming base damage again)
(290.28+113.44+103.23+134.88+103.23+90.84+103.23+1 34.88+103.23+90.84) = 1,268.08 damage every 18 seconds, due to the recharge limitations on LR + SC
compared to the FB->FBr->FB->FSC (while running hotfeet + blazing aura) chain you alread made, which pulls
(78.83+109.8+78.83+99.54) + (11.12+13.9*2.5) = 429.85 damage, every 5 seconds
18/5 = 3.6. so you'll be able to do the fire/fire chain about 3.6 times per the elec/shield chain, at the recharge cap.
So, in 18 seconds, the elec/shield does 1,268.08 damage, and the fire/fire does (429.85*3.6) 1,547.46 damage..
Hmmm.. even doing it your way the fire/fire is coming out ahead.
1. How much damage does an aoe do to something that is dead ?
2. The Fire Blaster has Aim and build up, the Shield Scrapper has Build up and against all odds
Build up recharges in 18 seconds at the cap, and is 1 second of not doing damage vs 2 seconds of not doing damage for (aim+bu)
In the case of the elec/shield
LR+SC+TS+FIREBALL all fit in the buildup damage window.
That Starts at 180% bonus (saturated against all odds+ buildup) and works down as things die.
Edit: This is why when people state aim or build up contribute x% to damage because they increase damage by y and have z duty cycle its a problem.
Edit2: Your shield charge number looks a little low. -
Fire/energy
You get build up at level 4, have a solid amount of aoe available and very good single target. Its also very end friendly before you have stamina. -
Quote:No that is just why you can't use damage/cycle.So your comparing DPA, and not accounting for recharge (your just assuming, at the recharge cap) when in actual game play, hitint capped recharge, is pretty rare, and even in the best case, you'll be waiting alot more on LR/SC which will do less damage at the recharge cap, then your FB/FBr/FB/FSC chain.
The at the recharge cap was just to make things as extreme as possible, in your calculations you assumed that there was no recharge and used the base recharges. -
Quote:Actually my error on that, removing the wait time still doesn't help but the original chain I calculated the recharge from the start of casting not the end.How does adding in a fire sword circle, or combustion not increase the damage output? so theres no wait?
Edit: Especially when Combustion does more damage then fireball, in the same radius. Yea, 2 second higher cast time, but 1 second lower recharge.
The correct chain is
Code:{ Fire Ball Fire Breath Wait Fire Ball Fire Sword Circle Wait } ^N
Both fire sword circle and fire breath do 41 and 33 damage per the amount of time they take to cast.
Fire ball does 80. If in either of these if you delay fireball by more than 33/80 of a second to get an additional 33 damage you have lowered your total damage output. -
Quote:I have several times, let me try again just using fireWhy don't you explain it, pretty clearly, as you have already tried to stand by it, by saying that the scrapper can use thunderstrike/jacobs ladder while LR/SC is down, even though the blaster can use harder hitting, bigger area attacks in less time.
We have a team of a fire/fire blaster and 7 kins. The kins only knew how to put 1 button in their tray, that's the button for speedboost.* The fire blaster has hasten on auto. The blaster now has a recharge rate of 500% the absolute maximum he can have
His best use of AOEs is
Hotfeat
Blazing aura
Rain of fire
{Fire Ball recharges in 3.2 seconds
Fire Breath Recharges in 3.2 seconds
Wait
Fire Ball
Fire Fire Breath} ^ N
Everything else becomes pointless because adding it in doesn't increase the damage output.
*The granite tankers fantasy
Edit: when you say it takes time to position for the smaller AoEs you are assuming that there is no taunt aura running and there is no slack time to do that. -
Quote:The tank is so very very popular because most people don't have access to the required debuffs on demand but can usually scare up a decent tanker.The best way (ime) to make GW a pushover is by bringing two high recharge /cold controllers. Double benumb makes her heal pathetic and makes her mag 11 trillion hold last like 2 seconds.
If we have a couple well built colds on the team then I have no reservations about bringing as many scrappers as we want.
The ability of the tank and the support tends to determine what the rest of the team will consist of in a MOSTF -
Quote:CI isn't a true AOE, as the chain can end once it kills something. Thunderstrike and jacobs ladder have much lower area of affect then just about any other blaster AoE attack.
Edit: Plus i've already listed the Damage per cycle of a fire/fire vs a elec/shield, and any number of AoEs combined, will out damage a elec/shield overtime.
I am sorry but before we can go further you need to figure out for yourself why damage/cycle just doesn't matter. -
Quote:That sounds like an insanely great team composition. About how much dps would you say are putting out and how much have you debuffed her rate of recharge ?/sidetrack
IME, if your whole team is at the soft-cap, having everyone on the team in melee with GW does not add to her time to defeat. On our 7 def / 1 blaster STFs, we all huddle near the 4 patron AVs (although the defenders normally are not in melee range, they are well within her DR range) in order to make sure everyone is within range of group buffs (FS, Dispersions, Steamy Mist, etc.). -
Quote:The scrapper has no other attacks they can use ? They couldn't do say, SC,lightning rod, epic aoe, thunderstrike ? Maybe they could repeat those two at the end ? fitting in the occasional chain induction and jacobs ladder ?And you pretty much said, that you only need as much AoEs and you have enemy hitpoints, so once you hit the threshold of 400 damage, minions die, and 800 Lts die. and a scrapper (i assumed elec/shield) would be able to do that every 3-4 seconds.
The problem is the recharge limitations, and nothing can kill entire gruops of minions and LTs every 3 - 4 seconds. Yes, LR + SC can wipe them all out, BUT even in a fully IO'ed build, thats once every 30 seconds. During that same time, a blaster can rotate more attacks, and do as much, or even more damage. Its in not as big of a boom, but its still there. Thats my point.
The pretty boom of LR + SC doesnt negate the MUCH lower Damage per cycle it has, which a blaster can easily out do under the same situations. -
Quote:Off the top of my head I can't recall how many hitpoint's she has, but its a large number ?Thats for her to hit 1 person, having all of them within range. Her heal will heal for 10% of her hitpoints, per target affected. what your saying, is with 4 people in range, she has on average a 34% chance to hit 1 of them, and heal herself for 10%.
Its still very much doable, and she doesn't punch through the softcap, its just the way the percentages compound. she still only has a 10% chance to hit each one, and could very much miss each person, as each roll is independent of the other, they just all happen at once, due to being an AoE. plus, her streak breaker at that range means she can still miss 100 times before it'll force her to hit 1 (at 10.5% chance tohit)
And just what is the rate she fires that heal ? Often ? -
Quote:ObviouslyObviously you don't know how the softcap actually works.
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Attack_M...cs#Data_Tables
a +4 AV, has no tohit modifications, so they only thier accmods bonus, which means, against the softcap, they only have a 10.5% chance tohit. Pretty sure, thats not a 'good chance' at all.
Edit: that was a direction I have been trying not to go
So let me show you why.
# enemies in range, Ghost widows chance to heal 10% to hit chance
1, .1
2. .19
3. .271
4. .34
That is why she has a good chance to get through the softcap if you have people in range
and that is why you don't want to bring much melee to a stf, if you do you can go forever and never overcome GWs heal. -
Quote:Or really warped TF design.Not really. If scrappers are so much better, as is being implied, then one AV out of the whole TF shouldn't be a reason to invite an "inferior" AT instead, now, should it?
What difference should it make between a blaster, and a softcapped SR or Shield scrapper? I mean, it's her heal that we're worried about, right? If it doesn't hit you there's no problem.
And on the softcapped issue that's a bit misleading. She is at +4 and has a good chance of hitting through the softcap. -
I can't say with certainty what predominant practice is, but in the past most blaster farmers I know tended to purple farm at negative difficulties.