Another_Fan
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
You believe a lot of things that many have already found comical.
Of the friends I've turned on to the game, most have been overwhelmed enough with the mechanics and figuring out playstyles to even be bothered with IOs. Sure, IOs sound good to them, but what good is it delving into them when they don't even know how something works on SOs?
Maybe it's been too long for you to remember what it's like being new to the game, but the friends I've played with all had plenty on their hands to do with just getting to know the game. As veteran players, many of us plan out a character from beginning to end with Mids and it all makes sense to us. Someone who really wants to learn the game won't just take a power because you tell them to, they want to figure it out on their own. I prefer a population of new players willing to learn how to play before wanting all the shiniest things they wouldn't know what to do with. They tend to stick around longer.
Most of the time, while leveling new players and showing them the ropes, they've come across a very nice drop to help them stay financially sufficient for SOs and then some. By the time they've got a 50, they've got enough to at half-way IO out a toon, if not more.
You are the same person who said
Quote:Seeing as how you can't access the number of transactions taking place on the market to find the average amount of influence being moved around, there's no way to determine if the amount of inflation is as severe as you'd have everyone believe. -
Quote:I believe you are likely wrong and I am certain you have nothing to back that up.Originally Posted by Rylas
New players coming in aren't going to be conncerned with getting purples and PVP IOs.
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Quote:Believe it was either Arcanaville or Castle. It made an impression at the time but I would have to go crazy on the search to find it now.Originally Posted by StratoNexus
Who said that and in what context?
Neither of those would be bad at all. Domination is a very nice mechanic. For full auto and hail I assume you would want the duration to start ticking after their animation ?Quote:I still like the idea of having Aim and Build Up both be usable while mezzed AND having them grant mag 6 protection to immob, kb, stun, sleep, hold, terrorize, and confuse for ~12 seconds.
Do the same for Full Auto and Hail of Bullets, maybe shorten the duration to ~8 seconds.
Give TD a steady on Mag 3 or 4 protection to hold, sleep, and stun.
I don't think it is likely, but I do think it would be interesting. -
Does anyone have information on why nukes were made crashing in the first place ?
If it was something related to the original target caps or aggro caps, it might not be at all relevant anymore. It could well be something that should have been corrected but just never got corrected because there was no way to bring it to the proper attention. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Shaytanah
Hi RR! Good seeing you!
Blaster secondaries are odd. They seem to provide a pretty big melee component to what is supposed to be a ranged toon. Almost as if *they* want you to blap!
Makes for a catch 22...building defense for a blaster is a chore. Let's say you softcap your ranged defense; what good are you gonna do in melee range, other than provide veng bait? But if you softcap melee defense you're taking big risks at range, which is where you're supposed to be.
Love blasters, but there needs to be some love applied. After all, they made it easier for defenders to solo, and that's an AT I don't think was ever meant to be solo friendly.
Supposedly blasters solo just fine. I suspect that statement used fine in a way most people wouldn't. My own feeling has been the AT needs real mez protection. A mezed blaster has on the order of 1/10 the survivability of an unmezed blaster which puts them well behind all the other "damage dealer" ats in the game. -
Quote:Actually we do, we have the merit and the Amerit. When the merit first came out it was worth about 250k inf/merit now it is worth more than 1million/meritOriginally Posted by TheMightyObs
The only reason we can't technically use the term "hyperinflation" is because when most countries undergo hyperinflation, they print more paper money to stimulate the economy but can't print it faster than the currency is devalued - at which point the populace reverts to bartering and systems of hard currency like gold and silver standards. In essence, the only reason we can't have hyperinflation is because WE DON'T HAVE AN ALTERNATIVE FORM OF CURRENCY TO FALL BACK ON and bartering is worthless in a world where you can sell your goods on the hyperinflated by not hyperinflated only because it technically can't be deemed such market.
You can't say how much people are just banking their merit earnings that information isn't easily. There is an indication that there was worry about the amount of inf and merits in the system, seeing as the devs capped the conversion rate from merits to Amerits.
From my perspective it looks like the devs have given up on attracting new players. You toss in the new 84 month badge which is an invitation to manipulate market items, its daunting to new players coming in. Its especially bad for new players that didn't come in to play the market but did come in for a superhero game.Quote:Sure, the market's not that bad for us right now. But what's it gonna be like in three years? If we see similar inflationary trends (which apparently aren't bad enough to concern the crap out of you all yet), how are you going to feel when my primary toon's build is worth an eighth of a trillion influence and it's still not complete? I wouldn't ragequit over a doubling in prices, but if they go up by that much than I'll have two choices. Either I can stop bothering to try and fully enhance one toon or I can utilize my considerable abilities to sway the market in such a way that... dun, dun, DUN! Prices go up as I sit on thousands and thousands and even more thousands of fully crafted IO's until their value increases. I don't actively engage in this behavior presently because things are so bad right now that the more people there are cornering niches of the market, the worse it gets for everyone. The only viable solution for coming up with enough money to fully IO a toon to completion within a month is to farm AE for at least four hours per day set to +4x8, claim a low level silver recipe roll and craft/sell what's valuable then sell off what isn't selling well offmarket at the store (which feeds the inflation). With two accounts, you can overnight afk PvP farm. Most people don't have two accounts though, or can't run two instances of CoH. This leaves AE farming as just about the only viable solution for making a billion influence per day... which means that purple recipes aren't done inflating.
Indeed, there were and still are things that sell for considerably below what they otherwise should. They just haven't attracted the interest of someone yet.Quote:If you don't think we can attain a kissing cousin to hyperinflation, you haven't been watching. I've personally caused it on many instances and sustained it for long periods. I've made recipes go from 5k to 4 million overnight and it cost me so little to do so that I made a profit on my first sale. That is the beginning of the problem and I could easily have tacked on another zero. I would've again made my money back for that second round of price increases on the first sale. The mechanisms for what could be perceived as hyperinflation are present, the means exist and just because it hasn't afflicted every aspect of the market yet doesn't mean it won't. It just means it hasn't afflicted every aspect of the market YET.
What most people don't get about economics is its not physics. Physical laws are always obeyed by the elements of the system. Economic laws are at least in part a description of human mass psychology. In physics you don't wait for particles to realize they can make a profit off gravity.Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
That ... is so not what inflation is about.
The fact that you can raise the price on items doesn't point to inflation period, let alone "hyperinflation".
Inflation isn't a magic wand that raises the price of everything in equal amounts. Price increases or reductions don't happen till the people involved either realize they can or need to make the changes happen. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Ok, so 30-34 is high. But 36-50 is not. 5 levels out of 21 does not represent hyperinflation across the board.
I'd say my position is more one of "If you can't know everything about the market, you can't make absolute statements about the market." Saying, "The market has hyperinflation across the board" would be an absolute statement. You can say today's price for this group of items is such-and-such more/less than it was before, but the market on-the-whole won't fit into a such a claim with the limited amount of data available to take from it.
I made two statements in this thread. I count on the inf to be worth less as time passes and the claim that that the inflation rate exceeds the minimum condition (26% compounded annually) for hyper inflation. Perfect knowledge isn't required for either one of those. If it is you might want to take it up with BLS.
I also made the observation that talking about off market fixed price items is not relevant to any conversation about inflation. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
If you care to explain how only levels 30-33 negate the remaining levels CI's are available at, then you might actually have a point there.
Look I listed 5 or 6 items that had gone through large price increases. Of those items one had just suffered a price collapse. You picked the one item that collapsed. Of that one item at the time you picked your exemplars there were many that were completely unavailable.
Everything on the market goes through swings from high to low. If you are going to compare, you have to compare high to high, low to low. If you compare Low to High or High to Low its not going to tell you much about the price trend.
So your position now is "If you can't know everything about the market you can't say anything about it ?"Quote:While Rare Salvage has gone up (not that I'll trust [right or wrong] numbers you throw out) it's not enough to say the entire market has hyper-inflated. So, until all items on the market (and don't worry, we'll throw out TOs/DOs/SOs and any other item available from an inf-oriented-vendor) have been taken into account, with amount of transactions taking place (after all, purples don't sell the same number of items as common and uncommon items). Seeing as how you can't access the number of transactions taking place on the market to find the average amount of influence being moved around, there's no way to determine if the amount of inflation is as severe as you'd have everyone believe. -
Quote:If you don't mind me asking what makes you say that ?Originally Posted by Diggis
Cheers. Looking at that it looks like the prices have stabilised. Supply and demand. More people using IO sets, more people buying NAO. Makes sense to me.
Prices and supply still look like they are all over the place. I was really expecting the weekly task forces to crater high level rare salvage pricing, and that turned out to be completely wrong. Was also expecting purple prices to take a bigger dip than they did. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Impossible! A_F clearly has proven that hyperinflation is taking place. That would mean Pangeans have to sell for 6-9 million now! Clearly, your findings are fabricated.
/sarcasm
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
You still have the ability to neglect the majority of the market (i.e. the overwhelming number of CIs selling for 2-5 million compared to your small margin in the 30-33 level range).
You really aren't good at that whole J'accuse thing.
Normally its always best for people to check these out for themselves but in cases like yours its well worth it to make it blindingly clearQuote:While usually I would agree, the Claimer has the burden of proof, I'd prefer to see numbers provided by someone more trustworthy. Someone whose been tunnel-visioning only those things that cost more in certain ranges, isn't someone I think who will provide reliable, non-biased numbers.
Code:2007 2011 RLT Alien Blood Sample 20,000.00 23,000.00 RMA Black Blood of the Earth 144,000.00 3,700,000.00 RLT Complex Chemical Formula 20,000.00 20,000.00 RMA Deific Weapon 2,900,000.00 3,250,000.00 RHA Diamond 62,000.00 3,600,000.00 RMA Empowered Sigil 1,840,000.00 4,000,000.00 RMA Enchanted Impervium 1,890,000.00 3,300,000.00 RLT Enriched Plutonium 17,000.00 10,000.00 RHA Essence of the Furies 1,200,000.00 3,400,000.00 RHA Hamidon Goo 1,680,000.00 3,200,000.00 RLT Heads Up Display 26,000.00 21,000.00 RMT Holographic Memory 22,000.00 3,200,000.00 RMT Impervium 32,000.00 3,400,000.00 RLA Lament Box 47,000.00 800,000.00 RHA Magical Conspiracy 1,250,000.00 3,400,000.00 RMT Military Cybernetics 54,000.00 4,000,000.00 RMA Mu Vestment 990,000.00 3,150,000.00 RMT Mutating Genome 14,000.00 3,000,000.00 RLA Page from the MAlleus Mu 22,000.00 500,000.00 RHA Pangean Soil 3,100,000.00 3,500,000.00 RHT Positronic Matrix 4,200.00 3,600,000.00 RHT Photonic Weapon 32,000.00 3,300,000.00 RLT Plasma Capacitor 20,000.00 20,000.00 RHA Prophecy 3,400,000.00 3,400,000.00 RLA Psionic Manifestation 16,000.00 10,000.00 RLA Psionically Charged Bras 22,000.00 40,000.00 RMT Reactive Gas 14,000.00 3,500,000.00 RMA Soul Trapped Gem 1,360,000.00 3,300,000.00 RLT Source Code 20,000.00 4,000.00 RLA Strand of Fate 66,000.00 15,000.00 RLA Sybmiotic Armor 40,000.00 4,600.00
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Quote:Originally Posted by Lohenien
there were a few periods of time where rare salvage of all flavors cost 500k-1.2m. That was during an ae exploit period. "Normal" prices for rares, post ae, range from 800k to 2 million. Pre ae costs were 500k-800k for tech and 3-5m for arcane.
Currently we are at an elevated cost period following dbl xp, and the incarnate content is skewing salvage generation and inf earnings.
Fullmens list disagrees with you. 2007 is pre AE. -
Quote:Well you are at a computer so the 700,000 is something you can check easily enough.Originally Posted by Diggis
Lol, burden of proof mate. You provided the averages you should provide the sorce of those numbers.
And I'm not at home at the moment, so it's not easy at all.
And I assume you will get home, so you will be able to check easily. What do my numbers do for you ?
I mean if you think I am making them up or pulling them out of ascendants base as you say will my putting up a list change your mind at all ? -
Quote:Fighting against +0x0 using as many insps as you like everything is fine, and by that logic there was never a need to nerf or buff anything in the game because they were all fine.Originally Posted by JD_Gumby
Against EBs, sure, and on higher +#/x# settings. At normal difficulties, though, against normal (plus Bosses) foes, they're just fine...
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Quote:This is really something you should do for yourself then. Its easy enough, took me about 3 minutes while waiting around for NPCS to get killed. Any way the reason for the + was I rounded down, there should have been a - after 700,000 as that was rounded up.Originally Posted by Diggis
I wanted to see your numbers because you're the one making the claim of an average of 2,000,000 + now. The addition of the plus makes it sound to me like you are pulling the number out of Ascendents base.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Diggis
Do you have numbers to support these? IE, have you added up all of Fulmens list below, and the corresponding salvage on the market now?
Yes, but you hardly need my numbers
Cut and paste fullmens hero list into a text file
Save
Load into excel as a fixed width format
You now have all your rows and columns set up.
Pull up the market interface with the /auctionhouse command and fill in the column for now at your leisure. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Impossible! A_F clearly has proven that hyperinflation is taking place. That would mean Pangeans have to sell for 6-9 million now! Clearly, your findings are fabricated.
/sarcasmQuote:Originally Posted by Rylas
First: You "magically" missed every CI that didn't support you were saying as well. It's ok for you to do, but not others? Especially when the ones I listed greatly outnumber yours?
Second: How more plainly can we say that we all know there is inflation. Just not the hyperinflation you and the OP are stuck on?300% in 4 years not badCode:Average price rare salvage 2007 = 700000 Average price rare salvage 2011 = 2000000 +
You still have that magic ability to miss everything that doesn't support your position
Diamonds 62 k then 3.6 mil now
Holographic memory 22k then, 3.2 mil now -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
Seriously, who here do you think is of the opinion there is no inflation?
I know you said you got this the first time but you seem to have missed it again.
Hey you magically managed to miss every price on crushing impacts that didn't support what you were saying, maybe you believe that arguing there isn't inflation because fixed price commodities didn't inflate is valid as wellQuote:Quote:
Originally Posted by Rylas
So, inflation should only be determined off of the prices of very rare items? Not the market as a whole?
I'm not even anywhere near "expert knowledge" of the inner workings of the market, but really, if I can make it work for me, anyone can make it work. If you're hung up on the prices of purples and PVP IOs, then go out and farm for them through the methods available. It's really not that hard. Or, do you simply prefer the dig-your-heels-in-the-ground-and-pout method?
Just to clarify the conversation seeing as it looks like you missed it.
Quote:
First of all, there are clear cut segments where there isn't (and can't be)
*any* inflation at all, nevermind hyperinflation.
These include the obvious TO/DO/SOs, tier 1 inspirations, and even common
IO recipes. Zero inflation at all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Purple set are MEANT to be rare. Basing whether their is or isn't hyperinflation based on their prices (and RMT for christ's sake) is a seriously flawed argument.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another Fan
No worse than basing arguments on the price of undesired items that are available in infinite quantity.
Of course inflation is determined off the whole market. Origin enhancements, common, uncommon, rare, ultrarare are all part of it, excluding any of it gives a very biased view.
This is especially true with the argument Four Speed is trying to push. Because seeing as you can now buy off level enhancements with tickets, he isn't even correct about the price of those being static. -
Quote:You managed to take one heck of a lot away fromOriginally Posted by Nihilii
I don't see where did I say or even implied that except in the lunatic world you created for yourself when anyone who doesn't support you unconditionally is part of a common hivemind who not only disagrees with everything you say but apparently makes specific arguments completely unrelated to their actual objections.
It's especially ironic because I actually have different opinions on the market than most around these parts, yet in your eyes I'm one of Them.
So this "Them" you are talking about would be you and Obitus ? I never knew 2 people constituted a them. How many is an everyone for you ?Quote:So let me get this straight.
People are making more, and spending more for the things they buy and that isn't inflation for you or nihilii
3 or more ? -
Quote:LOL defense, anyone that has been buying stuff off the market doesn't need me to tell them they have been paying more.Originally Posted by Rylas
Dersk also mentioned:
So I'd be careful about hiding behind it for defense. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
So, if I miss one level of enhancements, I'm cherry picking. If you miss all the other levels beside that one, it's only because.....?
Sorry, but you can't call me a cherry-picker without having been even worse at it.
Looks up one post -
Quote:Your day to buy a lottery ticket then. You just managed to randomly miss data points that contradict you, hit just the ones that support you and not bother to check on any of the other sets that were in that price range.Originally Posted by Rylas
Distance myself from what? I wasn't the one to bring up TO/DO/SO enhancements. I didn't defend them either.
Sorry, I just randomly selected levels. I don't have a lot of the 40s either, but I doubt they're selling for 10 million. Never-the-less, you have only level 35 enhancements to back up your claim, when you clearly said before:
And btw you used to be able to buy all the level 30s for less than a mil. -
Quote:If you say no one there is no way to take that but at face value.Originally Posted by Obitus
You were responding to me, and you criticized me specifically (and Nihili) by saying the following (and I quote):
"People are making more, and spending more for the things they buy and that isn't inflation for you or nihilii"
Just because your conclusion isn't necessarily wrong it doesn't mean your reasoning is correct.Quote:Then why quibble with my post when my point was that inflation isn't a widespread problem? Why accuse me of having "wave[d] it away as being a problem" if you don't think it's a widespread problem?
I have no idea how I could state anything plainer than thisQuote:That is why I asked you to clarify, because frankly it remains unclear what your purpose or indeed your position really is.
How would you like me to amplify or simplify that ?Quote:I have complete confidence in the inf. I have complete confidence that tomorrow it will be worth less than it was today, just as today it is worth less than it was yesterday. -
Quote:Golf clap. What a nice way to try and distance yourself.Originally Posted by Rylas
Man, you're still desperately clinging onto the TO/DO/SO defense that no one's tried to argue for the past 2 pages? While people shred apart your arguments everywhere else?
But not quite as nice as this
How bout you tell everyone why you felt so strongly about this you forgot the number 35 existed ?Quote:Originally Posted by Rylas
I don't think he's going to actually say what's got him so bunched up. Coming out and actually stating your position would be "dumbing it down." -
Quote:I see you like to cherry pick, or did you just forget that 35 comes after 34 and before 36Originally Posted by Rylas
Notice that the doubled pricing you swore by doesn't seem to be showing up. Some of the higher levels ones we're all sold within the same day, while the lower level ones date back by a couple of weeks in some places. While some people may be willing to spend 10 million, many don't. And if the 2-5 million you quoted from 3 years ago is even accurate, then this shows nothing close to hyperinflation.
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Quote:Sorry this is the same thread where people are trotting out SO enhancements and saying there is no inflation ? The same thread with people saying you shouldn't consider segments of the market when you talk about inflation. So while you may not think it was in question other people certainly did.Originally Posted by Obitus
The existence of inflation has never been in question.
Quote:Even if people do not run tips, they can sell the items you think are so disastrously inflated for mondo cash - and then use that cash to buy a comparatively larger quantity (relative to a few years ago) of the almost-as-good stuff that comprises a high-performance build. We are not talking about a situation where some higher authority prints money and uses it for its own ends -- effectively stealing money from the citizenry. We're talking about a situation where everyone makes more. I feel inflation is disastrous ? I am glad you know how I feel because I certainly didn't know I felt that way.Quote:Perhaps this discussion would be more productive (to the extent that any conversation here is productive) if you'd reveal why you think the inflation we've seen thus far is a widespread problem.
While I have about 70 billion inf stored, I have over 200 billion in IOs stored. Every 1% rise in the overall price of things nets me 1.3 billion inf for doing nothing