Arbegla
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Posts
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Joined
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He hasn't responded in awhile, think our logic finally won over?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, seriously, let us be done with this very basic part of the discussion. YOU NEED TO USE THE MARKET IN ORDER TO USE THE I/O SYSTEM. You hear that? loud enough?
There is no way for a person to plan a build, then go out and personally collect every recipe and ingredient. You have to trade the ingredients and recipes you do recieve for those you want. Seriously, it is pretty basic. Unless you are trying not to hear me say this.
So, given you have to use the market to use the I/O system. You are at the mercy of Farmers and Marketeers who drive the price points. That have tons more treasure, and tons more market knowledge. The newb on the market, the newb in the game, gets walked on like the newest smallest prisoner in Folsom. Great if it was "City of abusers" not so god for "City of I want new players"Your really not reading what your actually typing are you? Or what your responding to?Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
To kitg out a charcter in 5 purple sets would require 1200 uniterrupted days of TIPing at 50. Add in 2 sets of PVPs and another 360 days, and then a few procs, etc comes to about 6 to 7 years. When I presented this figure earlier in these posts I was widely ridiculed. In fact, it is truly inefficient. We all know the only effective way to kit out a toon is to use the Market.
This will be one of the last times I respond to disingenuous posts such as this.
You said it is not possible to USE the Invention system without using the Market. I respond that it is possible. You then respond that its not effective, which if you actually read my post you quoted, you'd realized that i actually said it would take much longer.
Now thats take another look at your 1200 day estimate. Lets assume you want 5 full sets of purples, and the top 3 PvP IOs. Thats 5 * 5 * 20 merits for the Purples, and 3 * 35 for the PvP IOs. So your looking at about 605 A-merits. Ok, i can see where you got your 1200 days now. Except your just assuming doing tips. So lets break that down some more shall we?
You can get 7 A-merits every 4 days if you really wanted. You do your tips and get 2 A-merits in those 4 days, then every 20 hours you cash in 20 million inf, and 50 reward merits, and you another A-merits. So thats about 1.75 A-merits every day right? So lets redo your math again.
you need 605 A-merits, and you get 1.75 each day, so 605/1.75 = 345 days.
Now, thats assuming you use the tip system to get about 173 A-merits, and then buy the other 432. Now, to buy 432 A-merits you need 8,640,000,000inf, and 21,600 reward merits. I can see getting all those reward merits within 345 days, so the only issue is the 8.64 billion inf, well, i guess thats not much of an issue as your cashing out every 20 million, and 20 million inf is actually pretty easily to earn up. I mean, thats 1 million every hour (20 hour timer on cashing out) And most level 50s can earn that with just SOs. So, it looks like its completely possible.
So a little under 1 year. Isn't that what your want? Being able to completely IO out your best character in a year? And I proved its possible to do it, without using the market at all. -
Quote:YOU DO NOT NEED TO TOUCH THE MARKET AT ALL IN ORDER TO USE THE INVENTION ORIGIN SYSTEM. That loud enough for you? Merits will get you the recipes you need, A-merits let you get exact recipes, and tickets from AE will let you get the salvage. Done. Never had to touch the market at all. Will it take longer? Yes.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Okay, seriously, let us be done with this very basic part of the discussion. YOU NEED TO USE THE MARKET IN ORDER TO USE THE I/O SYSTEM. You hear that? loud enough?
There is no way for a person to plan a build, then go out and personally collect every recipe and ingredient. You have to trade the ingredients and recipes you do recieve for those you want. Seriously, it is pretty basic. Unless you are trying not to hear me say this.
So, given you have to use the market to use the I/O system. You are at the mercy of Farmers and Marketeers who drive the price points. That have tons more treasure, and tons more market knowledge. The newb on the market, the newb in the game, gets walked on like the newest smallest prisoner in Folsom. Great if it was "City of abusers" not so god for "City of I want new players"
But it is entirely possible. Just because YOU don't do it that way, doesn't mean it is not possible. -
Quote:You just lumped people who want to 'finish' characters in with 'newb's. You really just aren't getting it. let me try to explain it a little better.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Furthermore, it is my belief that anyone who does not seriously farm or sit and market for the vast majority of their gaming experience will be in similar straights. Please, do not say again the game is based on SOs. to those of you saying it, I have never, ever, stated you were incorrect. Also, you never need any badges to play. You never need to complete TFs. You do not need any type of merits. You can really lock down you toon at level 1 with Exp earning turned off and have a great time. For those of us that want to "finish" characters, we require more. Including the I/O system. They i/O system is dependent on the market system. the market system is slanted towards long term farmers and marketeers. Therefore newbs are the victim of this setup. newbs are the future market of the Devs. The Devs do not want to alienate their new customers. So why would the Devs want to favor the current Farmers and Marketeers at the expense of all ther future business?
Just because YOUR doing it wrong, doesn't mean its not possible for some total newb to come along and do it much better then you. People spend less then 10 minutes a DAY and make BILLIONS of inf. How is that sitting in front of the market?
I log on a character, play until I fill up my salvage, then run to a vendor. I sell off any common recipes I have, then run to the market place, list the salvage I don't need at 300 for commons, 1200 for uncommons, and 6000 for rares, then buy up the salvage I need to make any set recipes I happened to get as drops. If I see I actually need the enhancement, I'll store it in my base, and then list and sell any other drop for 75% of the going rate. I determine the going rate by the average of the last 5 items that sold.
Using the above method, I have made billions of inf, I have been able to completed IO out multiple 50s to the point of finishing them (at lest until inherent fitness hits live). Just play the game, and follow that advice, and you will have the money to do whatever it is you want. Its really not that hard. -
Quote:Bolded my edits. Your again mistaking need and want.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Excellent question. To character builders and content players, to badgers everywhere, want and need are practically synonymous. I do not need to do every story arc. Yeah. I want to do. I do not need every badge. Yeah, I want to do. I do not need to pimp out my main characters in some insane makes sense only to me. Yeah, I want to do. And many other gamers just like me do as well. And since we game for content and enjoyment, as the Devs seem to prefer, we should be rewarded more than the farmers and marketeers. In my opinion. My feeling.
That's the different between need and want. You feel you need to achieve all these things, and that's great, you have goals, that's awesome. Problem is, you want the shortest route from point A, where you are now to point B, where you want to be. Even after multiple people post the quickest route they know of, all you respond with is 'I don't want to do those things I feel that I need, so there should be other options for me.'
To which more people point out other options you could take, to which you still say the same thing. You feel entitled to these things, due to the amount of time you've been here, or the amount you play, or whatever your reason is, yet you refuse to learn how to adjust. Life is about choices, and you are choosing to ignore the advice in front of you every time it is presented.
Now, I would normally give you credit for sticking to your guns, but you've even changed you stance since the original post, so your not even doing that.
You want things to be easier then they are now, yet compared to any other MMO (or even RPG) out there, this is by far the EASIEST system I have come across in terms of getting loot and treasure as you put it. Any other MMO REQUIRES Farming. REQUIRES grinding out crafting items, and REQUIRES large amount of in game currency to pull off. We already have it exponentially easier then any other game out on the real work market. Why must you demand it be even easier? -
Quote:What you aren't understanding is the Devs have already released multiple ways for average consumers to get recipes and salvage at reasonable rates. Merits, Tickets, A-merits. All provide a means for average consumers to get recipes and salvage.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I have already outed myself as someone who helps manage car auctions in RL. (one of the reasons i hate doing auction work in-game) Guess who profits from auto auctions? Car dealers. Dealing in olume, with experience, knowedge, mechanics, tow trucks, a whole system. Guess who loses? the average consumer. With one transaction, up against experts dealing in volume. Guess who the Devs in City of need to side withto increase customer happiness? The Car Dealers? NOPE. So the consumers? DING. Yep, the City of Devs need to make market modifications so that recipes and salvage are available to average consumers at reasonable rates to encourage game happiness. Sorry farmers, you are a severely limited group of the Devs marketing strategy. And, even nerfed (for the umpteenth time?) we all know the farmers will land on their feet with a new trick. So, the devs need to help the little guy, the new player, the average consumer. and get rid of stupid high Market prices for I/Os. In my opinion.
Also, enhancement stores allows average consumers to get TOs, DOs, and SOs, at the same rates no matter where you buy them, and the game is functionally balanced around these 'set rate' enhancements. So, using your 'car dealership' example, i'll add to it.
You have your own car dealership, and your selling sport cars at a 15% lose but you don't let your customers know your selling point. All you tell them is that you have cars for sale, cars which can run a quarter mile in about 6 seconds, and top out at around 350MPH, and they can name a price until it sells. What you do show the customers is what the last 5 cars sold for, but you still don't tell them what your selling your cars for. On average, you make money on each sale, when compared to what your originally bought the sport cars for. This is basically how our in game market works.
Now, across the street from your car dealership is a chain company, that also sells cars. Except their cars aren't sports cars, can't run a quarter mile in less then 15 seconds, and top out at about 100MPH. Now, these cars are always the same price, and that price is displays clearly so everyone can see it. This is basically how our in game enhancement stores work.
Now, the city you live in, has Autobahn basically everywhere, with a minimal speed limit of 45MPH. Now, both your set price cars, and your sport cars can go at lest that fast. You also notice that everywhere you look in your city, there are advertisements for the set price cars. You see maybe 1 to every 5 advertisements for your sports cars, and 4 outta 5 for the set price ones. Knowing that you can get around in the set rate car, why would you complain that someone is selling sports cars right across the street? -
I've been playing for about 51 months (i think i will be getting that badge anyday now actually) And every single one of my 50s have a complete IO build. I have about 12 50s.
Multiple builds that are 'finished' have purples in them. I have 1 build that even has PvP Ios. I've never spent more then 1 billion for any IO, and i have all three procs in that build.
I worked at it, i crafted and sold my drops, and i found means to make money without resulting to AE, or even Korean RMT spammers.
I'm also currently level up and playing 8 different characters all in praetoria, all of whom i'm level locking at certain levels to do all the content. I sent some money over their way, and nearly all of them have made enough profits from just paying the game (not any marketeering) that they have over the amount i sent them, while still rocking the higher level enhancements i could buy.
B_C you have to consider the difference between want and need. You say you need these IOs to complete your characters, yet the IO system is completely optionial. Why would anyone need IOs when a fully SO'ed out character is what the game is balanced around? The only thing people need to run ANY content successfully is the alpha slot, and an alpha boost slotting in it, so they aren't nerfed too heavily when they run 2(two) high end task forces.
Sellers are willing to pay whatever price they set in order to get certain IOs. You do realize that when PvP ios were first released, the current 'high value' items were going for a fraction of what they cost now? Then people released what they did, how they worked, and just how rare they are, so the prices starting going up. And if you actually watch those prices, they are starting to decline back down that. At the peak, certain PvP IOs were going for excess of 3 billion per, and were only selling off the market.
Your also only looking at high level enhancements. I purchases my level 37 Pancea proc for only 1 billion inf, straight off the market at a buy it now price. Its the best 1 billion i've ever spent, and I do not regret spending the money at all on that enhancement.
Why do you have such an issue with that fact a 'Player controlled' Market is being controlled by the 'players'? If you feel you need certain enhancements to perform well in a team enviroment then you need to understand that those enhancement will cost you a lot. If you are unwilling to spend the money on said enhancements, then it is noone fault but your own that you can not attain those items.
New players do not look at the market and say 'Wow, i'll never get those things.' New players actually are prone to flat out ignoring the market. I know multiple people who liked city better when it didnt have a market, and they had to earn things the 'old fashion way' even though its a completely optionial system. New players can play, and interact with other players just fine while using SOs. Besides the Incarnate Task Forces, what other concent is limited to specific enhancements? -
No, we're not. Because plenty of players have presented more then enough data to support their side, and they aren't devs.
So why can't you present data to support your side?
You don't quite understand that people are WILLING to pay these prices. There are PLENTY of people out there who will just throw BILLIONS of inf at other people to get their items, just because you wont, doesnt make it griefing. -
eh, i'dtake that emp over a FF personally. Your assuming emps just heal, when really, 4 (rather 5) of their powers are buffs. Fortitude means more damage, and more acc (in addition to defense, which when power boosted, is near FF levels) plus unlimited recovery and regeneration from RAs, and more recharge (plus more regen/recovery) from AB.. and CM to add more mez protection.
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Yeah, again, im leaning towards the damage bonus. Even if i'm debuffed, domination is still perma down to about -80% recharge debuff.. (its perma without hasten, and hasten adds 70%) my attack chain is pretty flawless at that high recharge, so adding a few half seconds to my attacks probably won't matter as much as the damage bonus.
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My general idea, is just pure death. It works pretty well on my fire/fire/fire blaster, without a very slotted epic resistance shield. +31% damage (with assault) plus AoE stun every 22 seconds, plus over 450 raw single target DPS rotating fire blast, incin, blaze, plus enough AOE to decimate most any group, and enough recharge to perma hold AVs through the purple triangles, so im thinking ill manage.
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yeah, i was thinking the same thing, just had a brainstorm idea while running errands and thought 'hey, moar recharge!' then realize what i had to give up, and figured my original design was probably the better idea.
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Hey guys,
I'm building this fire/fire/fire dom for pure damage and carnage, and i've ran into a little bit of a snag. This build is the current one, with higher damage from sets.
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And this next build will pack higher recharge, after moving some slots around.
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Basically the different is between 5% damage, and 6.25% global recharge. The build is already perma dom, and perma hasten (even without the extra recharge) so im just wondering if the damage, or the recharge is more valuable on a already high recharge build. -
Quote:Ya know, just to derail this thread a little, I'm a 4yr+ vet, and i still find things in this game that makes me pretty excited to keep playing it. Building characters, reading stories, and just generally playing characters will keep me interested. Yea, i may take breaks, but with the things they are currently working on, I probably won't be taking a break for quite some time.Originally Posted by Lascher
I know! Lol. Maybe it would inspire me to save quicker!
I could however subscribe, even tho I can't plAy, and ***** about it in the forum!
I just think with other superhero games coming out.....eventually one of them will get it right and Coh will be dead. Doesn't nc soft want that to be an nc soft game? Pretty much everyone I know in game agrees, if a GOOD superhero game comes out, they will be outta here, and those are long time vets talkin. Let's be honest, the only reason any of us still play Coh (aside from having an older computer) is there Is no other good option. For this genre anyways. No one that has played for years can tell me they are still as excited playing Coh as they were their 1st couple years??? As soon as another real good game like this comes out, we are all outta here! Admit it! Lol. So make one nc soft! You did pretty good with this one! It's just gettin rusty now!
Please keep your opinions to yourself, and don't assume everything thinks the same thing you do, cuz they really don't. -
I've been trying, yes, actually trying, to corner the market with regenerating fleshs. I've been buying up as much stock as possible, deleting the overflow, and listing what i have left at really high prices, but as i'm only doing it on one character, its have absolutely 0 impact on the market. Yes, i buy up alot of the salvage, yes my salvage then sells, but then i recheck the prices, and they are going for a fraction of what im listing at.
Its supply and demand. This salvage is so common that no matter how much money i throw into it, i will not control it all.
Whats affecting the PvP IOs *which mind you are the only ones peaking at 2+Billion each* is SUPPLY. These IOs are RARE. Actually, RARE is a understatement. You have a CHANCE to get a drop every 10 minutes, and it doesnt matter if you've gotten a drop or not, once you roll that chance, you have to WAIT 10 more minutes before you have another CHANCE to get it.
And even then, its a chance to get ANY PvP IO. So more often then not, your gonna get the one you don't want, and not one of the uniques. This is why the prices are so high. Not cornering. -
You do both. Marketing suppliments other forms of inf making, and with solid marketing, you can make more money then anything else. So.. if you add anything to it, (most marketing is actually best done AWAY from said markets, fill up your slots, and go kill stuff) then you make EVEN more money! Imagine that, a AFK way to make billions of inf, with very little work invested.
Who'd a thunk that, being able to make extra money, while not really doing anything at all.. -
Quote:Your really not getting it. the 'good stuff' you call it, isn't REQUIRED for ANYTHING. the 'good stuff' is really just SOs. you DO NOT NEED THE GOOD STUFF. so stop trying to equate need with want.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Again, I have run level 50 content. quite a bit. Probably 1/4 to 1/3 of my 42 months. That is prob pretty average. I alt a lot, maybe some people 50 more. I stay with one 50 when running SGs, farming, badging, etc. You are right in stating that my opinion comes across as a sense of entitlement. But read closely. What I keep asking about is why the Devs think that the drop rates/pricing structure is acceptable when the average player cannot afford the good stuff even for one toon after years of play. To me, from a business standpoint, it does not make sense. I understand they cater to the exclusive. Mazzerati, and lear jets have been thrown around. But seriously, to get this stuff the Devs want me to play 30 years? to pimp one toon? Hmmm, that math just seems wrong.
And plenty of people have shown you plenty of ways to get said 'good stuff' within DAYS. not YEARS. the Dev's don't set the prices. The Devs don't decide anything. the PLAYERS do. and the players are showing YOU how to get them good stuff (which again you don't actually need) in a very short amount of time. -
i do like how the OP doesnt really accept that the system isn't required as a reason why its attractive to new players.
Theres no 'you got a golden hood, it'll last your 2 months, until the platinum hood is made, then you have to grind out the gear for it'
You get IOs, you slot IOs and then your done, and the game isn't even balanced around IOs, you basically you get inf, you buy SOs (from a vendor, at decent prices, or from the market at dirt cheap prices) and your good to go. no grinding, no farming, nothing, just slot SOs and go have fun. -
Quote:Thing is, your still wrong and YOUR just not getting it.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Having stuff unavailable to average gamers does not improve the game quality. I have never said make stuff extremely available. I have simply calculated out how long it would take to get good high end stuff and identified a problem. I believe it needs to be addressed. I believe the game would be more attractive to more players if it was addressed. I have yet to hear a single cogent argument that postulates why the current system is attractive to new gamers. Probably a reason, or it could just be the quality of the respondents.
The reason the current system is attractive to new gamers is because ITS NOT REQUIRED!.
i mean really, you can completely ignore the market, inventions PvP and purple IOs COMPLETELY and still have a blast doing whatever you want. There are still plenty of builds out there that can solo AVs with SOs.
This entire game is balanced around ignoring the market/inventions/PvP and purple IOs, so why do you need them? Oh wait.. you DONT. -
Because its actually possible to get more then 6 high end recipes in less then 40 hours of actual game play. Heck, i could get more then 6 high end recipes in less then 5 hours of offline game play.
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Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I did not realize this game was called "City of Marketeers'. My bad, gonna need to find a heroes game somewhere.
So you want to buy the VERY SUPER HIGH END IOs, then complain because they are OMG VERY SUPER EXPENSIVE, and when told how to get them, you say 'OMG I DONT WANT TO DO THAT, I WANT THEM HANDED TO ME IN A HAND BASKET'
So.... whats the issue? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
Wow. You guys are really addicted to the fact that market prices need to be 2 billion, and that playing the market is how to make money.
Let me clue you in to a little fact. Most people who get this game want to create and run characters. Most of the people who play this game want to earn rewards with their characters.
Think about it. Think about marketing a game. It is a game, remember. Stay with me now. A game is supposed to be fun. You remember fun, right?
I also remember that this game is balanced around SOs, and 1 IO drop can set you for life on all your characters if all you purchase is SOs..
So you remember balance right? -
Quote:You do realize of course that the inf cap will just mean ALL the prices hit that cap? LoTGs, purples, miracles, numinas, all of the higher end things, because really, why sell any lower? 250 mil is basically childs pay to any capable marketeer (read, NOT FARMER) and whats stopping that fresh level 50 from getting a purple? hell, a level 47 can get a purple, you just can't use it til 50. So really, your 'ideas' already exist.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
couple of easy peasy fixes to the market.
A)Cap all market prices at 250 million. the only people who will cry about this are 1) Farmers 2) China Farmers 3) Farming China Farmers
B) Set it so that in an average 3 month playing at 50 content ( 20 hours per week let's call it, so 240 hours at 50 ) there is a 90% likelihood of getting 6 high end enhancers, purple or Pvp.
This will not crush the game system, and I can tell you why. As has been previously stated, It is a law of extremely diminishing returns. the more you throw of these high end things on one toon, the less you get back. even if 2/3 of 50s were purp'd and Pvp'd out, it would make little diff to content.
this will make your average gamer extremely happy. How nice for some 12 year old to get there first 50, a week later get a purp, sell it for 200 mil, and finance SOs for there next 25 alts for a year. Or be able to build a really nice toon in 6 months, by their own effort, without spending 60 hours a week running the same boring farm. wow, almost sounds fun. wait, i made it fun, danged, sorry Devs, I know you hate that.
Okay, kill fun. Make it even harder to get these things, cut the drop rate by half, and triple the merit costs for them, and please raise the market cap to 5 billion per sale. and the cap for cash on hand to 20 billion. You will make 14 people out there soooo happy. The rest of us can go pound sand.
Its called using everything available to you to achieve your goals. You've mentioned alot about china farmers, when ya know, i haven't gotten a single email or spam tell from a inf farmer in MONTHs, yet i've made about 4 billion inf, while logged out of the game working 40+ hours a week in my real life job... -
My bot/traps MM is decked out to the gills on PvP and purple IOs. Its taken me a little over 4 years to get her that way (from creation, to right now) I started her when i11 dropped, and the invention system was just new.
I can solo AVs/GMs/TFs and basically do anything the PvE enviroment can throw at me.
I also have about 10 other 50s, all of them with a decent enough IO build. Heck, while waiting for i18 to drop to live, i decked out all my level 50s with accolades and IO builds cuz i was bored. The money basically fell on me due to my marketing, smart buying, and just playing the game (not farming at all), so i really don't know how you came to the conclusion that people can't afford these prices.
Especially when the PLAYERS set the prices. People are obviously able to make hundreds of billions of inf to be able to pay for the prices the things are going for, as the devs have next to 0 control of what players want to pay for items.
Seriously, between A-merits, regular merits, increase in random drops due to mission completes, increased inf that 50s generate, random dayjob increase in drops, and the market itself, its really no wonder that prices are skyhigh, inflation is a pain, and i do so hope the Crazy 88s are really impacting prices are much as they would hope. -
basically i'd go with fire mastery, due to fiery embrace affecting fire damage, so fireball, and rain of fire get a higher damage bonus. That and ice slick + RoF would just be awesome.