Windenergy21

A little more of Case in Point.

Honestly it all comes down to opinions, even that of the devs. Which is why i wish they really would just allow us to create petitions and take votes on such matters.

Until a redname comes in the middle of a post like this, we're just left blindsided.

Like any authority they have to watch what they say especially in official updates. When they chime in these discussions they tend to be a little less formal and can iterate a little better the way things are and might possibly change, and how strict they are on such opinions for the future.

And its completely your opinion, that it shouldn't be mainly used for the regen buff, with the self heal just there so that it gives the regeneration time to work so you're not using it when your about to die anyways.

If it was designed mainly for the self heal, whatever bonus they added, i would NOT be expecting a 2 minute recharge for just a 25% base heal if thats the main focus.

And i am fairly sure i understand what you mean, but where did the term "cottage rule" come about?

why right now the only elec armor i can see myself playing is an elec/dm.

All sets are deteremined without the use of inspirations. They help you, but are not factored in to a sets survivability.

The end discount, with slotting end reduction in your powers and power sink, is easily unnecessary. I make most of my toons who really don't need any kind of end ability, so having one of any kind is more than enough. That tends to end up more as overkill.

And the heal, is NOT so good as you think it is. Its a normal 25% heal, but you are gravely forgetting that as the heal goes its on a 120 second base timer.

The regen is weaker than it should be you're right, which is why i'm saying for it to last for 60 seconds so its constant, that WOULD make the regen a much larger aspect of the power as it should be IMO. As mentioned the end discount can easily be brought down to compensate.

What does elec armor/ice melee have to do with a discussion on electric melee? Interesting combo though.

The heal of which, is on a 120 second base timer, no thanks. The end discount, with power sink in the set, not as much either. The regen, granting a consistent boost to survival, i hold in MUCH higher regard during actual combat.

Considering thats not Invulns only means of negating those debuffs, whereas elec armor, with zero defense it is, no.

Yes, a regen scrapper which has FOUR powers to use to help save his A#$, unlike elec armor, which functionally only has the one.

100% perma, isnt a low buff. When it is only on half the time, essentially making it only a 50% base buff overall, or you know 100%, then nothing for the next 30 seconds, easily long enough to die in a fight with nothing else to mitigate but the personally mediocre resists alone, i wouldnt consider it a "big" buff at all.

And i assure you, your assurance means nothing, when i've actually played the set at level 50 and 35 facing near every enemy type.

You seem to be mistaking just how easily enemy attacks with -recharge will stack up on you. On any toon i have with -recharge protection, even sometimes when i play my ice tank, i see the numbers go in the red negatives. The resistance lightning reflexes is for the most part a joke for how low it is.

While it obviously is more than other sets grant (note again invuln does grant btw) it is still VERY easily trumped.

Also, try going up against anything that has even the slightest hint of -regen, its not pretty. Death mages in any low-mid-late game CoT, any arachnos you fight, carnie dark ring mistresses, and master illusionsist dark servants. All will make energize just a 120s base recharge heal, ugh.

Why not:

FU > Focus > Strike > Slash > Strike > FU

or

FU > Focus > Slash > Strike > Eviscerate > FU


granted that i'm sure you did far more dps calculations that show that your chain is more DPS.

But realistically, your is a single target attack chain only for one, so even when soloing there are more than one enemy in your face, so adding shockwave, or spin is going to help a lot either way.

In either case, the dps is still decent with said attack chains, and lets you skip hasten, and cp, and pick up FA, physical perfection, and drop weave.

I think its more than a fair trade off to have to add one more attack in to your chain before you use follow up again.

agreed completely. They would need to at least

A: let us skip the tier 1/2 prerequisites on pool powers or

B: fix the animations of all boxing/kick to work for all weapons sets to not cause redraw

Now which do you think would be a CRAPTON easier for the devs to implement?

I'd say option A

agreed, which my suggestion a post or two above this suggest JUST the way to do this exactly so that we are all happy with the result.

Wrong, i would take hurdle EVERY time. The mobility it gives with combat jumping, can NEVER be skipped in any of my builds. Being able to move that fast in and out of melee IS part of an optimized build in lots of situations where actually gettting to an enemy matters.

And as to the whole skipping the first tier, the easiest solution:

If you do skip the first tier of a pool set, the subsequent higher tier powers would be less effective. If you picked up the first power of the tier, they would be at their normal values.

For example:

If you picked up boxing + tough

Tough: slotted = 17.1% resistance on a scrapper

If you picked up just tough only

Tough: 12% resistance on a scrapper

That way there is still incentive to pick up the prerequisites in a power pool set, while still letting you skip the prerequisite if you wanted to.

And i'm also with bill, that the big downfall if skipping pre-requisites were gone, is that we still dont have any extra slots to go around. That's going to hold us back more than anything.

"having more "slots" now due to IOs" goes easily out the window when you are trying to go for certain set bonuses.

Otherwise my health would only be 3 slotted, not 5, stamina only 3 slotted not 4 etc. So i'm already losing a bunch of slots in the process, take away pre-requisites, i'd be losing even more. So i think the trade-off is more than fair.

Well, i just gave you the recharge values on the attacks without hasten. Have at it! lol

So i was right, you did get hasten, that explains it pretty much all right there as to why you don't have the power choice available to you.

Grr mids is messed up with the unofficial version so i have to calculate each of these but:

Strike: 1.55 seconds
Slash: 2.32 seconds
Follow Up: 5.36 seconds
Focus: 2.86 seconds
Eviscerate: 3.84 seconds
Spin: 3.99 seconds
Shockwave: 5.29 seconds

These are the recharge values on the attacks without hasten in my build. I really fail to see where hasten is needed in this equation.

If you check my IOs, it caps without weave, so that saves you a power slot there, skipping hasten saves you a power slot. Then you're free to pick up focused accuracy slotted, and physical perfection slotted. With claws + the end reduction in this build + bonuses + numina unique + slotted physical perfection, i'd really fail to see where you'd need conserve power as well. (just because you have FA doesnt mean you'll always need it, youll still get the 2.5% defense bonuses from it either way)

Not sure if your build uses them but mine uses no purples as well which i'm always a fan of not using and still getting an amazing build without.

Spreadsheet, versus actually playing with the set. I think i'd trust my own judgement on this one. I'm a big numbers guy, and BARELY over fire armor levels of resistance for a heal that recharges in 3 times the lenght of healing flames for a short duration low regeneration buff. Is clearly not enough IMO.

As to Vs Sr and shields and invuln, you also are GRAVELY mistaking, the fact that those sets have high defense, which means you are going to be taking on the elec FULL secondary effects of EVERY SINGLE ATTACK that the enemies are throwing at you, as elec armor has zero defense to its name. The simplest -rech, and lightning reflexes is already thrown out the window and you're in the negatives.

-resistance, -REGEN, and -defense debuffs will all hit you with ease, making you even more vulnerable.

AS mentioned, the scrappers already have a lower base HP, and lower base resist/def values etc to begin with. I REALLY don't see the reason for scrappers to have a lower resistance cap as well, consdering outside of tier 9s, theyll never hit it anyways except for maybe very specified situations like energy on elec, and fire on fire armor.

Per SR and shieldds, you also can't get near the survivability when IOs are added into the equation that they can when stacking the positional defenses. Not that IOs should factor in to the base mitigation of a set, they never should. But elec is clearly outflanked in this regard as well.

P.S. i still see no reason why elemental defense bonuses are not as high as positional defenses.

There is a way, but i can't remember how. If you ever notice lots of people running around with superspeed, or fly, but without taking hasten/flurry or hover/as though. I thought it was a vet reward, but i'm only i think 2 rewards behind on my account right now and haven't heard of it from the 2 i don't have.

Also, look at my build, it still caps defense without taking weave. Don't forget, while you may not really "need" focused accuracy, its a terrific place for the 2.5% defense bonuse to all 3 positional types. Its how my build caps without weave, which is VERY nice. Letting you not have to skip a power, and picking up physical perfection.

Honestly, i'd like to see the builds you both are using, the ONLY power i can see you thinking you need to not have the power options open to you is hasten, where like i said, this is probably one of my top 5 builds in the game, that i think doesn't need hasten.

Edit: so its the 60 month? oh joy thats only like 11 days away for me! yay :P

Why does your build not have room for eviscerate??? Did you pick up energy torrent or hasten maybe?

I dunno, the build i posted caps defense, and has good recharge on all powers so i dont see hasten ever being needed, especially with claws. The build i posted still gets spin after double follow up every time so, i just dont understand lol.

I would never skip eviscerate personally. I love the animation, but even aside from that, after they increased the damage and the range to 7ft instead of 5, its SUCH a nice power to kill things, and is ultimately IMO the best power to help you kill fast, it gets an extra critical chance as well, that will easily hit 5 enemies.

After testing the set thoroughly, i can easily see this being sufficiently waged as to having it happen as far as performance goes. I'd only probalby side with you due to the devs being lazy and not wanting to change it at this point after working on all of i16 up till now.

The regen, would be sufficient to last that long for the value it gives. The problem comes with the end discount, which is resolved by dropping it down to 30% discount as it lasts twice as long for the same overall effectiveness.