Yogi_Bare
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I was being sarcastic.Originally Posted by Scythus
Fortunately neither of you have any say in the development of this game, as I'm actually looking forward to Staff Fighting. If they come up with more simian costume pieces and a flying cloud travel power, it'd be perfect to make a Journey into the West tribute character with.
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Quote:lol, I'm not concerned about them... I get what the intent was even if the mechanics behind it needs to be tweaked (as I've already stated multiple times) or even its presentation (as others have pointed out) or a bit of both. I've chosen not to let the mechanics get in the way of what the intent was on having the civvies in the mish in the first place. Selective suspension of disbelief.Originally Posted by Ogi
Then if anti-tank missiles can't hurt your pacified squishy WHY SHOULD MERE ROCKS EVEN BE A CONCERN?
I was fortunate enough to be on a good team for our first few runs and our issue was never getting put down by rocks or even getting curb-stomped by Maelstrom. Our issue was us not killing the civilians. -
Quote:My squishy hasn't had problems either way... so whatever.Originally Posted by Ogi
You're still pacified in the building.
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Quote:Just be glad those same missiles weren't in the same portion of that part of the mission.Originally Posted by Ogi
Staff fighting will be how the Battalion takes down our incarnates, duh.
Before Incarnating my WP Tanker could be knee deep in RPGs and Missiles and not see his health drop. Now that he's "stronger", rocks, from Hellion-fodder civvies, are a threat while the anti-tank missiles are just as weak as before, ON THE SAME MISSION. -
Quote:Both statements are misnomer's:Originally Posted by Ogi
Balder (a god) was killed by mistletoe, so our incarnates should be afraid of twigs too.
Sticks and stones won't break a normal hero's bones but incarnates must run for cover.
Baldur could've been actually killed by anything prior to the quest to make him invulnerable to all things; if Loki wouldn't have intervened then Baldur could well have been Norse mythology's only immortal.
And
Sticks and stones will and do break normal heroes' bones (especially if you're a squishy) otherwise, the Staff Fighting powerset would kind of be a moot point (I move to strike development on it on the basis that its just a stick, and as such, not a legitimate tool for the super that's serious about actually causing bodily harm (and restrict players that use it from ever becoming an Incarnate, again, because its a stick); then there's the whole Scrapyarders, Dockworkers and Luddite thing. -
Quote:It's even been suggested that Goliath was Nephilim. So a demi-god being brought down by a rock is not unheard of.Originally Posted by Scythus
Hell, a lot of gods from mythology weren't immortal. You had deities getting hacked and mangled left and right. Celtic, Egyptian, Norse, Sumerian, Mayan, Japanese; none were safe from death.
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Quote:The Matrix series does this:Originally Posted by Kitsune9tails
I think it's a perspective thing.
From the Dev's perspective (I imagine), it's not a 'numpty with a rock' doing the, er, heavy lifting. It's the Telepathists psychically convincing you that you can be defeated by a thrown rock, which is arguably comic-book-sensible.
Since they designed the trial, and this element makes total sense to them, they thought it would be self-evident to the players as well, and did not make the Telepathists' effect on the situation graphically and dramatically convincing enough to counter our own perspective on how powerful our characters should be in the narrative.
If you see Superman in the comics get hurt by a thrown rock due to telepathic interference, you think, "Someone came up with an interesting way around Superman's invulnerability! Golly gee, how will he get out of this one?"
But when it happens to YOU, that's not going to be your first reaction. Like Superman himself, you are going to think, "HAX!"
Welll maybe Superman wouldn't think exactly that
but you get the idea.
It's something that often happens to writers; since they are looking at their story from the 'backstage side', they occaisionally have to be reminded that some story elements are not as obvious or convincing before you know the dark secret behind it.
Primarily you have a group of people that get plucked from their existence in a dual dimension. Their subsequent training then allows them to be superhuman when brought back into the 'mundane' virtual. For all intents and purposes... the Incarnates (at least for the first movie) would be the Agents (who were surprised accordingly when the pre-incarnate Neo was able to fight them off (possibly the same expression when Seraph escaped them). This would be the same shock that 'Incarnate' Neo would express during the fight with the 'vampires' when they nicked his hand.
But the quote from the Matrix that most sums up the TPN is, "The mind makes it real."
As far as the discrepancy between the outdoor and indoor portions of the mission - outside, image is everything; you're being goaded to cause civilian casualties - its a shell game for the Praetorian forces (just like the BAF plans were). Inside, you're behind the curtain of the great and powerful Oz.
All they need to do is tweak the mechanic (and/or story presentation) of the 'stone-throwing-devils' and call it good. The tactic is legitimate, mechanically sound and has precedence in any mission that involves mobs similar to GBs and Wailers (or any character that can drop a Tar Patch beneath them.
The argument that somehow wet-behind-the-ears Incarnates are above all reproach is still bollocks with me. Even the Norse gods weren't immortal. -
Quote:I've played while nodding off at my keyboard as well as when half-drunk, that aside, you've:Originally Posted by Gangrel_EU
But wouldnt you say that say that "fun" is subjective?
I have to admit that although the normal TF's in general are fun, they end up being "huge sack of HP at end"... something which i *do not* find fun.
I actually want to have to move my characters, i want to have to *react* to a situation, instead of just being able to play completely drunk, unable to see the keyboard and *Still not die* [1]
This is why i do actually like the iTrials... Hell if it takes gimmicks to get people to move around the place (and yes i do include Apex/Tin Mage as the better TF's for this), then i am all for them.
[1] Yes, i have actually done this... i did have a huge drink problem a few years ago, and was still able to play the game without dying due to how basic the combat was...
1. brought up a point that I'm in agreement on; more dimension to what basically amounts to a "pretty button masher"
2. revisited a position I've seen before; more challenge =/= a bigger sack of schlitz.
Hell, if that's all people want is more HP wrapped in a prettier, bigger or more twisted package then just cut the BS and give them a bunch of basic chumps with more DEF, RES, HP and Regen (and make them hit for more and more damage) with no gimmicks available to overcome these progressively larger 'challenges' (or just let all the Incarnate content revolve around spitting out maps full of EBs, AVs and GMs) -
Quote:Thanks again for looking into this and the response.Originally Posted by Codewalker
Yeah, Ranged_DeBuff_ToHit is supposed to be -0.1 for a level 50 Praetorian Lt. So the final value should be -30%. However due to a longstanding design flaw some of the newer tables aren't being loaded.
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Quote:It goes from this:Originally Posted by Codewalker
Any easy way to tell if the entity you're looking at is affected is to change the archetype to "Unspecified". If the numbers don't change, then they're probably wrong.
Quote:+300% ToHit for 10s
If (source.kHeld <= 0) and (source.kStun <= 0) and (source.kSleep <= 0)
Effect does not stack from same caster
to this:
Quote:300 Ranged_DeBuff_ToHit% ToHit for 10s
If (source.kHeld <= 0) and (source.kStun <= 0) and (source.kSleep <= 0)
Effect does not stack from same caster -
Thanks for investigating guys... I'll try out your suggestion, CW.
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Quote:What I think is irrelevant if the power is bugged. Which is what I'm asking.Originally Posted by _Pine_
Do you really think that their hurricane caps the mobs around them's to hit buff?
I'm hoping that this is not the case and that the Tomax info is the only thing that's in error.
And stranger things have happened. -
I think the argument against 'the well' is getting converged from two points that are independent of each other:
The sentience of The Well vs. The Well as the source of all power.
Sentience aside; the well seems to be akin to any number of blanket terms that cover the underlying energy behind all things: The Force, Cosmic Energy, The Source... whatever one chooses to call it; the devil is in the details and one of the main details is the manipulation of that energy to achieve a desired effect.
At its most basic, subjectively; its what keeps our mundane going. Objectively its an Escher illustration that coils in and out of its self; giving glimpses into both Order and Chaos dependent on the observers point(s) of fixation.
No matter what personal path of manipulation one chooses (or is forced) to take; the source energy is the same; although the point(s) of fixation from which it is drawn may be different.
So, although the source energy [that] keeps the planet of X and the Triple 8 plane from collapsing into non-existence is the same; it may be being observed differently. Heck, the microcosm of Planet X may not have been discovered fully; with each of its microcosms [that are] being [] observed; observed [and subsequently used] differently (assuming that each of the microcosms that exist could be observed or subsequently used in the first place).
While one group mundanely carries themselves through the fluxing construct of the source; another has figured out a way to manipulate one point of fixation on the planet of X through one fixed point of method (Hermetic magic, Shamanic magic, mental focus (of varying degree) to achieve something more than just the mundane. Yet another has found that their point of fixation is one of the gates to the Triple 8 plane; leading to yet another point (or group of points) of fixation.
The source hasn't changed; the source hasn't retconned any player's back story.
That stance is wholly flawed.
The sentience of the source energy (in this case, The Well) has yet to be fully revealed so much of the nerd-raging may actually be for nothing... (at least until everything has been revealed. -
Quote:If this is from the Detailed Info, the inquiry may still need to be verified. Every so often they don't match up with the in-game values (like when the updates for the new Interface powers first went live... or maybe Beta (or both) (I can't recall which had the discrepancy).Originally Posted by _Pine_
Numbers from Storm Elemental Radial Superior Ally
Creates Pet Monsoon Elemental Essence for 5m 0s
Base Hitpoints: 469.96
+Resistance
+O2 Boost
-Hurricane
Accuracy:1.00X
Power Type:Auto
Target Type:Self
Effect Area:AoE -- 25.00 ft. radius (16 targets max)
Attack Types:AoE
-60.00% strength to range on target Ignores buffs and enhancements
-30.00% to hit on target
5.00% chance for 2.00 magnitude knockback on target
The other thing is... I'm not sure how Red Tomax data is gathered, posted and updated to their site. If it's a straight data-mine; then this should definitely be looked into. -
I was looking through what Red Tomax's guide has on Incarnate power values and noticed that the Hurricane power for the Monsoon Elemental Essence is listed as +300% ToHit; unlike the Storm Summoning's version of Hurricane for Controllers (which is listed at -30%).
Is this an actual in-game bug or are the Tomax Guide numbers kinda wonky? -
Quote:Originally Posted by Aggelakis
What does this even mean? Rez is short for resurrection, you want to be protected against resurrection??? Buh??? I meant mez, lol
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Quote:Originally, I was thinking along these lines but I'm kinda catering to the crowd that believes that their toons should be more innately Incarnate; not just a level 50 with more powers to choose from.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
I'd rather this be activated by another slot.
Personally, I hoping one of the slots is a selection of Incarnate Auras which mechanizes the Presence an Incarnate would display merely by entering the vicinity.
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Quote:Their recharge is affected by bonuses to recharge plus you're using it in conjunction with your Judgement, Destiny and potential teammates buffs (regular and/or Incarnate). You also have insps available to you and I would hope that on a Trial team, some of the Hero types had the sense to pick up 'Call to Justice' to help out with your damage output (or you with Frenzy; if a villain).Originally Posted by ElementalFury
I wasn't referring to judgements, I was referring to the two badge powers he listed. (Demonic and force of nature) Those last 1 minute then take 25 to recharge.
And it's kind of irrelevant if it takes 25 minutes to recharge; use it (DA) as a panic button if you need to. You're a squishy Blaster; don't take any tools for granted.
[As an NRG Blaster, I would suggest (if you have slots available) slotting Force Feedback procs (AoEs first, then quick recharge STs); if you can't increase your DPS with raw power then do it with speed] -
As an Incarnate Inherent ability (as long as a character has any of their Incarnate Slots equipped); a bonus to Max HP, Max HP cap, Max End and Damage cap (possibly even raising Movement Speed caps)? (Independent of any bonuses that may come from active Incarnate slotting)
The above set at a fixed percentage value (no matter what's slotted) or a percentage-per-equipped slot value?
[PS - Now I'm just being a tad greedy... either a +1 mag [m]ez protection bonus, a small [m]ez +resis percentage bonus or both?] -
Quote:With 12-23 other Incarnates sitting around and some decent leadership; there should be some staggerable Destiny powers available to you.Originally Posted by ElementalFury
Those two powers only last for a single minute then take 25 to recharge, not really seeing how much help they'd be in a trial overall.
Stagger your Aim and BU. For your nuke, eat a couple of blues. I have a /Kin corr that uses the same judgement and probably spends more time near melee range because she's a /Kin. Unless you're dropping a ton of AoE powers, a Tank should be able to pull some of the aggro off of you (if you start getting more aggro/damage than your melee/AoE heavy escort(s); dance out of range.Quote:Aim and BU are indeed great, however they crap out after about two attacks. I'm an energy blaster so using my nuke on a trial boss would require me -diving into the pit where all the AoE attacks are raining down-. Even if I get it off my end is now completely drained and I'm completely out of the fight for 30-45 seconds until my end recovers a decent amount. The judgement you recommended requires the same. I have musculature but not reactive. The highest reactive debuff you can have on an enemy is 10% So if my snipe is doing 300 damage, it now does 330. Woop. De. Doo. If you're referring to the DoT thats even worse against an AV. And standing next to the tank in a battle is the opposite of everything a blaster is meant and should do, I have no idea what you mean by dancing but no amount of dancing will keep me from dying when a massive AoE is dropped on the tank's head with me standing next to them.
Nothing is 100% foolproof and in an environ where even the Tanks are crying about getting put down; you're probably going to die anyhow. Hosp and soldier up. -
Quote:Nobody should be getting weaker when compared to the core content; the Trials aren't core content. The Devs may have made a mistake by limiting the availability of Incarnate content but that content is still not the core of the game.Originally Posted by ElementalFury
Bingo, with incarnate powers all the melee classes had their most glaring weakness negated, the ability to damage things far away and with the new batch of alphas a way to increase their survivability even more. As a blaster I still have all the exact same downsides as I did before incarnates and am actually finding my one strength, ranged damage, to be getting weaker and weaker as the trials progress, and my weaknesses to be getting worse and worse.
And the impression I'm getting is that everyone's getting 'weaker'; regardless of AT, when referring to progressively newer Trials (using the older Trials as a basis of comparison; we're still getting stronger (or at least more utilitarian).
There are tools you can use to increase your survivability; (I primarily use squishy Incarnates) you just have to want to use them. A lot of people get tied up in concept and theme (or too vested in a single path) despite the fact that the Incarnate system is intentionally set up to allow players more flexibility and utility when confronted with diverse obstacles.
Between T2+ Barrier and T2+ Void; you should be able to bump up your survivability quite a bit and there are other avenues outside of Incarnate abilities. I try to ensure that all of my toons get Demonic Aura (especially my squishies) and Force of Nature (so I can get what I need up faster).
And you shouldn't be having issues with damage as a Blaster: 2 Aim/BU powers, a nuke (my corr's nuke is better than any judgement power), Judgement plus access to Musculature and Reactive... just hang close to a Brute or Tank and learn to dance a little. -
Quote:Would probably be better to do a Taunt rather than an 'Affect Self Only'; you still have stuff you need to do and a limited time to do it in without sacrificing the ability to buff/heal teammates while 'distracted'.Originally Posted by MaestroMavius
To achieve the desired storytelling effect, without the need to have players be killed, is tricky.
I can see what they wanted to do. Get the notion of the populace being against us to be more than just a meter but I think the insta-death rocks, even when explained as being buffed with psionics, are just to jarring.
Perhaps instead of killing the players, the rocks lay on a 'only affecting self' that hits you briefly. Simulating the step back, having to think about the situation. As these rocks pelt harmlessly off you, the civi's don't care that they can't hurt you, they hate you...
Make the debuff stack, so the more rocks hit, the longer the only affecting self lasts.
We aren't plastered by a mere mortal chunking a pebble but are instead shaken by their emotional resonance.
Another option could be to change the damage dealt to something along the lines of Spectral Wounds (mind makes it worse than it actually is)
A third option would be to expand on the Spectral Wounds angle and have the civvies actually be civilian constructs (specialized Phantom Army) created by the Seers. As far as the character (and the Praetorian Television) is concerned; the civs are real - with real consequences for trying to bash their little faces in... but the Seers know what the real deal is. -
Just to get away from the debate a bit... I think that the TPN would make a good mid-level trial (25-35 range) for Praetorian characters (as suggested by another poster).
I was thinking that the Devs invested a lot of time into creating, what was supposed to be, a big world expansion but the content that's actually accessible in it is extremely limited. Making a few tweaks (NPC strength, drops, reward tables, etc) so that the TPN would be viable as a mid-level Praetorian trial would help to wash its hand of the Prometheus link (which Prometheus seems to want anyhow). It would allow the mechanics within it to come off better with the playerbase and also nestle in nicely with the established Praetorian themes. -
Quote:Players in the game have been doing that hence all of the nerfs and exploit fixes within the AE (and core) systems, safeguards to the email systems and the like,Originally Posted by ElementalFury
Well players in this game can't do that
Frostfire does get up to godlike status in the Morality MissionsQuote:however the devs already have, see Maelstrom. He goes from a threat slightly more powerful than frostfire
There has never been a villain, set of villains or a villain group that has ramped up their weapons, training, resources or military to the point of being able to pose threats that are waay beyond their normal abilities (requiring the protagonist to do the same or be assisted by some plot device)? Honestly?Quote:to suddenly being able to travel through time and space and deliver hyperspace kicks that will kill anyone not a tank in a single hit.
Kinda like Prometheus 'snapping his fingers' with us. You have no clue of everything that's happened behind the scenes; perhaps he's gone through some kind of unknown incarnate trial of his own (or maybe he's sipped some of the same inst-drink that bumped up Statesman and Recluse to godlike status at a snap of a finger...Quote:How? Cole snapped his fingers.
This is about the only thing I can agree with here.Quote:Oh and he has special bullets that can kill anyone in one hit, no exceptions.
To me its more of the engine, mechanics and established content starting to show its age. There's a fine thread between the players steamrolling the content and the content steamrolling the players and the lean is in the favor of the player... its always in favor of the player. No matter what wonky mechanics the devs throw at you; it can always be overcome. Not a single Trial presented has the 'undefeatable' hallmark of a 'Killer DM'.Quote:It's feeling more and more like we're playing with a DM who's realized his players are well coordinated and powerful and rather than try to come up with unique adventures that would still entertain all even if the constant dread of death wasn't lingering over all of it, he just gives up and throws pages of the manual at them until the players get bored and roll up new characters.
I actually like this analogy but the thing is... I keep getting laid at all these frat partiesQuote:Comparing things like the SSAs, normal missions, TFs and trials is like comparing two dining events. The first three are a small get together with a few close friends. You leave feeling full and generally content. Trials are chugging a keg at a frat party you wandered into. It's over in minutes and you leave confused, with a headache and no idea what the hell happened along with the urge to throw up. -
Quote:There's a lot of poor heroic fiction, even in people's favorite stories. Someone is always duct-taping a hyper-warp drive, miraculously deciphering some code or ancient text, conveniently bending or breaking some established moral code, showing up in the nick of time (over and over and over again), etc.; in order for the story to have a 99.9% happy ending rate.Originally Posted by JChaos
I take offense at this statement. This is how an abundance of POOR heroic fiction works.
Stargate, specifically the Ori Storyline of the last season on the Air: I stopped watching because it was plainly clear that one miserable MacGuffin would make the difference between being able to stop this all powerful force, and utter defeat. Worse yet, even when everyone knew where and what it was, the series was still dragged out for half a season to get us there, for no other reason than to kick everyone around.
Star Trek, specifically the Dominion War: AGAIN, the only apparent way to win was... a disease, I think? Yes, I know there was more going on in the end, but the last two seasons were so poorly written that a lot of fans were turned off of DS9 by them, to say nothing of that ending. And we just won't go into later series...
Star Wars: Uh... what? What improbable plot device? Even in the new, horrid trilogy, the war was completely independent of much of what was going on with the main characters, short of "Order 66" which would have been caught had anyone bothered to READ SOME DOCUMENTATION ON THE CLONING. (Grossly oversimplified, but really, if we get into a Star Wars debate, we've all already lost.)
Independence Day: The problem was solved by a human's primitive computer virus obliterating an entire alien fleet's security. Does anyone, at all, EVER believe this was a good thing for this movie? I honestly believe that the only reason it was in there was because without it, the writers had no way to let humanity survive. Which, you know, was KINDA THE POINT. They had a brilliant opportunity with Area 51, a means of researching the aliens (Which they had been doing since ROSWELL, don't forget), and giving us a way to fight back at the eleventh hour. And what do they do with it? They give the heroes a Taxi to the mother ship.
The good stories are the ones that are hard fought and believable, even if it requires a little suspension of disbelief. The good stories are the ones where the heroes give as good as they get, where they've got victories where they hit the ENEMY just as badly as the enemy's hit them.
Maybe there's a wide array of fiction that requires the use of a MacGuffin to get anything done. That doesn't make it good. More often than not that makes it cheap, uninteresting, and a blatant example of padding out a series and stringing along viewers. And if that's the inspiration that you hope that CoH draws from, I don't want to play the game that you want to play.
Its nothing new and not limited to the examples you're choosing to lean on; even within the same set of series. Its a consequence of maintaining an episodic series with the same characters over a long period of time and its been around since Lassie and the Lone Ranger.
Stargate SG-1 pulls this almost every episode. Star Trek's been doing it since Scotty was the engineer. Star Wars (Han Solo showing up out of the blue to shake off a 'dark side of the force' Incarnate so that neonate Luke can make a single lucky shot that blows up a moon sized battle fortress). Smaug having an arrow-sized patch along his underside. If you're slamming Independence Day; then you're also slamming War of the Worlds (of which it's a blatant rip-off of; down to the 'virus'). GI Joe always beating COBRA no matter what the plan is. James Bond is the plot device. The list goes on and on.
This is why I usually root for the bad guy; they tend to have the better planning, power and resources but always get foiled by some 'MacGuffin' b-s.
Its the very definition of most televised, motion picture and gaming heroic fiction.