Zyphoid

Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei

Need specifically referring to the context in which the discussion surrounded. Merit as in stalkers needing a buff in the eye of the devs.

Originally Posted by EvilGeko

Nonsense. There is exactly ONE AT in this game that isn't currently overpowered and that's Blasters. And there are several threads going on about that already. The Scrapper AT has no unique properties, unless you count having no unique properties as a unique property.

Defenders got an inherent originally simply to give them an inherent. It was buffed for QOL reasons to give the preeminent group AT a little help solo. So yes, I think it's quite warranted for Scrapper to get a QOL change here. Both to give the AT something unique and now that I think of it, to give them a little help in teams.

This isn't going away. It became inevitable once players of other ATs which needed no help decided they were going to go for it all. Well, they got it. Now my Scrappers, some of whom predated the ATs in question want some of their uniqueness back.

Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane

The same Positron that instituted ED, that caused the game to take it's steepest population dip ever? Oh yes, that was Positron, not Jack. Jack couldn't spreadsheet his way out of a paper bag, something like ED was beyond him. Posi masterminded ED and GDN from all accounts, all Jack did was take the flak for it.


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Originally Posted by Xiang Shao

Just... let it go guys.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Hmmmm, maybe there could be something here.

Tanks and Brutes have a 5 target Taunt, because they are set up to hold agro.

Stalkers have Placate, because they are set up to avoid agro.

Scrappers aren't really designed to do either of those things as a primary function, as evidenced by the fact that only a few of their secondaries have a taunt aura in them.

It's also true that Confront is the most universally skipped power out of all Scrapper primaries.

How about a tweak to how Confront works? In it's current form it is just a single-target version of the Taunt that Tankers and Brutes have.

I had an idea of how it could be adjusted without drastically affecting anything.

Here goes:

Make it more like an "Intimidation" power. The Scrapper has called out his target, making it clear that he is coming for that target specifically. This rattles the target, causing their attacks to be slightly less accurate and (maybe) slightly less damaging for a time.

And I mean Accuracy, not To Hit. Specifically, a debuff that counteracts Accuracy bonuses that NPCs get for being higher rank or higher level. The catch there would be that if the target does not have an accuracy bonus, the debuff does nothing, making it rather pointless to use on minions.

Since AVs get a 50% accuracy buff, the lowest their final To-Hit will ever get is 7.5% as opposed to the 5% of most other critters. If Intimidation* gave a 50% debuff to that accuracy, it would reduce the AV's Accuracy bonus to 25%, effectively lowering their To-Hit floor to 6.25% instead of 7.5%.

Interestingly enough, this effect would be more valuable the lower your defense is. If you're already softcapped, the AV's accuracy bonus is applied to 5%. If you have no defense at all, it is applied to 50%. Normally, an AV attacking a Scrapper with 0% defense will hit 75% of the time. Using Intimidation on that AV will reduce the final To Hit from 75% to 62.5% instead (if that debuff was 50%)

It would still function as a Taunt, because it would be dumb to ignore a guy who just said he's coming for YOU, but the Accuracy debuff would replace the -range debuff found in Tanker and Brute Taunt (and Confront as well). And since it woudl still function as a Taunt, any Scrapper who took it and slotted it with a taunt set will not have to change their build.

50% might be (and probably is) too strong, I just used that to illustrate what I'm talking about.

It would be something that no other AT has, that relates to the "traditional" role of the Scrapper (attacking single hard targets). And if done correctly it won't really affect performance in a really noticeable way (because reducing To Hit from 7.5% to 6.25% isn't a huge improvement, and it probably would not be that strong anyway).

The other catch is, time spent using this ability is time that could be spent attacking instead, leaving the Scrapper with the choice of whether he wants to reduce his enemy's accuracy against him or attack. Most Scrapper players I know would choose to attack again, and STILL skip this power, so it probably would not end up being game-breaking at all.

The other idea I had is give Scrappers the ability to apply a minor regen debuff when they land 2 Critical Hits on the same target within a given time span. Make the time span long enough and the debuff small enough that it will only really come into play against something that survives more than a few hits from the Scrapper in the first place.

I dunno, that's just my idea. Don't think it's really necessary, but it would be kind of cool for the Scrapper Taunt to work slightly differently from Tanker and Brute Taunt, to reflect their slightly different role (not really meant to take agro for a team). And 99% of Scrappers will probably still skip it anyway

*I don't have a name in mind for it, so I went with Intimidation.

Originally Posted by Hopeling

Stalkers having some meaningful pros vs their meaningful cons compared to Scrappers isn't a sign that Scrappers are a joke, though. That's a sign that Stalkers are no longer a joke. EG asserting that Placate & Hide more than make up for the health difference and etc does not make it actually true, at least not for every character in every situation.

Originally Posted by blueruckus

Honestly, this whole "scrappers need love" campaign kinda just surged within the past few days. I'm still trying to wrap my head around the whole thing but can't help but feel this is one big April Fool's joke in the making. What other logical explanation would there be?

Originally Posted by firespray

The ONLY thing that I'd really like to see done to scrappers is replace the stupid useless confront power in every primary with something useful.

You could even take confront away from scrappers and give it to brutes in place of taunt, so that tanks could feel special since they would have a better aggro management power than brutes.

Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei

QFT despite the current 4 chan attack.

Originally Posted by Rockshock

I mean its much hated by me. It seems to be the new fitness pool before it became inherant. No matter what your power set, you have to sacrifice 2 to 3 power slots just to get this into your build.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

Scrappers are fine, and far from useless. And I say this without irony, having already admitted that I was wrong in the thread I referenced.

Originally Posted by Draeth Darkstar

How does the DPS of KM compare to StJ? Just looking at the sets it seems like StJ should be the top dog by miles because of how the combo system interacts with the new AS, and the fact that KM's tier9 doesn't do extra damage on crits.

Originally Posted by Dz131

Marital Arts

Originally Posted by Bloodspeaker

Yeah, I can see how it could be a huge bit of emotional baggage to overcome for some people.

Originally Posted by Arcanaville

They were not. Every archetype inherent was explicitly added for one reason only, to address a perceived weakness or deficiency of the archetype, until Vigilance. Gauntlet, Defiance, Criticals, and Containment were all added not for flavor, but to correct a deficiency. But when four of the five archetypes gained inherents, Defenders claimed they were *denied* an inherent as if they were left out, so the devs added Vigilance. Really, although the devs wouldn't admit it at the time, just to get the players to shut up.

It wasn't until CoV archetypes were created that the devs decided to take the concept of inherent powers and extend them to add differentiating features to the archetypes. But even there, in some cases they were more placeholders than anything else. The stalker inherent, for example, was just a description of a subset of its actual powers. That would be like calling Range the blaster inherent. And originally the Mastermind inherent was less than now: bodyguard was added later (the original was supremacy without bodyguard).

In both cases, the inherent powers were not "perks." Perks implies its something extra. Stalkers didn't get hide, placate, and assassins strikes as a perk. They got hide, placate, and assassin's strike as their central set of powers. Brutes didn't get fury as a perk, they were originally designed to start low and build higher. Its just that fury has been the subject of bad balancing coupled with historical inertia.

Gauntlet is not a perk. Gauntlet is an omission by the devs they should not have presumed all tankers would take the presence pool. Defiance is not a perk. Defiance is the consolation prize Blasters get for being designed to be dead. Assassination is not a perk, containment is not a perk. And really; fury, scourge, supremacy, and domination are not perks either.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

I don't need a Ferrari either.

That has never stopped me from wanting one.

Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect

If something is the only one of something, it is, by definition.......unique.

Originally Posted by Aura_Familia

We'll have to agree to disagree on this point. NO, I do not agree that every AT needs a unique mechanic, especially when it's essentially not needed in terms of balance. I like that we have ONE AT that has the main goal of "punch things in the face in melee, the end."

Especially NOW that we have new players to the game. It's nice to have one AT that you can point them to that isn't complicated or doesn't need a write up to explain. I think EVERY mmo needs at least ONE class like that. I don't see anything wrong with that.

Originally Posted by Bosstone

They should? Any reason why?
That makes them unique then, doesn't it?

Seems to me it's useful to have an AT without gimmicks for the people who don't like the other ATs' gimmicks. I know there's folks who might play Brutes except that they dislike Fury, or want a damage dealer but they don't like Stalkers' stealth mechanics. And the balanced nature of Scrappers is a selling point in and of itself.

Scrappers have plenty to recommend them as they are. They really don't need a bell or whistle. The lack of one, and the lack of need for one, is what makes them special.

Originally Posted by Darth_Khasei

It does not matter, they want something because another AT was brought up to speed and no amount of logic or lack of need is going to stop the whining and begging by certain parties.