xxMURxx

Probably because ToF isn't a power in the spines primary.

DM can easily be the most scrappy stalker build available aside from claws. The combination of TOF and Siphon Life + debuffs and the relatively fast recharge of SM and Shadow Punch allows for survivability and a fairly decent amount of burst and DOT damage. The main issue that I have had though comes from the amount of endurance these attacks consume. I have tested out a DM/EA stalker build with good results. TOF followed by ED is nice.

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After playing Dark Melee for four hours in RV yesterday, I am still impressed with its performance. Midnight Grasp criticals are great. The crit damage is all negative energy - a huge plus. Assassin's Eclipse is great, of course. I skipped Shadow Maul, which I've never really liked. The animation bugs me. Not having it in my build was no problem at all.

Getting an AS off in RV was tough at times, due to the tremendous lag of my machine and the test server. MM Thugs could practically freeze my machine at times. I was able to kill a few heroes with AS, and it was very satisfying due to the fact that many heroes could see me with Hide on. I don't feel the need to use Invisibility on top of Hide in RV. I was fine without it. It's more exciting when there is a chance for you to be seen, IMO.

After two hours of playing DM/SR, I switched to DM/Regen. SR was acceptable only when Elude was running, which I really didn't like. Without Elude, I was eaten alive by scrappers. No thanks. I attempted to plug my defensive holes with the healing from Siphon Life, with no luck. SL's targetted nature makes it hard to use in many situations, including when you get nailed from behind. It was too little, too late.

Regen was great. My survivability jumped significantly when I switched. The DM/Regen power-build is now available on both sides of the law. Works for me

Looking forward to some more action today in RV. Villains FTW!

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The only reason why I haven't liked shadow maul in the past is due to the fact that, as a brute, it negates fury. With a stalker, it is fairly effective to run or hop by an enemy you just AS'ed or criticaled with MG and set off SM approximately 3 seconds from your opponent. SM after TOF is also a good use of the power. It is far better than smite and is a great way to interupt aid self in conjunction with the DOT from MG. BU + AS + SM + PLK8 + MG = low to no life left and serious disruption of aid self. Even if spammed to the point of setting it off, aid self will drain a lot of endurance.

I did the same. The primary needs three things to make it effective in comparison with every other set. 10-15 percent damage increase across the board, recharge reduction and knockbacks for the most part changed to knockdown and or disorient. This set in PVE is completely underwhelming. In pvp I will target these brutes over anything else as they will make great fury builders if in a team with other players...attack the elm for a bit, then switch to a teammate when fury is built up. That will be their only purpose lol.

I hope that the point of this sets weakness is in line with the philosophy to upgrade over time vs nerf. Upgrading a primary or secondary keeps players and draws new players to a set while nerfing a set decimates its population. In the long run, this leads to new players of the game.

As for the color of the animation, red is sinister. Light blue or yellow just doesn't do it and if you are interested in tricking out your toon with yellow electricity, get to 30 and get eletric aura of that color. It is, of course, the least problematic element of this incredibly weak and useless primary.

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But then you would get smart and activate your teleport which you would of course have because just using hover is teh dumb. Aside from this, if you have combat jumping on, you are immune to a single application of immobilization.

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You are talking about way too many power pools. I tried keeping fury up while running no shields and using only boxing and brawl. The 2 cheapest and quickest attacks available to all. You are saying take fitness, fighting, leaping and medicine in another thread. In what you just said that is 3 power pools, flight, leaping and teleport.

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Actually, I posted several builds a bit back. We are talking about options here.

TP, TPFOE + Hover (or Fly), Air Superiority (optional)
Aid Other, Aid Self
Hurdle, Health, Stamina
6 Primary Powers (5 if you select Air Superiority attack)
6 Secondary Powers

CJ, SJ, Acrobatics
Aid Other, Aid Self
Swift, Hurdle, Stamina
6 Primary Powers
6 Secondary Powers

Hover, Fly
CJ
Hurdle, Health, Stamina
Aid Other, Aid Self
6 Primary Powers
6 Secondary Powers

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I am going to agree with another, recent poster, that it doesn't make much sense conceptually speaking that an electrified villain with lightning reflexes is able to be anchored to the ground with a web grenade.

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I posted that a few times, including in the post that Front Loaded replied to initially. You can not be slowed but you can be stopped with an immob. Does not add up at all. Also most of the immob attacks have a -fly component to them. So if you went hover route for the semi-knockback protection you get hit with a immob and you are locked down.

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But then you would get smart and activate your teleport which you would of course have because just using hover is teh dumb. Aside from this, if you have combat jumping on, you are immune to a single application of immobilization.

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He didn't miss the point, you are just wrong in your assumption that you can't "travel" when you have been hit with immobilization. Lightning reflexes, swift, hurdle, sprint and combat jumping = very fast movement on par with 1 slotted flight. Also, people are already talking about taking fighting pool selections... leaping, fitness, medicine and fighting are all doable if you factor in substituting a 2-3 ppp's for the final powers to perfect your build. You end up with a highly resistant, fast moving brute that can heal itself.

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Ok fine, I meant you can not continue traveling using SJ, since everyone wants to get technical.

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However, with resistance to slow mez, you can continue traveling fairly quickly and will most likely reach your safe point before being killed. That, or you turn around and kill the person casting the mez on you. The upside to this is that you have unsuppressed travel speeds that will most likely be faster than the unsuppressed travel speed of everyone out there aside from /sr.


I am going to agree with another, recent poster, that it doesn't make much sense conceptually speaking that an electrified villain with lightning reflexes is able to be anchored to the ground with a web grenade.

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My biggest problem is the fact that people say take SJ for your immob and KB resistance, except you can only have either superjump or combat jumping on.

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Both powers have an activation time of 0 and recharge time of 0, and immob doesn't prevent you from activating powers, it's not really that horrible to click a button when needed.

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You completely missed the point. You can NOT travel if you get immobolized.

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He didn't miss the point, you are just wrong in your assumption that you can't "travel" when you have been hit with immobilization. Lightning reflexes, swift, hurdle, sprint and combat jumping = very fast movement on par with 1 slotted flight. Also, people are already talking about taking fighting pool selections... leaping, fitness, medicine and fighting are all doable if you factor in substituting a 2-3 ppp's for the final powers to perfect your build. You end up with a highly resistant, fast moving brute that can heal itself.

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Let's see...trading Psi Resistance, Recharge Boost,and Endurance Recovery for a vulnerability to KB and Immobilize and a lack of Healing?

Sign me up! It's not like you can get Psi Resistance from a Power Pool.

On the other hand, the idea of making Grounded more useful by making it more like Rooted also appeals to me. It may be a pun, but I have no problem with the idea that 'grounded' means 'cannot fly or leap' in this context.

Sure, it may be a pain in PvP, but a lack of Psi Resistance in PvP could be a pain as well. And if you are in a situation where you need to speed away, you could just turn off Grounded and go. Sure, you might be hit with KB as you flee, but that's got to be better than sticking around at that point...

A set with holes, or a set with self-penalties...this set could go either way, and either would be fine, but so far Stone is the one set with self-penalties instead of holes. I say let's make Electric Shields the second one.

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I am just glad with what we get and already have 2 defined plans for a kick [censored] pvp build. If you combine this secondary with the elec primary, you will be the bane of any melee opponent. The drain from the attacks coupled with the drain of a lightning reflex stimulated power sink will force most people into clicking their godmode power or running if they lack one. You wait a little while, click yours and then make sure you have follow on so you can decimate them when their godmode drops before yours. I do alright as it is with this kind of tactic with an em/ea brute, granted the frontload damage is greater. If it had the damage resistance during level 38 pvp, where everyone seems to hit your repeatedly, I would be unstoppable.

People always seem to believe that specking your toon for pvp gimps it in pve. The obvious opposite is in fact true. A perfect pvp build is a perfect pve build. You have accounted for every weakness you can protect against. You have slotted for accuracy and damage. You have developed several attack strategies and retreat strategies. This build has holes that you can fill with power pools and powers you can't get through the power pools. I am glad it will never change.

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Well, I'm going to offer up what is probably going to be a completely wacky idea: change power sink to have the same effects as Energy Absorption from the Ice Armor line. This would give it pretty much the same qualities it has now but with the added bonus of +Def. It wouldn't be much, but might help in large battles so that you get hit a bit less.

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I agree with this suggestion mainly do to the fact that power sink is already a clone of energy drain or vice versus. Tricking out this power for more utility that is specific to the secondary would be nice. I don't, however, want to see the recharge rate on power sink go from sup ~30 with lightning reflexes and SO's to 85-90 seconds.

*Edited by Cricket*

As of now, you can take 3 different pools for travel with this current build. Well, 2.5 It has already been explained. Read back a bit. The leaping pool and a combination of teleport and flying pool. For everyone interested in tough, you can even take SS + Boxing/Tough/Weave. You'll be fast enough, skip lightning reflexes and get aidother/aidself. Its all there man, just think hard.

Current prospective elec/elec build covering immob and knockback resistance...

6 prim
6 sec
3 fitness
2 teleportation
1 hover
2 medicine

or

5 prim
6 sec
3 flight (as, hover, fly)
3 fitness (with health)
3 fighting (boxing, tough, weave)

or

5 prim
6 sec
3 flight
1 leaping
3 fitness
2 medicine

or

6 prim
6 sec
3 leaping
3 fitness
2 medicine


All of these selections work in either pve or pvp or both respectively and if you are imaginative enough, you can slot them exactly the way they should while keeping all high end attacks full damage, all attack full acc and all shields 3 slotted for dam resistance + 1 endurance reduction. If this is cookie cutting, I'll take the oatmeal raisen.

There is simply no argument unless you are fighting vehemently for a power specifically designed for super speeders in an environment that has radically become more vertically friendly.

Once again, you are the weakest link and are thus deemed, E-untough LOL LOL LOL.

Oh, it is also possible to ditch stamina in later builds so that you can pick up conserve power and select 2 more powers from your power pool of choice.

post power sink build prospective can give you exactly what you want.

6 prim
7 sec (power sink and conserve power included)
2 SS
3 leaping
2 medicine

This is, of course, based off of a level 40 build. With 4 more extra powers you can forgo the last two PPP's for boxing and tough.

LOL. I don't care what you think is tough or raw or smart. The funny thing is that you can mass debate all you want and you still aren't going to get anything along the lines of that stupid toggle or anything remotely resembling it...you are just going to get blisters son. So, you have any comments on bugs or graphical issues related to this pretty much set in stone secondary that will eventually be fixed?

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the suggestion is that it only has the -jump and -fly, not the -speed

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Two things...this would affect speed as you can't jump away...even if you don't have SJ or Combat Jumping. This would also lock people more into picking up a non-leaping and non-flying travel power which...is one of the main reasons people are miffed about the set to begin with. They don't want to get locked into Leaping Pool.

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You're trying to tell us that a toggle locks people into certain powers, but it's fine that by not changing the power we would be locking people into SJ. Good logic.

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Its great logic. Anyways, I think others have reiterated the idiotic lack of utility this change represents and its nice to know that it also has idiotic proponents. Lets digress from idiocy and really take a look at how such a proposed toggle would work. You are super speeding or super jumping or flying...someone hits you with something with knockback and or immobilization...you hit the toggle...you start running away from the attacker but can't leap over the caltrop pit in the base or the million and one obstacles in any of the pvp zones or most of the mission instances...you detoggle...you get knocked back/down/up...you die. Yeah. Thats just great. Best thing is...this nor any other change suggested will ever happen. You are the weakest link, good bye.

Nah. You are wrong. From what I have seen it is a great secondary. As noted above, there are many options available to fill the holes. You obviously don't put much stock in aidself, maybe you have never used it or just want a kind of heal that is brainlessly easy to use but inferior in almost every other way to aid self. As stated before, I hope they don't change a single thing. That is, aside from some of the graphical issues related to the damage shield and maybe switch conserve power around with power sink.

To Devs...please don't change any of the weaknesses or strengths this secondary has to offer. You are doing a great job and I can't wait to play this on a life server.

They drain endurance from the enemy. The fact that you get a little back is a minor bonus which cuts the cost of the single attack as opposed to the general use of endurance. If your opponent has no endurance...that is a good thing.

Leaping Pool and Medicine Pool ... the latter being something I would choose anyways because, well, aid self owns. If you rely soley on a 75 percent regen increase that keeps you pinned to the ground and can still get immobilized *gasp* you will still need aid self *gasp* LOL like my *gasp*? That guy whose name I have already forgotten likes to use this *gasp* ROFL....kind of fruity if you ask me.

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Well said Tal_N. I pretty much agree with everything you said.

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I second that. I am getting annoyed at the shere volume of people who are demanding for a generalized nerf of the better aspects of this secondary in return for something "eveyone else has...to a certain degree".

Nah, you are totally jumping on the bandwagon and your idea is little more than a compilation of other's wishful thinking. The build doesn't need healing and your suggestion plugs each and every hole except for immobilization. In effect, it would make a super speeder uber powerful yet incapable of fighting back against vertical opponents. It is completely illogical and highly unlikely that this build would recieve anything in any way similar to what you have suggested. As for being able to *gasp* turn off the power...when you don't get this power because your request is rediculous, you can *gasp* select leaping pool or *gasp* select other combinations to make you *gasp* not suck.

The concept I posted about a pseudo-phase would be something unique to the secondary, reducing combat effectiveness in exchange for some defense and immob and knockback resistance for a short time period. Even then, I would not choose it. Right now, it is possible to create a seriously powerful pve/pvper with /elec if you select SJ pool or the right combo of TP and Flight Pool.

*gasp* *whine*

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Actually, you will notice the idea is to change Grounded to it would look something like this:

Grounded: toggle, .27 EPS, +75% health regeneration, knock back protection, -fly, -jump.

Note, there is still a weakness to immoblization in the set (until the final power is reached). So, it still has that weakness.

If a player wants to work around that particular weakness, there would be 2 paths to take. Combat Jumping (1 power slot) or Teleport pool (2 power slots and at least the use of one additional enhancement slot). And there is still the ability to use breakfrees. There is no inspiration to help against knock back.

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So...you think that people should take a power that would be completely useless with this version of grounded activated...aside from the immob protection and minor defense? Seems like you are reaching for what little you can get by jumping on a failing bandwagon.

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the suggestion is that it only has the -jump and -fly, not the -speed

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Two things...this would affect speed as you can't jump away...even if you don't have SJ or Combat Jumping. This would also lock people more into picking up a non-leaping and non-flying travel power which...is one of the main reasons people are miffed about the set to begin with. They don't want to get locked into Leaping Pool.

It is still a clone and has been described as a clone with SA as an example AND, is completely unoriginal. Who wants to be locked into super speed and ONLY teleport as a means of travel? I am sure there are some who love SJ...maybe a majority of people even if it does lead to a cookie cutter build. I personally wouldn't mind seeing this set completely unchanged.

Oh man, NO WAY. I would rather take aid self power pool then have yet another toggle that is a clone of yet another brute secondary. I also disagree with any power that will slow this brute down...lightning reflexes speeds your toon up for a reason...why would they then give this brute secondary a power that slows it down? The point is to get in quicker and have more attacks over time.

How about a pseudo-phase kind of click power... After clicking it you do 20 percent less damage, have 5 percent more defense and can't be knocked back or immobilized. The click would work similar to ninjitsu's status clicky and would work by making your /elec brute less massive. It could be timed so that it is more of an emergency power...ie...your toggles get dropped and are being thrown around like a ragdoll, click "Insert Electrical Sounding Name Here" This could replace conserve power and would be a far less generic and unimaginative power that would better define this secondary.

Why is everyone so absolutely willing to completely clone other powers for a brand new secondary?

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How wrong you are. I won't go into why because this isn't the official teleport board.

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People are always on the move in PvP. You can't keep up with Teleport only. Stalkers can get away with it, but that's about it.
If you're telling me you are highly effective at chasing runners and kiting with TP, I'm calling shenanigans.

As for the set, I know it needs holes. I just think the holes it was given are poorly thought out and not on par with what the other resist sets do. All sets have a secondary damage mitgation ability that warrants holes and lack of KB. DA and Fire... it makes sense and we all deal with it and accept it.
However, Endurance Drain isn't effective secondary damage mitgation unless it's 100%.... and that would be overpowered. Hence, the set needs something to fall back on because these other situational Pros (slow resist, end drain resist, - recovery, psi resist, TP resist) just don't cut it. They just aren't prevalent enough in the game to warrant such drawbacks and power pool reliance.

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Even so, every single hole is filled with the appropriate power pool selections. I don't understand the moaning that is being dredged up by this new secondary.

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Then you aren't paying attention. Read that first sentence again.

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LOL! Dude, you are just whining and reiterating the whining others have initiated. You just pointed out some serious strengths of this set and for some reason believe that this sec needs to be overpowered to the point of requiring a future nerf. Power Sink is a great weapon, probably one of the best toggle dropping attacks in the game. I have used this repeatedly in pvp...in pve it is up soon enough to really never need to worry about endurance. Slotting it 3 end mod and 3 recharge reduc + lightning reflexes means that it will be up even faster.

The damage resistance is great. Aid Self becomes increasingly less interruptable with the proper slotting. Teleportation pool + hover (or Air Superiority + Fly) and the Leaping pool are both viable selections for travel powers. Wonders can be done with TP and TPfoe with which you have an obvious lack of experience. Check out Elernet's example of what can be done via his vids. With the build I suggested earlier, you enter the combat instantaneously. This allows you to "shock" your opponent who may be fighting someone else. You can tpfoe a runner...which, if slotted correctly, can be up every 10 seconds with a fairly long range. LF + Swift + Hurdle = fairly fast, unsuppressed combat travel which you can switch to hover if you are dealing with knockback.

Ok, I am done. Recommence with the "whine moan no knockback or immobilization resistance and no healing" rants.

How wrong you are. I won't go into why because this isn't the official teleport board. I agree...I wish that Electric armor had either knockback protection or immobilization protection. I would have, however, selected leaping pool anyways. Even so, every single hole is filled with the appropriate power pool selections. I don't understand the moaning that is being dredged up by this new secondary.

Heck yeah man. Its also something different than anything I have previously played that inevitably takes leaping pool. The slotting works too if, instead of tpfoe, you get recall. You have enough room to fully slot the most damaging attacks + full slot shields + 3 slot hover so its at least fast enough for close quarter fighting...if you are on the ground, you will be able to get at your enemy fast with lightning reflexes + swift + sprint. If you are immobilized...you have the choice of getting the hell out of there or tping to next foe and, you can't be knocked back. Tp away, aid self, tp back...