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There's a choice attached. It seems likely that one's decision in that choice is stored and will matter again later. There's almost certainly no extant means for the mission auto complete function to offer you that choice outside the context of the mission.
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When DB for Stalkers was introduced, there were a lot of negative comments about how the combos were laid out.
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It seems like it might be an effort to cover up the loophole that bypassing the launcher allows. By not using the launcher, you are able to avoid accepting the agreement. I am not sure how well that would work as some sort of legal defense for violating those terms, but maybe this is a response to someone (RMT, for example?) wriggling out of something on that basis.
Other than it being vaguely ugly and slightly time consuming to present it there, it doesn't bother me. (I bypass the launcher all the time. It's faster for me to do so.) -
Quote:I think this important. It's one thing to essentially be excluded from content because of restrictions on how one plays the game that are not directly imposed by the game itself. This can range from not playing often on teams, or attending TFs or not dabbling in IOs or the market. Note that I don't assume that all these restrictions are self-imposed. Some folks play at times it's hard to get on teams, or can't set aside enough time to run a "typical" TF.Actually, as long as you're willing to try and meet the minimum requirements (for example, having an Alpha boost slotted for ATF & TM2TF) i'd be more than happy to have you join up on any Incarnate content. Many of the people i play with will also invite almost anyone who wants to join for almost any content. Some of them will invite anyone who asks, and the rest usually do the same after first inviting anyone from the channel first and then fill in any spots left. (Nowadays i find most of my groups of friends tend to fall along global channel rather than SG lines.)
It's another thing to imagine that people are excluding you from content because of perceived elitism. There are, without a doubt, people who will do that. I do not think it is wise to assume that the majority of people who might be in a position to do so will do so. I'm pretty willing to play at least some of the time with anyone who's actually a nice person to hang out with. If they happen to be willing to pick up some tricks of the trade and become a better player over time, so much the better.
Mostly, in my opinion, being a good player means you're willing to pay attention to what's going on and do something helpful to your team. If someone can do that and and be fun to hang around with, I'd be up for playing with them often. Being a good player does not mean that you're able to bum rush four AVs and let them dance on you without dying. That might mean you have a good build, but whether or not you're a good player is often something completely different. (If you're a good player, fun to play with, and have good builds, you're a real gem in my book.)
You don't need top-end builds to do most of this stuff, by the way. If you don't have one, what you need are buffs and maybe debuffs. That's what teams are for. Pum's a good example. I don't think he does much in the way of IOs on his characters. He gives most of his phat l3wt away in contests. He runs with people many of whom IO their characters to the gills, and he does fine. He knows the game well, and our teams usually have plenty of buffs to pass around. And when he doesn't get enough buffs for the way he plays, well, someone usually has Vengeance. >.> -
Quote:In historical terms, such as we have them, the conditions in the market are unusual. He successfully exploited them, and they almost certainly made what he was doing easier. I know you desperately want there to be nothing to muddy the notion that successful manipulation of salvage prices is wildly easy and therefore rampant, but that's just not the case.Or instead of trying to say "how unusual you accomplished such a successful profiteering experience, there must be something unusual going on in the market" ...
I did that. What he did is a "textbook" example of one of the very first writeups this forum ever got on how to manipulate the market and profit from it. You raise the price on something, and get out before the wave crests. He got out at 250k, and the price kept going. Had he stayed on longer, he could have taken a bath. He didn't. He did it right.Quote:You could always just acknowledge how effectively he manipulated the market. Comfortably demonstrated that marketeers can make substantial profits by manipulating supply and listing prices. And to boot did it in a higher volatility item.
Also, volatile items are where you want to do this. Trying to manipulate a non-volatile item is just begging to take a bath. Is it possible it will work? Yep. It's just a lot more likely it won't.
The fact that prices responded so favorably is almost certainly related to recent player activity. The fact that prices are so low (outside of manipulation) is almost certainly related to current player activity (they're lower than they were pre-monkies).
This very thread is evidence of why we say what we say, which is not what you just said. We say this is not simple enough to do to common salvage to make it worth people's time. I'll mention it again - he talked about how the 30-second log out timer became a barrier to what he was doing. That's a lot of manual effort. And this was an uncommon, not a common. Very, very few players will sustain that kind of effort for very long. Does it happen? Yep. And then they stop, and things revert to what they were before, more or less. I know when he did this. I saw the prices change. Now, a few days after he stopped, I'm back to buying these things for 555 inf. By my standards, he had no effect on the market.Quote:I still find it amusing why so many forumites here "pretend" like market manipulation isn't viable, and doesn't affect the market.
People manipulate stuff all the time, and some of it is easier to manipulate in the long term. Manipulation used to be very common on the Black Market when it was separate, because everything was volatile there due to low participation. There were some posters here who objected to the market merge solely on that basis - they knew a merged market would be harder to manipulate in general. -
I too agree that recipes are the way to go. It seems to me a tiny fraction of people bother shopping anywhere but at the top and bottom of the level range for items. There used to be some other critical levels, like level 33 for Siren's Call builds, but that seems to have dried up since I13.
Edit: The above recommendation was from the perspective of optimal profits. However, in terms of academic interest, you might try a common high-level common arcane. Personally, I have long been confused by the trend in common high-level arcane salvage. For a long time after Family and Freak farms were nerfed, common high-level arcane salvage was cheap on hero side, and high-level tech salvage was cheap villain side. I always attributed this to the farming of Demons on hero side and Nemesis on villain side. However, for some time before the market merge, and definitely after, it's tech salvage that is vastly oversupplied on the merged market, and supply of arcane salvage appears fragile. This surprises me, with the presumption of people playing level 50 content. It's not as simple as Praetoreans just dropping tech, either. (As far as I know, they don't. I got an arcane rare from a War Works bot on one of the new TFs.) -
Quote:Energy Transfer was fine for years, until they nerfed it to hell and back. Having separate green and yellow lines was fine for years, until they merged them. PvP was fine for years, until they rewrote it from the ground up. Defender damage was fine for years, until it got a boost when solo. We couldn't switch sides for years, until they added it. We didn't have inventions for years, until they added those.The challenge level of the content has been fine for years and until just recently when the devs got a bug up their **** and decided they need to ape WoW and try for some 'dynamic' battle like CO.
Just because something has been like it was for a long time does not mean the devs wanted it the way it was. Maybe they just didn't have time to look at it before. Maybe they always knew what they wanted to do, but didn't have the time, budget or people to make underlying changes they wanted. You can't look at it from the perspective of long consistency and decide that they suddenly got a wild hair to change something for change's sake. It's pretty clear to me that you're presenting it from that perspective because you dislike the change, and describing it in that way suggests it was done with little planning or foresight. But you don't know that with any certainty; it's just posturing on your part.
This game hasn't been as static as you seem to be suggesting. It's been evolving for a long, long time. One of the earliest jolts in difficulty it got (after I1 added the original 41-50 content) was with I6 and the release of CoV, where the main NPC opponents were noticeably more obnoxious than CoH players were used to, and in some cases as hard in the 20s and 30s as some of the most challenging NPCs CoH had in its 40-50 game. (To this day, Arachnos are practically the gold standard in challenging foes, referenced as annoying and dangerous by people who pull some of the most consistently ridiculous stunts imaginable.) The player base has been evolving over the years, and the devs have been evolving with them. Fortunately, it hasn't been an wide-open arms race, and I don't believe it is even with this new content. But I do expect the Incarnate content specifically to be more blatant in its escalation of power. Unlike you, I just don't expect that to translate directly into broad escalation throughout the entire game. -
Quote:The devs need a figurative kick in the face to take action. Perhaps the sub numbers over the next few months as well as the data coming from the two TFs and the upcoming raid will do the job before the game gets too many boot marks and bruises.Case in point.Quote:Good luck with that. I don't think that boot-encased foot you see flying is headed where you think it is.
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I'm not sure where you're seeing other people tell you how you should play in the sense that I think you mean to convey. There are more challenging aspects about the new content. If you're having problems with them, and other supposedly "elite" players are succeeding, would you rather they tell you how they did it in case it might help you, or to just nod and concur that you should give up now?
I won't say no one in this thread is taking an elitist attitude, but let's not apply that label anyone who can complete more difficult content, or who would like some more difficult content.
In any case, wanting to tell other people how to play the game isn't an intrinsic aspect of "munchkinism" in games. It's entirely possible to be a "munckin" without lording it over anyone whatsoever, except possibly your game master in a pen & paper setting. Nor is it intrinsic in less "munchkinlike" min/maxing. -
I think this particular item is a good example of some strong instability in the market. When I say "instability", I don't mean the market is going to collapse, or something negative. I mean that conditions come about that are highly sensitive to abrupt and strong change.
The supply of this salvage is pretty high. It took what sounds like a lot of effort for one person to manage draining it so that the price could be manipulated. After all, we have mention of the 30-second timer on logging out being a hassle during the exercise. In general, that supply currently seems to exceed demand, enough that listed supply tends to build up. When this started there were over 1000 for sale. There's nothing quite equivalent to Field Crafter that naturally causes people to consume large amounts of any given Uncommon salvage, so the shift of people running level 50 content seems a likely culprit for general depression of most all high-level commons and uncommons.
However, we just recently went through a period of immense price rise fueled by an AE exploit. I suspect that inf production rates are still high, due, if nothing else, to more people playing 50s more than before to wrap up their uncommon Alpha slots. Increased supply is depressing prices, but lots of currency is still available to throw at goods who's supply dries up, and there is still probably a bit of desensitization to high prices after the AE exploit. Yank the supply on something currently under-supplied and the prices quickly shoot back to levels comparable to the end of I18.
So this is basically a good time to conduct this sort of experiment. Kudos on finding a suitable target and not losing your shirt. It may be a bit easier to pull off than at many times in the past, but it still was a seeming success that's not guaranteed to work.
If you did the market any good, it would have been in terms of the total transaction rate of Temporal Tracers. The low price and high supply may have dissuaded people who wouldn't sell everything anyway from bothering to list their Tracers. At 300k a pop, anyone who saw that would probably be willing to get in on that action, and this more have been listed for sale per day, especially during days two and three. However, I don't know of a way we could show this actually happened. -
Quote:Yeah. As someone who likes to fiddle around in it some, I hate to say it, but I agree.The more fundamental problem with the AE, in my opinion, haunts every aspect of its design and usage. Its design imperative was to be as inclusive as possible for authors. That's fundamentally wrong. Its design imperative should be to generate as high quality content as possible. If a hundredth of a percent of the players end up writing content that everyone wants to play, the AE is a success. If ninety-nine point nine nine percent of the players write content that no one wants to play, the AE isn't.
And really, when you get down to it, the difference between the two philosophies is the difference between seeing AE authorship as a privilege, and as a responsibility. -
To an extent, I think everyone lost to a degree, and a few people won to a degree.
The people who really, truly wanted a tool for pure expression for its own sake got a very good tool. The people who wanted a tool for expression that other people would see got a tool with tremendous failings. The people who wanted a tool that would result in a large amount of novel content got a mixed bag - there is some very good content out there, but there aren't that many people producing it, and it's buried under tons of either non-attempts or honest attempts gone wrong. The people who wanted something with which to break the trends of reward/time got a fantastic tool, even when it's working basically as intended. The people who like to participate in forum flame wars got one of the best subjects ever. And the devs, well what they got depended on which of those groups was responding to them. -
Good luck with that. I don't think that boot-encased foot you see flying is headed where you think it is.
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Quote:It's supposed to be 1.5 seconds. It's not supposed to root you, and none of the comparable powers do so. I can activate Practiced Brawler on the move, and I do not stop moving, no matter what movement method I am using (flight, jumping, running along).Um..I think we're losing the point. It's not about the mez protection, it's about basically mezzing yourself when this power activates.
If Active Defense is rooting you it means you cannot move at all while activating it, and that if you are moving when you activate it, you stop moving. If that is what is happening to you, you should bug it.
If you are complaining about the window in which you cannot use other powers, that is intentional and not likely to change. However, if that window is really 3 seconds and not the listed 1.5, then you should also bug that. The devs (BaB in particular) did a pass to try and ensure that powers' mandatory animation times and their activation times lined up. If the power is taking longer than the 1.5s listed activation, that suggests that the animation time is too long. -
Quote:If we were arguing about things that hadn't already been set in motion, this would be a perfectly reasonable response, and I couldn't respond to it any better than to turn it back around. Except there's an asymmetry here - these TFs exist. The end game is being developed already, and we are being told it is more challenging. The ball is rolling, and it's not in the court you want it to be.Pay my sub fees from now on. Seriously. Why should I support the development of content I don't want with my own money? Maybe you're implying I leave the game then. Why should I be run out of a game because the devs freak out at the six year mark and decided to start catering to &$^*ing muchkins?
How about the people who crave all this "challenge" leave.
Leave this game for one that does challenge you and where you can find the people to marvel at your leet skills at pressing buttons and envy your lewt proper.
Because maybe this game wasn't built with you in mind.
I really do feel for you in this regard, but you do seem to have lost that fight, not with me, but with the devs.
Ah, the ever popular ad homenim stance that people who are good at the game must spend all their time at it and have no life.Quote:If this game isn't enough challenge then, it never will be and I'm not going to sit quietly while the devs waste time and resources to please power gamers who want the game to be a second job and who need to get over themselves.
I'm an engineer and developer for a living, Johnny. I work with numbers and optimize as a matter of my daily existence. It might shock you to consider that I enjoy doing those things, and ability to do them comes to me rather naturally. I'm sorry that I therefore find it fun, easy and casual to do something with this game you think takes the attention of a 2nd job, but that's just the shakes. -
Quote:I don't think what I said and what you said are the same thing."Sorry, but you just aren't good enough to enjoy the new content, or the content that's likely to follow it. You're not fast enough, skilled enough, and so on. You've muddled through thus far, but at this point you might as well give up. All this cool new stuff? It's not for you."
*sigh*
While player skill has some bearing on this, skills can be learned. While character gear has some bearing on this, we all start the game with the same potential to earn that gear.
What matters most is drive. If a given player doesn't want to learn new skills, they won't advance as far. If they don't have the interest or drive to take advantage of our common earning potential, they won't earn as much gear.
As Pum pointed out, end-game performance may not have the same level of assumptions about "optional" stuff that the game has until now. Personally, I doubt the devs will go whole-hog down the path of assuming everyone in their end game is a hyper-optimized, IO'd beast, but I am willing to bet they will assume it's more likely than they do for other content.
For a while, the devs spent a fair bit of a few issues working on PvP. I personally think the results were disastrous for PvP, but even if they had been really successful, that time spent would not have been fruitful for a large portion of the player base, because a large portion of the player base here wouldn't want to play in even a really well-executed PvP environment. But had it been successful, I think it would have been good for the overall health of the game, because whether you personally like PvP or not, it does seem to attract subs, and whether or not you think you want those particular people subbed to the game, their subs help keep the parts of the game you do like alive.
I really don't think the new "end game" is going to as severely segregate the community as PvP does/did, but I do think there are elements of simply having an "end game" that's at odds with what some people like about CoH. I don't think that can be helped - the devs can either create an end game and try to tap into the interest of people who want one, or they can cater to the folks who don't want one. It's a pretty binary choice, because the two are almost totally mutually exclusive. An end game that's not harder and thus more exclusionary isn't an "end game" in the sense of what the people asking for it have been asking for. -
Placate is incredibly valuable. It's so much more than a double-damage capability. It's an auto-hit, affect-any-rank soft control power. Any spawn that has critters in it you don't like, placate lets you turn one of them off, guaranteed.*
Also, if you choose the right attack to crit with the net effect on DPS of getting double damage (or especially AS damage) is positive. You come out ahead in damage/time, which is usually a key factor in progress/time, survival, or both.
* Barring some bugs with critters you have applied some debuffs or DoTs to, which you won't be able to placate. You can avoid this by placating a mob you are not (yet) attacking. -
No worries, I wasn't terribly specific either. Thus my explanations above.
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Quote:So you find the whole of the new TFs easier than the whole of the LRSF, despite the fact that you probably run the LRSF at +0, but the only way to run the new TFs is effectively at +4? Or are you saying only that you find the hardest part of the LRSF harder than the hardest part of the Apex or Tin Mage? Because when I say the new TFs are harder, I'm talking about the whole experience, not just the hardest parts.Well I've done both TFs and have had an easier time with them than the LRSF. In fact, I've gotten the MoApex, inadvertently too since I wasn't going for it and had even warned my team to not give up as the BM fight might be a bit long. The only badge I'm missing for MoTM is Midnight Dodger, but that's the only badge that requires excessive pre-planning. And I'm fine with that, at least one of the badges should be hard. Kitty's Got Claws is tough, but only because of yet another round of huge numbers thrown at us in the game. In my opinion, the drone badges don't make that battle all that much tougher, since the drones only seem to affect the Clockwork who are a cakewalk to begin with.
Given that I play with people who can regularly steamroll the last fight of the LRSF, do you think most of other stuff in that TF is particularly challenging? My point is that the baseline level of challenge of the "mundane" foes in the Apex and Tin Mage TFs are significantly higher than the baseline for something like the LRSF, assuming you don't crank up the LRSF's difficulty. Of course, we could have cranked up the LRSF, but that's not always popular because the team has different, competing reason for running it, and raw speed is often a factor. I like the fact that there's no choice in the new TFs. You get 54s no matter what. -
Quote:If nothing else, they guarantee you can't benefit from the one-shot code, which has gotten my killed by a KoA boss who critted with Head Splitter. (Edit: More than once.)Actually, I got killed by caltrops a couple of weeks ago testing a build at x8. Soft-capping has weaknesses, and that's one of them.
Even if they don't kill you outright, I'm absolutely certain there are a lot of players for whom KoA caltrops have been a contributing factor to getting killed. Unless you have high resistances to lethal, their trivial damage actually starts adding up fast in large numbers, and its easy to get trapped in the middle of a bunch of KoA because their AI tends to be melee-preferred. -
Quote:And you'll notice I didn't say "the Battle Maiden fight". I said the two new task forces, which contain quite a bit more than the Battle Maiden fight. They are also more challenging if you are trying to earn the badges they contain, since some of those badges require you to either eschew beneficial allies (such as the drones in the Kings Row invasion) or face highly buffed AVs (Kitty's Got Claws).Yet, the Battle Maiden fight isn't hard, it isn't frustrating, nor is it impossible. It's fun, it's challenging, and completely doable. In fact, I think it's easier than the last fight in the LRSF because it requires tactics more than piling debuffs.
Edit: To be even more clear, I was responding directly to implications that it is unfair how the NPCs grow in power so much faster than the players. To that I say balderdash - the players are already much more powerful than the NPCs when it comes down to a reasonably composed team (by which I mean a good mix of buffs, debuffs, damage and yes, healing). Johnny wants each individual player character to be on par with the best of the NPCs, ignoring the fact that, acting as a team, player characters can toast whole "teams" of over-level, AV-class NPCs. The devs aren't trying to outstrip us. They're trying to catch up. -
Quote:I'm going to break out a reference to something Arcanaville said long, long ago. Once you establish teams who can stand toe-to-toe with, say, eight level 53 AVs, or even four level 54 ones, there is truly nothing in the game that can challenge them outright.If you make player characters 5% more powerful but make the enemies 400% more powerful, you didn't really make player characters more powerful AT ALL.
I hate to break it to you, but stuff like the Apex and Tin Mage TFs may not be built with you in mind. For example, they probably not aimed at people who have trouble with the STF or LRSF, or even who have to do them carefully and thus more slowly. For some of us, foes who are 400% more powerful just actually might start to be a threat. Maybe.
The gate isn't there to represent you being more powerful. The gate is there to try to force you to buy Going Rogue. The gate and the TF foes' level are likely not directly functionally tied at all except in terms of lore presentation. The foes are much harder because some of us wanted that and the gate is there so people who want that have to buy the expansion to access it.
If you aren't someone who plays with people who can walk all over a STF or LRSF, then it's entirely possible that these two new TFs aren't designed with you in mind. -
Quote:I've never even had to use the door on the mission once the fight has started.That doesnt always work. Been there done that. The patch kills you as soon as you come out the door. And where are yall getting this 8 second warning thing from, its way less than that from what I can tell. Maybe 4 seconds at most before the patches start doing damage. Given that the door roots you for 3 seconds you wont always have time to get away.
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Quote:I wonder what they could do to prevent level 50 characters from walking all over the Positron TF. If only it were possible to make characters not as strong as they are at their "actual" level... I bet they could come up with something like that for Incarnates, too.Yeah I get that but in the end its going to come back and hurt the other players who are doing existing end game content who arent incarnates or even level 50 yet. They will end up doing something to negate what power we earned. It might not be a level shift but they will do something, but that something will negatively impact the non-incarnates.
Nah, screw it. It makes far more sense to tune Posi for level 50s and screw all the level 15 people who try it. -
Yeah. In this regard I find the alpha boosts fairly intelligently engineered. They do benefit high-end builds who want to use them to eke out every last drop of some already strong stat, but they are far more beneficial rounding out stats that are away from ED max.
The place they don't always have the best synergy is with set bonuses. I have many powers in many characters where underslotting is not a viable option, because doing so would deprive me of set bonuses that are important to me. However, there are some exceptions. Cardiac and Spiritual both provide something that I rarely have ED max slotting for, but would almost always love to be better slotted. This can be particularly beneficial for powers that are six slotted for a particular set bonus, since that pretty clearly denies me frankenslotting opportunities.
On such builds, that means that the benefits of the alpha slot tend to vary widely from power to power, but I have some leeway to choose the boost that gives any given character the best bang. For example, I have a DM/Regen for whom the uncommon Spiritual boost isn't giving ultra-strong benefit on things like Reconstruction or Moment of Glory, because those are already ED-slotted for recharge. But her single-target attacks are six slotted with Touch of Death, which grants a mere ~43.4% recharge. I'm not even going to hit the worst of ED using the Very Rare Spiritual Core with that base. So while my already strong recharge powers aren't going to change a ton, for my attacks, it's like I picked up 30%+ global recharge.
So now, even just the common or uncommon boost, Hasten and my existing global recharge bonus, I'm just a hair shy of being able to run DM's optimal DPS attach chain gaplress. (According to my calculations, I have a 0.2s gap in my chain, and I get confirmation in the form of a "not recharged" woo sound just a tad before that attack goes off.) Combined with a small improvement in my key survival powers, I'm pretty darn happy with the result.
