Wondering_Fury

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..And SFs.

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Fury

The game's engine, enabling an unparralled environment and experience to put it bluntly, plus it's non-subscription. And theres always challenges, Guild Wars 2 titles are making people work right now for them in Guild Wars, and there not easy to obtain.

Fury

As much as many people here have the same opinion as Moghedian, I don't really take much satisfaction in dinging 50. Now I've been around since 'City of Villain's and I know how hard it was to level back then, trust me. ( The ironic thing being MA farming brought a tonne of villains back by the way.) The only time I enjoyed reached the "milestone" was my first one, my tanker, and after that it was becoming a good hero, such as IO'ing; or costuming; or making your VG/SG base unbelievably cool;or making friends in TF's. As much as that's all irrelevant, reaching the 50 mark by whatever way isn't as prestigious, nor was it unless we refer to villains in the early days anyway, so I couldn't care less on that topic.

However.. On the topic of the author, MA farming I say again and again is too exposed to new players. They shouldn't be allowed to have such an 'easy' way into the game, they'll never learn the mechanics. That's my only qualm, in brief, that they must remove the MA buildings from the starting areas, and somehow limit their access.

That is if the developers see fit.

Fury

Were getting a bit heated here guys

I don't mind farming since it doesn't affect anyone but the one taking part because in my experience it does the following:
A.Brings income to a player seeking it for a valid reason.
B.Supplies the market with rare supplies, which otherwise would be lower than they are.
C.Actually gives 50's something to do, albeit not the purpose of end-game content.

However... power-levelling is a whole new debate since if your power-levelling yourself, whats the harm:
A.If you see a level 50 with a ridiculous power choice, don't invite them to your friggin' task force idiots ( personal experience )
B.MA is allowing brand new players to be power-levelled, which is NOT on. Okay, any new player joining an auto-sk ( purpose or content orientated ) is bound to be slightly power-levelled, thats the way the system works right now.
C.Power-levelling wasn't as bad back when you only invited 45-50's since it was only beneficial for them, yes farmers are genuinely nice, but now it's exploded for everyone to experience, it's falling into ill hands.

Fury

Apologies to people if they are sick of seeing my name posted!
Am I the only person that understands that power-levelling and farming are two almost completely different things?
And no smart answers saying " uhh.. farming=PL plox"

Fury

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1) "Failure" objectives, that is mission fails if you complete them and succeeds if you fail them.
2) "And" and "or" operations for triggers.

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I completely agree, I'd love a more flexibile fail ability, that allows the arc to diverge depending on how the hero/villain fares in the arc.

Fury

Actually in quick response ( I was away and the screen was left on this ) I'd quite like a thorough explanation of the exploitation rules from 'Mission Architect' albeit I'm sure they insinuate that they reserve any right to remove any product of a user that exploits anything, which is understandable since noone should be allowed to exploit but just how far is this imaginary line?
Since I fear it may be crossed on both sides unfortunately.

You make some good points Max'

Fury

Farming isn't breaking any of the game's rules, at all PERIOD. That is what I am sorry to say, that many against the farming idea fail to realise.
The developers may implicitly remove the ease of farming, but will never remove it outwith.

Without sounding like a man in pre-historic times, I think people who don't like farming are just fed up they can't afford things. And to them, I say welcome to the real world, nothings easy.

Fury

Not to be cynical, but that would be an incredible day if for an anniversary, we got booted for patching.
That is they were patching to upload the anniversary gifts hehe...

Fury

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You can easily make several million just by playing the market... Although I admit the recipe values have changed since i14, it'd just mean you'd have to hunt out a new selling item.

It is possible, and saying that it's a farmers game is a load of bull.

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Completely, utterly, unplacated agree.

EDIT:Quote.

Fury

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craft and sell common ios

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AS'ed.
:P

Fury

I defend that in the point that when costume inventions ( Tech Wings I think) were first out, they were 40 million, back then farming was NOT popular. Everyone did not have a fire/kin or a farmer or whatever, so 40 million was a lot in my opinion since inventions were just released so I think I'm safe in saying that people just barely had that amount. I remember people complained then, I'm not saying your point isn't valid:

I just disagree since my two points would be that you don't need to farm to get blah blah and it's not directly forced upon you,
and my other point is that the only reason one needs to farm is as you say to obtain the prices in BM/WW, but in saying there ridiculous prices is that then not contradicting yourself since these prices have settled and they are their true price in my experience so therefore if you want them you have to obtain large sums of influence, which in effect farming is a popular choice.

Technically the only format to obtain the prices I believe you are refferring to is to "play" the market, which being personally involved is a very difficult game, sell high worth things or simply play and play 'till you can afford it. I only defend it in that you make a point saying if prices were not as they are, then people can afford them, I do not believe that at all.

EDIT: This is correspondance to @BurningFists post.

Fury

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The main problem with having things sell for less is that there will be less competitions about.

I'ld say 70% of my influence for competitions was made from selling drops, now the prizes will be MUCH lower. I dont think we'll see many 100mill + competitions for a while now from anyone.

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But it directly feeds itself, if the recipes are cheaper why do you need 100 million, when you can win 10 million say if its worth the same, in credit. If recipes decrease in value, so does the value of infamy/influence therefore so long as there directly related, it isn't that bad.

Fury

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The thing i don't get is whats actually wrong with farming/power leveling and why are some forms of the 2 more acceptable than others.[..]
A lot of people don't seem to like farming and so believe it should be band/removed why? whats it doing to harm you? is it stopping you from playing how you like to play? are the farmers forcing you to play a specific way?

In short i seems to be a case of
"I do not like it, So you should not do it"

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It is. The problem is, I think, that many people aren't eloquent enough to put all their frustrations in one sentence. Here are my beefs with farming:

1.It is market breaking. As an unforeseen and unplanned for playstyle, farming means that rewards are dished out at an accelerated rate (be that exp, drops, inf or tickets). It's not part of the original game design, it's not something that they wanted you to be able to do. I would liken it to being able to take pieces off a chess board while your opponent has gone to the loo. Where's the fun in that?
2.It seems that the more that farming is tolerated, then the more the game WILL BE farm oriented. Like a virus, farming spreads across the server and those of us who aren't doing because we don't enjoy it feel alienated and don't really want to play anymore.
3.It appears to be removing people from the pool of potential groupmates. I know this is illusory, but that's what it seems like.
4.Eternal LFfarm spam. It's just a minor gripe but it is certainly annoying.

These are why farming is bad and I don't think you should be doing it.

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The only way that farming accelerates the defunct point of value, is the current ticket system. Farming provides the market with what it desperately needed. In an imaginary post-invention method of the game, in which farming was impossible, for example the "anti-farming drop code" which is in place for Guild Wars. ( For those unknown of this, it simply decrease the quality of your drops if you farm the same mob/zone.) then I can personally guarantee that recipes such as 'purples' would be probably 1.5x( and that is being very very very small-minded) the value they are right now in 'City of Villains.' Which at 100 million, is 150 million and that is very difficult to achive. I done some maths, the average 1-50 player from mobs alone obtains a pityful amount of influence/infamy, in which the marketing environment would be insane for one to obtain said rewards. Again and again, I make the only detrimental point that farming does is that it is over exposed to new players. Remove it from Galaxy/Atlas/Mercy/Port Oakes and place it in level-capped zones if you want to nerf "Mission Architect' farming.

You can not possibly sit and tell me that if you have an invention-orientated build, you did not farm. It's incredibly difficult in doing so, which hence provides the point of farming, to buy it.

EDIT: Grammer fixes.

Fury

An implement that can place the number, order and location of all mobs/ambushes/rescues/etc. It prevents the 'poor' location that some maps provide for some spawns.
To prevent plopping 10x mobs on one spot, you could create a "proximity" coding that prevents one mob being too close to another.

Fury

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Yes but there's a flash flood at the moment give it a month or two to settle down before calling on changes

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As much as you could be validly correct, I must disagree since the contraints providing this 'flashflood' will always be here, therefore I do believe if the market continues in it's sinking of value, that even if it plateaus off as you point out, this plateau may actually be inevitably awful to the economy and value of pretty much all valuables.

Fury

"It seems I can not satisfy my peoples.", a renowned emperor said that. It applies here, theres always something wrong, it's human error, that is defending the reason for bugs thus further the patches.
I would motion, an idea to consolidate all the recent patches and do it one long day - that is telling us in advance- instead of bringing the servers offline every day. I'm sure this isn't a far outstretch.

I understand the frustration on EU-players behalf that the US are getting shall we say better treatement, but that was the sacrfice of having US-staff members, they won't get up at 2AM in the morning to plug our holes in the game, I wouldn't. However, it does raise the agenda, of having a EU base at all. I'm dissatisfied at some things, such as getting a break then discovering I can't play 'City of Heroes' but I can do other things. Go breath some fresh air! Also, I meant to be general in my opinion, since it's an easy job to be a critic.

Fury

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I hope its a slight reward nerf, the markets are oversaturating.

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I remember you mentioned this before servers went offline, I debated that they were suitable, but now I think you are correct.

The amount of tickets one can get, and the quality in redeeming of tickets has sunk the value of influence/infamy. I personally can vouch, since I just redeemed 2x capped tickets for around 20+ 'Rare Invention Salvage', and made a big pocketing which as much as I'd love to do again, everything has sunk in value considerably.

EDIT: I noticed someone said you can't get anything in markets nowadays, I think your being a tad extreme, only purples are unobtainable. I actually think the market is quite good, and has been for some time.

Fury

I really don't think farming is as bad as some people make it out to be. I've stood by this point since some of the early online games, that is ones with economies. You'll always have farming in a game, if there is an economy, farming wasn't as exposed as it is now, back in around Issue 7/8, just after 'City of Villain' release I can't remember it being like it is now.

That said, I may just have been lucky, and also back then inventions were in the minds of the dev's, so technically all that existed was power-levelling, but that is a different topic, this is farming.

I do the occasional farm more than the regular subscriber, most who know me know that, and respect that. The only qualm I'd have, is that:
A. There is far too much exposure nowadays to it, for example as many have said the last thing any intelligent being would want is a broadcast for a fast-track to the "end" as soon as they load the game. In addition, I love skipping the queue in a rollercoaster using the tokens,etc that give you the ability to, but just because I can doesn't mean I do it on every ride ( guaranteed you can't but besides, I don't mind taking the toll to get to the end instead) the same is to be said, if it wasn't as exposed and explicitly shown as it is, it wouldn't be detrimental.

B. Everyone here subscribes, so they have a rather particular opinion that can't be ignored, it's simply a conflict of opinions that farming brings, I know the majority of long time players will have been on farms, but it's a part of any game with an economy.

(Counter-arguments welcome)

And lastly you wouldn't be fishing in the sea if there was nothing to fish for.

Fury

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Ok let's be totally serious here for a moment:

CoX cannot be the only MMO to have reached 5years old... so what kind of things have other games done for such a landmark?

And did they even publicise it?

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Guild Wars celebrate events from their lore, I admire that. I'd love something alongside that, even if it's just on the small-scale, such as family raiding a police station; praetorians getting through to 'Portal Corps'; clockwork attacks on power stations; arachnos fighting longbow, etc.
I can't even remember the last proper 'Rikti' event or any.. Mind you, the funny thing is the latter game provides weekend-bonuses, which I love and they are not even excessive, that'd be nice. I'm in suggestion mode, pardon me.

Fury

Aren't they still "fixing" the bases, etc. I'd say it'll be that, and a few negligible 'Mission Architect' bugs.

P.S Your bet is still on Dr.

Fury

We'll get a badge, obviously for still being here.

Fury