Angry_Citizen
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:I guess this is where we diverge then. Nothing in the AT shows that PBAoEs should be a part of stalker life. In fact, most of the PBAoEs were stripped from power sets. Furthermore, this new resurgence of PBAoEs in stalker power sets shows desperation on the part of the devs to grant legitimacy to stalkers by turning them into scrapper clones.
What sets are we suppose to use with that then? Because I want ice wielding Stalkers which will most likely come with a mass PBAoE ice attack...
That said, I made clear in another post (perhaps in the other thread) that stalkers still have room for AoEs in my theme. They just have to trade in single target damage for that. -
I have truly missed this place. <3
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Quote:Pretty simple, really. Precision application of single target damage with low aggro. Evidence: Hide and controlled crits allow precision; our AoEs were by and large removed in favor of AS; and we have Placate and a low threat modifier to minimize aggro.Originally Posted by Erratic
Could you spell out the concept? -
Quote:You may be content being the fellow who assassinates entire crowds, but I think this runs wholly antithetical to the concept of the stalker. The issues of the stalker AT run more than skin-deep, so skin-deep changes won't fix them. I'm going to continue harping on about this until everyone sees that modifiers and crits aren't going to do junk to an AT whose existence is superfluous.
On a large team, Stalker's ST specialty may not be appreciated but Stalker also has access to aoe too. A simple BU + Patron AoE still does pretty decent damage. -
Quote:Oh I do want to add more damage to stalkers, but what's the point? Single target is useless in this game. It's not about comparing our performance to scrappers, because scrappers have it rough too. It mystifies me why anyone would want stalkers to become clones of scrappers. Oh yay, scrappers are 'better tanks' - fat lot of good that does when scrappers rarely tank. Oh yay, stalkers are 'better ST DPSers' - who cares?
If you don't want to add more damage to Stalker, what else do you guys propose? -
Quote:Sure, but not by much, and not without further destroying the thematic differences between stalkers and scrappers.
What they can do is make stalkers more useful in the current game environment, and honestly the changes proposed by Arbiter Hawk and Synapse will do that. -
What's a yellow name, and why does Arcanaville have it?
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Still no fix? This is ridiculous. Utterly incomprehensible.
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Quote:I don't remember Synapse :/ I've been gone, uh, a looong time. Since August 2009. At least in the sense that I wasn't paying attention to the game and to the boards at all.Originally Posted by Aura_Familia
Castle left, BaBs was errr forced out.
Melissa B, Synapse, and Matt Miller are still here.
And more importantly Arcanaville is still here harassi . . . . errr helping them all with valuable advice. (joke, don't kill me with math)
How did BAB get forced out? I liked him. He commented in my epic goodbye thread. I felt special. -
... Is anyone left from the old days? Posi at least?
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Quote:Just as scrappers should not be limited to minion dispatch, stalkers should not be limited to boss dispatch. And that's where power sets should come in. The AT should define the playstyle though. Power sets should just add specialty or frankenplaying. For instance, stalkers having energy melee should be even more effective at single target, while electric melee should be very effective at single target and mildly effective at AoE. The AT should be the prime determinant though.
It's rather...what's the word I'm thinking of....I dunno, but it's, like...cramped or something...to think that Scrappers (and Brutes and whomever else) should only be good at fighting minions while Stalkers should only be good at fighting bosses.
My point throughout this entire thread is that AoE is all that matters in this game. Give single target a way to shine, then buff the hell out of stalkers in single target. Voila, fixed stalkers. -
Quote:We have a point of contention then. Blasters, scrappers, brutes etc are not useless 99.9% of the time like stalkers would be under this gimmick proposed by Redlynn and the other gimmick proposed by the devs. Blasters and scrappers may not benefit the majority of time from their inherents, but they do benefit the majority of time from being innately powerful and filling niche roles of their own. Blasters and scrappers fulfill long-term DPS roles and the ability to quickly dispatch minions. Stalkers do not fulfill any role that cannot be replaced entirely by another AT, and the role they are ostensibly designed for is one that is very rare. How rare is the necessity for AoE damage? Hrm?
Honestly, your cannot expect the world when given a handout. Defiance doesn't help Blasters 99.9% of the time. Critical Hits do not help a Scrapper 99.9% of the time. Fury doesn't help Brute 99.9% of the time. Why in the *HELL* would you expect *ANYTHING* added or enhanced on the Stalker AT to be some super boon 99.9% of the time!?
Also, I think you're using hyperbole or are being intentionally disingenuous if you're saying that Fury doesn't help brutes 99.9% of the time, because it most certainly does.
Indeed. I no longer seek to compare stalkers to scrappers. Scrappers themselves hold a tenuous role at best in team environments. However, they do have a role, and that role exists for the entire game. Scrappers do not suddenly become super-important in rare encounters like they would under Redlynn's proposal. They do, however, remain mildly important in essentially every encounter. That's what I want from stalkers. Other AT's should be able to fight bosses, no doubt about it. But a) bosses should be powerful enough to cause a team-wide threat, b) stalkers should be one of the many tools used to dispatch this team-wide threat, and c) stalkers should be very effective at doing just that.Quote:Roping in some perspective of the ATs, Scrappers are *NOT* the bees knees for everything. They're *GREAT* at hitting stuff alot and that's it. -
In what respect do I contradict myself?
For starters, if stalkers could 'hinder a strong targets ability to resist mezzes', then yes, that would be a good thing. The trouble is, strong targets make up an insignificant portion of the game. My proposal outlined in the original post discusses the steps necessary to make stalkers powerful in a significant portion of the game. Furthermore, being able to allow others to mez an AV is not that great of a gimmick. What about encounters where stalkers are unable to hit an AV? What about encounters where stalkers are unable to use AS? Why should stalkers be good only in the .1% of content that involves fighting AV's? Who the hell needs AV's to be mezzed these days anyway? It's not like they're challenging.
On the contrary, I'm not being intentionally pessimistic. I don't think scrappers have any real need in the game either, save as DPS machines. In order to maintain thematic differences in playstyle between scrappers and stalkers, these two entities must be kept from becoming clones of one another. Scrappers, under my proposal, would still have the ability to slaughter minions en masse while maintaining respectable single target damage and high defense capacities. Stalkers, on the other hand, become single target nightmares - and what's more, single target would actually have a use. That is why stalkers don't need gimmicks or tweaks. They need their unique, AT-specific goals to be emphasized in-game. I don't want the game to require a stalker for team roles any more than the game should require buffers/debuffers. But I think that having each group of critters contain one or two immensely powerful bosses that a stalker could dispose of in mere seconds would allow stalkers to fill a role - niche though it may still be, nevertheless it would be a unique role to play that could not be subsumed by scrappers or brutes. -
Please tell me how any of these ideas improves the lives of stalkers in 99.9% of encounters in any significant circumstance. It doesn't matter how quickly AS is activated if AS is just not necessary. It doesn't matter if AS can bring down PToD because it's just not necessary. Both your idea and theirs are gimmicks. They do nothing to help stalkers whatsoever.
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So in a world where AV's really aren't a common threat, stalkers are relegated to granting another AT the ability to shine? Interesting - but again pointless. AV encounters make up significantly less than 1% of all time spent in-game. Being able to grant functionality to another AT in these rare occasions does nothing to help stalkers.
Nothing I have seen in this thread leads me to believe a simple, tangible fix to stalkers will fix the underlying problems. Stalkers have problems because they're not needed, not because they're not good at what they do. Of course, they're not good at what they do, so I guess once there's a role for single target damage, then we can discuss triangle-annihilation and damage modifiers and scaling AS. -
Quote:So why should we care? Bosses aren't a threat. It'd improve solo play, but stalkers are already great solo players anyway.Originally Posted by Blue_Centurion
I would suggest a much simpler solution for Stalkers though. a damage scalar on Assasin's Strike. just the full one in hide. Have it scale to the Enemy. So a fully buffed AS could level an Boss, any Boss, easily. A buffed AS could leave any EB wobbling and clean some of them. And a buffed AS could actually make a gnarly tick on an AVs health bar. Oh, and add a danged stun to the AS for these hard targets. Cause it should be very surpising to almost get assassinated. Even with purple triangles up. There, then Stalkers would get some respect. And it could be done with a few hours coding, not changing the whole game.
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Good things I hope
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I wish it were the case that -maxhp or -res would do anything to help stalkers, but put simply, it just wouldn't matter. Why would anyone need the help of a stalker to provide, say, a 20% -res on a single target when an ice/rad corruptor can lay down similar levels to a whole field of critters, while providing equally large single target damage, while possessing some manner of large-scale AoE damage? This ignores buffs, by the way.
Other AT's do it as well as we do, and even if we did it better, why would it matter? What possible use is high single target damage in the vast majority of encounters? -
Quote:I take the anti-pony side, and will be charging up my evil anti-pony orbital laser generator. Ponies are soft, cuddly, and taste good with BBQ sauce, and therefore must be fried.Originally Posted by Rajani Isa
Welcome back, AC.
This reminds me, there is a movement to conquer the boards in the name of the Ponies.
Which side are you on? -
I was wrong.
... ... ... Let that sink in a minute. I was wrong that stalkers needed higher damage modifiers, hit points, and crits. I was wrong that the demoralize effect helped. I was wrong because these things are, fundamentally, pointless. A slightly improved damage modifier, or slightly increased hit points, or the rare critical hit, will not significantly improve the lives of stalkers.
You are wrong.
I've seen the rants. "Oh, higher hit point cap please!" "Better Build Up please!" "Put AoE's back in please!" "Where's mah Quick Recovery?!" The fact is, none of these will work to solve the stalker's underlying problems. There will always be the perception - an emphasis on the word - that the stalker AT is so utterly borked that it is beyond fixing.
The devs are wrong.
I've seen what the devs plan to do for ... uh, what issue are we on? Ah yes, issue 22. Let's see... AS out of hide becomes a decent-sized attack with little wind-up time, HP cap increased, and the chance to crit with AS out of hide is bumped up significantly by successive attacks. How bloody droll. The devs have taken upon this quixotic journey with ... tweaks.
No. I hereby posit that the stalker AT is 'broken' beyond all repair, because its fundamental concept is contrary to the game. It is an AT dependent on interruptible power activation in a game that thrives on motion-based combat. It is an AT designed for single-target assault in a game built for little more than slaughtering minions en masse. It is an AT whose main goal in life is the sudden evisceration of large-scale threats, when it is well-known that there exist no large-scale threats which may be suddenly eviscerated by stalkers in this game. To expand: bosses are not a threat. Elite bosses are not a threat. AV's can be a threat, but stalkers are no better at slaughtering them than other AT's, while retaining our intrinsic handicap against multiple foes.
In short, we are superfluous. Our existence is meaningless. Single target assault is not necessary in this game, and it's not like we do it very well anyway. Throughout this rant, I have implied that I do not agree that it is stalkers themselves who are broken. Rather, the game is broken. It is not built to accommodate our AT. Even if we were to turn AS into a power which instantly killed bosses at level fifty, it would be pointless. Fun, but pointless. Bosses are not capable of inflicting enough harm, and they die too quickly already even if they did inflict enough harm.
The only way to 'fix' stalkers is to 'fix' the game. Make single target annihilation more necessary in regular game content. Buff the everloving hell out of bosses. Make it so that bosses are your worst nightmare in-game. Make bosses so frighteningly difficult and sturdy that they cannot be solo'd by anyone - except stalkers - without inspiration use and decent builds. THEN turn stalkers into the AT that can rip the guts out of any single thing (sans AV's/elite bosses) in five seconds or less, but be comparatively helpless against a seething mass of minions. Then and only then will stalkers have a place in-game. Then and only then will they finally be 'fixed'.
But as we all know, that will never happen, and stalkers will have to be content with ... tweaks. Settle for them at your own peril. -
School's going.. well, rough. Last time I gave a school update here, I think I was at my first community college, eagerly expecting to transfer to Texas A&M? Well, I didn't, so I spent another year in a different community college, then transferred to UTexas. Austin is an amazing city. But this semester has been freakin' insane! Much much harder than I was expecting, and it was a huge shock.
Plan for world domination is going well. I have two bases full of rockets ready to be launched against my enemies. I'm just hoping I didn't accidentally put the Biological payload in them...
Rants forthcoming
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It's Christmas break between semesters, and I have about one month before classes start again. Figured it was time to check in and see how everyone was doing, and try to reorient myself to the game. It's been sooo loooong.
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I heard about the stalker changes, and I have a rant ready and waiting for that. Plus one for the general game as a whole. The "angry" part of Angry Citizen is back.
But before that, there's this thread! -
Anyone miss me? ... Or remember me? Been gone a while
