Windenergy21
-
Posts
1131 -
Joined
-
Quote:Not saying its the "best" primary with thermal. But since the thread is starting, that the OP IS a fire/therm, the way the sets play I'd advise against hotfeet for the combo. A great solo-aspect of fire/therm though, is that you can forge all 3 imps, which increases a big boone to the combo.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
I wouldn't call it a "stigma" I'd call it an "edge." It's your choice whether to play to it or not. I'm certainly not saying you have to do it, but take a look at Fire's control options:
Single Target Hold - same as all Controllers
AoE Hold - same as all Controllers but requires melee-ish range
AoE Stun - shared with Earth Control
I guess we could throw Bonfire in there somewhere. I don't even know what to think of that powers. It's ok but IMO more "interesting" than "competitive" with controls from other primaries.
As a ranged Controller Fire is basically outclassed on all sides. It's just not a huge strength of the set, which is why I said unless you're doing it for concept you are, IMO, better off with a different primary if you plan to skip Hot Feet. Earth/Thermal for example has almost exactly as much damage (about .5 less damage in Cages), a much sturdier pet that won't die and drag aggro back to you, and better and further reaching control options than the Hot Feet-less Fire Controller.
Fire Control is just kind of a "psycho" set. It's inherently risky but the payoff is you get around the main Controller strangle hold, and get decent damage--IF you take the powers that provide that. It's definitely not a set I'd ever pick for its ability to be cautious; for that I'd say Mind or Illusion completely blows it away. Can't argue with concept of course, but I did want to put that out there for people new to the sets.
You mention "sturdier" via the earth/thermal for the pet, but that's the point of thermal, it makes the imps pretty darn tough too. -
Quote:Mildly, more like EXTREMELY IMO XD. But combat jumps movement, for lower end cost in battles, and the fact of how easy it is to house a LOTG or Kimset, and give pretty good defense to all 3 types, makes it unskippable IMO. If you're over in that, then IOM still get it, and douse some slotting/enhancements elsewhere if you think you have too much defense.Originally Posted by Sailboat
Another vote against Combat Jumping: Ninja Run gives a higher jump for clearing obstacles, so really all you'd be getting is the defense, which is mostly irrelevant, since you do have decent debuff resistance. Also, CJ and Ninja Run are mutually exclusive; toggling one on turns off the other, which is a mild annoyance.
-
Quote:With other secondaries like rad, kin, storm etc, yes. Prbolem with a fire/thermal though, all the powers focus on keeping teammates alive, but outside of warmth, the set offers next to zero mitigation to help keep you alive yourself. Jumping in especially in your dispersion bubble scenario with this makes it EXTREMELY risky for a fire/thermal. You die, no more heals for the team, no more imps either. Which is another place fire's "heavy damage" stigma comes from.Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
Nice build, but I have a nitpick. I know some people disagree but I'm always a proponent of taking Hot Feet on any Fire Control build. Damage is the main thing Fire Control's got over the other Control sets, but only if you take the powers that actually deliver it. I know some folks prefer to play from range, but, IMO, unless you're doing it for concept reasons, you're better off with a different set than skipping one of the best AoE damage powers in a set that's mainly devoted to damage.
IMO trying to play Fire Control in the style of other, control heavy sets is mistake. You do have one pretty good ranged control. But all it takes is one Dispersion Bubble and enemies are immune to all of your controls. Flexibility is not a strength of Fire Control; you want the ability to win by brute force.
I would certainly not consider fire as "mainly" devoted to damage, it has some good control options, really the damage from hotfeet, and the damage that imps do over other pets is about the only difference to initiate that stigma, otherwise its a pretty standard control set.
It also gets the stigma from (very annoyingly IMO) all the fire/kins, which yes obviously synergizes with hotfeet very well. But in a set that outside of melt armor, which is on a long recharge, you're dealing with hotfeet all on its own with no extra damage help. Add the extra aggro you get from hotfeet and the end cost for again a secondary that helps you pretty much none, the extra risk is not near worth it IMO for what you would gain by picking up hotfeet on this build. -
Quote:I've been waiting for a themed secondary for fire control since issue 1 or 2. Thermal is a terrific set, definitely one of the best for controller secondaries, its just quite easy to master and understand which is why largely i'd assume you don't find that many threads on it.Originally Posted by Dreamt
I have started a Fire/Thermal. Seems a natural combo huh? I have found one post on an Illusion/Thermal and nothing else that uses the secondary. I can reroll if Thermal is useless. I don't want the ZOMG fotm overpowered build favored by min/max'ers and munchkin copycats. I do want some decent performance. Good on teams and able to solo a little bit.
Theme-wise I want Fire related powers. Character name is Homura no Umaretsuki (Born of Flame/Fire). With the (really cool and new to me) ability to edit power colors I guess several secondaries could fit the 'look' of my idea if I end up changing.
I am a returning player. The last time I was around WW had just come in and I am P.O.O.R. (under 12 million across all characters and only because veteran players are very nice with contests and giveaways) No expensive builds for me!
I could use some advice.
I can only imagine how powerful the set would be for keeping teams alive on a defender.
Here is the build I currently use. I enjoy the feel of the fire/therm. As i'm sure unicycle and frost will debate, that my build doesn't have hotfeet. I continue to prefer not to have it, so my build does not have it. It has pros, and cons, the cons are more to me than the pros for the playstyle of a fire/therm personally.
Now when making builds, you can't really expect you'll never even earn money along the way. Or that if you like a character that you can't simply work towards earning IOs when you hit 50 even. That in mind, I rarely use purples, and try to keep my builds generally cheap while effective. But good news is this combo does quite well with even SOs (definite boon to thermal there).
FYI this build was made before ninja run. I'd drop SJ for hasten, ditch the recharge in warmth/cauterize and 3 slot hasten.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Fire Thermal: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Fire Control
Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fitness
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Char -- Para-Acc/Rchg(A), Para-Acc/Hold/Rchg(5), G'Wdw-Acc/Rchg(9), G'Wdw-EndRdx/Hold(19), G'Wdw-Hold/Rng(34), G'Wdw-Acc/Hold/Rchg(34)
Level 1: Warmth -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal(25)
Level 2: Thermal Shield -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(3), ResDam-I(7)
Level 4: Cauterize -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(9), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23), Dct'dW-Heal(25)
Level 6: Fire Cages -- TotHntr-Acc/Rchg(A), TotHntr-EndRdx/Immob(17), TotHntr-Acc/EndRdx(19), TotHntr-Immob/Acc(40)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- Ksmt-ToHit+(A)
Level 10: Plasma Shield -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(11), ResDam-I(11)
Level 12: Flashfire -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(13), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(13), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(15), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(15), Rope-Acc/Stun/Rchg(17)
Level 14: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), RechRdx-I(27)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(45)
Level 22: Power of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Thaw -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 26: Bonfire -- RechRdx-I(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(43), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46)
Level 28: Forge -- AdjTgt-ToHit(A), AdjTgt-ToHit/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-ToHit/EndRdx/Rchg(29), AdjTgt-EndRdx/Rchg(37), AdjTgt-Rchg(37)
Level 30: Cinders -- Para-Acc/Rchg(A), Para-Acc/Hold/Rchg(31), G'Wdw-Acc/Rchg(31), G'Wdw-EndRdx/Hold(31), G'Wdw-Hold/Rng(34), G'Wdw-Acc/Hold/Rchg(37)
Level 32: Fire Imps -- C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(A), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), BriL'shp-Acc/Dmg(46)
Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- Acc-I(A), Acc-I(36), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(36), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 38: Melt Armor -- UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg(A), UndDef-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(39), UndDef-Rchg/EndRdx(39), UndDef-Rchg(39), ShldBrk-Acc/DefDeb(40), ShldBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 41: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43)
Level 44: Fire Shield -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(A), S'fstPrt-ResKB(45), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(45), Aegis-ResDam(50)
Level 47: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(48), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(48), Posi-Dmg/Rng(48), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(50), RechRdx-I(50)
Level 49: Rise of the Phoenix -- RechRdx-I(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
Level 0: Ninja Run
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1421;688;1376;HEX;| |78DA9D93CB4F135114C66FA72DA52FDA8ABCDF08162C14485CF85898889218A9122| |4BAF041461860B44C6B5B135D1851A389CA4A0DEA8297E0CAA5AF18976AFC2F50FF| |1053CF39DF2D8FE8CA49FBFD7ABF7EF7DC3377EEA46E1C0B29357744B9A28369339| |F1F1FCC38855C269DB672DE94396D4F8486EC9CD53A3663E566CDB44F29D5B29528| |85939C290DDAB6FD7FF4FAD45452CF1D1F35276DB360679CD809872CCB29244B3F4| |22319AA326C9959DB990EC8E04CD6B226E10FD905C7CAE78318A4EDE99942EC78D6| |9EC0B229335FB072376BA9B56EFADE77297D15BDEA1C0D9A94E7BCA07C8630A076D| |982B6AB405A606FCDF2A8936219C382B294A0FA94A0F6B4E00A2966140D573FE2FB| |11EF510C2EEED6F5DCA8E741BDF27FD57B40EA45DCED5D102BFA1CDDBE10C45F621| |63D009F2C5C54BEDF8AEF8AFBF7EB56FC682580560268E5210D827A4382B7E59FD0| |1C7047507117B887756F09DA69A5305632C2092954BF03651488E856225D62F9C88| |A692BD62156395995B0DC954F0CB6763F059E097A1604B394A94293AA0A0B3864D5| |68ABA64DACC764D5E97BAD436ADF7B41EF074186020D7ADB1B96A872BB6A5C06560| |41DABC09AE0919C0B6C4D13CE4A33CE4A33CE4AF38EB3D281B3324FDAA21769D930| |38DEFA03F809FC12F46E5024AEB22E5E0AF1F67A69738F46623BE2C0358A77EA9E3| |ABF185C61EF57E01BF05D1037DCB28857B046DAA567752D4AA1EE25601958C176AD| |02AF04AF6956423F9D44B5DC784F2D8093348093B44EB9A4AE9E7C2B53FBDE01D8F| |E3E6CFFC0470077F226AC54BF7E80FDB01A3D9BAF197DE852C37F39239ECD774BB9| |C469DACA14FD51492A84FFEBFA142A95F38F0648C7584658CEB25C60B9C87289C56| |4B9CC32C152FCBC393B7280FB3AC87288E5304B15F5A7E639E9E3972EC8126209B3| |54B04458A22C952CF52C8B2CC53F7DB4038B| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Also fury, you have way too much healing IOs slotted in true grit, missing out on a good chunk of exotic resistances. And just the 8% regen off of boxing, i'd put that slot at the very least to to health, move the numina unique there, and then slot some resistance IOs into true grit.
-
I'm assuming for starters that the OP meant to put a recharge in their active defense so it perma'd, not an end reduction. With him being ok with its base slot, which in the final build will be perma, but not leveling up of course.
I personally have so much fun with all the attacks of axe knocking enemies down in a chain, So for my build I had to have all the attacks lol. But on a plus side, still caps defense, has decently more regeneration, though less recovery, stemming mainly from PP slotting, Has FA if needed, but shy tough.
Never adjusted for ninja run yet, so can pick up either taunt, or OWTS. Taunt, i've never found necessary on a shielder, most tanks actually, but on a shielder with a strong autohit aura, and with shield charge with such a large aoe radius and knockdown for starting the fight, i've never had a problem, not even as a scrapper even really.
So pros and cons, I personally find having all the attacks more fun however, and don't have problems surving either. As to the end recovery difference, i've never found much over 2 end/sec with enough end reduction on attacks much needed. If you pick up OWTS in place of SJ, for battles like AV fights its more than enough usually. Also a little handier on teams with maneuvers + GC.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.707
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Shield Axe: Level 50 Magic Tanker
Primary Power Set: Shield Defense
Secondary Power Set: Battle Axe
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Energy Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Deflection -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(3), LkGmblr-Def(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+(13), ResDam-I(13), ResDam-I(15)
Level 1: Beheader -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Mako-Dam%(46)
Level 2: True Grit -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(9), Numna-Heal(9), ResDam-I(11), ResDam-I(15), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(19)
Level 4: Battle Agility -- S'dpty-Def/EndRdx(A), S'dpty-Def/Rchg(5), S'dpty-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(5), S'dpty-Def(50)
Level 6: Chop -- Mako-Acc/Dmg(A), Mako-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Mako-Dmg/Rchg(17), Mako-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(25), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), Mako-Dam%(46)
Level 8: Against All Odds -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 10: Gash -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(11), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(19), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(46)
Level 12: Active Defense -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 16: Super Jump -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 20: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(21), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21), Heal-I(45), RgnTis-Regen+(50)
Level 22: Stamina -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(23), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(43)
Level 24: Phalanx Fighting -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 26: Shield Charge -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(27), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(27), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37)
Level 28: Whirling Axe -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(29), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), C'ngBlow-Dmg/EndRdx(37), C'ngBlow-Dmg/Rchg(50)
Level 30: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 32: Swoop -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(33), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(34), T'Death-Dam%(48)
Level 35: Cleave -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(36), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(36), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(37), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Pendulum -- Sciroc-Acc/Dmg(A), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Sciroc-Dmg/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Rchg(39), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(43), GSFC-Build%(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(45), Numna-Heal(45)
Level 47: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Grant Cover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 0: Ninja Run
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1416;699;1398;HEX;| |78DA9D935B4F134114C7677BB1B4DDD29652CBB5142814041678F39268548AA234A| |9823C28D02C30B42B7521DD8AD4273F001ABF80890FDEBF81F133A9F1F6A4B29ECB| |94A431F1C14DFBFFCD9C9973E69F33BB8583395D88471784A65FAE9A8E535A36ED1| |D59F317CCB2B5195AAA58B2BA95B978200342887E5E2BCDC96D693BD2E0D5E634A5| |560BB22AA571C9ACD7ABB20499F105BB226BD2AE1BCD815EDCDDAD1A8BD2DCB3EC3| |24FE6ADBA2D1D27DA5CD99235A762EDC569BE60EF5B8EB56155AD7A2391DFB3368D| |BC2D6BE546A9603A75596B7481B771F8CF454034F80BD72F623098159E04A393A02| |7199302D1CEF81814EA81AC6D0A9D28136215429745C8DD254CED10E6E12C4D9DA5| |DDA0B26D4B8C5B8450CB211D2908F68B3C647939CBEB3D02E484CF6560B19C98F51| |03E8127BFF2E4FF87A7C1164F57A17A804CB9223048A1CF5028A80A056FD349A13B| |848E55427A8D30B84E982A11AE40A130DB14E1092A74125E80880A45B88D290845B| |9B6888EB14908C5D5AE388702104A70C89758A1C44EEE5027B76D324BFB66CF5387| |DA607B52752879E8A1A31F339E104E3D252C80C5943A29C57EAE43A89BFDF8BA7FD| |2AE9E5F8CDF84F41121EB12BE415F7A556B7AF7C943DF01A341483F2464EFB13F9B| |F025882E294BEBE7D6E4185F616540D51BE05667B8D5196E75A6A5D5D3DCEAEF903| |5A4B286D8C5F003069B1966335936337D9FF003B24654D608678D72D628678D7256| |AE25EBB9578831F5CE8EBDA0268CBF64BC62BCE616BF61BC25BC83B64E709667425| |D19BFE9937C8F71B832435D85C157710D7266546886437DBEE3CF0C7EF088C5BF22| |459FFA7E21A25164DC77FC49BBC118ED14BCF9BF9EF77AB35CF066087419A508A2A| |DE06815650DA7EB383271B481B28953F783DE341C3D8DBECEA09C45398792047FE2| |107706C22061141D2582D28E124589A124507A509EA1B87F007F5C006A| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
Quote:Not to mention in a small part, the jaegers don't sleep (not that it hugely used at that level but just pointing out, don't knock down (IIRC please someone correct me, they knock back, but don't remember them ever falling down ie like from freezing rain or the KD in creepers) And they sometimes cast an immunization on eachother when they go to heal eachother.Originally Posted by ketch
All Nemesis have some confusion protection so you have to stack at least two SoC (or score an overpower) in order to confuse them. As Seeds are Plant's primary control you can imagine why it can become difficult. However, you can play it smart and still making things much easier. For example, open with Creepers from around a corner or forgo your immobilize so that the knockdown of Freezing Rain mitigates some of the damage. You can even leverage Tornado in some situations to keep the enemy off their feet.
Some combinations like plant/emp, which offers little mitigation from its secondary, take a sharp blow from losing the utility of Seeds.
They also have a lot of aoe damage, that deals knockback as well, which even with creepers can knock them back and kill them forcing a few seconds before they re-cast another vine per enemy.
Nemesis = extremely annoying XD -
Quote:Hami'o bugs ftw! lolOriginally Posted by ketch
I disagree with Wind's take on Creepers. In my experience, the damage from Creepers is extremely noticeable. I eschew set bonuses to use Hami-O's and proc's for the most damage out of CC. Because of the nature of Creepers, you need to slot in a manner that carries damage enhancement and proc's to the sub-pets. Hami-O's will affect all portions so they're a good resource. If you slot an AoE set it will only affect the AoE portion of the power.
Check Weatherby Goode's guide for the skinny on how it all works. -
Still though IMO the damage they do is little enough its really not worth wasting the 6 slots in the power to begin with. Any enhancing of damage/slow/immobilize in the power is pretty minor with the way it works. The slow is probably more useful for the actual location based power to trap enemies on that. Immobilize has next to zero purpose especially with you spamming roots, and I've honestly never really noticed much of the damage they did. Enhance it some perhaps, but I don't feel the slots are warranted to go for it. We're talking 3 slots that can go to your strangler, vines, empulse, etc.
-
If you're going to 6 slot it, I'd go 5 positron's blast and a recharge. With Perma hasten/AM its past perma that way. Since you already have maxed out 6.25% recharge bonuses then i'd say it lets you ditch one of the others, or just go 4 positrons blast, and then 2 tempered readiness to cap off your damage and get a 1.5% recovery bonus.
You also should REALLY not need the numina unique on this build. The miracle in the base slot is great, since you dont need the regen from the power. But without the numina, you're recovering, with RI and EF on too no less, 3.1 end/sec. When you flip on the accolades which you forgot to do, you're recovering 3.58 end/sec. Which is more than enough for this build. the only real end intensive thing you have is spamming your roots. Everything else with some end reduction really doesn't use that much. My fire/rad spams fire cages, and that actually has more end/cast than roots does, plus he runs hotfeet and CC and maneuvers/assault. -
Couple things unicycle. For one, check your Seeds, especially on a perma AM/Hasten plant/rad build, that malaise you have (which btw is more expensive for no bonuses, might as well use a perplex at the same level which doesn't require a rare salvage cost IIRC ), but that acc/conf/rech is doing so very little (since it does not have an acc penalty, you can get acc bonuses, the extra acc is mostly all you notice, if that, i just 5 slot it and be done with it, since controllers already get the chance to mag 4 on it, i don't feel it much for the confusion proc but to each his own)
Creepers: Especially by slotting roots with a damage set, which means you'll likely be spamming it as an attack, you really don't need any immobilize sets in carrion creepers, and I don't feel the 4% recovery is much necessary, let alone worth the cost for the two gravitational anchors. Even if they are only 20 mil (which not sure but would assume they're higher), I'd much rather use those slots elsewhere.
Spirit tree: ditch the end/rech, and put the heal/end/rech there. You barely lose any en/drech stats, and get the heal up which is more important since its beyond perma as is anyways.
Rest of the build looks pretty good, except for recall friend, I'd ditch that in a heartbeat. Even as the "tp and mutation" tool, its not really necessary for almost anything with carrion creepers and seeds. I just use the vet tp, with a perma AM/Hasten build, its up about every 10 minutes, which if you have people dying that much with perma creepers and 15 second recharging seeds, something is wrong. (or at least on the validity that with perma creepers, you can easily go into the mob where the fallen ally is and rez him there. -
Quote:2nd part, HAHA so true.Originally Posted by Local_Man
Sure, I like Mutation. It is just in today's game, there are so many Rez options that it is not all that badly needed. You have the temp self-rez from Bank missions, then you have Awakens that can be created with 3 of any other Inpiration, plus the Rez Ally power you can get as a Day Job temp power. Plus, in the later game, several sets have self-rez powers, such as the new Rise of the Phoenix added to the Fire APP for Controllers.
However, I feel that if you take Fallout, you really should take Mutation too. It is just rude to blow up a teammate's body without Rezzing him afterwards.
1st part, I was just making a joke cause you said it twice :P -
Quote:You don't like mutation do you? :P
while Mutation, Fallout and Mutation are optional from Rad
FYI LOVE this lolQuote:My concept for my Plant/Rad is making me consider him for shifting a little to the bad side . . . His parents were "Flower Children" in the 60's who never gave up their ways. He grew up cultivating a special "herb" in the swamp behind their home, not knowing that Crey were dumping Radioactive waste in the swamp. After years of smoking his "herb," he developed the ability to control the plants. That's how he got the name, "Pot Holder." He became a 60's themed environmental extremist. You can see how he could move to Vigilante in GR.
As to the OP, plant/rad is an amazing combo. And on the rad side, one of the best things about plant/rad, is it gets spore burst, and seeds of confusion, which gets you two cheap purples sets to get high recharge on the build to perma your AM, Hasten, and especially what is great about this build is perma Carrion Creepers.
Here's the build I'd use, very close to the one I do use, but this was before Ninja Run, which I suggest picking up. Could always swap out mutation or EE, (or hibernate on the other suggested build I had for it as ice mastery)
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.601
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Plant Rad Entangle: Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Plant Control
Secondary Power Set: Radiation Emission
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Speed
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Strangler -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(37), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(37), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Hold-I(43)
Level 1: Radiant Aura -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(3), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(7), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Dct'dW-Heal(19)
Level 2: Radiation Infection -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(3), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(11), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(43)
Level 4: Accelerate Metabolism -- Efficacy-EndMod(A), Efficacy-EndMod/Rchg(5), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(5), Efficacy-Acc/Rchg(15), Efficacy-EndMod/Acc(17), Efficacy-EndMod/EndRdx(39)
Level 6: Roots -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(7), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(39), Posi-Dmg/Rng(46), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 8: Seeds of Confusion -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(13), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(13)
Level 10: Enervating Field -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(11)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 14: Entangle -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(39), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 16: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 18: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 20: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(34)
Level 22: Lingering Radiation -- P'ngTtl-Acc/Slow(A), P'ngTtl-Acc/EndRdx(23), P'ngTtl-Rng/Slow(23), P'ngTtl-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(29), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(25), RechRdx-I(25)
Level 26: Carrion Creepers -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(27), TmpRdns-EndRdx/Rchg/Slow(27)
Level 28: Spore Burst -- FtnHyp-Sleep(A), FtnHyp-Sleep/Rchg(29), FtnHyp-Acc/Sleep/Rchg(48), FtnHyp-Acc/Rchg(48), FtnHyp-Sleep/EndRdx(50)
Level 30: Vines -- NrncSD-Acc/Rchg(A), NrncSD-EndRdx/Hold(31), NrncSD-Acc/EndRdx(31), NrncSD-Acc/Hold/Rchg(31), Para-EndRdx/Hold(50), Para-Acc/Hold/Rchg(50)
Level 32: Fly Trap -- C'Arms-Acc/Dmg(A), C'Arms-Dmg/EndRdx(33), C'Arms-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), C'Arms-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(33), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(34)
Level 35: Spirit Tree -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Dct'dW-Heal(36), Dct'dW-Rchg(37)
Level 38: Mutation -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 41: Fissure -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(42), Posi-Dmg/Rng(42), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), RechRdx-I(46)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 47: Rock Armor -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(A)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment
------------
Set Bonus Totals:- 6.5% DamageBuff(Smashing)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Lethal)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Fire)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Cold)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Energy)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Negative)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Toxic)
- 6.5% DamageBuff(Psionic)
- 4.5% Max End
- 4% Enhancement(Confused)
- 8% Enhancement(Heal)
- 56% Enhancement(Accuracy)
- 2.5% Enhancement(FlySpeed)
- 2.5% Enhancement(RunSpeed)
- 2.5% Enhancement(JumpSpeed)
- 2.5% Enhancement(JumpHeight)
- 91.3% Enhancement(RechargeTime)
- 5% FlySpeed
- 110.6 HP (10.9%) HitPoints
- 5% JumpHeight
- 5% JumpSpeed
- MezResist(Immobilize) 9.9%
- MezResist(Sleep) 2.75%
- MezResist(Terrorized) 4.4%
- 23% (0.38 End/sec) Recovery
- 10% (0.42 HP/sec) Regeneration
- 8.19% Resistance(Fire)
- 8.19% Resistance(Cold)
- 5% RunSpeed
Code:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1429;709;1418;HEX;| |78DAA594594F135114C7EFB494425BE882EC206D590B52E0CDE5C144C404A558C12| |02A508632E024754A3AA391373F00EEC6357E026314D9F5BBB8BC1AF5DDA77AEEFF| |DC8AC44727EDFF77EF99FF3DF7CC9DD3A66E9D0E0871FBA4D042C339DDB633C379C| |B29E47339A3E049E9CB663692CEE996139DD017A32396A35BCB39C32B8488EEFB4A| |4B92709666F1BF0CA76E2C2D252983A93B66DECA8C5C376D9B06E151EB9A51302C2| |7591A04D279CA3366E82BA6B5CC9333A66319B6EDC36472C53016C3188E5A374DDB| |5C3073A6B31A195931B3C949276F1999946E3B4661B5816A4CD0F7BD26D455F488A| |7846E117906743C67BC00BA5F02BD9D842131BEBFAA4C9CD364C8350694A780D038| |10390F48D5B0A4E8D6B65DB0EF00BE5DA0F70390268F9B7D1EF71A426577187781E| |A7B40E83ED0F500D8A0151E558C6703F5956F025D5B40FF3630B0036C91DDABECDE| |1964A89865CC01810C631EB840F64AAE49AB8C21838F514759FC7C47F86BF1A0EBA| |4552A77159F66359F66179F66F781D32CA70C419521D883A45E0A8555287C5693AE| |0A0AD5A8D3AB7988A20E3D623C06624F8049F2D4AACD6BDFA09EBAB78C7740CB3A1| |0EBC34E714A5BCF695DF51C6A38805DBAD9C8F95C8D1C6A52788D449BA4CD6AC3E6| |29D4D072091898665C0686AE003B646F55ADD63A83C9E159C61C631E189A665C05F| |648DBD4266D9F5C3214FDCCF8C2F80AC4BEA1B46DB2C7953DCE9DD9CE2DD9CE2DD9| |CE2DD9910626483BD92E3AF9E1BEBB85E85165F6703B25B89D12DC4E096EA75E6EA| |77E5EF58BFE25FAD4BE7D3A4247161859C622DB0DE0076D9254AF39C9BDF3934283| |AA9441AEB5A5ECCFCF8C3E7489B17F22698A682AA221D2BAEFF9AF6B8F1E8953574| |EF8482F4A4993685372342365564EE7E44897A3052959392D7E0C94AA081E95051D| |93725CCA09296BD2E4F593F8A504A45449A996129412925223A54E4A939457528AB| |F01F2751161| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
-
I think there are a lot of semantics and personal preferences involved. The same HP/sec may be the same, there are rare situations where it makes a difference which is which. I prefer to have it go faster/less than slower/more.
-
Quote:To there very first part, all in good fun!!!Originally Posted by Frosticus
No one has suggested otherwise. Hence why you don't put FW on a hp capped blaster any more than you should be putting your iceshields on a softcapped sr in the majority of scenarios.
I get that granting a regen buff to FW would give it a minimum expected performance, which is probably what bothers people about the power given that it can vary quite a bit. In the same sense that when I hit heal other I know exactly what it will do that would be comforting.
The thing is though, even if it did have that minimum expected performance granted to it the power would still vary wildly in actual beneficial terms. In fact it would expand the gap rather than shrink it.
Is it that FW can potentially have zero benefit that bothers people? because I'd point out that every power in the game falls under that restraint as well. The circumstances that FW runs low on benefit may be more of a common occurrence than some other powers (I'd very much gladly debate this point though), but at the same time there are times where it is a tremendously powerful ability.
You are irked by a weird thing if I do say so myself. You'd rather have more unknowns than less. That is very strange.
Allow me to demonstrate: with knowing absolutely nothing else -
Q. If I regen 50hp/sec how much incoming damage can I withstand before being overwhelmed?
A. 51 dps
Q. If my target regens 100hp/sec how much outgoing damage do we need to defeat it?
A. 101 dps
Now as a percentage: again with knowing absolutely nothing else -
Q. If I regen 5% how much incoming damage can I withstand before being overwhelmed?
A. 5.1% of my unknown total hp
Q. Which means?
Q. If my target regens 5% how much outgoing damage do we need to defeat it?
A. 5.1% of its unknown total hp
Q. Which means?
If you know the hp/sec the only question left is how susceptible you are to burst damage and how much time defeat will take, but not whether defeat will occur or not. If you know the % regenerated you know pretty much nothing of what that actually means when in combat.
Once you know the total hp in question then both pieces of data are fine and tell you everything you need to know. But with that being an unknown, I'd personally rather know how much damage I can expect to repair and how much damage I need to do to start defeating my target.
As for tick rate of regen, that is a very minor issue. It would only matter if you sustain an increase in damage taken during the difference in the interval of healing rate. That's not impossible by any means, but it is probably far more common to experience overkill as a result of low total hp regardless of how fast your health tics than it is to experience a flux in the damage that would drop someone healing in shots of 100hp every 4 seconds compared to someone healing in shots of 50hp every 2 seconds.
To the latter, the problem is, you are not getting a steady stream of hp/sec, it only tics for 5% at a time, every so many seconds. So that gap time in between, lets say 50hp/sec, could be 6 seconds for the tank, 4 for the controller, when you get that hit that kills you in 5 seconds, the controller survives, where the tank doesn't etc.
They are two very different mechanics for being almost the same thing. It almost means more when looking at downtime, certain amounts of hp before you feel ready to take that next mob on etc.
except, all good for long thought out fights before you even engage in battle, in the midst of the fight, there is no pause button to whip out a calculator and figure what the next hit is going to do to you. In battle, when you know exactly when that next tic is going to occur, and the more frequent it is, its far more reliable than just assuming a rate of hp/sec, especially if you can't see your constant hp, assuming you use herostats, as i know you are not keeping your cursor hovered over your hp bar during the whole battle.Quote:Once you know the total hp in question then both pieces of data are fine and tell you everything you need to know. But with that being an unknown, I'd personally rather know how much damage I can expect to repair and how much damage I need to do to start defeating my target.
But knowing when that next tic is coming, and gauging with your eyes how much that 5% is and knowing when its going to tic next, is why humans are better than machines at things like flying aircraft. Our brains do millions of calculations, without knowing the exact number values, and gauging what will occur, this is what experience is. It also makes a large factor when looking at other mitigation such as knockdowns and how long you need to keep them knocked down, the more consistent the knockdowns you have etc. -
Quote:But it does matter, when the people you are buffing are already closer to the cap, diminishing the amount of applied HP, having a regen value in %/sec will still be increasing that rate by the same amount.Originally Posted by Frosticus
This is irrelevant from an end user viewpoint if they result the same number regardless of whether it is derived through more regeneration or more hp.
If you regen 25hp/sec it doesn't matter if you are doing it by having 25,000 hp with 0.1% regen, or 250 hp with 10% regen.
Your ability to repair damage (ignoring overkill on the latter) is the same.
It's not like adding resistance because resistance doesn't change your net regeneration, it just provides a cushion for damage. Adding hp will affect your net regeneration and provide a cushion for damage.
The two "can" be synonomous, but it really irks me when people post a build, and say it regenerates in "hp/sec" when, because that can depend on too many factors, such as AT, accolades, powers, and bonuses, its impossible to determine how actually "fast" that means it's regenerating, without knowing the exact amount of total HP the character has. And it also can not be referenced between that and another character in terms of actual speed of the regeneration.
An HP capped tanker, could have a regeneration rate of 50hp/sec, where a controller with no accolades, bonuses or powers, could have the same regeneration rate of 50hp/sec, but there is a HUGE difference in how fast that actually is. Random number but can mean the tank regenerating a tic every 6 seconds, where the controller gets a tic every 4 seconds for example. -
Quote:So if Huricane is being reduced to down so low from a 58.8% debuff down to 3.67%, then I'm assuming as is the -defense the way def/to hit works.Originally Posted by Frosticus
Dev whim I guess, because it makes no sense. The inconsistent application of pseudo-pets and straight up power errors is one of the reasons I harp on Castle a lot. Yes there are a butt-load of powers in the game, yes there are a butt-load of errors too. The game is absolutely playable and enjoyable, but if that is signaling complacency then I'm unhappy.
Tomax is fine. You just need to look at the right powers and used a recent version (which I linked). It isn't just pseudo-pets though that you have to be careful about. For instance, you'd be similarly incorrect if you made assumptions based on the expected damage a sonic corr would do with shriek and scream if you scaled the defender version. For w/e reason the corr version does more damage than you'd expect in that case. Or the def does less if you went in the opposite direction.
Powers can and sometimes do differ beyond the AT expectations. Sometimes it is special exemptions and sometimes it is just random.
If -res were unresistable you'd end up doing a lot more than 30% more damage when you encounter resistance.
I'll use a very clear example, but it applies to any resistance.
Unstoppable puts you at 90% res.
So if your attack did 100 damage vs 0% res, it would now do 10 damage vs unstoppable.
If we add 30%-res it would go to 130 vs 0% res and 13 vs unstoppable.
Both cases are a 30% end damage increase.
If it were unresistable is would strip unstoppable down to 60% res meaning it would:
be 130 damage vs 0% res and 40 damage vs unstoppable. Which means it would have increased our damage by 400% from what we would have been doing if we didn't apply -res.
This is one of the main reasons why defenders were so potent under the i12 pvp rules set. They could do this.
AV resistance protects against a lot of things. -resistance and -damage are not two of them. Similar to how their mez protection is arbitrarily set to have holes to sleep and immobs.
This link explains it
http://cityofheroes.wikia.com/wiki/Archvillain
Making sense of the chart is done by looking at the level of the AV and applying their resistance to debuffs. For instance:
A lvl 30 AV will resists things covered by AV class by 75%.
A lvl 50 AV by 85%
On top of that you need to factor in the purple patch for fighting enemies of different level.
For instance:
A lvl 50 fighting the AV's on the STF/RSF will be 4 levels below them.
They have 87% resistance to debuffs and your powers are 48% as effective.
So as an example a defender using hurricane would have it reduced down from 58.8% debuff to 28.2% debuff and then resisted by 87% down to 3.67% tohit debuff.
At that point you wonder why even bother using it. It is one of the major reasons why buffs are so much better than debuffs in what comprises our "difficult" content. Not only is the debuffer risking getting agro, they are doing next to nothing. While a buffer can stay in safety and contribute a lot more. Some games counter this with "healer agro". Ours just ignores the issue and lets ai be incredibly stupid.
With Avs not resisting -dam/-res debuffs, would they still not be affected by the purple patch?
In which case, the 30% from sleet is being reduced. Or is it always 30%, and the devs just figure your lower damage due to the purple patch is enough and the 30% works based off your lower damage. In other words, exponential decay of damage in relation to -resistance, or linear. -
Quote:in HP/sec, not in %/sec though. The same way adding resistance essentially can "add" more regen, depending on the way you're looking at it. Not in direct hp/sec, but in battles, its like a smaller "negative" regeneration, yeah i know lame way to look at it. However, bringing up the point again, of many characters, first starting with the accolades, and usually a minimum of 10% hp bonuses from IOs for any buid I've ever made. Which is why, as you suggest too I'd prefer a regen component to it. Keeping it from overpowering, plus a regen around 150% base for it, would give some fun game mechanics, kinda like "using it when theyre low on health, then doing what you can for those few tics of hp it regenerates them by to get high enough to complete the battle! I like regen :POriginally Posted by Frosticus
I'm not sure if it was in this thread or not, but it fits here.
FW as a Heal
With regard to Frostworks I know there is a player request for the power to provide a direct heal in addition to the hp buff that it offers. This issue was raised very early in the life of cold domination.
It sort of already does. The "heal" it provides is more powerful depending on how much you raise their peak hp by. Allow me to clarify.
I use FW on a controller with base hp of 1017 and raise it up to 1606.
If they were at 40% hp due to injury when I cast the power (406.8hp) their new hp without any direct healing will be 642.4. In a sense I have "healed" them for 235 pts.
The earlier you hit them with FW the more it will "heal" for because it will be whatever percentage of their hp left equaling the same percentage of their new high hp.
Another example would be hitting an SR scrapper with all hp accolades (because they gut FW so much apparently) when they are at 70% hp (1124 of 1606 hp). They will still be at 70% hp, but they will now have 1686hp, meaning you just "healed" them for 562 pts.
FW as a Regen power
The other complaint I've often seen levied against FW is that it should provide some +regen. I personally think this would be more appropriate for the power given the desire to not overpower the set. However, it already does provide +regen in a similar way to it healing.
Extending the example of our SR scrapper and assuming he has health (1 slotted for heal) he would be regening 10.5 hp/sec. When we apply FW he is now regening 15.76 hp/sec.
Interestingly enough it is like FW is already applying a 75% "regen" buff to that scrapper.
But Cold is a thinking man's set and FW is no exception. Lets look at what happens if we apply it to a WP brute in the think of things (say 6 enemies feeding rttc) and he has all hp accolades+hpt slotted for health, fast healing, and health.
Before FW: 76.9 hp/sec
After FW: 109 hp/sec
Which has effectively hit them with a 343% "regen" buff
Putting it all together
Now imagine that WP brute was at 60% hp when we hit him with FW. Not only did we just effectively add 343% regen to him we also just "healed" him for 657 pts of health.
Obviously if you apply it to a hp capped blaster you aren't doing much for them (nothing really), but in the same sense your cold shields aren't much use to a softcapped SR. Not everything is amazing in every situation, nor should it be. -
Quote:You're right, I clearly am missing the point why a rads debuffs scale down for the controller version, but not the colds debuffs. I can give what Max said about it being a pseudo pet, but even you discounted that that doesn't mean anything.
3. You need to do more research if you think controller sleet should been scaled down to 22.5%. I'd suggest seeking the source of cold, then comparing it to storm, for a greater understanding.
Your response taught me something about relying on tomax. Comp can't handle (at least not comfortably) "checking in the game" for the values, and coming back to here to simultaneously comment, Will use Mids from now on then.
This makes no sense, first you say 30% -resistance is always -30%, but then say "if -resist were unresistable in pve they'd make changes to it" which is exactly what you just said it works as now. If 30% -resitance is always -30%, thats what unresistable means.Quote:AV's don't have any special resistance to resistance debuffs. Yes resistance itself resists the debuff, but it is not unique to AV's. In fact very few AV's even have very much damage resistance at all, and it is rarely in very large doses. Of course there are a few that have god modes, but the same can be said about normal npcs.
30% -res will ALWAYS increase your final damage by 30%. If the target has 99% res and you hit it with sleet you will still do 30% more damage than before.
Similar to how 30% +dam will always add 30% damage.
If -res were unresistable in pve they would probably make some drastic changes to it, such as lowering the values a lot because they give npcs resistance for a reason.
My understanding, last i checked (now bear with me, I read patch notes, and don't remember seeing this change but it's been a WHILE since I reviewed it, and therefore if not expecting it to have changed had no reason to re-evaluate the strength of debuffs vs said enemies) Avs resisted debuffs more-so than other NPCs. So a 30% -resistance, would only equate to a (again, not sure on the exact scalar, if it even exists anymore) 10% -resistance on an AV for example. Similar to how I thought Debuffs scale down vs higher level enemies. IE, a power dealing 5% -to hit to an even level, would deal 4% to a +2 enemy no?
Now, if what you are saying, holds true that this is in fact not true, and AVs feel the full force of all -resistance/-defense/-to hit/-damage debuffs, that makes me a very happy man. But I don't recall ever seeing it pronounced working this way. Then again, its been too long to even attempt to locate where I reviewed this mechanic. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Frosticus
We are discussing x/cold not cold/x
http://tomax.cohtitan.com/data/
or
log in game and read values off of your /cold and /rad trollers.
It wasn't just wrong information about cold though, I would just correct that and move on. There was flawed information about game mechanics as well and wrong information about what certain powers do.
Anyway, for whatever reason, the devs decided not to scale cold debuffs properly (using all other sets as precedent) when they gave it to defenders. What can I say, it's not the first time they have put 50% effort in to something and called it done. Thankfully we aren't discussing cold defenders as they are an entire different discussion from /cold
Yes I already know we are discussing /cold, already mentioned the tomax site i was using didn't have the values, cold/ vs rad/ = /cold vs /rad they scale between values so it doesn't really matter in the discussion. If its not scaled properly between defenders and controllers that's not my fault. From the page you linked, it actually looks like defenders have their proper value, and controllers were not scaled down properly. (ie 30% -res/-def for sleet where it should be 22.5% etc)
As to the flawed information about game mechanics and wrong information about what certain powers do, you're going to have to clarify on that. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Frosticus
Oh boy, there is so much incorrect information in that post my eye is twitching.
Here's a fun little exercise that might help. Tell me specifically what happens if I hit (an even con) Valkyrie AV with Benumb when she rezzes and before she hits MOG. When you can answer that question in detail this conversation can proceed. In the mean time I'm going to PM Castle about the sleet/freezing rain bug again, maybe that will stop the twitching.
Oops, not wrong information, just forgot to mention I was using defender values as it was easier than calculating the troller values since red tomax doesn't have it updated for it. -
Quote:I wasn't aware that 125% damage to to the team for controllers/150% for defenders and 150-200% constant -regen, unlimited endurance, and 50% recharge boost to your teammates made it so difficult to kill hard targets...
Sleet alone puts the set on the cusp of being "super offensive" it is just that good of a power. Bare in mind though it is in comparison to the other buff/debuff options available. Benumb is mentioned because it shows that cold has little issue moving from minion munching to taking down the big stuff, unlike kinetics which is unparalleled in minion munching, but quickly falls behind vs hard single targets.
Vs, single targets, you're missing a lot on the rad vs your cold. Even granting you have benumb perma, and Heat loss is up 1/3 of the time, and since it is a bug assuming you have the debuff of sleet perma:
Benumb vs Lingering radiation, assuming perma benumb, they cancel out equaling -regen
Sleet vs. Rad toggles, same -resistance/-defense
So we're looking at the benefits of Perma AM, versus the extra -defense in benumb and the 1/3 of the time -30% resistance in Heat Loss.
The extra -defense in benumb, I find after infridgidate/radiation infection to, although its a high number, not mean much outside of mary macomber and maybe black swan after the -defense you're already doing. most people have enough ACC slotted they're capping their chance to hit as is pre-benumb. The -30% resistance is severely diminished with AV's resistances, whereas the 30% damage buff on AM is going for full effect.
Now the -resistance in nature is stronger cause it is going off of your slotted damage, but the 30% (someone help me out on AV scaling) is far below that 30% -resistance. Add in the perma +recharge boost of AM too, I'd still EASILY say the Rad is ahead of the cold in terms of taking down AVs. Not by much, but it offers more where other powers vs AVs start to cancel out. Not to mention Rad gets all of the good powers very early on, not at tier 8 and 9 like Cold does (still need to bump sleet up earlier GRR!) This is also not even including the debuffs of EMPulse or Fallout as they're too situational IMO, but they are still there to top off the Rad over the cold if implemented. -
Quote:Ah there we go, yeah that I wasn't. But I usually also judge by what can be used every mob, so I dont hold that in very high regard. sleet on its own though I wouldn't go to say that the set is "super" offensive. (don't count AV only via benumbs -regen enough to warrant it a title in this, its great for them, just saying as a set its relatively rare)
In case you weren't aware, Heatloss also provides 30% -res
Defensively yeah its wonderful!
Would be nice if they'd hurry and give controllers traps already. -
It wasn't letting me open up your build for some reason so I'll go with what I see so far.
First thing that jumped out at me was Earth's embrace.
If you're going to go for the 5% recharge bonus in it, do so with doctored wounds so you can max either heal or rech and get 80% or so to the other stat.
Hard to see too much of other sets without being able to open it. Blinding feint is way too late. As a tanker, with mud pots being a large part of your aggro, you want blinding feint asap to keep your accuracy up to hit enemies to taunt them more efficiently.
Granite Armor, the defense is nice, but you definitely want to make sure you max out the resistance more. Thats taking your resistance from 68% to 78%, for just dropping a 2% recovery bonus or a 10% regeneration bonus. That is a huge difference. -
Quote:I wasn't aware one power equal to freezing rain and if you count the single target defense debuff in infridgidate was "extremely" offensive...
Cold is insanely powerful both offensively and defensively.