Another_Fan
-
Posts
3571 -
Joined
-
Quote:Originally Posted by black_barrier
50 mill a day isn't enough if you're just market pvping.
50 mill a day means 20 days to a billion. a billion will buy you half a set of apocs; and lets not even talk about pvp ios.
just saying.Quote:Originally Posted by black_barrier
same performance goals that any pvper on a squishy should be wanting to meet: 1500+ hp, 41+ kb prot, and at least 50% recharge.
generally speaking, 1 billion buys a third to half of that, if you aren't gimping your build.
but it's ok, cause DR fixed pvp.
What were people saying about PvP build requirements ? I forget.*
*That is sarcasm
Edit: Just a note on that, I finally got the ski slope badges , Combat jumping, swift, hurdle and superspeed ftw. Somebody has to tell me what the skill and achievement were in picking the required powers in a build or where the great joy should have been for the people being chain teleported. ( I am guessing that worked for them, I wasn't in the chain) -
Quote:Sorry I read that as on a budget, So as Emily Litella used to say "Never Mind".Originally Posted by The Questioner
Uhhhh, unlimited budgit, i already said that. And, i want a solo survivable build like i said. So, yeah
Your best bet then are makos bite sets and thunderstrike and blessing of the zyphers, build for ranged defense. A steadfast unique will also be very useful. You should be able softcap and still have sets open. You will then likely need the recovery uniques to power everything you have to run to get that cap, and after that whatever is left as a defense power you will be slotting with lotg global recharges, and any set you can just load with the purples. To get good recharge.
This will give you a survivable character that can also farm when teamed with a kin.
It seems a little bit of an odd desire though. Seeing as you have an unlimited budget, I have to guess you really enjoy farming with a kin. If that is correct, something like a rad/fire or rad/ment would be a much better choice. You can combine Fulcrum Shift, Cosmic Burst and Psychic Shockwave for mass annihilation -
How much of a budget ?
If you are running with a fire/kin you can build for just moderate recharge between 30 and 50 % and throw everything else into defense. Your friend can boost your recharge rate, and fulcrum shift will take care of your damage.
You can slot kinetic crash sets in your KB powers to get 7.5% recharge bonuses and KB protection on the cheap. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Computer
I believe it should be phrased more like "But this is a MMO, that is how MMOs work."
Personally I accept the fact that if I want to have every advantage I can get my hands on, I need to work my way up.Quote:With 50mil/day income I can easily IO a toon out in no time
Just out of curiosity, how much less willing would you be if it it took you considerably longer ? Just how willing do you think other people would or should be ? -
Quote:Too much from just this one thread, have to settle for the highlights.Originally Posted by UberGuy
Quote:
Originally Posted by Another_Fan
What I have been getting back is people saying if newbies don't get the pain we had to go through, and we don't get to wail on them with the that extra edge above skill, it devalues our accomplishments.
Jesus. Where can I buy whatever you're smoking? It's gotta be hot.
AndQuote:Originally Posted by macskull
It is fair, though - just because you don't want to put the effort into getting the "good stuff" (which everyone has equal opportunity to do) doesn't mean it's unfair.
AndQuote:Originally Posted by Ironblade
I think he understands that. I certainly do. Conversely, plenty of people are willing, even EAGER, to 'work their a** off' in order to get 'the good stuff'. Not everyone plays the game to experience fun at all times. Some people play the game to ACHIEVE. They have goals and will grind/work/whatever to get there. And it doesn't matter if it's not fun, or we don't see the point.
And a runner up and honorable mention/Quote:Originally Posted by Werner
Well, you don't seem to be talking about EQUAL ACCESS to equipment. We already have that. You seem to be talking about EQUAL EQUIPMENT. Far different animal. I'm willing to work my *** off for hundreds of hours doing things that some people find unpleasant so that I can have the best equipment. You're apparently not. You don't want to put in the effort, but you still think you deserve the same equipment as me, that it's unfair to you to not have it. Why should you be given the same rewards for no effort that I earned through a lot of effort? To me, that's VERY much "Everyone's a winner! Gold stars for everyone!"
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
When you accept that there's no barrier to achieving any of this except time, maybe you'll be able to discuss this topic rationally. Right now, you're posting distinctly irrationally. Persistent MMOs are about time sinks. If you don't like that, you're truly playing the wrong type of game. You're also preaching to the converted of another faith. If we weren't OK with climbing time sink ladders, we wouldn't all still be here. Given that you clearly aren't OK with that, I honestly don't understand why you are here, raging against the machine this way.
Hey you want people to wade through a pile of crap, to pvp, because having gear and using it against someone who doesn't over and over until they wade through that pile of crap is your idea of achievement, well and good. Me I look and say everytime you put odious barriers in the way of a goal, less and less people will try to get to the goal. Your only response seems be bbbbbut this is an MMO they should want to. -
Quote:Originally Posted by Not_Epsilon
I enjoy your circular nature, continue to bite you tail and make yourself look even more foolish; are you el chido's forum acct?
Just for reference Circular as in Circular logic, refers to having the conclusion as the premise. Hope you will be able to use the word properly in the future. -
Quote:in response to a question about SR.Originally Posted by ConFlict
This part may actual be said. Lets go through the rest for fun.
While someone may get told their build needs work they won't ever get 'your power selections are crap' when having an even leveled conversation. This includes talking to pvp meanies like myself and barrier who are usually very helpful unless someone starts the smack talking first.
And one from youQuote:Originally Posted by black_barrier
had a fire/sr in i13.
i run itfs with it now.
it's trash in pvp and it took me 35 minutes of play after the elusivity nerf to realize it.
10 seconds of lookingQuote:Originally Posted by ConFlict
While earth ea sounds good, in practice its actually pretty craptacular. Mind ea is good but imo fire ea is better. And for as good as fire ea is its still pretty rare.
Well we have had the word need redefined recently, why don't you lay out what you mean by functional ?Quote:Reroll was a common answer to many questions in old pvp as, but only in high end. Pretty much any zone can be functional for zone play. Also this line as well of several of your post show how completely out of touch with anything remotely pvp related in this game. Just so you know fire control and empathy are two of the top sets. And if you would like I will go through and pull out all the other wrong stuff you have thrown out some time, just ask.
I actually have no real idea how long it takes me to get a toon to 50, I actually play them for the enjoyment of playing them. While there are many things, I don't like about the game there are many I do. The fastest I can recall getting a character to 50 was during the AE speed craze and he was logged in with a friend to pad out the farms.Quote:If it takes you hundreds of hours to get a toon pvpable you are either lazy or a tard. Even with the ssk nerf it takes very little time to get a toon to 50. And as I have posted in this thread already you can make a very viable pvp build for 100 mil or less which is a mere drop in the bucket for a 50.
I do know people that have their characters in mid levels for months or years and I would hardly call them lazy tards.
If you can please link to your 100 million pvp build, I am not up for punching at air.
No reply needed.Quote:I doubt this is what people would tell them is fun about pvp with the way the rest of the convo goes. Most nights you can find good action in rv and kb in the arena plus a fair amount of 1v1s if you like. The killing badgers and farming fiteclubbers is merely abonus that goes with the real pvp.
Writes itself.Quote:Not very true either. Most of the nicer pvpers and get ready for this that includes black barrier all talk freely and friendly with each other. You have to be a real special person to get them(us) to talk down to you. As for the trash talk and stuff to get you off your game, if you do anything comepetively you know this part of ALL competition. As I said in a thread in the pvp section if they need coddling and hand holding pvp probably is never going to be for them anyways.
I play a few times a month. If there is an event run by perc, or if there is something going on with the more sportsmanlike players. Or if I happen to be badging in a pvp zone and there is still someone there. Its enough to have the joy of people encourage all sorts of things.Quote:I think you either rarely pvp and have just twisted and distorted stories you have heard so much that you know believe this is what every day is like in pvp. Simply put you are wrong. Trash talk seldom goes blue and is actually more kindergarten in nature and pretty friendly ribbing for the most part.
I think everyone agreed that PvP 1.0 was a better game and the PvP 2.0 changes were not an improvement. The question are PvP drops helping PvP and the implied why or why not ?Quote:There is also camaraderie and the challenge of something more than bonehead npcs to predictably whack at for hours on end. If you think pvpos are the only draw why was pvp so much stronger before they came into being?
You have to tell me what you think my core issues are ? I know many people that just don't want to get involved in the pvp community for some or all of the reasons I presented.Quote:the stuff contained in the {} covers more of your core issues with this than anything else you have posted.
vsQuote:Its is truly amazing how you can only see the best on one side and only the worst on the other.
What I have been saying is no one should have to go through that kind of agita just to pvp.Quote:If you think its crazy to repsec for pvp you should have been a pvper for a long and having to respec at least 1-4 toons every patch that changed powers and sometimes even more than that.
What I have been getting back is people saying if newbies don't get the pain we had to go through, and we don't get to wail on them with the that extra edge above skill, it devalues our accomplishments.
To that I say, don't be surprised that people aren't flocking to the arenas, and the devs are deaf to your concerns and have a very localized case of alzheimers about anything they may have said concerning them.
I see lots of reasons people play this game, but all I can say with certainty is that it is my opinion that your description of why the majority of people play this game is at best inadequate.Quote:What pvpers do is not easy, but we do enjoy it that is why we are there. No amount of adding pvpos or any kind of rewards will make people enjoy it, that is where the true problem lies in this game. Its a game created in the pve world for you to always be better than your enemy. A very large portion of people play this game just for that reason, its fun and easy in pve. It is very hard to get someone who likes the game for those reasons to want to move to a harder area with more losing. This is no blame of pvpers or even the devs for that matter. Its just human nature and nothing we will ever change. The only real way they could deal with it is try to draw in entirely new players who seek more competitive game play. As this is an old mmorpg I doubt they would ever consider sinking that amount of investment into it. -
Quote:Not at all, I actually kind of like the current pvp and even liked the old one better, even though it had much bigger problems.Originally Posted by Lucky666
What you said is mostly true but do you want the pvpers to lie to the pvers and tell them there gimped builds are good or the truth? I prefer true over sugar coated lies anytime.
There is only a select few that trash talk outright in zones that I notice and then those that only trashtalk if their getting trashed talked, if you can't take it well grow some thicker skin it'll do you good both in pvp and the real world.
I want to answet this question specically
*is there anything that is really great?
Yes the joy of fighting real PCs and not dumb NPCs that have the same routine all the time. The exileration in over coming the odds against real PCs not NPCs. PVP is a game about brains where as pve is your typical hack n slash/blast rpg.
Its just that this thread has gone from PvEers wont PvP for the rewards, to they feel entitled to win, to they should have to wade through crap to get a chance to win, to if they they expect some kind of balance in the game they are whiney hot house flowers who want to drag PvPers down.
It may or may not be so, but this thred looks like pve,er has a chance to trade punches with Mike Tyson, and when he gets to the arena, instead of wearing boxing gloves Iron Mike has a 20lb sledge hammer in his hands. The pvpers just seem to be saying don't worry about the sledge you were going to lose anyway. -
Are PvP drops actually helping PvP a hypothetical conversation between a PvPer and a PvEer
PVE: Hi, I heard that PvP is kind of fun in this game can you help me get started.
PVP: Well its not nearly as fun anymore its a game that might as well been made by a moron
PVE: Oh but if I wanted to give it a try.
PVP: Ok lets look at you. Your power selections are crap
PVE: I have to do a second build ?
PVP: No you have to do second character (SR/Ice Blast/Empathy .../Fire control) are all worthless.
PVE: Ok so I have to do a second character and get him up level and this will put me on an even footing ? That is kind of tough it took me a long time to get this one done.
PvP: Oh don't expect to be on an even footing, you have a SO build, There are all kinds of specialists out there that will just destroy you with that. If you dont have KB protection/Plus perception/increased HP/ Increased Recharge
PVE: Its going to take me hundreds of hours to get that done, I mean I have been playing the game for years and my main still isn't where I want him to be.
PVP: Well get your character powerleveled and use the market or find some other fast way to raise inf.
PVE: Once I do all that its really fun at least ?
PVP: Oh Yeah, Black Barrier has great tales of how he got people so upset they were sending him hate mail, and Skeet destroyed badgers by the bucketload while they were in zone.*
*Read prior posts in this thread. I have considerably worse these are just convenient.
PVE: [sheepishly] well the conversation and atmosphere is good ?
PVP: Yeah as long as you can get past the mental game and the things people will say to put you off your game.
PVE: Like what ? Are they going to point behind me and say wow claudia shiffer ? Female Characters go around flashing ?
PVP: No more like if they think you are female they will suggest you put strange things into odd orifices, scratch that they will suggest that even if you are male. You know things they think will really rile you up and get you to make stupid moves.
PVE: Is there anything thats really great ?
PVP: Well there are these drops you can get only in PvP.
PVE: Well thanks, I'll get back to you on this. Our SG is having a dance party costume contest next week, some really nice people will be there.
{PVEer to himself: Boy that was close, glad I decided to check things out first}
PVP: I'll get back to you on that. {To himself: Whiny fing Carebear what did he expect it would be like}
Or perhaps he would say something like this quote to himself about the PvEer just being a precious flower.
Quote:Originally Posted by macskull
The players who do want to put in the time, inf, and effort to get better at something shouldn't get dragged down to the level of those who don't - but everyone is a precious little flower, and having their feelings get hurt is a big no-no. Thing is, everyone has equal access to the tools needed to do well in PvP (and PvE for that matter). If they don't want to use those tools, they should be disadvantaged compared to those who do. If they don't think it's okay to put time and effort into making themselves better, they're playing the wrong game, and they have little right to do anything other than whine.
I do have to ask if you are better at something just how are they dragging you down again ? -
Presents still spawning far below the level of the opener.
Was just hunting them in Peregrine Island on my main and the spawns are still 3 to 6 levels below my level and they aren't aggroing on me. -
Quote:In case you weren't aware in guildwars you don't pay the subscription but pay for packs you want to use.Originally Posted by UberGuy
So, let me get this straight. You're not OK with people having to spend time obtaining gear by playing the game, but you're OK with players spending real world money for the advantage of skill unlocks? That's you're idea of a level playing field? Heh.
So you do play it ? Did you just gloss over its payment model to completely miss the point ? I would list more but that would only be things I have heard of. For instance I have heard Warhammer enforces a measure of equality in PvP by turning players that are overpowered for an area into chickens. Its intriguing but without actually playing it I can't really comment.Quote:You'll likely disagree with me, but I very much discount the like 4 billion little free web MMOs. I should have attached the word "mainstream" to "every MMO". I'm talking about MMOs where there was a retail box, which have hung around for something like 3+ years, and which most gamers have at least heard of. Of those, GW is the closest to the ideal you seem to seek. It's also the only one I know of for which PvE can be said to not be the primary focus of the designers. GW feels like a PvP game with PvE attached.
This would be relevant because people don't use those builds in the game ?Quote:I think you really just don't get the mentality of people on these forums. People frequently state build advice for achieving absolutely maximal performance, even if it's just a bit better than the next thing down. They paint total blue sky, explain why it's worth having. Then they expect people to pick and choose what they actually want and can afford. An extra 20% global recharge or 10% range or a missing proc in some attack aren't insignificant, but they also probably aren't the difference in a win or loss except in already close contests. (That holds true in PvE, too.)
Oh wait, Yes they do use those builds in the game and yes they do give an advantage.
So all the budding pvper who doesn't have good gear should do is find people who suck but have good gear ?Quote:You're seem to be saying that if you don't follow the blue-sky advice, you'll suck. That's preposterous. It's not like there is this binary state transition between "helpless" and "godly" that you won't trigger without doing everything people suggest.
Yes, we know what you are saying is true because when PVP had people in it you couldn't find teams ganking badgers.Quote:I mean what I'm about to say very earnestly. You think that only because you truly, honestly are not grasping the mentalities behind the actions. You see people doing things, imagine everyone else doing them for only the reasons that you would do them (which are apparently negative), and prejudge everyone based on that.
There's just one problem: Your interpretations are wrong... but it's pretty clear no one is going to convince you of that.
I know this will bounce off you like bullets off superman. Its pretty obvious this is now a form of pvp for you but here is the logical breakdown .
1. There is no need for a specialized PvP build generic PvE builds will perform effectively in PvP.
If that is your position there are SR scrappers that might like to have a word with you.
2. There is a need for a specialized, optimized build, it does provide advantages , while it may or may not be the determining factor it is a significant factor.
Now under this scenario, and considering the people who are serious about PvP do have them, just what is the barrier to entry for the new player ? Given that barrier is it any great surprise that no one is flocking to pvp. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
PvP in every MMO that's existed disagrees with your conclusion. Of course, part of that is your wild overstatement of the challenges created by the loot, but I think we get that you aren't actually very familiar with how it all works.
I read that and stopped
http://www.guildwars.com/products/ex...ks/default.php
http://www.travian.us/
http://www.kingory.com/
It seems you aren't familiar with the word every. Those are just games off the top of my head. As to wild overstatement of the value of loot, for something that is unimportant, you seem to go to great lengths to defend its acquisition, everyone who I know that does pvp goes to great lengths to acquire it, if you read the pvp boards the builds all use it, and people exhorted to get it.
Actions put the lie to your words. -
Quote:Originally Posted by UberGuy
Talk about projecting. There's no bewilderment, except perhaps at your posts. We understand "fair" just fine. Fair isn't "everyone gets the same thing just by virtue of signing on". That's fair in non-persistent settings. This is a persistent one.
No what you don't get is that most people aren't willing to be punching bags for your amusement. When someone who doesn't pvp is presented with the choices needed to play in the pvp environment and do well they overwhelmingly say thanks no thanks, wheres call of duty hanging out. -
Quote:Amazing all I got from this was a small number of people bewildered at the concept of fair play. Either that or the only joy they can have is beating on people who aren't able to fight back.Originally Posted by UberGuy
I felt a great disturbance in the Force. It was like a million purpled warshades, crying out in unison, then suddenly silenced.
-
Quote:Thank you for projecting. I am very sorry you can't understand how people might not consider it fun to "work my *** off for hundreds of hours doing things that some people find unpleasant" in an activity that is described as a game.Originally Posted by Werner
I'm willing to work my *** off for hundreds of hours doing things that some people find unpleasant so that I can have the best equipment. You're apparently not. You don't want to put in the effort, but you still think you deserve the same equipment as me, that it's unfair to you to not have it. Why should you be given the same rewards for no effort that I earned through a lot of effort? To me, that's VERY much "Everyone's a winner! Gold stars for everyone!"
Once again way to project. I believe you are the one who stated that they don't pvp while I actually do. Not much but when my server is having an event or there is activity in RV I will go in. If things are too ridiculously lopsided I'll leave.Quote:You seem to assume that everyone else that isn't playing is staying away for the exact same reasons you are. I don't know what the percentage might be, but whatever it is, you're making a VERY broad assumption. We'll never find out, but I strongly suspect that if we changed it to be exactly what YOU want, almost nobody would play your version of PvP either. You haven't impressed me as someone that has his finger on the pulse of what PvPers want out of a game.
Anyway back to my "broad assumption". It is no more broad than my guess that most people wouldn't want to share a cell with Mike Tyson or wouldn't want to play a game of who can punch the softest with Muhammad Ali in his prime.
When I used be heavy into FPS there would always be someone who would shout "Stop moving so I can shoot you". Here its "stop whining and just revive so I can farm you".
If you feel entitled to having every advantage in the book don't be surprised when people feel just entitled not to play with you.
Just how big an advantage do you need before you become comfortable ? At what point does it stop being a game, a friendly contest, and becomes something else very ugly.
The only thing I have seen from the people voicing your opinion is that they should have the right to beat on people using superior gear and if the people with inferior gear don't like it they should suck it up and lose or wade through crap to get good gear so they can beat on people with inferior gear.
Yes once again, pay your dues and you get to beat on someone.Quote:Yes, true, at least once you've served enough time to hit level 50. But it's an MMO, so you have persistent equipment, and better equipment than your opponents does of course give you some advantage, more in some situations, less in others. The persistent equipment, or at least differences in equipment, seems to be what you don't like about it, or at least one of the main things you don't like about it. Remove that, and you're at pretty much pure FPS, which seems to be what you want. Nothing wrong with that. But everyone running around with the same equipment that they didn't have to earn doesn't sound much like a normal MMO. -
Quote:Originally Posted by macskull
People build certain ways for PvP because those are the most effective ways, just like people build certain ways for farming or AV/GM soloing. You don't need IOs or accolades for zone PvP, though they're extremely helpful especially in team and solo arena matches. You don't need accolades or IOs for PvE, though they're helpful. Your goal is to make your build as good as you possibly can, and accolades and IOs are a helpful tool in reaching that goal.
I just saw this again and had to laugh even harder.
Yep you don't need accolades or IOs to farm only if you want to farm quickly.
You don't need accolades or IOs to solo AVs or GMs only if you want to succeed or unless by solo you mean having a couple of buffers standing nearby.
For pvp well you don't need them if the other people don't have them or are really unskilled or you just went to pvp for sterling conversation and accurate descriptions of your immediate family winning not being all that important. -
Quote:I12 there was even on low volume servers. All the conditions to create the problem with the exception of the population needed are still there.Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
Eat cake?
For shivans and nukes, organized opposition in bloody bay or warburg is non-existent.
Tell it to a badger, IIRC correctly there was a thread on the badges forum just recently on how to get the rep badge without pvping. Seems they have a different view about this.Quote:None of the time or rep badges are required for anything. A badge represents having done something. If you aren't interested in doing what the badge signifies, no cake for you. -
Quote:PVP zones are the only places you can get certain pve tools and badges. If you want Marshall or Born in Battle you have to go to them. If you are a badger you not only have to go there but you have to spend much time there and find some way to farm rep.Originally Posted by Catwhoorg
Except it isn't.
The only places in CoX where PVP occurs, both parties have consented by their actions. Entering a PvP zone activates your PvP flag, same as entering an arena. -
Had that with the defeat weakened Hamidon mission. Drag the rikti in, defeat the mitos, defeat the pylons defeat the pylons Hami explodes, go out the mission is still there. Repeat, call a gm, gm resets it, repeat, repeat next thing you know half the team is gone and the rest don't have a chance.
-
Quote:Quick question, how do you go from equal access to equipment and a balanced contest to everyone wins and gold stars for every one ?Originally Posted by Werner
Then I'm really just ugly in your mind, because it sounds like we're down to a fundamental difference now. I'm not a fan of "Everyone's a winner! Gold stars for everyone!" I think that the player that spent hundreds of hours practicing their PvP skills should have an advantage over the one who just wandered casually into the zone. I think that the player that spent hundreds of hours outfitting their character should have an advantage over one who refuses to put in that kind of effort. If equipment is your main objection, then what I'm hearing from the people who appear to be most experienced at PvP 2.0 is that equipment is not nearly the advantage that skill and experience are except in otherwise very equal button-mashing contests like fight clubbing.
I really didn't want to use this card, but people aren't playing. I can walk into zones on almost any server as I write this and they will be deserted even though other zones are active and healthy. That is once again despite the fact there are rewards in the zones that are worth billions.Quote:I don't care if people with your preferences don't play. Plenty of people actually LIKE the MMO model of PvP. So if they play, and the people that don't like it don't play or play some other game, everyone will be happy. I'm not SHOCKED that you don't like the MMO model of PvP. Lots of people don't. But honestly, it's the MMO model. Just as I shouldn't be shocked that you don't like it, you shouldn't be shocked that others do, and very much consider it a game, even a FAIR game.
Even with the old pvp this would likely be true.
I have to think about this. Am I making a request, is that request that our mmo pvp be turned into a fps, are all models of mmo pvp consistent with your description. Well last first not all MMOs use that model not even all mmo rpgs. Second by your own description and parameters the game is already more FPS than RPG. Skill in moving the characters around and coordinating fire trumps time served in the rpg.Quote:Yes, and I can't bring special pieces with special powers to a game of chess just because I can afford them. I hear what you're saying. But if I COULD bring those special, uber-expensive chess pieces to a game, that would be the MMO model - all of the mini-games tied together. Sports is a first person shooter. Again, perhaps you would prefer first person shooters. That's fine. Just please don't request that MMOs be turned into first person shooters just because you like those better.
Am I making a request ? Well this started with the observation that most people aren't enjoying pvp enough to participate in it and some of the reasons why.
As I said earlier the attitude that says yes "I have to have my additional advantages over and above skill and practice and I should be able to beat the other guy into ground with them till he is completely disgusted" is the surest sign that more along the lines of homogenization and DR is coming. With DR the devs seem to be saying you can have your advantages but we are going to do our best to make certain they don't matter. -
Quote:First the reason for revenue sharing was so that there would be balance in the sport and that it didn't become a permanent blowout for whatever team had the most profitable market. The people who run major league baseball read the tea leaves and realized baseball would likely go away if they didn't do something. Eerily familiar isn't that ?
In major league baseball or any major professional sport, revenue streams work nothing like how they do for players in this game (or any game I know of). They make money based on ticket sales, game viewership and advertising/marketing deals. Here, we make money by ... playing the game. The revenue sharing I spoke of is that if player A has the cash to buy a purple or whatever from player B, then player B now has most of the money they need to buy a purple, or probably a whole bunch of other stuff.
Second the purple drop rate for an average player is supposed to be one every six weeks or so (bit of trivia off the old boards). To put 2 sets of five in would take how long by just having them drop ?
Oh that's funny. They aren't ten times better they are only worth ten times as much.Quote:PvPOs are only orders of magnitude better in sale price, . -
Quote:Let them eat cake. I know you are aware of this but the points need to be made. For villains if you want your accolades you have to go into pvp zones. Shivans and warburg nukes are what often save otherwise failed tfs. Even if you can bob and weave like a pro its not going to do you much good when the Jets defensive line is charging you and its just you.Originally Posted by UberGuy
If you're a badge hunter in a PvP zone then yes. I agree. If you don't want that to happen, you shouldn't shop at the store on the 30-yard line. If you really want to buy the stuff you can only get at that store, then ask the owner to move the store off the field or learn to bob and weave like a pro.
You know we have a market or two in the real world, somehow that didn't stop major league baseball from needing a revenue sharing system. It also hasn't stopped America's cup racing from putting in very rigid standards on the yachts you can race. (Oh somehow I think the people mounting cup challenges are actually familiar with how markets work)Quote:Indeed. Did you know we have a revenue sharing system here? It's called... the market!
And somehow this makes it a balanced match for someone who is purpled out with set bonuses and a build with plus perception, phase powers, all single target attacks, to fight someone with a pve build ?Quote:And in CoH, a non-purple IO only ever gives you a max of 42.8% enhancement to damage, endurance or recharge. (A purple always gives a max of 53%.)
The point being that the largest rewards in the game are still not enough to get people into pvp. Think about that, there a pvp drops that are an order of magnitude bigger than any other loot in the game and people who will spend hours farming demons or laying waste to freaks to get loot just go, nahhhh.Quote:No, it's not. It might be, but there a ton of other factors involved, like whether PvP here is enjoyable, whether there are enough people playing, or what the prevailing views on the very nature of PvP are among the larger player base. The counter evidence to your statement is that more people were playing PvP before I13's changes.
Quote:No, it's an unreasonable sense of entitlement for someone to declare that they don't want to do what others did to reach their levels of performance, even when they can. The system is fair in the sense that everyone has the same access, and what's fun is always subjective.
Edit: I think we've been dancing around the same points for long enough that we're not making any headway. I think having loot be part of an MMO's PvP is fine, so long as everyone has equal potential to obtain them. With that said, I'll bow out of this debate.
Wow I just thought the game was supposed to be fun for everyone. -
Quote:Once again if that football game were our pvp, ed would be going out to get groceries when the patriots would suddenly bear down on himOriginally Posted by UberGuy
Ed from Maui probably wouldn't end up in an NFL game against the Patriots. Now, he might have the luck to end up in a shirts game where a bunch of them play. Hopefully, the Patriots would have the sportsmanship to not all play on the same side in that game. Ed might get the chance to ask some of them how they got where they are, and if he really liked the thrill of playing with guys of their caliber, it might inspire him to really apply himself to playing football well.
To take your examples in particular the Yankees, major league baseball realized that having horribly imbalanced teams with completely unequal access to resources was bad for the sport and implemented revenue sharing to level the playing field. Another good example is golf, where the distance a golf ball can travel from a given hit is standardized and controlled in the professional leagues.Quote:Edit: Here's the thing. You keep drawing analogies with stateless, non-persistent games, like chess, football. In theory, you start every contest with a level playing field. (In reality, pro sports teams with better income from ticket sales and TV earnings do sometimes have advantages in terms of gear, better stadiums, better staff, and even better players. NY Yankees, anyone?) Persistent MMOs have different rules. They're about building up characters from scratch, and retaining that advancement from day to day.
You can say MMOs have different rules all you want but the bottom line is no one wants to play poker with a crooked dealer a stacked deck and against someone with an unlimited credit. The fact that there are PvP IOs worth billions of inf that can drop in pvp but people still stay away in droves is great confirmation of this.
Then again I suppose its just an unreasonable sense of etitlement that people have that pvp should be fair and fun. -
Quote:If chess were run like our pvp the grandmaster would be given an extra rook on the basis of his ranking and would always get white for his color. (if you dont play chess, white moves first)Originally Posted by UberGuy
Welcome to every game in existence. Should someone who's only played chess a few times expect to win against a grand master? Even in FPS games where there is zero equipment advantage, additional advantages exist for people who have skill and familiarity advantages with a game.
The rest of your post was just one more attempt to try and confuse playing skill with having better gear. If you have better skill it is its own reward. If you truly have superior skill and equal gear you are going to win and you hardly need the better gear to win. -
Quote:Well I agree but its a stretch to see how that applies to pvp. If PVP were football, you would have a situation where the patriots as a team would be playing ed from maui whose only sport is surfing for his gear he is wearing a pair of shorts and flip flops, and instead of just helmets and padding the patriots are wearing riot gear, have shields and all have been taking steroids.Originally Posted by SkeetSkeet
Name one sport worth playing where investing time beforehand in practice, training and study of the game does NOT provide an advantage. The goal in PVP is a level playing field not "equal" players.