Alabaster12
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Posts
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Joined
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Quote:Pretty much this. I hate the look of every other armor powers in the stone armor set (except maybe minerals), and really hate the times when I have to go outside of granite from an aesthetic perspective. Playing around on test, power customization didn't really do anything to change that for me. It's the symmetry, and the fact that having pieces of rock overlaying on a costume just doesn't make any sense at all to me thematically (as opposed to say ice or fire... cooling or heating the air around the costume makes a lot of sense to me).Originally Posted by Bionic_Flea
If Granite ends up looking like the other stone armors, then I don't think that I would like the new granite.
If Granite still covered you completely, but you could colorize it, that would be cool.
If you are working with Castle on a revamp of the stone armor set with granite taking a hit, the others getting a buff, and a player needing to run multiple overlaying stone armors, then I will pray for you and wish you luck. I have never liked the look of the other stone armors, much less when someone is running multiple armors. But if you can make that work into some seemless whole that looks good, more power to you.
I'd rather have ALL of the armors in the set be the same as Granite in that they cover the entire costume than the other way around, even if it means I can't customize the powers.
My 2 cents. -
The question comes down to what do you want to build for. (assuming IO's).
With IO's any tank can be an extremely tough tank.
If you want to build for defenses then Inv, Shield, WP would work pretty well for you
If you want to build for end usage then dark might be what you're looking for
If you want to build for mobility and recharge going with stone would be advisable.
Personal experience says stone is by far the most expensive of the 3 choices above, however once you build it you can literally afk on LR, or virtually anything in the game and sit there an laugh. LotG's and building for recharge in general is astronomically expensive however so unless you have a lot of cash I wouldn't recommend it. The nice part I've found about my stone/fire tank is that due to the extreme recharge I've found that it is actually an exceptional solo-ist outside of granite as well. It solo's better than any other tank (and even some non-tanks) that I currently have just due to not using up any sets for defensive stats.
Building for defense is the cheapest option above but again it probably depends on your wallet, and your playstyle. -
I'd say anything but dark is simple.
Having end issues to the point where you have to plan out what attack types are going to hit you the most is a bit more complicated.
Everything else is pretty similarly simple.
Stone requires a lot of effort/inf to overcome it's main weakness (movement, damage, recharge) but it is very tolerant for survivability.
Inv is pretty cookie cutter but you have to be in range of enemies for it to be effective and have a psi hole.
WP is also very cookie cutter (even more so than Inv) has no specific survivability weaknesses (jack of all trades, master of none) but you might have issues holding agro.
Ice is agro king and will hold against anything, but defense can be a bit spikey.
Fire is good damage, good regen, but can be harder to use until you get IO's.
Shield is good damage, good defenses and in general is all around fun.
All of the secondaries are equal in their simplicity with the exception of DB.
I realize that probably doesn't help you decide much but each tank primary/secondary is more flavor and personal playstyle than which one is easier, harder, better, worse. -
Quote:Solo... maybe, but I don't think it would matter that much in teams, and I see tankers all the time complaining about end problems even in groups. Whatever buff you would give to tankers damage wouldn't make that much of a difference in the fight time of an 8 person group in order to change their end THAT much. Unless you're talking about massive damage buffs... which you claim not to be.Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Tankers only have endurance problems because they expend the same endurnace per attack as everyone, but the damage they deal per attack is less.
No one ever said it would have no effect on end. But it isn't the only solution, and just because you want it doesn't mean it should be implemented. That isn't a good enough reason.Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Improving Tanker damage would improve their endurnace efficiency. That's a fact.
And even more of them (I would argue even the large majority of them) present questions/holes for your little theory to which you selectively quote them (ignoring very major points) and effectively say nothing more than "I'm right and your wrong, move along kidd-o" in a very demeaning way.Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
There are a number of people in both this and Starsman's thread who've indicated they think improving Tanker offensive capabilities would improve their stacking for teams.
You mean you told him to come back when he was worthy of your time, and then suggested your ideas over his turning it into a flame war. Or are you going to deny that tank-omination came up in that same thread.... again.Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
Starsman was advocating an almost imperceptable increase in damage tied to a slightly unwieldly mechanic. I pointed out the flaws in his proposal, especially from a conceptual standpoint, which was his stated purpose for said proposal. I offered him both encourangement to further develop the idea and suggestions on directions he could go with it.
You incite people responding to you the way they do by being rude, demeaning, and in general having a "my way or the highway" attitude. You make no concessions, have zero understanding for others opinions, and give no justification for your ideas besides "it's the way I want it and I'm right". Then you throw on a tin-foil hat and somehow think that the devs are plotting against tankers as if you were somehow living a comic in real life.Quote:Originally Posted by Johnny_Butane
You're correct, many people turn out to troll me. You included, on occasion.
If you seriously can't see that you have become the biggest hurdle to any idea you might possibly have getting heard or implemented then I don't know what to say. It's your response and demeanor that gets you completely ignored, combine that with your insane, bordering on conspiracy theory, rants it's a wonder anyone at all doesn't have you blocked completely.
Either that or they are like me and enjoy reading the dra-mah.
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Quote:If you actually read those threads.... most of them are about something OTHER than an increase in damage. Most of them are about endurance, or stacking both of which are probably reasonable problems to solve for tankers. One is about the agro cap.Originally Posted by Boxcars
Exaggerate much? Just taking a quick look at the Tanker board and I see at least 6 active threads about ways to change tankers. J_B certainly posted in these threads, but didn't start them:
Gauntlet 2.0 by Starsman
Let Tankers be Tankers by Kruunch
So How about this then by EmporerSteele
A long and excessively complicated tanker fix by SpittingTrashcan
How many new players have to complain by Kruunch
Tackling tanker stacking and end efficiency by Sarrate
No one - not even J_B is suggesting that tankers should do more damage than scrappers. As long as scrappers do more damage, they will be relevant. (Personally, I think Brutes have a better chance of rendering scrappers irrelevant than tankers.)
The only major thread that is currently active about a damage increase (Gauntlet 2.0) was one where Starsman suggested a small increase to damage for gauntlet (as a flavor/concept effect if I'm not mistaken however he can correct me) and J_B entered the thread saying that it wasn't nearly ENOUGH damage and proceeded to turn it into a flame fest of off track posts where he tried to justify his ideas.
I don't believe it is an exaggeration to state that virtually every thread that is presented involving damage or concept changes to tankers turns into a J_B troll-fest about how he's right and everyone else is wrong.
Take this thread as an example, and virtually every other one he's ever posted in. It's actually the ultimate irony because he's become the main force standing in the way of any of his ideas being heard, or implemented. I would be SHOCKED if a dev actually listened to a word he said since it would set a precedent that whining, trolling, and in general being a nuisance is the way to get the ear of a dev on the forums. -
Quote:Then if you are that unhappy leave and let those of us who enjoy the system they've created enjoy it. I'm sure you won't be missed. In fact I would encourage it since one less farmer/power leveler makes my game experience that much better.Originally Posted by Kruunch
Ok that's even worse ... then according to you the current content relies on the players not even *getting* to max level.
But no ... despite Aett's exclamations of "CoH was made to be a different MMO" .... and Sorciere's persian bizarre ideas of what MMO game play (and CoH's for that matter) are and should be, CoH was developed as a classic MMO with a super hero skin. The only truly revolutionary idea they had (past the physics which are awesome) was a "lootless" system, and we've all seen how well that worked out.
The one thing they (the devs) have simply failed to provide in any meaningful way is something for your character to do once it hits max level (no matter how fast or slow you get there). -
Quote:You have me until you say this.Originally Posted by Kruunch
In this regard I think CoH fails, in that the current content relies upon players being satisfied with achieving maximum level and repeating the process over and over again.
This statement is from the perspective of someone who races through content and farms/power levels their way up.
I don't agree at all that the current content relies on players achieving maximum level then repeating it. I have some characters that I created in 2004, still play them every once and a while, and are sitting just now in their mid-late 30's. I don't play them frequently at all, but I've had a blast playing the character.
I've been playing off and on for 5 years, and I have a grant total of 4 50's. 2 hero, 2 villain. Other than that I have a character in just about every single level range in the game. I've had some fantastic experiences with characters I created, leveled until pretty much all of the ranges and then let sit to try another one. Some of them as low as level 8 and others as high as 42, just sitting there because I'm not in any gigantic rush. I had some great great times playing those characters, but this game is not about getting to 50 to me, and clearly that is where the disconnect is. -
I guess I missed this:
http://twitter.com/Positron_CoH
Quote:I can't believe we forgot the patch note about Pets zoning with their owners in I16 .12:58 PM Aug 5th from TweetDeck
*Very Happy* -
Quote:One could even say I was Going Rogue.Originally Posted by McBoo
You are truly evil......
>
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Quote:Wow. Those look great.Originally Posted by Genesis_Man
The info in the title is all there was on his Twitter page.
However, I'm pretty sure you can see both themes in this video... or at the very least what they looked like at Comicon: http://www.youtube.com/user/GrumbleC.../4/0X1Hi3sOS5U
Hopefully this isn't technically helping leak info... I would assume not since it was publicly viiewable at the Con. <shrug>
Can't wait for the new animations. -
Quote:Lava and Crystal sound pretty cool. Also... he dislikes Jon and Kate and that is a message I can get behind.Originally Posted by Caulderone
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Quote:Apparently I shouldn't have brought it up since it is in fact an "epic fail".Originally Posted by McBoo
Why would you bring up such painful memories? Have we offended you in some way?
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Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
Seriously? Levelling was slow pre-ED? Debt??
Just wow ... epic fail.Contradicting yourself in the same thread (unless you were able to get from 1-50 in 7 hours pre-ED)?Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
I currently level toons 1-50 in 7 hours played.
Yeah that "fix" worked out real well.
The fact that you even bring up things like "epic fail" because someone doesn't fly through the game as fast as you shows this. I don't play this game to fly through it, I play this game to enjoy the experience. I guess if you've just been powerleveling and farming (which seems to be the case from your recollections in this thread) for the entire time you've played this game that would be your experience and you would think it was just a huge dig on me to claim that I didn't go as "fast" as you. It isn't.
It's quite clear that you are looking for a different game Kruunch. This game has NEVER been about end game and has always been about the journey. You obviously don't like that paradigm that is vastly different from a typical MMO and so therefore you complain and want to make it "easier" to power level all your characters up and even boast about it as if it is some great feat.
Level 1-50 in 7 hours isn't something to be proud of, it just shows that you do everything you possibly can do to avoid actually playing this game and have now perfected that to power yourself up in the quickest manner possible, and I'm not quite sure why you would bother anymore. If you find that fun, by all means continue to do so, but those of us who actually play the game (see I can turn it back on you since you already questioned it towards me) don't want to ruin our game so you can avoid the game at a faster rate.
Perhaps instead you should just move on to another game that has an end game that you can power yourself to and call it a day. -
Quote:QROriginally Posted by Aett_Thorn
1) You mean the steps they took to smooth out the XP curve don't count as trying to, umm...fix the leveling curve? I believe, but could be wrong, that that was done either before or at the same time as Ouroburus went live.
For someone who is trying to seem so superior to everyone else because of his early game knowledge Kruunch sure doesn't remember how monumentally difficult the leveling curve used to be. When debt actually had a bite to it, and when gaining a single level was a feat post level 20-30. I remember going through entire task forces (which took substantially longer than today) and not leveling at all and just hoping I would dump my debt. -
Quote:Which is exactly the same.Originally Posted by Kruunch
Didn't say I was better ... just that I was around for herding back in the old days and a lot of people commenting on it weren't. Despite when they say they created their accounts
You're saying:
Here is my experience and I owned herding.
Everyone else is saying:
That wasn't how I saw it and I was there back then.
Your response:
Well you're wrong and I'm right and you clearly are lying or are just pathetic.
Since when did I say it was faster? Just that it was popular and trivialized content which it did. Just because something is slower doesn't mean it isn't trivializing the content. The plain and simple fact is that 7 other people in the group were sitting there and barely even seeing the maps, not even noticing where spawns were laid out, and were in general not actually doing anything but waiting for a gigantic group to appear to kill. This was also an extremely popular (as you've admitted) and even expected thing to do. That is trivializing content regardless of whether it was actually faster than other min/max activities or not.Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
See I don't think you did experience herding. Mission map herding was a very quick flash in the pan because it was proven over and over again that it was actually slower then just cruising through the mission with the group (a game myth that both me and Havok debunked way back in the day).
Thank you though for continuing to tell me what I did and did not do in this game. It really does put this entire idea of yours into perspective and shows me never to listen to another one.
This is not trivializing content in the same way I was describing. The content is still there. It was made easier for most of those. The AE system should definitely be looked at but even in that case people are at least actively moving through a map, which can't be said for the case of herding.Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
Since then we've had many more ways of trivializing content instituted by the developers including IOs, positional defense and the AE system. All of these do *much* more to trivialize the game then repealing the agro cap ever would.
You're stating your opinion that an extremely large group of people in this thread seem to disagree with. Your only way of dealing with this fact seems to be in putting those people down instead of actually responding.Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
So while I'd agree with you in theory on a freshly released MMO, that's just not the game you are playing today, whether you want to deceive yourself or not.
Thanks for the challenge, but I honestly don't care about what you think so I don't need it to dawn on me why you think it's silly. The fact that you even made this statement shows me that you have an extreme need to be superior to everyone else who plays this game when it is quite simply ... a game. It's pretty sad when you think about it.Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
I've seen this posted in other threads and even other MMO boards and it's a silly statement. If you think about it long enough it will dawn on you why.
You're right I wasn't actually playing the game. I was just sitting around doing nothing while you were experiencing everything this game could possibly offer. We all bask in the glory that is your abilities at playing this game. /sQuote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
Just an FYI ... the difference (apparently) between you and me ... I actually played the game back then, and at all levels the game had to offer.
Dunno what you were doing.
Grow up. Seek therapy. -
Quote:Oh the old... you guys aren't as good as me because you weren't around so you don't know what you're talking about ploy.Originally Posted by Kruunch
I find it ironic that the vast majority of people posting here (both pro and con) have never really experienced true herding from back in the day.
I can only assume that for many of these people, they are picking up the pro/con debates that older players have made, based upon preference for the player and their own thoughts on hypothetical situations that haven't actually encountered.
I did a *ton* of herding back in the day. I herded whole mission maps and entire sections of zones. Let me try to debunk a little of the misinformation about herding (and the agro cap):
1) Herding was primarily done (after the yaya factor) to clear mission maps faster and/or gain XP faster. It was back then, not the most efficient method of XP/inf farming. CoT portal missions (which were nerfed) and bridging the demon farms (which still exists today) were far more efficient. It would even be less efficient then doing the AE farms today (as is all other forms of prior farming). If the farming aspect is what bothers you, then I suggest you take a look at the genre of game you are playing. MMOs are built on repetitive game play as part of their business model ... in other words they depend on players farming.
2) Players getting kicked from teams for not wanting to herd ... I never kicked a player once from one of my teams because they didn't want to herd ... in fact I only ever had one complaint about in the entire time we did it, and that was a simple "I don't like herding" and the person left of his own volition. If you don't like it, you don't to do it. Fairly simple.
These are the only two real debates I've heard against lifting the agro cap. I can understand if it does nothing for your game, but why would you go out of your way to try and block something that many other people would enjoy very much?
Again, the sad truth is that CoH doesn't offer the content to continue characters. That leaves the player with a few choices ... continually build new characters and/or farm with max level characters. I *want* more content. I've wanted more quality content for this game since beta. Alas, Paragon Studios and Cryptic before them either don't understand what content for an MMO entails or don't have the development team to keep up (or both). To that end, the only things we are left with are ways to make the current content more interesting ... lifting the agro cap would help achieve this in a very simple to implement way.
I experienced herding. I even enjoyed it for a small period of time, but the problem with systems in games that trivialize content or make it so you are sitting around for large periods of time is that they frequently get very boring, very quickly. People might like them for a while, but eventually they start to question what they are even doing in the game if all they have to do is sit there and hit a few buttons every 5-10 mins only to keep doing that over and over.
MMO's can be about grinding, but usually they aren't ONLY about grinding. Otherwise there would be no point towards releasing new content patches. If people could be satisfied just doing the same thing over and over indefinitely then why bother changing the game. Find something they like to do, and keep making it easier.
Oh... and for the record:
Account Created On: Aug 10, 2004 -
Quote:1. All of the other armors besides granite will stack together. Granite can only stack with stone skin, rooted, mud pots, and earths embrace. Granite will not stack with rock armor, crystal armor, brimstone armor, or minerals.Originally Posted by AlsoAnima
Hello. I've just made my first tanker. Or more precisely the first one I'm actually going to play. In any case, I went for a stone/stone tanker, and noticed there were several armor powers.
I'm new to the game, so I'd appreciate it if you could answer my questions.
Do the armors stack, or work together in some fashion?
Is it smart to get one and not the others, or should I get all of them?
Is playing a Tanker better when you start out focusing on the your Primary, or should you balance it out more?
Any other advice?
2. I personally don't find brimstone and crystal armor (and beside some rare cases minerals) to be of use, but your mileage may vary depending on build.
3. That last question is definitely subjective. I personally find that I do well focusing on attacks first and then fill in with my defensive abilities, but playstyle would change this answer dramatically. -
Quote:You keep asking me about farming (in fact you brought it up) so I responded. This idea will do nothing to accelerate farming and I never said it would.Originally Posted by Kruunch
Talking about putting words in people's mouths (amazing the amount of hyprocrisy that resides on these boards) ....
Ok so to clarify, you're saying you can't get a group outside of the AE missions right now and that's making you lean toward leaving the game.
And somehow lifting the agro cap will excellerate this process?
What this idea will potentially do is increase herding, which wasn't a playstyle that I found enjoyable.
I feel like you're just trying to pick a fight when all I'm doing is responding to your questions, so I will bow out at this point. -
Quote:As I'm saying for the 3rd time now. I don't honestly care if people farm, however if that is the only available content that is being done besides soloing then that is what drives me away. I don't play games to judge how others decide to play, and quite simply I won't even shed the smallest tear if I decided to move on to another game (since there are thousands out there) so I don't hold nearly as much of a vested interest in this as a lot of others seem to. I'm just telling you that the current lack of anything outside of AE farms is making me play less. A simple statement that doesn't mean take farming away, or that farmers are ruining the game, or anything else that you want to infer with it, it simply means exactly what I said.Originally Posted by Kruunch
Well no, seriously what part of other people farming draws you away from the game?
Is it that you can't get groups to do normal content now? Or is it the idea of farming in general? What?
I find that most games where farms become ultra popular are due to lack of sustainable recurring content (which CoH is certainly guilty of). Content in this game has always been its Achilles Heel. While lifting the agro cap won't change this, it does bring back a method of making the content more interesting (to some) who wish to participate. At least they'd have the choice (and choice is good in my experience).
As you said choice. Right now the choices for anything outside of an AE farm are a lot more limited than they were. You see that as a good thing, and I don't. Simple as that. -
Quote:I guess I can be crystal clear here...Originally Posted by Kruunch
So basically you don't want anything that changes the status quo?
Or are you saying that you don't like CoH anymore because more people are enjoying themselves now more then at any other point in CoH since I1?
Or does the idea of people actually enjoying a game really bother you?
I'm confused.
Others enjoyment of this game is irrelevant to whether I personally enjoy the game. It doesn't bother me if they enjoy it, but it doesn't help/hurt my decision on whether I actually enjoy it.
I fail to see how repeating the same mission 1000 times, or sitting around gathering an entire room is in any way changing the status quo.
I can understand why you're confused, you're putting words in my mouth that I didn't say at all. -
Quote:I didn't/don't do it. Unfortunately it became the expected behavior since players will typically always take the path of least resistance. Once it became the expected behavior (which would happen as soon as it was either possible or beneficial again) thats when I lose interest.Originally Posted by Kruunch
This is a personal preference and one you can exercise by not doing it.
Giving the players the option rather than some cheap (and immersion breaking I might add) game mechanic doing it for us is the real gist of this.
And I don't know why herding is "bad" per se .... I seem to remember the overwhelming vast majority of players really loving it (both Tankers and non-Tankers).
Sort of reminds me of those people that cry "evil farms" ... yet every night I log on and pull a farm team together, we have a waiting list a dozen deep to get on the team. I haven't seen that kind of interest in this game since .... well ... herding
Shrug.
It's the same reason why I'm playing less and less these days. I'm not going to cry about farms, and obviously they are popular, I just have no interest whatsoever in participating in them for virtually the exact same reasons I dislike herding. Once all other content is no longer being used and people are "only" farming, that's when I disappear.
It's the exact same reason I quit that other gigantic MMO once it became a grindfest that required you to kill the exact same 10 bosses over and over and over week after week to get everyone their "epics".
I realize that might put me in the minority in an MMO context, but I have no interest whatsoever in grinding away doing exactly the same thing over and over and over and over. There is a big difference to me between doing a similar thing, and literally the exact same thing.
I suppose if you and others enjoy that, that is great, and I'm not saying you should stop, or they should stop people from doing it, just that it drives me away. -
Quote:I would consider any move back towards herding a fairly large negative. The main problem is that for everyone else other than the tank it is quite possibly the most boring experience in a game available. Sit and wait 15-20 seconds attack like crazy... sit and wait... rinse/repeat.Originally Posted by Kruunch
I've rarely add another Tanker with the idea of handling over the agro cap. More times then not, its just another Tanker that answers a "Team LFM" global.
In the few spots in this game where split tanking is desireable (i.e. Reichsman and the AV adds), the agro cap doesn't effect this.
Yes it would encourage herding again. I don't consider this a bad thing ... in fact I always though it was one of the positive things that seperated CoH from other MMOs.
It's very tedious. For some reason there is always even that one tanker in the state of the game today that likes to herd (even though it is completely and totally unnecessary) and I pretty much just drop group immediately whenever that happens. Herding as a tactic was quite possibly one of the worst things about this game IMO, and one of the huge reasons that I quit for a couple of years.
And this is coming from someone who spends probably 70-80% of my time in the game tanking. -
Quote:This was my original thought on reading this too. While it would be great for separating tanks from scrappers it would also completely reduce the need for a second tanker in a group which is already a huge problem (bigger I think than scrappers tanking over tankers).Originally Posted by Calash
The down side is that it would reduce the additive value of multiple tanks on a team even lower than it is now. It also encourages herding rather than progressive mission advancement (Moving from one spawn to another).
I think it would be worth wile to at least test and see how it impacts the game.
It would definitely be interesting to test, but I'm not sure it would provide as much value, and could even hurt for tanker stacking. -
Quote:My mistake. No idea where that came into mind.Originally Posted by Kruunch
Ewww lord no. The only Brutes I've played were SS/Inv and SS/WP and Elec/Elec (none to 50).
While I certainly won't dispute that MA produces a lot of bad players, I don't necessarily think that having one power versus many helps that much. The main difference I see is that players can really screw up their power selection with an Inv where they really can screw up their slotting with a Stone. The large portion of the Inv/SS players I've seen had some of the worst builds and weren't even capable of taking a single alpha from anything let alone actually tanking.Quote:Originally Posted by Kruunch
Totally don't understand you here. If you are saying more new players choose Inv/SS then yes I agree. The difference is with Inv/SS there is no apparent overriding power so people have to go out of their way to learn what each power does and how it adds to that build.
With Stone Armor, most people are just told "get to L32 and get Granite, then you're god" and people seem to take this literally and then fail miserably for various reasons.
That's not to say I haven't seen plenty of bad Inv/SS builds, but there just seems to be a glut of new Stone Tankers lately (ala the MA system).
Maybe it's a server thing, and maybe it's because I run my stone tanker a lot but I haven't seen as many bad stone tankers as apparently you have. I also tend to avoid farms and after trying a few servers over the years Virtue in my experience seems to attract players who do a bit of research. -
Quote:Kruunch I thought I remembered from the last stone armor thread how you were saying that you've only played a stone armor brute up to 50. Maybe I'm wrong, but thats apples and oranges.Originally Posted by Kruunch
Yup ... in fact I've deleted 2 Granite Tankers. With the exception of Dark, I've played all of the primaries to L50 (still trying to work up motivation to roll a Dark Tanker :/).
And I wasn't commenting on how good/bad the set was, just the type of people who seem to end up taking that set lately.
As I've said earlier, if we judged by what experience level of people select which sets Inv/SS would be the worst set in the game by a landslide.