Was about to call foul but then put 2 and 2 together with the protector bots bubble. I'm so ingrained on getting defense cap without the pets I forget.
I think the 2 defense IOs in protector bots will give you 12%. So here is the thought process.
1. You either lower your defense to cap out with the bubble thus giving you more IOs to slot in other places.
2. Your looking to get a high as you can to the iTrial 59% defense cap. so your at 52% range area.
If your intent is number 2 ( no pun intended ), then why not go to 45% without the protector bots and then get the 7% from the bots, thus giving you the 52% you already have. The win part is your defense capped without the pets. As much as I want my pets to be always alive stuff happens, especially in the incarnate DA zone. There are times I'm running off with not pets because I bit off more then I can chew and the mobs keep wiping out my bots as I summon them. So in that instance I would rather be 45% then 40% against incarnate mobs.
No Trip mine ? Your not going to be able to hold aggro on Provoke alone. You need something to help you build up aggro. Trip mine is a nice aggro builder. Plus at defense cap it is the one thing you can do that Device cannot and that is drop a Trip mine almost at will. Granted there are things that will screw you up. But over all you can almost drop a Trip mine every time its up.
Super Jump.. Not crazy about it sorry. My only reason why is I have done enough TF missions that players speed through. So there are times I don't need to summon pets until we get to where we are running to. Super jump is limited. You can place a stealth IO in super speed and turn that on. Super speed has a stealth component that stacks with Stealth IO. Unless your up against a Rikti drone you could super speed around a mission and not be noticed. With Rikti mobs I eat a purple or 2 because FFG will not keep up with me and I am looking to run to the end as needed or what not. But other wise it allows you to stealth around when needed. Again on those Task forces.
I know your thinking but Plainguy you can't super speed in caves its ridiculously a pain in the backside to get around. What people don't know or forget is that you can have super speed on with a stealth IO running and use a jetpack to get around in a cave. Even though you are moving slow, you will be in stealth mode to everyone but those dam Rikti drones.
Another good thing about the Stealth thing is you can toe bomb mobs. So you could run into a group of mobs and drop a trip mine and not be spotted.
Now you might not want Stealth IO in Super speed. You can put it in sprint and put that winter gift IO for the recharge debuff protection in super speed. So you will need to have super speed and sprint on at the same time to benefit from the stealth I mentioned above. So sprint alone with Stealth IO WILL GET YOU SPOTTED..
Poison Trap.. Lockdown Proc.. nuff said. That one power and that one IO will allow you to lock down 8 mobs easily. Just when you thought Poison Trap has expired, you will see a mob run back at you and all of a sudden get held by lockdown proc.
Here is my build and my simple point is your goal should be to beat it.
Granted defense cap wise its your choice. But simply you should compare powers side by side and look.
As an example you went with Posi blast in electric fence. I'm assuming you went for the recharge bonus in Posi blast. If so then you should have been thinking recharge across other power sets as well. If you went for the DPS then you would be better off going for the hold, just because the dps is not great.
Traps is very recharge friendly. You should be trying to get recharge when you can in the build.
As with Traps many of these primaries and secondaries have some IO set build attached to them. Meaning as I might have mentioned in another thread. Everyone is building similar builds minus a few power changes. So for example, your looking for a defense cap stalker, then you would go ninjitsu or energy aura. There might be others, but I know with those 2 sets I can obtain defense cap. So I know they have Energy aura in scrappers, so I have a Titan Weapon EA scrapper that is defense capped as well. All I am doing is just about mimicking my stalker IO build for EA but then with Titan Weapon I am slotting stuff that will bring up my defenses a bit more. Or I might swap out a set in EA for another set to help get my defenses up.
Trust me any time I see a good build or IO set combo, I take it for my own. I look to see how I can incorporate it into my builds to make it better. I have no issue copying someones build or part of it to make mine better.
At the end of the day regardless of what AT your pick you will really start to see that you will be just limited in what you can do if your looking obtain some goal like defense cap. The only people who can pick any power are those that have no clue about defense cap or are roleplayers and are more looking to stick to a theme then anything else.
Heck I don't knock them. Every team needs a super speed, super jump player that can get to the end of the a mission and teleport team to fight the boss. It just won't ever be me.
I'm all about defense cap and if I can some resistance. But for example with Traps it's defense cap and recharge and resistance if I can get it. I have no issue dieing to defense cascade failure. It is so far and few between that the soloing 4/8 out weight's the failure.
Code:
P.S. Slotting stealth IO in sprint was something I took from someone else.
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1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Stroking my ego is a sure fire winning technique to get me to give the build a look over. Well played.
I think there are things in the post above that I disagree with but frankly I'm not sure I properly understood all the points, so I'll just focus on the OP.
Your goals:
* Solo AVs/GMs
* Missions at 0/(5-8)
The second part is done with your build as-is. You should be good to go for the first objective too but some fine tuning could speed the fights up.
5 Doctored Wounds in Triage will get you basically the same enhancement values and provide 5% recharge. An expensive upgrade is Panacea, including the proc which is very cool in Triage.
If you don't like Trip Mine, so be it. It does overperform for MMs, giving the same kaboom as a blaster or corr and significantly more than a def. Maybe it's just the defender TM underperforms. Regardless, having it increases kill speed and not insignificantly.
If you took Electrifying Fences for the -kb, you may want to consider the Overwhelming Force proc in Assault Bot. While prot bots have some single target kb, it pales in comparison to the pile of bodies assault bot can send flying. This proc could free you to take another pool if you prefer.
Ordinarily I'd say Hasten is a must for good trapping. However with your GM soloing goal, you're fairly well locked into needing the other pools, though leaping isn't "required" for the task. Personally I took Hasten instead of Provoke. Unfortunately that seems to keep me out of the GM soloing club (but not AVs) since they just run run run around the open zone and a taunt seems to tether them.
With 58% s/l def, I'd look to excange a chunk of that def for recharge. For example, Cloud Senses in Seeker Drones over Siphon Insight and Perfect Zinger in lieu of Mocking Beratement.
For GM purposes, I'd suggest Challenge over Provoke due to faster recharge.
OP I like your analogy about customizing the wheel more than the saying "don't invent the wheel". My cliche for this stuff (not just traps, but any build) is that "there's more than one way to skin a cat". My own bot/traps looks little like most builds posted for the combo, certainly not like the one presented as the model build for you to try and beat. Yet at the end of the day it's doing everything people are looking for at the high end, with the previously mentioned exception of GMs, and I'm fine with that.
To summarize, my main point would be to seek more recharge, freely exchanging some of your s/l def bonuses. My secondary point is, try to learn to love Trip Mine.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
OP I like your analogy about customizing the wheel more than the saying "don't invent the wheel". My cliche for this stuff (not just traps, but any build) is that "there's more than one way to skin a cat". My own bot/traps looks little like most builds posted for the combo, certainly not like the one presented as the model build for you to try and beat. Yet at the end of the day it's doing everything people are looking for at the high end, with the previously mentioned exception of GMs, and I'm fine with that.
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Originally Posted by Plainguy
As with Traps many of these primaries and secondaries have some IO set build attached to them. Meaning as I might have mentioned in another thread. Everyone is building similar builds minus a few power changes. So for example, your looking for a defense cap stalker, then you would go ninjitsu or energy aura. There might be others, but I know with those 2 sets I can obtain defense cap. So I know they have Energy aura in scrappers, so I have a Titan Weapon EA scrapper that is defense capped as well. All I am doing is just about mimicking my stalker IO build for EA but then with Titan Weapon I am slotting stuff that will bring up my defenses a bit more. Or I might swap out a set in EA for another set to help get my defenses up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by plainguy
Was about to call foul but then put 2 and 2 together with the protector bots bubble. I'm so ingrained on getting defense cap without the pets I forget.
I think the 2 defense IOs in protector bots will give you 12%. So here is the thought process. 1. You either lower your defense to cap out with the bubble thus giving you more IOs to slot in other places. 2. Your looking to get a high as you can to the iTrial 59% defense cap. so your at 52% range area. |
My 2nd quote pretty much states that as well for overall all the builds in this game. At the end of the day 20 or 30 percent more or less regen is not going to matter. Neither is 50 or more less hit points.
But I'm pretty sure if you post YOUR build, which I would imagine the OP would like to see for further reference and would probably very helpful in explaining what your talking about when you say "My own bot/traps looks little like most builds posted for the combo" . We will all notice that there is really not of much a difference with the overall performance values between them.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
Thanks for the tips! Let me reply first with redefining my goals, GM/AV slaying ok I will confess this is not neccsary for me yeah it's a neat trick this type of build can accomplish and yeah some times i May just want to slap a GM around for the badge, but AVs... well to be honest I am content with there EB versions and if i am on a team well so much the better my debuffs make people smile. My Main goal and this is the important one ITrial survival! FFG, Bot bubbles, Bodyguard just will not help you when you are running like a mad woman from building to building while Malestrom is kicking you in the head and Civis are hurling Atomic cocktails at you! So I confess yes I over did it on the defense!
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Well Actually I took Mu for the resist shield, holds I discovered (using web envelope) are really helpful catching prisoners! the -kb is just cherry. Spamming it also helps hold aggro.|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
If you took Electrifying Fences for the -kb, you may want to consider the Overwhelming Force proc in Assault Bot. While prot bots have some single target kb, it pales in comparison to the pile of bodies assault bot can send flying. This proc could free you to take another pool if you prefer.
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Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
If you don't like Trip Mine, so be it. It does overperform for MMs, giving the same kaboom as a blaster or corr and significantly more than a def. Maybe it's just the defender TM underperforms. Regardless, having it increases kill speed and not insignificantly.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
Was about to call foul but then put 2 and 2 together with the protector bots bubble. I'm so ingrained on getting defense cap without the pets I forget.
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Originally Posted by plainguy
No Trip mine ? Your not going to be able to hold aggro on Provoke alone. You need something to help you build up aggro. Trip mine is a nice aggro builder. Plus at defense cap it is the one thing you can do that Device cannot and that is drop a Trip mine almost at will. Granted there are things that will screw you up. But over all you can almost drop a Trip mine every time its up.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by plainguy
At the end of the day regardless of what AT your pick you will really start to see that you will be just limited in what you can do if your looking obtain some goal like defense cap. The only people who can pick any power are those that have no clue about defense cap or are roleplayers and are more looking to stick to a theme then anything else.
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All the critiquing in the world is not a substitute for practical experience, Though nothing wrong with asking for direction now and again!
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Originally Posted by plainguy
But I'm pretty sure if you post YOUR build, which I would imagine the OP would like to see for further reference and would probably very helpful in explaining what your talking about when you say "My own bot/traps looks little like most builds posted for the combo" . We will all notice that there is really not of much a difference with the overall performance values between them.
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I forget sometimes that the Protector Bot gives a bubble. So when I looked at your build I seen it was not capped in any defenses. Once I remembered I relaxed.
If you look at my build, you will notice that I am defense capped without the protector bot bubble. My thought process on this is, if I'm dead my bots can't do anything for me. I need to use the bots as added damage and nothing more.
Did you know for Years I didn't know that commanding my pets to attack would bring me out of bodyguard mode.. I use the numpad method and it seems its a bug that the bots appear to stay in defensive mode because the icon would show them in defense mode wise when I send them in to attack. So even being defense capped I never took advantage of bodyguard mode. I didn't know this until someone posted something related and I commented about it as well. Dechs posted the insight for me.
End result I have to say I felt sort of kick *** I was fighting 4/8 and AVs without bodyguard mode. Of course its much easier now that I know how I was screwing up.
But my point is Your defenses and mine are the same just that you use protector bot bubbles to get capped at 45% and beyond to 52%. Where I am at 45% without the Protector bot bubble and when I get the bubble I go to 52%. But as you can see the difference is if your protector bot dies or your bubble drops and the pet is slow to rebubble you, you are now not only below 52% but also below 45%. To me I think this hurts you regardless of Incarnate or not. You could be doing regular content and be screwed over by that dam protector bot bubble expiring and that protector bot deciding it is busy doing something else. Like maybe bubbling your FFG instead.
IF and I mean a big IF you could control the protector bot as who it will bubble first or command it to bubble you before using its heal for example then I would be okay with it. But as it stands now these retarded bots bubble my FFG before they bubble me. You think I would be smart enough to program my bots defense subroutines correctly to keep me alive above everything else, including themselves.
After doing 4/8 setting solo, I no longer create builds to work up to 4/8. I make builds that start at 4/8 and see what is the minimum I can do. I always strive for 4/8. Its for many reason personally. To me I feel if I can solo 4/8 then everyone else is extra. So I am not sweating if 3 players quit a TF sometimes, because I know if I can solo 4/8 and there is probably another player in the group now a days that can solo 4/8 we will be okay. Which has happen on a ITF.
End result this game does not benefit the concept player. You can play concept but unless your concept just happens to fit perfectly with the build your a bit screwed on what you might want to do.
But again this game is not built around 4/8.. It is set up to for a player to run 0/0 setting with SOs. But your not gonna do 4/8 or fight an AV if you mix too much concept into the build. It just starts to become mathematically impossible.
Before I built for Defense cap I was a concept player. When IOs came out I frankenslotted and did nothing with Defenses. It wasn't until I started noticing other players doing amazing things with some of the same toons I had that I wanted to do that stuff too.
Today I build my concept around the build I create in Mids. I have a Demon Pain that can safely solo 2/8 and sometimes I can push it to 4/8. But it is much tougher on my Demon Pain even at a personal regen of over 700% to run on a 4/8 setting then it is my Robot Traps. But I knew that from the start because I seen the numbers in Mids before I created him. Same goes for my Petless DS Traps Mastermind. Actually I created her, didn't like the concept so I server swapped to get the name change and changed the gender to a male as well.
But it also does not mean if something comes along that will help me improve the build I won't take it. End result I want the 4/8.
If you want to survive decently in Incarnate stuff then you want beyond 4/8 setting. So there is even less leeway.
Which brings me to your TPN issues or problems. Below is what can be causing you some issues.
1. Your probably asked to have your pets on passive so as not to attack the civilians. Thus no bodyguard mode.
2. The mobs see you because you have no sort of stealth. ( hehe sorry couldnt resist)
3. Your not even defense capped against regular content let alone Incarnate stuff because of the following 3 issues.
A. Your FFG is lagging but your Protector bot bubble is active so your Defense are in the mid 30s.I'm not saying its a cake walk for me as well, but right before being TP'ed out I turn on super speed and put pets on passive. I suffer from similar issues but I can resummon my FFG at the door while I wait with everyone else. Otherwise they don't see me for the most part. That is my work around. Sorry but that super speed combo is just very good atm. If I do get hit or targeted sometimes I will jetpack up to increase my distance for them to loose perception and target another team mate.
B. Your Protector Bot Bubble is off and you have only your FFG so your Defense are at 40%.
D. Or your suffering from both A and B, so your Defenses are in the 20s.
1. Why Soft Cap is Important : http://dechskaison.blogspot.com/2011...important.html
2. Limits: http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Limits
3. Attack Mechanics: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Attack_Mechanics
4. Rule of Five: http://wiki.cohtitan.com/wiki/Rule_o...e_Law_of_Fives
I used to play a mercs/traps (note used to) and I found ss with stealth very handy for taking the fight to the foes but I was relying on my pets keeping the aggro off me in that situation (pets were staying ranged back then). Basically you need to decide whether you want to keep aggro off your pets and let them do the work (and try to stay with the FFG) or vice versa.
My Former main was Bots/Pain and while I adored her I feel some of you might understand why I say now former. So after long consideration (about 15 minutes) I chose to re-roll her to Bots/Traps. Runners up were /dark and /ff by the way.
So I began the process of playing her and researching the AT, Tons of good advice out there! Thank you Dechs, Plainguy, Deacon, Arbegla and Reppu whose Posts and... passionate debates I found Insightful and helpful.
To paraphrase Plainguy, "Traps is traps is traps Don't try to invent the wheel." Problem is while the wheel is sound everyone puts it on the car differently! For me I chose the personal defense route. I feel I have created a strong build, but would appreciate some extra eyes. I am not tryign to invent the wheel I am jts making sure I have not put it on a yugo.. a Mustang is ok.. or a Barracuda because those are sexy!
Goals: AV/GM Soloing, Missions run at 0/x5 ( this I am pretty sure any and all MM/Traps can do easily) 0/x8 on occasion just to make my boyfriend go O.O.
ITrial Survival, I like badges to get those badges i have to run TPN, LAM, Keyes etc The fast paced movement in some of those is not minion friendly and my poor FFG will never keep up! EDIT: With no SS it is my hope to use Ninja Run+Sprint+Stealth proc+ Prayer
Some Notes: I had originally taken flight but as much as i love it It's rather cumbersome with traps, Wanted SS bu that was mainly for stealth Decided on Leaping for defense. Trip Mine.. I know this is blasphemy to some but This power annoyed me I wanted to like it so bad and while i KNOW it is good.. I am not sure it suits my play style Took Photon Grenade instead. I Tried for defense,+recharge +regen +HP and a smattering of + recovery. Lastly Posion traps is slotted for recharge, Don't need the hold i have Fences.
Questions: Tactics Is this needed? Fences slot for Immob or damage, Grenade slot for stun or damage? EDIT: Slotted for damage now my thinking is aggro is good!
So now lets end this wall of text and Post my Build.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.959
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Athena Six 001: Level 50 Technology Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Robotics
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Presence
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Battle Drones -- BldM'dt-Acc(A), BldM'dt-Dmg(3), BldM'dt-Dmg/EndRdx(3), BldM'dt-Acc/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), BldM'dt-Acc/Dmg(7)
Level 1: Web Grenade -- Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(A), Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(13), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(13), Enf'dOp-Acc/Immob/Rchg(15), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(36)
Level 2: Caltrops -- Posi-Dam%(A), Ragnrk-Knock%(7), RechRdx-I(9), ImpSwft-Dam%(11)
Level 4: Triage Beacon -- Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/Rchg(15), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(17), Mrcl-Heal/Rchg(17), Mrcl-EndRdx/Rchg(11)
Level 6: Equip Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(9)
Level 10: Acid Mortar -- AnWeak-Acc/Rchg/EndRdx(A), AnWeak-Acc/Rchg(27), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg(29), LdyGrey-DefDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(29), LdyGrey-Rchg/EndRdx(37)
Level 12: Protector Bots -- CotMastermind-Rchg/PetAoEDef(A), CotMastermind-Acc/Dmg(23), CotMastermind-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23), CotMastermind-Dmg/EndRdx(25), DefBuff-I(25), DefBuff-I(27)
Level 14: Super Jump -- Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(A), Zephyr-ResKB(19)
Level 16: Force Field Generator -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/Rchg(40), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(19)
Level 18: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(21), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(34), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 20: Tactics -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(42), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(46)
Level 22: Poison Trap -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(43)
Level 24: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Assault Bot -- S'bndAl-Build%(A), S'bndAl-Dmg/Rchg(31), S'bndAl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), EdctM'r-Acc/Dmg(31), EdctM'r-Dmg(33), EdctM'r-PetDef(33)
Level 28: Seeker Drones -- SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(33), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SipInsght-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(34), SipInsght-ToHitDeb(39)
Level 30: Provoke -- Mocking-Taunt/Rchg(A), Mocking-Taunt/Rchg/Rng(36), Mocking-Acc/Rchg(43), Mocking-Taunt(48)
Level 32: Upgrade Robot -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 35: Charged Armor -- GA-3defTpProc(A), RctvArm-ResDam(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(42), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), RctvArm-EndRdx(45)
Level 38: Photon Grenade -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(40), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Posi-Dam%(48)
Level 41: Electrifying Fences -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rng(45), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(46), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(46)
Level 44: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/EndRdx(48), S'fstPrt-ResKB(50)
Level 47: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 49: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(50), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 1: Supremacy
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Numna-Heal(37), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(21)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(37)
Level 0: Freedom Phalanx Reserve
Level 0: Task Force Commander
Level 0: The Atlas Medallion
Level 0: Portal Jockey
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Set Bonus Totals: