I24 Snipe Alteration Suggestion

The question is did they make them fun enough. The answer for me is not fun enough that it vies for space in my build. Range 80 tier 3 > part time insta-snipe.

I never said they succeeded in making them fun.

Would be hard for me or anyone to say that with a straight face since it's NOT ON BETA YET.

I simply said the GOAL was to make snipes fun. Nothing more. Nothing less. Whether they succeed is not something we can judge yet.

In addition even if snipes are more fun NONE of my toons that don't have them are respecing into them. As you state Range 80 tier 3 > part time insta-snipe.

Look, Aura, I'm really not interested in making an emotional argument about whether or not we can trust the developers to be truthful. To say that the devs are lying is a personal attack, and one I'd never make.

It is, however, demonstrably and irrefutably true that what the developers say isn't always synonymous with what the developers do. Or perhaps more accurately, what the players assume from developer statements doesn't always turn out to reflect what the developers ultimately do. Plans change, and statements can be misinterpreted (or miscommunicated).

The snipe change buffs single-target damage. Full stop. You cannot argue that a major buff to a high-damage single-target attack isn't designed to be a buff to single-target damage. It's questionable whether the developers even could change snipes such that they're more fun without also buffing the relevant builds' single-target-damage capability. And that's part of the problem with the quirkiness of the new snipe mechanics; if players are to view fast snipe as a worthwhile reward for the inconvenience required to make use of it, then the buff to snipes must represent a non-trivial mechanical boost to performance, which means that future balance evaluations must take the snipe (quirky conditionals and all) into account.

I suppose the devs could add to snipes something wholly different from damage to make them more appealing -- perhaps an area-of-effect control to go along the same thematic lines as the fear that is (or used to be) attached to Assassin's Strike -- but it is undeniable that the currently proposed snipe buff boosts single-target damage.

Whether the snipe buff ultimately turns out to be the only single-target-damage buff to the relevant sets is an open question, and a different question. But please, can we lay to rest the absurd canard that the design of fast snipes is purely to increase "fun," and that therefore the obvious design implications of the change have absolutely no relevance?

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

You are, of course, entitled to build and play your characters as you prefer. I wouldn't try to tell you you're wrong about something that's entirely subjective; hell, I won't be taking the snipe on at least one of my snipe-capable characters either.

But the tier 3 attack and the snipe aren't mutually exclusive options. We cannot, for the purpose of evaluating balance, pretend that the newly ranged-boosted tier 3s replace (or render moot) fast snipes, because many builds can and will make good use of both.

Another way to look at it is that the developers have effectively given snipe-capable builds (uneven) access to what is potentially a second, supplemental tier 3 attack power.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build

I'd argue that more folks will respec into the CRASHLESS nuke so that they can immedeatly do nuke>judgment>blaze (or other tier 3 attack power) rather than respec into a snipe that they may ALSO then need to respec into other to-hit powers for.

Which sounds easier to you?

Respec>nuke.

Respec>need to take leadership and/or other to-hit+snipe

just saying.

I think the snipe change has less of a greater effect than the nuke change.

But you already know how I feel about single target damage vs AOE.



Remember that not every build has room to make the snipe effective. Just taking a snipe by itself is as useless as it ever was if you don't have the to-hit to take advantage of its buffs.

I've seen just as many corrupters/defenders/controllers/scrappers/stalkers who don't take leadership as I've seen those that do. It's not UNIVERSALLY true that all of those ATs, nor specifically the support ATs take the leadership pool.

I think the snipe change is WHOLLY dependent on whether you are able to get the to-hit to take advantage of it. If you can't, there is no point to taking a snipe after I24, same as pre-I24.

I don't consider something that situational a REAL buff to single target damage. And not surprising it was NOT meant to be.

If it were the devs would be more concerned about applying more consistently across the board. They aren't because it's PRIMARY GOAL is NOT a buff to single target damage, which again is useless in a game that's been wholy focused on AOE damage for years.

It's not a canard when the devs outright state what the GOAL of a change is.

Saying otherwise is basically stating that they are lying when they TELL US exactly what the point of the change is. I find that argument to be silly.

You and I are clearly going to have to agree to disagree.

The fact that we both value different types of damage differently is just that point at which we'll never agree on the importance of the snipe change.

To be clear I would argue the NUKE changes and sustain abilities have a greater effect than the snipe change.

/shrug

My Ice Blaster, for example is going to respec into Blizzard. I WILL drop something even though she has a tight build. I sure as hell am NOT taking the snipe.

From my point of view, you're assuming your own conclusion here. I'm objecting to the Snipe change because it buffs single-target damage significantly, but also unevenly. You're now saying, as a rebuttal, that the single-target damage buff must be irrelevant because it's applied unevenly. So basically you're agreeing with my take on the particulars of the snipe change, but you're here arguing tirelessly that the snipe change is not important enough to talk about, because if it were important enough to talk about, the problem wouldn't exist in the first place.

If the difference between perma-fast Snipe and no fast snipe is, say, 15% extra single-target damage, you really think that the developers will not take fast snipes into account when they're evaluating the balance of the various snipe-capable power sets?

Again, you cannot take the developers' words over the developers' actions. It's meaningless to say that he only intended to increase the "fun," when the "fun" directly relies, at least in part, upon the mechanics. Presumably, all balance changes are made with the ultimate goal of increasing fun. By the way, did Arbiter Hawk explicitly say that the Snipe change isn't intended to be a single-target-damage buff?

If Arbiter Hawk boosted Blaster damage by some extreme amount, let's say 200% across the board, and his only commentary on the matter were that he planned to make Blasters more "fun," then would you be here insisting that the damage increase is irrelevant because it's not what he said he intended to do?

Yes, we are, because obviously anyone who insists that only AoE damage matters in a balance discussion isn't interested in having a balance discussion. Single-target damage may not upset the rewards/time apple cart, but there are more builds in the game that aren't AoE specialists than there are builds that are AoE specialists.

AoE is, in fact, too powerful across the board for too little downside, but that ship sailed years ago. Regardless, the development history of the game shows that single-target damage matters.

Ice Blast doesn't have access to a snipe.

Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze Nice build