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Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
So, i Keep hearing how great Plant/Fire is.. but.. well.. I'm not seeing it.
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O.o
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My City Was Gone
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Oh i'm sorry perhaps this was not the place to ask questions...|
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
O.o
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*points nether to her Join Date
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I may be in the minority but I would agree with you on plant/psi. I have an incarnate plant/psi dom and he's easily my favorite toon. I've tried plant/fire and he stalled (temporrarily i'm sure) at lvl 23. It was a playstyle issue forr me. I wasn't in love with the /fire powers. Just didn't gel for me.|
Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
First I tend to look at ATs how they perform pre level 32 Pretty much anything incarnated with APP/PPP powers and level shifted to + 3 is going to do good :P
So, i Keep hearing how great Plant/Fire is.. but.. well.. I'm not seeing it. I see Embrace of fire, and yes i could see how this is good. Increasing the damage of your holds etc..and i can see that if you take the fire APP that RoF/fireball combined with Seeds/roots would be hellish Is this the only reason this is a great combo? I am not trying to be nasty I like Doms A LOT I am in fact curious on what makes this such a potent combo. I would tend to lean towards Plant/psi or energy.. |
so maybe it's the same for you. The playstyle is not right for you. Doesn't mean that plant/fire is not beastly...i'm sure it is.
PS, the awesomeness of Drain Psyche may have something to do with it. :-)
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Sorry about that totally un-useful reply, the debbil made me do it. =P|
Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
Oh i'm sorry perhaps this was not the place to ask questions...
*points nether to her Join Date |
Anyway, in a (likely futile) effort to be more helpful and less internet-y:
it's good because plant is generally terrific and blossoms super early w/ Seeds of Confusion & fire does buckets of damage. My plant/fire, MANT (half man, half ant, all criminal!) is my "best" dominator (at level 37) by performance measures. He can waltz through content that would be rough going for most of my other villains.
I'm sure someone else will give you specific reasons why the synergy is so good, but for me it boils down to confuse everything in sight then rain down massive AoE retribution on their heads.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
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Thanks |
Originally Posted by Nethergoat
Sorry about that totally un-useful reply, the debbil made me do it. =P
Anyway, in a (likely futile) effort to be more helpful and less internet-y |
So then it is as i thought.. the true power of it is: Seeds>Roots>Embrace>RoF>Fireball>Profit
You see mostly i was seeing ST attacks one cone and a PBAoE Like i said i tend to look at the usefulness of a AT pre APP/PPP powers. So yeah at 37 i can certainly see it as being a monster! What about it's Pre 35 performance?
Although I don't have this particular combination, I can tell you that it boils down to:
Plant is regarded one of the premier control sets in terms of the amount of control it can dish out as well as fairly respectable damage (as far as control sets go). Seeds of Confusion all on its own is a phenomenal (sp?) control that can pretty much turn most mobs into a group of worry-free bags of xp just waiting for the reaping. Good range, large cone, fast recharge, and long base duration. The only 2 downsides are Confuse resistant mobs, and aggro generation, which is something that i tend to warn people about. Usually the latter part of that doesn't crop up much...but when it does...it can be...painful.
Carrion Creepers adds some additional control in the form of immobilize, slow, and the occasional knockdown. It also add some damage as the creeper vines themselves will toss out attacks here and there. AND they can generate their own aggro and help keep some of that off of you. AND it has a fairly long duration and can propogate itself in the next mob or 2.
The pet is pretty standard fair. Decent damage (some of it AoE) and helps a little with control with its own immoby power.
Plant also has the standard ST and AoE Immobies and holds, all ranged, which is a plus, a ranged AoE sleep, though I'd wager that most that pick this up might use it for adds, and a static, placed +regen power. Personally I've never bothered with the sleep or spirit tree.
Then there's Fire...a set I don't really have too much experience with (unlike plant). Hands down one of the (if not flat out THE) highest damage secondaries you can get as a dommy. /Fiery Assault was almost like the devs went and said "Hmm...ok. Let's take a bunch of stuff that made some of the other fire powersets good and slam them all together into one set and call it gravy.", and for the most part they succeeded...with a few questionable choices (i'm looking at you, combustion. FSC, anyone?). On top of the already high damage ability...it's got Embrace of Fire...which bumps up fire damage even MORE for something like 30 seconds. AND it works with the Fire APP. Sadly it still works off of the old "Fiery Embrace" mechanic and not off of the new version (adds something like an additional 45% fire damage to all attacks). AND it comes with it's own end restoring power in Consume. Sure...it's not Energy Drain or Power Sink, and isn't up NEARLY as often...but in a perma-dom build...it would be nothing to alternate between Consume and popping Domination again to keep yourself going virtually forever. And that's assuming you'd actually NEED consume.
In summary...when you combine one of the best control primary sets with one of the best damage secondaries...you end up with a bunch of burning sacks of meat that are pratically worry free under the right circumstances (and with Plant...that's more often than not).
However...again..this is coming from someone that's never actually run that combo...though i can see the potential. I, like a poster up thread, just didn't click with /fire...not for my lack of trying. ....Then again...maybe it was. Only ever did get that fire/fire dommy up to like level 6 or 7. ....Course...that was back in the old days when popping Domination gave you boosted damage and the rest of the time it was kinda crappy. May have to give it another go.
RaikenX is currently seeking new quotes to add to his signature.
Someone say something funny.
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Originally Posted by Smiling_Joe
::looks at RaikenX's signature::
Something funny. |
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Yeah.. I have to admit fire on my plants makes me sad|
Originally Posted by Asha'man
I wasn't in love with the /fire powers. Just didn't gel for me.
so maybe it's the same for you. |
if i could color the APP Fire powers Pink then.. yeah I would pretend they were psychic bursts or something!
Yeah pretty much what Raiken said. It's a good combo because plant has a lot of decent/good controls and some of its own damage component, while fire is just pure damage.
I have a lvl 38 plant/fire dom and he really doesn't have a lot of trouble with anything short of very hard targets, which is pretty much solo Elite Bosses. Especially anything with a lot of regen (looking at YOU longbow EB in Who Will Die 4 D:<) becomes a nasty wall you'll want to pull out some extra cheese for like shivans.
But in general, most normal missions just aren't a big problem. I can double tap my ST and AoE holds/immobs to keep anything the confuse doesn't work on and then rain down destruction. Or just fire off domination and wreak hell.
And teaming is just icing. Seeds of confusion is just made for a high number of targets. One of my fav moments with my plant/fire was running mortimer kal and opening the security doors to find the huge spawn of security bots. BAM. Seeds. Whole mob confused. Was beautiful.
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AH-HA! Yeah a lot of big orange numbers are cool! This and Nether's reply ( the second one *pokes nether|
Originally Posted by RaikenX;4286342"
Then there's Fire...a set I don't really have too much experience with (unlike plant). Hands down one of the (if not flat out THE) highest damage secondaries you can get as a dommy. /Fiery Assault was almost like the devs went and said "Hmm...ok. Let's take a bunch of stuff that made some of the other fire powersets good and slam them all together into one set and call it gravy."
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) Explain a lot.. Still not sure if i can come up with a concept to give it a try though!
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MANT is an older character who spent most of his playtime in the period between the two big Dominator buffs- after they changed the Domination timer to make it more than 'once per session for tough boss fights' tool but before the big I15 changes. |
Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
Thanks
So then it is as i thought.. the true power of it is: Seeds>Roots>Embrace>RoF>Fireball>Profit You see mostly i was seeing ST attacks one cone and a PBAoE Like i said i tend to look at the usefulness of a AT pre APP/PPP powers. So yeah at 37 i can certainly see it as being a monster! What about it's Pre 35 performance? |
I liked him fine back then- as noted, Plant is an early bloomer and in his pre-I15 incarnation I concentrated on his blasts getting domination up fast and not messing with the melee attacks much.
I don't see him playing much worse now, although I'd certainly make more use of the melee stuff.
But if the combo doesn't suit you conceptually, just go with something else- plant is just great all around and would still be terrific whatever you paired it with.
The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Plants has three things really going for it. First Seeds of Confusion, compared to the AoE stuns in most Control sets (which this effectively replaces) Seeds is available sooner, recharges faster, lasts longer and increases your damage. Secondly Roots, this does twice the damage of the AoE immobilize in other control sets; it's not a great AoE damage power but it's not bad, especially since Seeds allows you to avoid most of the aggro it would normally generate. Finally Carrion Creepers, this come later than the other two but also adds quite a bit of damage. So overall Plants has very good damage for a control set and gets some very nice control early on.
As for Fire it has damage, damage, damage. Fire attacks deal more damage than other attacks anyway and then Embrace of Fire enhances that further; compared to Build Up it has a higher damage bonus and three times the duration but only twice the recharge. Fiery Assault does have some drawbacks, Ignite and Combustion are a bit meh (not bad but not great either) and Blazing Bolt is a snipe but you can do pretty well just using Fire Breath, the three single target attacks and Embrace of Fire.
Just as a general comment and observation. A lot of the time around here when people say a set/combo is awesome they frequently mean it's awesome at level 50 with at least some IO investment. In this case Plant/Fire is pretty awesome at any level but it's especially awesome at level 50 
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quick note: Blazing Bolt will become a nice single target attack when the snipe changes hit in I24.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
......Blazing Bolt is a snipe but you can do pretty well just using Fire Breath, the three single target attacks and Embrace of Fire.
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The Nethergoat Archive: all my memories, all my characters, all my thoughts on CoH...eventually.
My City Was Gone
Yeah I been in love with plant ever since i saw a Plant Dom seed a x8 spawn of Knives of Artemis and they fell over each other and their own caltrops! Oh i laughed! Man i hate those women!
Plant/Storm seems cool but doing pew pew is more my style! Not to mention * looks around shifty eyed* Who doesn't want to be like Poison Ivy! ok maybe some of you guys don't.. or maybe you do.. I don't judge!
My concept is pretty simple. He's a villain from an alternate dimension, a mage of noble birth whose family ruled with an iron first. Til there was a revolt and they were ousted >> So he took what secrets he knew and fled across dimensions, winding up in the Rogue Isles where he uses his control of nature and the (destructive) elements to work his way back up the social ladder.
Then again, any concept fits pretty well when you slip in "He's a magic guy"
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I noticed :P|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Just as a general comment and observation. A lot of the time around here when people say a set/combo is awesome they frequently mean it's awesome at level 50 with at least some IO investment. In this case Plant/Fire is pretty awesome at any level but it's especially awesome at level 50
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At 50+3 IOed and lore pets i could make a Empathy/DP defender with only it's tier 1 attack and the medicine pool great! OK Maybe not..
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Originally Posted by Agent White
Then again, any concept fits pretty well when you slip in "He's a magic guy"
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It depends on how the snipe changes work out. Currently if a Plant/Fire Dominator wants FastSnipe they have to use either Psionic Mastery for Mind Link or Soul Mastery for Soul Drain to hit the required To Hit bonus (with tactics and a Kismet). Neither are inherently bad but it does lock them out of other potentially useful Epic pools. In any case at the moment I still consider Snipes somewhat situational for Dominators but YMMV.
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Originally Posted by Nethergoat
quick note: Blazing Bolt will become a nice single target attack when the snipe changes hit in I24.
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Plant/Fire has always been one of the best combos. Even before dominators were adjusted in power level a few years ago.
With plant you've got access to immobilizes, slows, holds, and an AOE mass confuse. Not too mention a second "Stealth Pet" in Carrion Creepers.. that's actually quite capable of taking some of the aggro of of you.
Fire has no secondary effects, just damage..damage and more damage. And if I remember correctly Fiery Embrace just about doubles a Dominator's damage output.
So Plant/Fire is your basic "Root and Shoot" build.
As far as concept..
My old Plant/Fire was a biological mutation who could emit a highly corrosive acid. And that was before power customization. So you could possibly color fire yellow or green.. and to go with that theme.
Good Luck.... and have fun. Plant/Fire is a great combo!
My level 50 Dominators:
Madame Mindbender 50 Mind/Energy
Fly Agaric 50 Plant/Thorn
Nate Nitro 50 Fire/Psi
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My Plant/Fire/Fire is a Fey of the Unseelie court. She delights in growing forests simply for the fun of burning them and her enemies down.|
Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
I noticed :P
At 50+3 IOed and lore pets i could make a Empathy/DP defender with only it's tier 1 attack and the medicine pool great! OK Maybe not.. In all likely hood what ever she is she will be Praetorian ( yeah I'm a masochist) Initially i was thinking Science origin, I suppose i could do some kind of carnival of light/war styled concept.. Magic makes every thing work better! |
(Also if you color it right spirit tree looks like a burning bush)
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
Any advice for a stalled out Plant/Electric Dom? I'm trying to push her to 22, but I just can't seem to get into the chick. She's 19 iirc right now. Any suggested power picks or skips from the two sets early on? I want to love her because I really like her concept, but I'm failing hard.
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It's going to be kind of ugly until you hit level 29 and have 4 slotted static Discharge.|
Originally Posted by Sir Hextor
Any advice for a stalled out Plant/Electric Dom? I'm trying to push her to 22, but I just can't seem to get into the chick. She's 19 iirc right now. Any suggested power picks or skips from the two sets early on? I want to love her because I really like her concept, but I'm failing hard.
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I'd recommend 6 slotting Seeds (or 5 slots with frankenslotted IO sets), 4 slots in Strangler, at least 2 slots in Roots and then even distribution in Charged Bolts, Charged Brawl, Lightening Bolt, and Havoc Punch. Stealth would also be helpful to get in decent position for Seeds.
Play on -1 or 0 / x4 or x5. Open with Seeds, pause for a few seconds to let the spawn self herd (this also frees the non-confused mobs from the herd) throw in Roots to lock them all in melee range with each other and to damage them all so that you get maximum exp and drops. Deal with any loose non-confused mobs first then finish off what ever remains of the confused ball of mobs.
By the time you get that done Seeds should be recharged again even without Hasten.
-Insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. - Albert Einstein.
-I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. - Galileo Galilei
-When injustice becomes law, resistance becomes duty. - Thomas Jefferson
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You might have to wait until someone non biased comes along...I can' stand /Elec after they made the changes.
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Originally Posted by Sir Hextor
Any advice for a stalled out Plant/Electric Dom? I'm trying to push her to 22, but I just can't seem to get into the chick. She's 19 iirc right now. Any suggested power picks or skips from the two sets early on? I want to love her because I really like her concept, but I'm failing hard.
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Thanks MK. Looks like it's time to switch to build 2.
Yeah Todd. I'm not a fan of the set either, but it was very much a concept concession. I guess I'll use it as an excuse to skip playing Electrical Blast too 
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Pretty much your attack chain from 40-50 nonstop.|
Originally Posted by Alpha-Six
Thanks
So then it is as i thought.. the true power of it is: Seeds>Roots>Embrace>RoF>Fireball>Profit |
Pre-40, Plant/Fire likely pales a bit compared to many other sets. But in the late game, confuse 'em, hold 'em and burn 'em. You become a walking forest fire. Which, by the way, has spawned many "Evil Smoky the Bear" tribute toons over the years.
I'm not 100% certain but I believe this is my live build. Up for suggestions on how to tweak it to make it even better.
Haven't really thought yet about where the new 2nd ATO set could/should go.
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First I tend to look at ATs how they perform pre level 32 Pretty much anything incarnated with APP/PPP powers and level shifted to + 3 is going to do good :P
So, i Keep hearing how great Plant/Fire is.. but.. well.. I'm not seeing it. I see Embrace of fire, and yes i could see how this is good. Increasing the damage of your holds etc..and i can see that if you take the fire APP that RoF/fireball combined with Seeds/roots would be hellish Is this the only reason this is a great combo?
I am not trying to be nasty I like Doms A LOT I am in fact curious on what makes this such a potent combo. I would tend to lean towards Plant/psi or energy..