Is scrapper WP regen debuff resistance bugged?
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That's not how debuff resistance works. 25.95% regen debuff resistance means regen debuffs will be reduced in effectiveness by 25.95%, so that -1000% will become -740.5% (assuming the Heavy is your level), which for most /WP builds will still floor your regen if the Heavy is the only enemy in melee range.|
Originally Posted by Alexis_NA
I ask because it seems like every time I get hit with any kind of regen debuff my regen goes to 0%.
If I understand regen debuff resistance of which I have 25.95% from Fast Healing, this should never be possible. |
Most regen debuffs are very large: -500% and -1000% aren't uncommon, so resisting about a quarter of the debuff means you're still debuffed quite a bit.
That said, I have no direct testing of whether the resistance is working or not, but just from what you're saying I see no reason to suspect a bug.
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So essentially, a regen debuff resist of less than say, 500% is utterly useless is what you're saying? |
Originally Posted by Hopeling
That's not how debuff resistance works. 25.95% regen debuff resistance means regen debuffs will be reduced in effectiveness by 25.95%, so that -1000% will become -740.5% (assuming the Heavy is your level), which for most /WP builds will still floor your regen if the Heavy is the only enemy in melee range.
Most regen debuffs are very large: -500% and -1000% aren't uncommon, so resisting about a quarter of the debuff means you're still debuffed quite a bit. That said, I have no direct testing of whether the resistance is working or not, but just from what you're saying I see no reason to suspect a bug. |
That seems... odd.
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Heartbroken
I lurked a lot but I'll miss you allAlpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg
It's not useless, but in that particular case of over 1000% debuff, no, it doesn't do much.
I'm more than a little surprised that it's not enhanceable, but it's definitely not.
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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No. Even 100% resistance would be total immunity to debuffs. /WP's regen debuff resistance isn't incredible, but it's also not useless.
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Originally Posted by Alexis_NA
So essentially, a regen debuff resist of less than say, 500% is utterly useless is what you're saying?
That seems... odd. |
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It's pretty useless when there are minions (Longbow spec ops) which can utterly shut down your regen for an entire fight.|
Originally Posted by Hopeling
No. Even 100% resistance would be total immunity to debuffs. /WP's regen debuff resistance isn't incredible, but it's also not useless.
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I get that the devs are trying to make the regen set have to use tactics, but to punish other sets having regen mitigation with the huge debuff numbers is a bit wonky.
Everything which hits you with a regen debuff shouldn't drop you to 0.
Heck, the only -regen debuff I've run across which doesn't drop fully saturated RTTC to 0 is a single shot from a praetorian clockwork. But the second shot will.
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Heartbroken
I lurked a lot but I'll miss you allAlpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg
I think you still aren't understanding how debuff resistance works. The resistance is not subtracted from the debuff, the debuff is reduced by whatever percentage the resistance is.
So a 25% resistance blocks a quarter of the debuff, 50% blocks half of it, and 100% means that the debuff will never affect you at all. Most debuff resistances cap at 95% though, I think that only speed debuffs (both movement and recharge) can actually reach 100%.
Yes, the regen debuffs in the game are pretty insane, and it's likely that, even resisted, most will floor your regen. However, a Willpower character should not be relying on regen alone. You have good resists, +HP, and defense (and even a heal if you're a stalker!). All of your protection should be slotted and used together; doing so will make you a nigh-unstoppable beast.
@Roderick
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Yes. I get how regen debuff resistance works. |
Originally Posted by Roderick
I think you still aren't understanding how debuff resistance works. The resistance is not subtracted from the debuff, the debuff is reduced by whatever percentage the resistance is.
So a 25% resistance blocks a quarter of the debuff, 50% blocks half of it, and 100% means that the debuff will never affect you at all. Most debuff resistances cap at 95% though, I think that only speed debuffs (both movement and recharge) can actually reach 100%. Yes, the regen debuffs in the game are pretty insane, and it's likely that, even resisted, most will floor your regen. However, a Willpower character should not be relying on regen alone. You have good resists, +HP, and defense (and even a heal if you're a stalker!). All of your protection should be slotted and used together; doing so will make you a nigh-unstoppable beast. |
I think it's a bit silly to punish a whole category of mitigation for the sins of one set, though. I'm looking at you, regen. You were so uber back in the day the devs are still scared of you.
Willpower is great because of the layered mitigation. But when regen goes poof along with defense, which is not high enough to prevent def debuff cascade failure, ~40% res is not going to keep you up long.
Regen -is- the critical mitigation layer on Willpower. RTTC is the defining power of the set.
When your regen goes, that's when you go from ok to dead.
This is true even on my current scrapper who is IOed out and has 30% melee/S/L def, capped with one Defensive Sweep, however more situationally: when there's -def in addition to -regen.
My experience is that WP has a -regen resist number which fails to effectively mitigate the majority of -regen in the game. If I am incorrect in this feel free to rebut.
I believe the disparity in numbers is an error or oversight.
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Heartbroken
I lurked a lot but I'll miss you allAlpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg
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This does not match my experience with the set. |
Originally Posted by Alexis_NA
Regen -is- the critical mitigation layer on Willpower. RTTC is the defining power of the set.
When your regen goes, that's when you go from ok to dead. This is true even on my current scrapper who is IOed out and has 30% melee/S/L def, capped with one Defensive Sweep, however more situationally: when there's -def in addition to -regen. |
I cannot think of a single instance in which my regeneration saved me when my other layers of defense failed. Usually, when my other layers of mitigation aren't up to the task of keeping the incoming damage manageable by my regen, the damage starts coming in so fast that 1,000,000% regeneration would not save me.
Regeneration's new regen debuff resistance IS enhanceable up to 50% or so. That's because regen doesn't get defense, or significant amounts of resistance to stack with its regeneration. But even at 50% resistance, a 1000% regen debuff will still floor all but the most beastly builds. The bonus there is it will floor your passive regen, but popping Instant Healing will get you to where you start healing again.
Simply put, if Willpower's regen debuff resistance were enhanceable and could actually prevent regen debuffs, the set would become more overpowered than it is already.
I think it's highly likely that your regen debuff resistance has been helping you more than you even realize. There are a significant amount of smaller regen debuffs in the game as well, but with as much as Rise to the Challenge makes your regen rate fluctuate up and down you aren't going to notice the smaller ones that your debuff resistance is actually helping with.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Agreed on +regen not saving us when other mitigation has failed. In my experience, that's a very narrow set of circumstances that comes up exceedingly rarely.
If +regen gets shut off and but other mitigations still work, then that's a situation where you might have to run away that you otherwise might not on Willpower. (That's extremely rare on my Regens, but they are built for high recharge rather than as high a [passive] +regen as is possible, making them better able to survive regen debuffs. Willpower, though, has only one mitigation click that can't benefit from +recharge.)
Blue
American Steele: 50 BS/Inv
Nightfall: 50 DDD
Sable Slayer: 50 DM/Rgn
Fortune's Shadow: 50 Dark/Psi
WinterStrike: 47 Ice/Dev
Quantum Well: 43 Inv/EM
Twilit Destiny: 43 MA/DA
Red
Shadowslip: 50 DDC
Final Rest: 50 MA/Rgn
Abyssal Frost: 50 Ice/Dark
Golden Ember: 50 SM/FA
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My Main Claws/Regen is built for 3 things: Recharge, Defense (which will get even better once I get some ATIOs), and passive regen. |
Originally Posted by UberGuy
That's extremely rare on my Regens, but they are built for high recharge rather than as high a [passive] +regen as is possible, making them better able to survive regen debuffs. Willpower, though, has only one mitigation click that can't benefit from +recharge.
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I have perma DP capability, can soft-cap S/L with a single purple, and I have just over 700% passive regen with just Integration, Fast Healing, Health, and Physical Perfection.
End result: I can sit at scrapper HP cap and make most S/L attacks miss, and I rarely need to hit a click heal until my defense gets debuffed.
On the other side of things, my Willpower Brute has more resistance, and better defense (S/L and E/N are at 32.5% instead of just S/L) and my regen is at 600% or so with a single enemy in range of RttC.
The two characters are equally tough, just in different ways. The relative lack of debuff resistance in Willpower doesn't seem to affect that character's toughness in any noticeable way.
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Originally Posted by Dechs Kaison See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately. |
Is scrapper WP regen debuff resistance bugged?
I ask because it seems like every time I get hit with any kind of regen debuff my regen goes to 0%.
If I understand regen debuff resistance of which I have 25.95% from Fast Healing, this should never be possible.
To test, I went and played with a Rikti Heavy Assault Suit, which has a power that debuffs regen by 1000% (and fires every 4 seconds, wtf?)
Sure enough, one application by a +0 heavy assault suit floored my regen to 0% for 20 seconds.
So, it's not reducing the duration of the debuff, or the amount.
Bugged?
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Heartbroken
Alpha Team sg, Pinnacle server
Black Citadel vg