Any way to softcap w/out Weave on Fire/Time?
By
ChaosAngelGeno,
Posted on: 2011-12-25 19:14 in Corruptors
I believe Power Boost can be slotted with Membranes/Cytoskeletons/Enzymes to make it provide a larger defense boost. That should allow you softcap quite easily.
Quote:
Oh wow... I had no idea! That changes everything. Thank you!
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I believe Power Boost can be slotted with Membranes/Cytoskeletons/Enzymes to make it provide a larger defense boost. That should allow you softcap quite easily.
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Quote:
Thanks, I didn't know this.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I believe Power Boost can be slotted with Membranes/Cytoskeletons/Enzymes to make it provide a larger defense boost. That should allow you softcap quite easily.
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Quote:
Um, you can make a softcapped build that chooses an epic resistance shield easily- Much less a softcapped build without Weave. The fighting pool requires no wasted power choices- You can slot up boxing/kick with Kinetic combats as one of the most valuable set mules available to you. Tough is useful if for nothing else than providing slots for KB Protection with one slot and potentially 6% defense to all damage with another two... Either way, the fighting pool is an asset to softcapping while allowing you to take a resist shield for layered survivability (and adding in more resistance to stack with it.) I don't see why you would view any of the powers it offers as wasteful.
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Originally Posted by kinaki
wasting 3 power picks
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You could just shoot for 32.5% positional defenses, and bring lots of small purple inspirations. Pop a small purple and you're at the cap.
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The other thing is that in Kinaki's build Time's Juncture is providing a -17.5% debuff, which is effectively increasing your defense by that amount against all affected even-con non-AV mobs.|
Originally Posted by ChaosAngelGeno
You could just shoot for 32.5% positional defenses, and bring lots of small purple inspirations. Pop a small purple and you're at the cap.
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I have a Time/Electric build similar to Kinaki's (only at level 38 so far and nowhere near the softcap defensively without Power Boosted Farsight), and can stand in the middle of melee alongside the tank without problems. I do get stunned on occasion, but a break free fixes that quickly.
Note that at Tier 3 Clarion Destiny can provide basically perma mez protection, but Clarion Radial Epiphany also provides a power boost for defense, which would seem to boost Farsight's defense numbers to insane levels if combined with Power Boost.
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Can anyone else confirm this? I have never heard this before and it doesn't seem likely. Power Boost doesn't really have a defense attribute to enhance. But if someone else can confirm I would appreciate it.
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
I believe Power Boost can be slotted with Membranes/Cytoskeletons/Enzymes to make it provide a larger defense boost. That should allow you softcap quite easily.
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Quote:
A fair enough request. I've got screenshots for evidence |
Originally Posted by Vysires
Can anyone else confirm this?
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First, Power Build Up, unslotted. Note the defense boost is at 78.67%:
Then I drop a Cytoskeleton in there, and the defense boost goes up to 94.41%, a 20% increase:
Here's the same thing, but with Power Boost:
Power Boost with one Cytoskeleton:
Power Boost with a Cyto and an Enzyme:
That last one is really interesting: 120.63/78.67 = 1.533, which means 53.3% defense enhancement. So, a Cyto (20%) and an Enzyme (33.3%) together give 20+33.3 = 53.3% enhancement... except, ED should have reduced that to 51.3%. Apparently Hamis in Power Boost bypass ED somehow? I need more testing to be sure of that, and I did this on the beta server where HOs are a bit hard to come by on short notice, at least until the copy tool is fixed (again).
And, in case you're wondering if it's just a tooltip error, here's the combat attributes screenshot:
That's Farsight, with 3 defense SOs (+56%) and Power Boost (+120.63%). Farsight gives 9.38% base, so
9.38 * (1 + .56 + 1.2063) = 25.95
The screenshot says 25.93, which is very very close. The discrepancy is probably due to rounding somewhere.
Thanks for posting that. It was just so far outside what I expected, I had to ask for proof My first guess is that the defense boost is schedule A, rather then schedule B. I expect they didn't plan for it to be enhanceable, so they didn't bother to change it to schedule B or whatever it might be. If you can get ahold of enough HOs on test, I would be curious to see if ED kicks in on Schedule A or if it does at all. If it does stick to schedule A, then you could get the boost up to 150% or so. That plus slotting pushes Farsight up to 28.6% or so. With Clarion added it's up to 36.1%. All of this is give or take a small amount.
It gets even bigger for defender or controller numbers. Defender because their power boost and farsight both have higher base values. Controllers because while their Farsight is the same as Corruptors, their PB has the highest bast value for some reason, 125% boost.
My corr on live just hit 47, so I can slot HOs! I'm testing the ED thing now.
For a 47 corr, Power Build Up gives 77.09% defense strength, Membranes give 23% defense, and Enzymes give 38.3%.
With 1 membrane, it gives 94.82% (1.23x base). No surprises there.
With 2 membranes, it gives 112.55% (1.46x base). ED should have kicked in by now if it was going to.
With 3 membranes, it gives 130.28% (1.69x base). ED doesn't appear to be kicking in at all.
With 3 membranes and an Enzyme, it gives 151.17% (1.96x base). So... the Enzyme gave +27%. ED appears to be kicking in, but I can't figure out exactly how it's applying.
With 3 membranes and 2 Enzymes, it gives 155.60% (2.01x base). This enzyme gave +5.74% enhancement, which is exactly how much we would expect it to give at the most severe level of ED.
And, just for completeness, with 3 Membranes and 3 Enzymes, it gives +160.03% (2.07x base), again as much as we would expect from the most severe level of ED.
With 4 Membranes and 2 Enzymes, it gives 158.26%(2.05x base), which is 3.45% more enhancement than it had with 3 Membranes and 2 Enzymes. That's again what we would expect from the most severe level of ED.
A few unslotters later, with 2 Membranes and 2 Enzymes, it gives 152.94% (1.98x base). I again can't quite figure out how ED is being applied here.
So, in conclusion... I have no idea!!??
Note: All of these are Synthetic HOs except the third Membrane. That shouldn't matter as far as I know, but maybe it does.
Edit: In the respec screen, 3 Synthetic Membranes and one real Membrane gives 146.00% (1.89x base). This still doesn't line up with anything that I can figure out. My head hurts >.<
I figured out what's going on. It's applying ED normally to the total defense enhancement, but treating it all as schedule A. Quite simple/obvious, now that I realize it.
So, at 50, the best slotting for Power Boost with this is probably 3 enzymes, or 2 enzymes + 2 membranes. Either will get you to the ED cap; the first uses less slots, the second gives some recharge reduction.
Can someone confirm my math on this? Trying to determine the Def boost to Farsight from three slotting PowerBuildUp with Membranes.
First of all, the base def of Farsight unslotted is 9.38%. (All numbers taken from mids)
PowerBuildUp gives a 78.57% boost to def (approx)meaning that without slotting PBU, Farsight goes from 9.38% to 16.75% Def.
Slotting PowerBuildUp with three membranes gives a 56% boost to it's Def numbers.
This means that instead of giving a 78.57% boost, PBU gives a 78.57 * 1.56 = 122.57% boost.
So now PBU buffs Farsight from 9.38% to (9.38 * (1+1.2257)) = 20.877% Def.
That's a net gain in (20.877 - 16.75) = 4.12% Def by slotting PBU with three Membranes (as opposed to 1 Recharge).
However, Weave fully slotted adds around 6.8% Def, meaning that by dropping Weave and taking the 3 HO's in PBU, you gain 3 power picks but lose 2.68% Def.
Does that all sound correct? Is the total effect of HO'ing PBU a net increase in Farsight of 4.12%?
Thanks. Trying to make a high Def build to hit the softcap with *Incarnate* content (54% Def) but would love to get some power picks back if I could do that with this strategy. Not sure that giving up 2.68% Def would still let me, gotta crunch some more (other) numbers - but first, did I get this part right?
EDIT: I just noticed that my math does not appear to match Hopeling's numbers - what am I doing wrong?
IS there a way to slot PBU with HOs such that Farsight gains enough Def to make up for the loss of Weave? (6.8 Def)?
Thanks.
EDIT 2: That would mean (I *think*) getting an unslotted Farslight up to 23.55% Def - 6.8 higher than it would be by using an unslotted PBU on it alone (16.75%)?
For Great Justice!
Quote:
If my conclusion in post #12 is correct (and it perfectly explains the numbers I couldn't figure out in post #11, so I'm pretty confident), you'll actually get 60%, not 56%.|
Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
Slotting PowerBuildUp with three membranes gives a 56% boost to it's Def numbers.
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As to why your math doesn't match mine, remember that my Corr I used to test this was level 47, so his PBU was weaker, and HOs were +3 to him so they were stronger.
For a 50 Corr, 3 Membranes should grant (.6*.7867*9.38) = 4.43% defense more than unslotted PBU.
But we can get more. ED-capped defense enhancement (95%) would get you (.95*.7867*9.38) = 7.01% defense more than unslotted PBU, which replaces Weave handily.
To get ED-capped defense enhancement, you'll need 3 Enzymes, 2 Enzymes + 2 Membranes, or 5 Membranes. I prefer the 2+2 option, personally.
If you really want an even stronger Farsight, you could get Clarion Radial, although that would mean using Farsight every 2 minutes exactly, so you don't get overlap and your defenses could drop.
Thanks - going to go ahead and drop weave/tough/boxing and probably skip Clarion (I think) - though I am getting Agility 4th level, for even more Def, Rech, etc.
For Great Justice!
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What would be the difference between using 3 membranes + 1 Enzyme versus 2 + 2? In terms of overall Defense?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
To get ED-capped defense enhancement, you'll need 3 Enzymes, 2 Enzymes + 2 Membranes, or 5 Membranes. I prefer the 2+2 option, personally.
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For Great Justice!
Not much. Assuming even-level enhancements, 3 Membranes + 1 Enzyme would get you 93.3% defense enhancement before ED, which is near the cap, while 2 Membranes + 2 Enzymes would get you 106.6% before ED, a little above the cap. It would be a difference of maybe half a percent of final defense value.
The (long-standing) HO bug is fixed on beta now, so it looks like the days of absurdly-boosted Farsights are numbered.
I had long since thought it would never actually be changed. *shrug* It was always known to be a bug that HOs let you slot for things that shouldn't be slottable, so I guess I can't complain.
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As in this whole thread is now irrelevant? As in go back to using Weave?
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Originally Posted by Hopeling
The (long-standing) HO bug is fixed on beta now, so it looks like the days of absurdly-boosted Farsights are numbered.
I had long since thought it would never actually be changed. *shrug* It was always known to be a bug that HOs let you slot for things that shouldn't be slottable, so I guess I can't complain. |
For Great Justice!
If I assume that the nature of your observation re: test server is that HO's will no longer boost the Def of PBU, then I have a followup question.
Below is the build I had pre-this PBU idea - the one with Weave in it. However, since dropping Weave let me take a few nice powers, I would *still* like to see if I can hit the (Incarnate) softcap without it.
When I get my Alpha Incarnate, that will be Agility Core Paragon, which will give an accross the board 20% Def buff, 2/3 of which will ignore ED.
Will this make up for the loss of Weave? Will I be able to hit the *Incarnate* softcap of 54%?
Thanks.
EDIT: Forgot build:
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.953
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Eidolon: Level 50 Natural Corruptor
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Time Manipulation
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Ancillary Pool: Power Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), Decim-Build%(50)
Level 1: Time Crawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 2: Fire Ball -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(3), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Posi-Dmg/Rng(11), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(15)
Level 4: Temporal Mending -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx(A), Dct'dW-Heal(13), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg(31), Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(33)
Level 6: Time's Juncture -- DarkWD-ToHitDeb(A), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/Rchg(7), DarkWD-ToHitdeb/Rchg/EndRdx(7), DarkWD-ToHitDeb/EndRdx(39)
Level 8: Rain of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(9), Posi-Dmg/Rng(9), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Posi-Dam%(25)
Level 10: Temporal Selection -- HO:Golgi(A)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 16: Distortion Field -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(17), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(17), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(33), NrncSD-Acc/Hold/Rchg(36), Lock-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(45)
Level 18: Blaze -- Decim-Acc/Dmg(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx(19), Decim-Dmg/Rchg(19), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(21), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(21), Ruin-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 20: Time Stop -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(40), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(43), BasGaze-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(43)
Level 22: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- GA-3defTpProc(A), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(27)
Level 26: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(36), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(37), RedFtn-EndRdx(37)
Level 28: Farsight -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(29), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(29), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(33), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(34)
Level 30: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(31), Zephyr-Travel(42), Zephyr-ResKB(42), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(45)
Level 32: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(43)
Level 35: Slowed Response -- Acc-I(A), Achilles-ResDeb%(36), Achilles-DefDeb(40), Achilles-DefDeb/Rchg(42)
Level 38: Chrono Shift -- P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Numna-Heal/Rchg(39), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Power Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Temp Invulnerability -- RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(45), RctvArm-ResDam(46), RctvArm-EndRdx(46)
Level 47: Total Focus -- T'Death-Acc/Dmg(A), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx(48), T'Death-Dmg/Rchg(48), T'Death-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), T'Death-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50), T'Death-Dam%(50)
Level 49: Aim -- HO:Membr(A)
Level 50: Pyronic Core Final Judgement
Level 50: Reactive Core Flawless Interface
Level 0: Marshal
Level 0: Invader
Level 0: High Pain Threshold
Level 0: Born In Battle
Level 50: Agility Core Paragon
Level 50: Clarion Radial Epiphany
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Scourge
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Mrcl-Rcvry+(23)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(23), EndMod-I(46)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1569;732;1464;HEX;| |78DA6D94CB4F135114C6EF74A6164A4B81F27EF621505A5AA9BA306E4C403022200| |A51838F3AB1034C523BCDB48DBAF45FF0117C475DBA302AAFC68DBA53D72A46FD17| |7C6C75530F733EDB26B649F3BBF3DDF39D7BEEB97766FAF241D7D343570F08C9339| |652B3D9C498619AF94CCE301D336A2E6FAA29413FC7B89E345246DA41E3AE5244E2| |B89A5ED292B109DDD412A3E4CEF9CA73A3F9C5C5D8BC7E514B4CAB693D934FA939D| |D480BE7AC61A46273194D4B7AACE194A6263533BBAC67DCD6F384BEB49CD3D34BAE| |7FB3197A681ACFE81762B3C625CDA474D99C665E69A752A2F41FB409FC8A76719F1| |05784ED015379CCAC7FC86C7FC48CDFDB362AE25973C92B4427CF85289FC49A22AD| |22DF3AF2AD319D1BC8BBC97C4E796478E42392A5B98E327BA7C069A66F86F9823C7| |6F6C8F60D9BA5EDD8040BCC8197CC218203F91DA8A906B5D4A016276A692F305729| |7F2DF656BB8FA0C8224049EAACCD15A5BA08C7B9C0269A73F39C70FB595BA31C1EF| |4D6F3818AE85144C347F013D3B7C50C9E972C0EFFE69A87098DF036AE70BF9B6E81| |B799CD77C0BBCCCE9BCC755AD78BDE78B1EE20D60D63DDF067A64475B7609F2D384| |399B436ECB36DB76CC575B6717D0ACD75F09CBDA385CFC2EF6406EB983BDD603DE8| |616E505D5DF076C1DB0D6F37BC3E177222871F395A69DD1EF62A3DF0F6363387BEE| |09CBFA1775F998DE4E9C33EFAE009373037A996007A14C0BE836FC8E7A55EBD620E| |BD661628B69FF3C8FD3770B7E639CFC01C73F03AEB6FA95D21F43384BBF18EB408F| |C915EC93AA3613F331A0083CCF7141BC3B9C716F83C779D06CF806799F173608219| |A11246B0F6C87EBEB3DDCAFFEF68B852C35D1DA9A2C5AB687BAA687BAB6887CB5A7| |16A7B8C7743C8DCA759A5F49D1012FAF4DD491AE2A4286B3FCB9A249DC05D98E45E| |FDA88C0F71FCAFB266935678ADD66BCCA88F636A1B4ADF9B6280CE36CEF1C52D6F7| |9BCE0B4AAB5C6A72AC6272BC6C72AC67F5ACBDE271579FE02DE0EDBD6| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
For Great Justice!
Quote:
Yep >.<
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Originally Posted by Metatron_NA
As in this whole thread is now irrelevant? As in go back to using Weave?
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Hmmm... I have another build thought, but I want to post that in it's own thread...
I couldn't give up not taking Weave, so I came up with a different approach... but will it suck?
http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showt...50#post4069150
Let me know.
For Great Justice!
I've been agonizing over a couple def/corr builds. Since I hate wasting 3 power picks for the sake of weave, I've also been trying to reach the softcap without delving into the fighting pool.
So far, I have the below build with 44/41/38 positional values.
http://www.cohplanner.com/mids/downl...33C67FDDE9E4C4