The regen and tohit debuffs are pretty insignificant against AVs because they are mitigated by AV debuff resistance (which goes as high as 87%, for a level 54). Just take one of the DoTs.
Thanks Hopeling, didn't know they resisted it so much, especially since I'd only be able to put out 60% -regen at a time and well, resisted by even 50% is already lousy. So... Overall (like pink bosses/EBs and the occasional AV) would you say only Reactive is worth it?
I wouldn't say Reactive is the only worthwhile one. Preemptive and Spectral do just as much DoT damage, and are less likely to run into the stacking limit with teammates; their secondary effects are less useful than -res, but the proc rate on the secondary effect is low anyway in the Radial path. Cognitive and Degenerative DoTs are also ok, although 20% weaker and somewhat more commonly resisted.
Since pwiki says 'A single target can be hit up to 4 times of the same type of proc.' that means if 20 people with Reactive are dogpiling on some AV he'll have at most 10% -resist right?
Since they're all minor debuffs anyway, although Reactive is the only one listed as moderate damage, looks like the debuffs might be useful only on harder bosses (not that bad tho, some take long to kill like a +4 EB on the ITF). But the percentages are low on the 'pure debuff' ones (looking at Gravitic now in the site). I had this concept especially for the Stalker to make her at least a bit like the Rogue classes on other games where they get a lot of debuffs, usually ST (that would be my idea on revamping Stalkers but I digress).
But from what you say I'm better off with a damage one. I'm kinda impressed the chance to immob and confuse are so low and last so little on Spectral and Cognitive (immobing could help both my Stalker and my Scrapper). Preemptive does look nice but since I can't see how much end it drains when it procs I'm guessing it's about the same as an elec blaster tier 1? Since ya know, Diamagnetic which I have is the same -tohit as any Dark Melee attack.
And thanks again for the help!
Right, the -res caps at 10%. The DoTs also cap, but at 8 applications.
Preemptive I think drains 1% end per tick, for up to 4 ticks? Or is it 5?
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Need to clarify: Reactive/Spectral/Preemptive all do the same DoT. Cognitive and Degenerative do about 2 to 3 points less damage. Typically I see 11-14 damage considering all the different DoTs on the average target, so the DoT difference is very minimal.
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Originally Posted by Kioshi
although Reactive is the only one listed as moderate damage
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Oh good to know.|
Originally Posted by JayboH
Need to clarify: Reactive/Spectral/Preemptive all do the same DoT. Cognitive and Degenerative do about 2 to 3 points less damage. Typically I see 11-14 damage considering all the different DoTs on the average target, so the DoT difference is very minimal.
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Hey JayBoH didn't you test the immob one? I think you mentioned it. I was even considering it despite finding the chance too low... It would give at least my dm/da scrapper a chance to prevent stunned mobs from wandering somewhat (since she has a damage aura and damage auras trigger those right?) and keep the bosses in place for the punching (dunno what the immob mag is).
I'll go a bit further and say that the only interface powers that are even worth taking are the radial damage ones. It doesn't matter how good any of the debuffs are because one thing the debuffs will never do is matter in aoes. The damage procs, on the other hand, can and will foreshorten engagements considerably by finishing off minions that would otherwise have required another aoe or a single target attack to defeat. The fact that the damage procs are the only ones not specifically resisted by AVs is simply salt in the wound.
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It's mag 2, and it isn't all that great on the radial side. When I've talked with Arbiter Hawk it sounds more like it was designed to prevent melee attacks. I was interested in Spectral for OG wandering and to keep mobs in Burn, but it just doesn't seem to go off enough. Even if you go Core, you need to think of how often a PBAOE proc goes off - which is one, maybe two mobs per use, since that's about how often the immob should fire.|
Originally Posted by Kioshi
Oh good to know.
Hey JayBoH didn't you test the immob one? I think you mentioned it. I was even considering it despite finding the chance too low... It would give at least my dm/da scrapper a chance to prevent stunned mobs from wandering somewhat (since she has a damage aura and damage auras trigger those right?) and keep the bosses in place for the punching (dunno what the immob mag is). |
I kept Spectral on my stone/da though for theme, and since it does good damage.
...by the way, last night I made my first edit ever on the Paragon Wiki, for Spectral and Cognitive, since they were using the old values.
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Ehhh I dunno - Diamagnetic can help if you are shy of the softcaps, with a 100% chance of proccing. I could totally see that advancing a thugs/traps mastermind by quite a bit, for example.
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Originally Posted by PleaseRecycle
I'll go a bit further and say that the only interface powers that are even worth taking are the radial damage ones. It doesn't matter how good any of the debuffs are because one thing the debuffs will never do is matter in aoes. The damage procs, on the other hand, can and will foreshorten engagements considerably by finishing off minions that would otherwise have required another aoe or a single target attack to defeat. The fact that the damage procs are the only ones not specifically resisted by AVs is simply salt in the wound.
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Yeah I saw the new values in game, still not very different from 12% to 20% since the damage chance goes way down, so I agree with PleaseRecycle, Radial seems always better, in all the debuffs (well unless the -regen was significant on diamagnetic).|
Originally Posted by JayboH
It's mag 2, and it isn't all that great on the radial side. When I've talked with Arbiter Hawk it sounds more like it was designed to prevent melee attacks. I was interested in Spectral for OG wandering and to keep mobs in Burn, but it just doesn't seem to go off enough. Even if you go Core, you need to think of how often a PBAOE proc goes off - which is one, maybe two mobs per use, since that's about how often the immob should fire.
I kept Spectral on my stone/da though for theme, and since it does good damage. ...by the way, last night I made my first edit ever on the Paragon Wiki, for Spectral and Cognitive, since they were using the old values. |
My idea for the Stalker was to keep hitting so I could immob hard targets for me - for example in a +3 ITF the bosses and EBs took quite some time to kill and even damaging them a lot I don't keep aggro and they pounded the lower level resist brute, and I can lose aggro anytime with the toon, but mag 20... meh, not sure now, glad I decided last night to get her destiny and lore to t3 so I could get the level shifts. Well I'll choose one of the DoTs later (she has the 75% -tohit/-25% -regen, not sure how much it helps since it's the same -tohit as one shadow punch and her attacks are slowish - she's EM/Nin and usually softcapped on the iTrials to 59% due to buffs or using a small purple). I just don't wanna go reactive because most people pick it.
For the DM/DA it was the same as yours, immob for OG, especially with no taunt aura like a Brute. But I'll incarnate her later.
Thanks a lot for the help
I figure this would be the best place to ask.
I love debuffs and both my 50 melee toons are ST focused (DM/DA Scrapper and EM/Nin Stalker - I also have a SS/Fire Brute but I went Reactive on him for ZOMG Damage).
I want to have the best debuffing Interface for a ST boss-killer and for AVs in trials and etc. So far got Diamagnetic to t3 on my Stalker but I'm not sure it's the best options since I only saw the numbers later and they're not that hot (5% tohit debuff, same as any dark melee attack, 15% regen debuff).
Do you think the regen debuff is significant for an AV fight where I'll be constantly hitting him with either toon? Or would I be better picking another Interface, and if so what would you suggest? My intention, especially for the Stalker, is to get the one that would help the team the most since she's plenty survivable, the DM/DA scrapper I'll incarnate later.
And if the debuff is significant would you go for the 100% tohit/50% regen or the other way around? I don't know how exactly much AVs resist -tohit.
Thanks for any suggestion, I'd like to make the most of the Interface slot and all look somewhat attractive. And since the proc can be effective only 4 times according to pwiki, I'd like to know what you think would be the best for hard targets (and if they aren't effective for AVs, I'm open to suggestions for the best for bosses and the like since both these toons are boss killers in team play).