Inherent training-origins: gaining power within
By
Dechs Kaison,
Posted on: 2011-08-04 08:28 in Suggestions and Ideas
This is an amazing idea. Elegant, even.
It would be difficult as maple pancake to code, though.
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I like the idea although I wouldn't get rid of training enhancement as they let you over slot to +2. Otherwise I quite like the idea.
Quote:
This is kind of the question Paragon Studios had to answer themselves when SSK came in, you know, the 'what about those five levels higher'? Though it's rephrased as 'What about those gaining the +15% (+5 per level over yours) of base enhancement value?'|
Originally Posted by Diggis
I like the idea although I wouldn't get rid of training enhancement as they let you over slot to +2. Otherwise I quite like the idea.
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My answer would be either stick with baseline so to maintain balance or just allow these training focus boosts to be that of the highest TO value (+15% of base value). Though if it stayed at baseline it would keep those age old advice lines "DOs are twice as strong as TOs" still truthful. But even then, DOs are still going to provide more benefit than any single TO would so either would work.
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@Oneirohero
Personally, I like the idea of being able to fill a slot with a "placeholder" that has limited effect, but which you'd really want to replace. It would mean that new characters would have an easier time slotting up, and your enhancements turning red wouldn't be quite such a disaster.
On the flip side, I'm highly against removing Trainings. Without them, NOTHING would drop before about level 10, and that would be a big mistake. Furthermore, it would take away people's ability to slot +3 SOs, which is now very doable. The difference isn't very pronounced, but it's there.
Really, though, if we want to talk about experimenting with slotting, Training-level enhancement values ain't it. By far the biggest factor when slotting is ED, and ED doesn't really kick in until SOs and above. Sure, you could let a new player experiment and become convinced that a 1ACC/5DMG is great slotting because it makes attacks very powerful with SOs, only to discover later on that this gets hit with ED quite hard. In fact, this has been a big problem for me in bringing new characters through the levels - I can never quite tell if my endurance slotting is enough or not because I'm using weak enhancements and so have no real idea of what I'll be seeing towards the mid to late game.
I'm honestly not sure that a better idea won't be to just have a nominal-price vendor selling level 5 Common Inventions but nothing above.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Quote:
I suppose there's nothing to say Training-origin enhancements can't stay, but to introduce Training focus 'placeholders' would make TOs rather redundant, and adding Lv5 common IO vendors would just make TOs redundant and not solve the issues of on-hand resources that training focuses was meant to resolve.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Personally, I like the idea of being able to fill a slot with a "placeholder" that has limited effect, but which you'd really want to replace. It would mean that new characters would have an easier time slotting up, and your enhancements turning red wouldn't be quite such a disaster.
On the flip side, I'm highly against removing Trainings. Without them, NOTHING would drop before about level 10, and that would be a big mistake. Furthermore, it would take away people's ability to slot +3 SOs, which is now very doable. The difference isn't very pronounced, but it's there. Really, though, if we want to talk about experimenting with slotting, Training-level enhancement values ain't it. By far the biggest factor when slotting is ED, and ED doesn't really kick in until SOs and above. Sure, you could let a new player experiment and become convinced that a 1ACC/5DMG is great slotting because it makes attacks very powerful with SOs, only to discover later on that this gets hit with ED quite hard. In fact, this has been a big problem for me in bringing new characters through the levels - I can never quite tell if my endurance slotting is enough or not because I'm using weak enhancements and so have no real idea of what I'll be seeing towards the mid to late game. I'm honestly not sure that a better idea won't be to just have a nominal-price vendor selling level 5 Common Inventions but nothing above. |
But as for the +3 (+15% effect) thing, why not just do the way off the SSK and make training focuses as strong as +3 TOs to make everybody happy? For missing drops, I think I mentioned putting infrequent DO drops as an alternative to just 'no drops'.
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@Oneirohero
Another radical idea from myself, my last suggestion was baaad, so I'm hoping this quality of life suggestion might get better results.
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The idea is simply this:
Removing TO enhancements as a physical entity and give characters the ability to set a training focus on any empty enhancement slot. A training focus gives a TO-grade boost to an attribute until it's overridden by a physical enhancement or change of mind.
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How this works,
Whenever you gain a new power and when you add new enhancement slots you'll be given the chance to click onto an empty slot and reveal a number of enhancement symbols surrounding it, ones applicable to the power in question.
Cursoring over each one will explain what it enhances, how much it enhances and how much more powerful it will improve that aspect. Selecting the aspect you'd like to improve will set that slot as a training focus, which in essence is a ghostly TO enhancement that doesn't really take a spot but improves the power's attribute nevertheless.
In the end, when you get new powers and when you get new slots for powers, you're able to enhance those powers immediately with the attributes you want, even if you have no enhancements on hand. The logic of this change is to give precedence that when you train for enhancement slots, you're training to improve your existing powers as opposed to gaining new ones. And that your character alone is able to self-train themselves to gain small improvements to their powers without outside interference.
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- How powerful are the inherent training enhancements/focuses?
The enhancement attributes you can 'fill' an empty slot with will be the same as an even-level TO enhancement we have today. But like IOs, these attributes will not decay with levelling and are assumed to be the same level as your character. You could say that this proposed change would turn TOs into very weak IOs you can get free with every open enhancement slot you get!AND
What would drop instead of TO enhancements? Nothing most likely, the alternative would be to give DOs more room and let them be the sole enhancement drops up until SOs start appearing in later levels.
- What about learning how to combine enhancements in the early levels?
With no physical TO enhancements to combine any more, this could push the in-action explanation of the mechanics a bit further down the levelling line without some extra changes to make a point that you can combine physical enhancements. The alternative with DOs dropping at earlier levels could elevate these symptoms.----
That's about it, I'm at the mercy of you discerning folks once again so I'd like to hear about what you think and what could be fixed. Though I'm pretty sure there'll be a fews jrangers along pretty soon, so HURRY! D:
Home server: Victory
Characters on: Victory & Virtue
My first 50(0)! 18/11/11
@Oneirohero