IMO Ice Control on a Controller vs on a Dominator are two wildly different experiences. I have two Ice trollers and one Dominator at 50.
Ice Controllers are very low--possibly ultra low--damage characters for most of their careers. Prior to the 40s, I would probably peg them as the lowest damage characters in the game. They are primarily support characters. Very late in their careers they can do pretty well on their own. Ice Controllers rely on their pet to some extent and unfortunately the pet kind of sucks comparatively speaking, especially next to Earth Control.
Ice Dominators have an entire secondary devoted to damage. Because of this they skirt the lack of soloability issue faced by Ice Controllers. They also get mezz protection built in via Domination. I am currently working on a build for my lvl 50 Ice Dom to retain perma Domination as low as level 30, for exemping on Task Forces and such. On the whole Ice Dominators do not have a large number of powers that benefit from Domination, but the ability to instantly hold a boss never gets old. Unfortunately Arctic Air is one of the powers that does not (directly) benefit from Domination. This means the Confuse duration from the power is shorter for Dominators than Controllers and the power overall somewhat weaker, assuming both characters have mezz protection.
Ice Control itself is a somewhat lopsided set, IMO. It's fun, but it leans hard on acquiring some sort of defenses and (IMO especially) mezz protection. There is also conflict between knockdown and the AoE immobilize and the knockdown that I personally wish didn't exist.
There is some debate in the community about power selections, especially as they relate to Ice's PBAoE slow/confuse/fear aura, Arctic Air. I am of the mind that skipping this power invalidates a reason to play Ice Control. Other people have different opinions, which you can see around the boards.
As for your secondaries:
Cold Domination is a late blooming buff and debuff set. It is ok out of the box and excellent with lots of IOs but average and possibly even weak prior to the late 30s. A well IOed high level Cold Dom can pretty much ignore endurance costs altogether. Cold is a very highly sought after teammate for task forces and trials no matter what your primary is.
Icy Assault is a mixed ranged/melee assault set with fairly average values across the board. Power Boost increases the duration of some powers. Icy Assault animates quickly and does very high DPA against bosses but eats endurance very, very fast. Paired with Ice Control, you will need to seek out lots of endurance boosting abilities in order to avoid flat lining.
The videos have been posted a few times before, but for your reference, here are some vids I took of my Ice Controller and Ice Dominator doing standard missions at level 50 with average-cost IO builds. These are mainly as reference points and not intended to show how "leet" the characters are. Most people have a good idea of what a Fire or Plant should play like and not really an Ice.
Controller (Ice/Rad)
Ice/Radiation Controller in mission with Carnies, set to +0x8. The character avoided using too many secondary abilities to show more or less what would do with any secondary:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHpUQXhLsLg
My Ice Controller farm video showing how to leverage Arctic Air as damage and survival tool for collecting AE tickets for your Ice troller:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VIZyL9m4E1U
Dominator (Ice/Fire)
Short standard tip mission featuring Longbow (+0x8, bosses on)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NDRgwvxBRBI
Standard tip mission featuring Malta. Bosses are off, but still show up in the mission. This mission starts with Domination down, and shows how I had to duck behind corners to avoid getting mezzed/killed to survive:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utkoUxOY-1U
Beginning to end mission featuring Council:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f9kQIr6QEaA
Quote:
Damage isn't a huge concern of mine, our group is fairly decent set of friends and i rarely care about personal dps mostly just control. I love slows and -recharge of ice sets and i've had an ice dom before and it was great! but also i loved cold corrupter mostly for his debuffs! |
Originally Posted by Oedipus_Tex
IMO Ice Control on a Controller vs on a Dominator are two wildly different experiences. I have two Ice trollers and one Dominator at 50.
Ice Controllers are very low--possibly ultra low--damage characters for most of their careers. Prior to the 40s, I would probably peg them as the lowest damage characters in the game. They are primarily support characters. Very late in their careers they can do pretty well on their own. Ice Controllers rely on their pet to some extent and unfortunately the pet kind of sucks comparatively speaking, especially next to Earth Control. Ice Dominators have an entire secondary devoted to damage. Because of this they skirt the lack of soloability issue faced by Ice Controllers. They also get mezz protection built in via Domination. I am currently working on a build for my lvl 50 Ice Dom to retain perma Domination as low as level 30, for exemping on Task Forces and such. On the whole Ice Dominators do not have a large number of powers that benefit from Domination, but the ability to instantly hold a boss never gets old. Unfortunately Arctic Air is one of the powers that does not (directly) benefit from Domination. This means the Confuse duration from the power is shorter for Dominators than Controllers and the power overall somewhat weaker, assuming both characters have mezz protection. Ice Control itself is a somewhat lopsided set, IMO. It's fun, but it leans hard on acquiring some sort of defenses and (IMO especially) mezz protection. There is also conflict between knockdown and the AoE immobilize and the knockdown that I personally wish didn't exist. There is some debate in the community about power selections, especially as they relate to Ice's PBAoE slow/confuse/fear aura, Arctic Air. I am of the mind that skipping this power invalidates a reason to play Ice Control. Other people have different opinions, which you can see around the boards. As for your secondaries: Cold Domination is a late blooming buff and debuff set. It is ok out of the box and excellent with lots of IOs but average and possibly even weak prior to the late 30s. A well IOed high level Cold Dom can pretty much ignore endurance costs altogether. Cold is a very highly sought after teammate for task forces and trials no matter what your primary is. Icy Assault is a mixed ranged/melee assault set with fairly average values across the board. Power Boost increases the duration of some powers. Icy Assault animates quickly and does very high DPA against bosses but eats endurance very, very fast. Paired with Ice Control, you will need to seek out lots of endurance boosting abilities in order to avoid flat lining. |
my worry is that sets strength is in its shields and not its debuffs thats my main concern, i like cold dom for its slows and debuffs not its shields =\ cause i hate animation for the shields sounds silly BUT yea totally cant stand it!
The set's strengths are a mix of buffs and debuffs. I would not personally recommend skipping the shields. If you want a similar sort of Controller that is highly debuffed focus, it may be worth considering Radiation, or waiting to see what Time Manipulation and Poison have in store.
Just wanna say great Ice/Fire Dom Tex
never even thought about that combo before as Ice/ seems to get a bad wrap...but watching your vids has inspired me...AND it looks really fun to play too! least i hope so:P
50's
Zoomazoom - Energy/Fire Blaster. Pyrul - Fire/Kin Controller. Vampir Lord - Kat/Regen Scrapper. Righteous Fox - SD/Mace Tanker. Strikeforce Oz - SD/SS Tanker. Paragons Green Beret - Arch/EM Blaster. Galaxium Omega - Invul/EM Tanker.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by feaRfox
Just wanna say great Ice/Fire Dom Tex
never even thought about that combo before as Ice/ seems to get a bad wrap...but watching your vids has inspired me...AND it looks really fun to play too! least i hope so:P |
Thanks. That character is one of my favorites.
Compared to /Ice, Ice/Fire drops Power Boost but picks up extra Fire damage. If you take the Fire APP for Rain of Fire and Fireball, you have +80% damage to those powers much of the time. (The character in the videos is actually mid-way through a respec and will eventually have his +damage power up more often.)
The other nice thing about /Fire is Consume, which both refills your endurance bar and grants endurance drain resistance. These are good to have when going up against Carnies, Malta, and Seers. Not to mention just good in general, because Ice Control can be difficult on your endurance bar.
Keep in mind the video I posted is of a character at level 50 slotted with IOs. The character is still pretty powerful leveling up, but in the earlier levels IMO alpha breakers are much more important. Once you get some defense, they are much less so. Ice Control actually excels at dealing with spread out enemies simply because its powers in total can cover a huge area, and one of your best AoE mezzes is portable. You can significantly increase your life expectancy around level 35 by taking Combat Jumping and slotting as many Thunderstrikes as possible. You may also want to temporarily take the Psi APP until you become a perma-dom for the mezz protection and psi defense.
By the way, here is the build for the Ice/Fire character in case you want to use it or modify it for another Dominator set. Note that there is some "fantasy slotting" here: I don't actually have Ragnaroks or a +3% Defense IO slotted but have the build set up in case I acquire them.
The character uses Spiritual alphas to boost Recharge, combined with Ageless Destiny to boost endurance and further boost Recharge. (On trials, he switches to Cardiac/Barrier for the extra defense, since he is lucky enough to have multiple incarnate abilities). In any case, do not try this slotting without an incarnate ability that boost endurance in some way.
Also note: recent announcements about changes in pool powers probably mean dropping Aid Other. I will probably replace it with Shiver, a power I consider "okay" but far from critical most of the time.
Villain Plan by Mids' Villain Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Solar Icecap: Level 50 Magic Dominator
Primary Power Set: Ice Control
Secondary Power Set: Fiery Assault
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Medicine
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Fire Mastery
Villain Profile:
Level 1: Block of Ice -- BasGaze-Acc/Hold(A), BasGaze-EndRdx/Rchg/Hold(3), BasGaze-Acc/Rchg(15), BasGaze-Rchg/Hold(17)
Level 1: Flares -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(3), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(5)
Level 2: Frostbite -- GravAnch-Immob/EndRdx(A), GravAnch-Hold%(5), GravAnch-Acc/Immob/Rchg(17), GravAnch-Acc/Rchg(21), GravAnch-Immob/Rchg(23)
Level 4: Fire Breath -- Dmg-I(A)
Level 6: Arctic Air -- CoPers-Conf(A), CoPers-Conf/EndRdx(7), CoPers-Conf%(7), CoPers-Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Conf/Rchg(9), CoPers-Acc/Rchg(11)
Level 8: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 10: Fire Blast -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(11), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(13), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(13), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 12: Ice Slick -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 14: Super Speed -- Zephyr-ResKB(A), Zephyr-Travel/EndRdx(19)
Level 16: Embrace of Fire -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx(36)
Level 18: Aid Other -- Heal-I(A)
Level 20: Aid Self -- Numna-Heal/EndRdx(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(25), Numna-Heal(25), Numna-Heal/Rchg(36), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(36), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(46)
Level 22: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(31), RedFtn-EndRdx/Rchg(34), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(48), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 24: Boxing -- Stpfy-Acc/Rchg(A), Stpfy-EndRdx/Stun(31), Stpfy-Acc/EndRdx(31), Stpfy-Stun/Rng(37), Stpfy-Acc/Stun/Rchg(40), Stpfy-KB%(50)
Level 26: Glacier -- UbrkCons-Hold/Rchg(A), UbrkCons-Acc/Hold/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-Acc/Rchg(27), UbrkCons-EndRdx/Hold(29), UbrkCons-Hold(29)
Level 28: Consume -- Efficacy-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A)
Level 30: Tough -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 32: Jack Frost -- ExRmnt-Acc/Rchg(A), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg(33), ExRmnt-Dmg/EndRdx(33), ExRmnt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), ExRmnt-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(34), ExRmnt-+Res(Pets)(34)
Level 35: Weave -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx(46), RedFtn-Def/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFtn-Def(43), RedFtn-EndRdx(50)
Level 38: Blaze -- Thundr-Acc/Dmg(A), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Thundr-Dmg/EndRdx(39), Thundr-Dmg/Rchg(40), Thundr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 41: Fire Ball -- Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(A), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Ragnrk-Knock%(43)
Level 44: Rain of Fire -- Posi-Acc/Dmg(A), Posi-Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dmg/Rchg(45), Posi-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(45), Posi-Dam%(46)
Level 47: Rise of the Phoenix -- Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), Erad-Acc/Rchg(48)
Level 49: Fire Shield -- GA-3defTpProc(A)
Level 50: Spiritual Core Paragon
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Domination
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrcl-Rcvry+(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(21)
Code:
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If you don't want /cold with the shields, then roll a Ice/storm instead.
Thank you for that build Tex personally i think you've nailed it...doesnt really need any tweaking apart from as you said...combat jumping.
how do you think ice/ competes with plant/ on a side note? i mean apart from less damage...the bonus seems to be a perma and portable confuse...*shrugs*
btw you dont have a plant/fire video do you? or anyone else for that matter?
50's
Zoomazoom - Energy/Fire Blaster. Pyrul - Fire/Kin Controller. Vampir Lord - Kat/Regen Scrapper. Righteous Fox - SD/Mace Tanker. Strikeforce Oz - SD/SS Tanker. Paragons Green Beret - Arch/EM Blaster. Galaxium Omega - Invul/EM Tanker.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by feaRfox
Thank you for that build Tex
personally i think you've nailed it...doesnt really need any tweaking apart from as you said...combat jumping.how do you think ice/ competes with plant/ on a side note? i mean apart from less damage...the bonus seems to be a perma and portable confuse...*shrugs* btw you dont have a plant/fire video do you? or anyone else for that matter? |
Plant is a very straight forward set as control sets go. I don't have a Plant/Fire but I do have a Plant/Psi.
To be honest I am not a huge fan of Plant Control. There is nothing technically wrong with it, I just find it sort of one-note. Other people really like it, so it's more of a personal taste thing. Seeds of Confusion is a very good power, but everything else is pretty average. Creepers adds some damage but IMO isn't really a standout as a control power. The set is basically considered very good but most of this comes from a single power.
I should say that my impression in general is that when people talk about a set being "able to solo" at whatever setting, what they mean is solo a certain type of map. Technically speaking, my Ice Dominator "can" solo at +4x8 if I hand pick the enemy group. Doing that in a way that is both comfortable and practical in every day missions and dealing with ambushes, patrols, adverse mezz and damage types, etc, is something quite different. Contrary to what many people experience, my Ice Dominator was much less squishy than my Plant leveling up simply because when a mezz missed the enemy couldn't run up and punch him dead instantly. Whether that's because the set is better or worse I can't say. It may be that I just feel more involved playing my Ice characters and use better strategies with them.
That's not to say Plant Dominators don't outperform Ice in some ways. When they go perma-dom they have a fast recharging AoE confuse that hits bosses instantly. It's great on trials. And you have a measure of greater security in that once you see the purple confuse dots as a Plant, they stick around much longer than with Ice.
I'd still prefer Ice (or Earth or even Electric) for dealing with ambushes though. Pulse powers like Ice Slick, Arctic Air, Earthquake, Volcanic Gasses, and Static Field are at their finest when enemies are charging toward you and you don't want to/can't wait for them to all group up before you throw down the mezz. Ice Slick's -Run Speed is also much more practical in reality than it sounds at first because it keeps enemies from immediately running out of the area like they sometimes do with Earthquake (particularly in around-the-corner casts). Of course the -ToHit in EQ is nothing to sneeze at either.
Well...it seems im going to roll an Ice/Fire Dom after that!
but on the same token...i need to make a Plant/?...its the only primary i havent really dived into...so i think im going to go Plant/Kin/Fire as an alternate to my new Ice/Fire/Fire project! because also ive just...wanted...to have a Plant/Kin
Thank you once again Tex
50's
Zoomazoom - Energy/Fire Blaster. Pyrul - Fire/Kin Controller. Vampir Lord - Kat/Regen Scrapper. Righteous Fox - SD/Mace Tanker. Strikeforce Oz - SD/SS Tanker. Paragons Green Beret - Arch/EM Blaster. Galaxium Omega - Invul/EM Tanker.
Quote:
Plant/Psi doms are ridiculously awesome. You should try one.
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Originally Posted by feaRfox
Well...it seems im going to roll an Ice/Fire Dom after that!
but on the same token...i need to make a Plant/?...its the only primary i havent really dived into...so i think im going to go Plant/Kin/Fire as an alternate to my new Ice/Fire/Fire project! because also ive just...wanted...to have a Plant/Kin Thank you once again Tex |
"PvP Messiah"
does Power Boost or Power Build-Up affect slows? according to mids it doesn't.
I don't think it does but i hear conflicting info lol
perma jump is ---> /up 1
Basically i want most lock down/slows and utter control possibly as i dont want to buff(personal choice) debuffs are fine, and i have both near level 20 right now i've been using my controller and i feel gotten better powers on him(just selected better) and slows from infridge seem amazing and over all debuffs really nice.
But big question is will... -recharge from /cold dom really be greater asset then the damage from a dom? basically just want most -slow and -recharge i can stack along with usual holds and debuffs but really hard choice for me as i do love both classes.
So opinions controllers! does ice and cold dom really benefit each other? or would i be better off grabbing damage of a dom?