I can't help you much with Dark Melee as I've never played it but I do have some familiarity with Stone.
Personally I'd grab Stone Skin sometime in the teens or 20's; it's actually a fairly substantial chunk of S/L resistance that's nice in the early game. Another item is Teleport itself; I generally toss an endred in there and call it good... it's a rather end heavy way to get from one end of IP to the other.
I never took Crystal armor on either of my stone tankers and frankly didn't miss it much. The only time I really could have used it was going through Croatoa with all the Witches. With the change to inherent Fitness (still need to respec my Stone/Fire) things open up so it's a valid choice now. Speaking of inherent Fitness common slotting is to add a couple of slots to Swift to help with the runspeed issues.
Granite could be better slotted; ED capping the resistance will make it pointless running Tough thus helping with your endurance. Likewise ED capping defense can eliminate the need for Weave (both of these while in Granite of course). It's a tricky power to slot; old school was to toss 3 resist and 3 defense SO's in. With IO's you've a balancing act; you want to max out resist and defense and at the same time get some bonuses.
Here's how I slotted my Stone/Fire's Granite:
Granite Armor -- ResDam-I(A), GftotA-Run+(37), Aegis-ResDam(37), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(39), GftotA-Def(39), LkGmblr-Rchg+(39)
Good luck with your tanker.
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Welcome to my original server.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
As I mentioned in my previous thread, I decided to make a Stone/DM tank for the TT today on Union. I did so, and got him to level 13--huzzah!
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I wrote ya build off when it comes to recoveries, sorry XD taunt just don't recharge quick enough for me you would have to stack it with gauntlet and hope no one redirects aggro from you making sure that the defender ya teams relying on gets to disappear from the gene pool. I don't believe in having to make recoveries often and you won't but bleep happens.
Posting myself about quickly with endurance reduced teleport I found important, also a recovery thing, having enough taunt duration to meet the recharge of taunt versus 54s can be also very important in granite mode and out of it too imo.
Stonetanks can be made so robust that the usefulness of fly is, but falling out of the sky could be your worry tping along. I keep hitting the one key for tp self.
I can't load up ya build from this location, I would of had the stoneskin passive with 3% def to all in it early-ish instead of hover, slotting so that with it and granite I am capped. Crystal 22 at latest cos of Moonfire and that, Minerals at 35 at the latest cos of Countess Crey but if you know what ya up against problems can be removed by other means.
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
Thanks, CMA! You didn't see any super-serious problems with the build other when I took Stone Skin and the slotting of Granite and Swift?
In some ways that makes it *harder*, 'cause I really wanted to take Stone Skin much earlier but couldn't figure out what to delay! Do you have a recommendation for what I delay until the 40's? I don't want to put a power there that needs to be heavily slotted because then I may not have enough for Gloom.
Similarly, I would love to put another slot or two in Swift and Granite, but as I mentioned, I ran into a serious slot crunch. Do you have a suggestion? I'm hesitant to pull slots from Gloom or ToF because I'd lose a pretty substantial recharge bonus if I do. (Hence my question about the relative value of recharge vs. run speed bonuses.) How important is it to slot Rooted for regen? I could probably pull a slot or two from it if I had to.
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Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
New Dawn, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "recoveries" but with Hasten up Taunt recharges in 4 seconds, without Hasten in 6. I'm not a heavy Taunt user myself, I rarely need high levels of recharge in it anyway. But I also usually slot up Taunt more than I did in this build, where I just didn't have the slots for it.
I'm open to suggestions on what to delay to take Stone Skin and Minerals earlier. If I'm going to use Hover with TP it doesn't make much sense to wait until the 40s to take it when I got TP at 6.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
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Not on the Stone side; unfortunately I've never even rolled a Dark Melee toon, much less played it so anything I'd say there is theoretical. I wouldn't call the problems super serious although with your Granite slotting you're a fair bit less durable than you could be. You'll still be tougher than most tankers though.|
Originally Posted by Finduilas
Thanks, CMA! You didn't see any super-serious problems with the build other when I took Stone Skin and the slotting of Granite and Swift?
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Oh, I just noticed something... did you realize you slotted the Steadfast KB protection in Stone Skin? That's really a waste, Rooted has all the KB protection you'll ever need.
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| In some ways that makes it *harder*, 'cause I really wanted to take Stone Skin much earlier but couldn't figure out what to delay! Do you have a recommendation for what I delay until the 40's? I don't want to put a power there that needs to be heavily slotted because then I may not have enough for Gloom. |
I realize ToF is giving you a recharge bonus but I question just how useful the power itself is to you; as a stone tanker you really don't need the mitigation. I'm generally not a big fan of devoting a lot of slots for an IO mule power I'm not going to use, I'd leave the fear to your dark defender/illusion controller teammates... I think the slots and power choice are simply more useful elsewhere. That would let you move Stone Skin up and give you 4 slots to use in Granite & Swift. In place of ToF you could pick up Fly to use for zone travel. In fact that would allow you to drop Hover as well freeing another power slot. My solution for zone travel on a stone once I had City Traveler was simply to pick up Fly and use it instead of TP. TP I use strictly for combat mobility.
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| Similarly, I would love to put another slot or two in Swift and Granite, but as I mentioned, I ran into a serious slot crunch. Do you have a suggestion? I'm hesitant to pull slots from Gloom or ToF because I'd lose a pretty substantial recharge bonus if I do. (Hence my question about the relative value of recharge vs. run speed bonuses.) How important is it to slot Rooted for regen? I could probably pull a slot or two from it if I had to. |
On Rooted I think it's quite useful for regen... with your defenses and resistance the regen will usually keep you topped off on HP without needing Earth's Embrace. Oh, that Regen Tissue unique isn't doing a lot there; it's only active while Rooted is and the 4% runspeed bonus isn't that great. FYI adding another slot to Swift will give you ~12% more runspeed and adding 2 slots will give you ~20% more runspeed. I would probably put 3 Numina into Rooted, Heal, Heal/End and Heal/End/Recharge. If you find a 4th slot toss a Heal/End from another set to max regen and give more endred.
On my Stone/Fire tanker I called Mud Pots good with 4 slots of Scirocco's Dervish. With your goals I'd keep the three Eradication. You could loose one slot of Multi Strike and still have most of the effectiveness while giving you another precious slot to play with.
For a few ideas here's how my Stone/Fire currently sits on Live. I guess I was incorrect, apparently I did respec him for issue 19. I didn't worry all that much about recharge while still getting decent numbers.
Code:
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COH has just been murdered by NCSoft. http://www.change.org/petitions/ncso...city-of-heroes
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A recovery is just a situation where aggro needs to be gathered up quick, someone could of accidentally pulled, many variables really. I haven't and still haven't been able to download the build from my location so going on memory. Taunt just doesn't look slotted enough. When I come to upload it I'll see a better picture but I do have a taunt to recharge ratio I stick to, because less than that has proven not to cut it.
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Originally Posted by Finduilas
New Dawn, I'm not quite sure what you mean by "recoveries" but with Hasten up Taunt recharges in 4 seconds, without Hasten in 6. I'm not a heavy Taunt user myself, I rarely need high levels of recharge in it anyway. But I also usually slot up Taunt more than I did in this build, where I just didn't have the slots for it.
I'm open to suggestions on what to delay to take Stone Skin and Minerals earlier. If I'm going to use Hover with TP it doesn't make much sense to wait until the 40s to take it when I got TP at 6. |
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
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Yes, that was deliberate, my thinking was that it would give me some KB protection when out of Rooted. Given my slot crunch, I can see that's a luxury I can't afford, so it's going.|
Originally Posted by Call Me Awesome
Not on the Stone side; unfortunately I've never even rolled a Dark Melee toon, much less played it so anything I'd say there is theoretical. I wouldn't call the problems super serious although with your Granite slotting you're a fair bit less durable than you could be. You'll still be tougher than most tankers though.
Oh, I just noticed something... did you realize you slotted the Steadfast KB protection in Stone Skin? That's really a waste, Rooted has all the KB protection you'll ever need. |
Comparing our Granite numbers, the main difference I see is that there's about an 8-10 percentage points difference in resistance, and for defense you're higher on S/L and F/C, but lower on E/NE--assuming Weave running. I'm less concerned about the defense since I'm above the soft-cap for S/L/E/NE, but I can see adding another Aegis slot to Granite, since that will boost my resistance numbers a bit and also adds 3% F/C defense.
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| I skipped Crystal on my stone tankers and slotted Stone Skin in at 22, immediately after Stamina. Of course that was pre-issue 19. I had to do more pick and choose on attacks; in your case I'd give consideration to dropping possibly Smite or Touch of Fear. |
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| I realize ToF is giving you a recharge bonus but I question just how useful the power itself is to you; as a stone tanker you really don't need the mitigation. I'm generally not a big fan of devoting a lot of slots for an IO mule power I'm not going to use, I'd leave the fear to your dark defender/illusion controller teammates... I think the slots and power choice are simply more useful elsewhere. That would let you move Stone Skin up and give you 4 slots to use in Granite & Swift. In place of ToF you could pick up Fly to use for zone travel. In fact that would allow you to drop Hover as well freeing another power slot. My solution for zone travel on a stone once I had City Traveler was simply to pick up Fly and use it instead of TP. TP I use strictly for combat mobility. |
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Recharge is certainly useful, but I'd think that it's less so than more movement in Swift and better slotting in Granite. It's a trade off that can be argued either way. To an extent you can regain recharge by the Spiritual Alpha slot but of course that requires you to first get to 50. On Rooted I think it's quite useful for regen... with your defenses and resistance the regen will usually keep you topped off on HP without needing Earth's Embrace. Oh, that Regen Tissue unique isn't doing a lot there; it's only active while Rooted is and the 4% runspeed bonus isn't that great. FYI adding another slot to Swift will give you ~12% more runspeed and adding 2 slots will give you ~20% more runspeed. I would probably put 3 Numina into Rooted, Heal, Heal/End and Heal/End/Recharge. If you find a 4th slot toss a Heal/End from another set to max regen and give more endred. |
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| On my Stone/Fire tanker I called Mud Pots good with 4 slots of Scirocco's Dervish. With your goals I'd keep the three Eradication. You could loose one slot of Multi Strike and still have most of the effectiveness while giving you another precious slot to play with. |
Thanks so much for your help, I really appreciate it!
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Alright Finduilas, I had chance to look at ya build thru Mids. In granite Haste is down for 47s according to my Mids.
With haste "off" taunt recharges in 10s, you cast in 1.67s, roughly add arcana/reflex that tallies to 11.8s.
Under my extensive testing with taunt which includes Scrappers taunting lvl54s and what not I have come to my own taunt:rechg ratio which holds me in good confident steed that I can keep aggro off of non taunters despite being placated, terrified, resistances to taunt, the list goes on. That ratio is 10:1
So when I see 11.8s I'd either want 118s of taunt duration or reduce my rechg which is better for recoveries and easier with set usage.
Another thing I see is a lot of runspeed bonuses, if poss I would of added a slot or two to swift as it might do more. The 4% runspeed setting in Rooted would definitely get changed to something else. 3 Numinas and that +regen IO perhaps would go in health so its in a passive.
Edit: Also just noticed ya sig:
On Justice:
Arson Angel - lv 50 Fire/EA Brute
Silvershock - lv 29 SS/ELA Brute
Silverslash - lv 50 Spines/DA Scrapper
Watcher's Hand - lv 50 Inv/Mace Tank
Watcher's Wrath - lv 50 Inv/EM Tank
Watcher's Twilight - lv 41 DA/Mace Tank
I'm on Justice too now muahaha *coughs, splutters, spits*
He will honor his words; he will definitely carry out his actions. What he promises he will fulfill. He does not care about his bodily self, putting his life and death aside to come forward for another's troubled besiegement. He does not boast about his ability, or shamelessly extol his own virtues. - Sima Qian.
As I mentioned in my previous thread, I decided to make a Stone/DM tank for the TT today on Union. I did so, and got him to level 13--huzzah!
So, as a Stone tank newbie, I've got a few questions. I see that I have three major debuffs to try to offset; run speed in Rooted and Granite and recharge speed and damage in Granite. How would veteran Stone tanks prioritize those in terms of which to offset first or most? I put together a build that does pretty well offsetting the run speed and recharge debuffs, but does almost nothing for the damage debuff. Should that be adequate?
I decided that I'd DON'T want to be Granite only, so my build has soft-capped S/L/E/NE without Granite. I also took Minerals for Psi damage, which means the only big weakness will be fire and cold damage outside of Granite. These are new sets for me, so I'd really appreciate some feedback; I found this combo to be one of the most difficult I've done slot-wise, I could have easily used 10 more slots!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.942
http://www.cohplanner.com/
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Level 50 Mutation Tanker
Primary Power Set: Stone Armor
Secondary Power Set: Dark Melee
Power Pool: Teleportation
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Rock Armor -- GftotA-Run+:40(A), GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(3), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(3), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(5)
Level 1: Shadow Punch -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:30(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:30(9), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:30(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(15), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(17)
Level 2: Earth's Embrace -- Dct'dW-Heal/EndRdx:50(A), Dct'dW-EndRdx/Rchg:50(5), Dct'dW-Heal/Rchg:50(7), Dct'dW-Heal:50(7), Dct'dW-Rchg:50(9)
Level 4: Shadow Maul -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(17), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(19), Sciroc-Dmg/EndRdx:50(19), Sciroc-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(21)
Level 6: Teleport -- TSM'n-Rng:50(A)
Level 8: Rooted -- RgnTis-Regen+:30(A), RgnTis-Heal/EndRdx:30(43), Numna-Heal:50(43), Numna-Heal/EndRdx:50(45)
Level 10: Mud Pots -- Erad-Dmg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(11), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(11), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(13), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(13)
Level 12: Taunt -- Zinger-Dam%:50(A)
Level 14: Hover -- LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(A)
Level 16: Siphon Life -- C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg:50(A), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx:50(29), C'ngImp-Dmg/Rchg:50(29), C'ngImp-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(31), C'ngImp-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(31)
Level 18: Smite -- S'ngH'mkr-Acc/Dmg:35(A), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx:35(21), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/Rchg:35(25), S'ngH'mkr-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(27), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(27)
Level 20: Touch of Fear -- Abys-Acc/Rchg:50(A), Abys-Dam%:50(37), Abys-EndRdx/Fear:50(46), Abys-Acc/EndRdx:50(46), Abys-Acc/Fear/Rchg:50(46)
Level 22: Crystal Armor -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Run+:40(23), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(23), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(25)
Level 24: Hasten -- RechRdx-I:50(A), RechRdx-I:50(45), RechRdx-I:50(45)
Level 26: Boxing -- Acc-I:50(A)
Level 28: Soul Drain -- Oblit-Dmg:50(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg:50(31), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:50(33), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(33)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam:50(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(34), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg:50(34), S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+:30(34)
Level 32: Granite Armor -- GftotA-Run+:40(A), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(36), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(36), Aegis-ResDam:50(36)
Level 35: Dark Consumption -- Erad-Dmg/Rchg:30(A), Erad-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:30(37), Erad-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:30(39), M'Strk-Dmg/EndRdx:50(39), M'Strk-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx:50(39)
Level 38: Midnight Grasp -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg:35(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx:35(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg:35(40), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:35(40), Mako-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg:50(42)
Level 41: Weave -- GftotA-Def/EndRdx:40(A), GftotA-Run+:40(42), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx:50(42), LkGmblr-Rchg+:50(43)
Level 44: Gloom -- Decim-Acc/Dmg:40(A), Decim-Dmg/EndRdx:40(48), Decim-Dmg/Rchg:40(50), Decim-Acc/Dmg/Rchg:40(50), Decim-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg:40(50)
Level 47: Stone Skin -- S'fstPrt-ResKB:30(A), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx:50(48), Aegis-ResDam:50(48)
Level 49: Minerals -- GftotA-Run+:40(A)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Gauntlet
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth:50(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I:50(A)
Level 2: Health -- Numna-Regen/Rcvry+:50(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I:50(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod:50(A), P'Shift-End%:50(37)
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Set Bonus Totals:
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012