Storm Summoning Guide excerpt for feedback(Tornado)


Amy_Amp

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draggynn View Post
AVs have a KB protection of 100, not 50 and it does not go away when purple triangles drop. There is an odd artifact that right before the purple triangles come back up they lose this protection for a second or so (so if you manage to KB an AV, that's likely what you're seeing: not sufficient stacking and timing of Tornado and Gale, but rather that second when the AV has no KB protection at all.)

Also, in the real numbers KB resistance is not reported anywhere, but it appears that at least the AVs I tested also have KB resistance on the order of the 85% resistance that they have to other debuffs, so KBing most AVs is not a viable option. Now there may be some AVs that have lower KB protection (I know that Romulus has low or no repel protection), but in general this will not work.
Hmmm. This is setting up a conflict with the recorded data at Paragonwiki.
Quote:
Purple Triangles
As reported by Castle, the mez protection during the "triangles up" period adds 50 magnitude (stacking with inherent protection and any possible toggles or buffs), and covers Hold, Knockback, Confuse, Repel, Disorient, and Fear effects, but does not cover Sleep nor Immobilize effects. During the "triangles down" period it is 3 for Archvillains and Heroes, the same as a typical boss, and 6 for Elite Bosses, the same as a regular Elite Boss.
This is recorded on Paragon Wiki as being Archvillain Resistance.
Quote:
Archvillain Resistance
This power provides the following resistances during its "triangles up" period:
  • 90.0% Knockup Resistance
  • 90.0% Knockback Resistance
  • 90.0% Repel Resistance
  • 50.0 Terrorize Protection
  • 50.0 Disorient Protection
  • 50.0 Hold Protection
  • 50.0 Confuse Protection
  • 50.0 Knockup Protection
  • 50.0 Knockback Protection
  • 50.0 Repel Protection
It should be noted that the Knock Resist+Protection is only active when PToD are UP. Archvillains (and Heroes) do not get a Passive Resistance against Knock(any), nor against Repel, meaning that with PToD DOWN they can be Knocked around by Gale alone, no need for Tornado (or extra enhancement by Kinetic Crash).

So basically we'd need somewhere around Mag 560(!) in order to Knock an AV during PToD UP. 10% of 560 is Mag 56, which is enough to overcome Knock Protection ... assuming no one has thrown an Immobilize/Hold with anti-KB properties. Okay ... yeah ... this is looking non-feasible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Draggynn View Post
There was no mention of KB sets in the guide because I don't think that those are intelligent slotting options so they were intentionally omitted for that reason. But thank you for raising the question. I will likely include the above explanation in the final guide in case there are other inquisitive minds that wonder.
Kinetic Crash or Force Feedback 6-slotted in Gale seems to be a rather viable possibility, for those who have the slots (and the power pick) to spare for it. I've got Gravitic Emanation 6-slotted with Kinetic Crash on my Warshade (think Gale with shorter range, (much) narrower cone and longer recharge, but with Mag 3 Stun) and I can use it to "knockabout" Cimerorans who have put up their shield protection. And since Gale has only "token" damage production, the lower damage enhancement of Knockback Sets on Gale is not really a problem. The only real strike against using Knockback Sets in Gale is that they tend to be light on Accuracy, and Gale needs Accuracy ... although you can build to "work around" that problem using set bonuses and +To Hit modifiers (such as Tactics in Leadership).

But yeah ... it's starting to look like the only "useful" things that you can slot into Tornado are Damage, Endurance Reduction and Recharge (and Procs, if you want to do that). Unfortunately, I don't think there are any Dam/End/Rech IOs available anywhere in any of the sets you have access to for Tornado ... are there?


It's the end. But the moment has been prepared for ...

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Redlynne View Post
Hmmm. This is setting up a conflict with the recorded data at Paragonwiki.
Quote:
Purple Triangles
As reported by Castle, the mez protection during the "triangles up" period adds 50 magnitude (stacking with inherent protection and any possible toggles or buffs), and covers Hold, Knockback, Confuse, Repel, Disorient, and Fear effects, but does not cover Sleep nor Immobilize effects. During the "triangles down" period it is 3 for Archvillains and Heroes, the same as a typical boss, and 6 for Elite Bosses, the same as a regular Elite Boss.
This is recorded on Paragon Wiki as being Archvillain Resistance.
Quote:
Archvillain Resistance
This power provides the following resistances during its "triangles up" period:
90.0% Knockup Resistance
90.0% Knockback Resistance
90.0% Repel Resistance
50.0 Terrorize Protection
50.0 Disorient Protection
50.0 Hold Protection
50.0 Confuse Protection
50.0 Knockup Protection
50.0 Knockback Protection
50.0 Repel Protection
It should be noted that the Knock Resist+Protection is only active when PToD are UP. Archvillains (and Heroes) do not get a Passive Resistance against Knock(any), nor against Repel, meaning that with PToD DOWN they can be Knocked around by Gale alone, no need for Tornado (or extra enhancement by Kinetic Crash).

So basically we'd need somewhere around Mag 560(!) in order to Knock an AV during PToD UP. 10% of 560 is Mag 56, which is enough to overcome Knock Protection ... assuming no one has thrown an Immobilize/Hold with anti-KB properties. Okay ... yeah ... this is looking non-feasible.
Just to be absolutely clear to anyone who is reading this, THIS IS WRONG!!!

That is something I have found time and time again when writing this guide is that the wiki cannot be relied on 100%. It is important to remember that it is a player resource and is therefore often 1) lacking information (for example when I was writing this guide, I don't believe that the wiki had any information about the inherent to-hit debuff resistance that enemies have related to rank) or 2) formerly correct but slow to change with an update as in the case of the Force Feedback proc or Aegis proc which has been reworked many times. (which I believe are now correct once again).

Although the wiki is a great resource, rather than just relying on it, I would encourage you to go out and test against several AVs. It's possilbe that all of the AVs I tested against (mostly lvl 50 Council AVs, but also the LGTF AVs, and Romulus) are unique in this but I doubt it.

All of the AVs that I tested in AE have 100 (NOT 50) Knockback protection with 90% (That part actually seems accurate, rather than the 85% I suggested before.) KB resistance as part of their "resistance power" (which is usually purple triangles...however...). This number (as with the 100 point repel resistance) seems unrelated to the purple triangles and never goes down (except for about 1 second before the purple triangles come back up when the protection goes to 0). It's possible that the KB protection is related to the purple triangles and that the duration of the KB protection is just set too long (thus the artifact of the second where it goes to zero). But right now, the above quoted description is NOT how KB protection for AVs works. You will actually need over 1000 points of KB to knockback an AV, and not just when purple triangles are up.

If you can find an AV that actually has 50 points of KB protection related to the purple triangles please let me know, but for now I'm going to assume that what I've seen is pretty consistent across all AVs.

Quote:
Kinetic Crash or Force Feedback 6-slotted in Gale seems to be a rather viable possibility, for those who have the slots (and the power pick) to spare for it.
And you'll note that in the Gale section of the guide, there is indeed mention of those two sets as possible options.


Draggynn on Virtue: lvl 50 Storm/Psi, 1389 badges
Draggynn's Guide to Storm Summoning(Gale-Tornado, updated 6/25/2011)
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