A new trial idea with random elements.
Even randomized encounters can get boring. Especially if said encounters were very shallow, which is what this sounds like it could be given the requirements of slotting in so many disparate elements at random. The same problem exists for newspaper missions.
On the flipside, if this randomized encounter concept is incredibly detailed and involved, say goodbye to any chance of a public raid team managing to handle it.
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Even randomized encounters can get boring. Especially if said encounters were very shallow, which is what this sounds like it could be given the requirements of slotting in so many disparate elements at random. The same problem exists for newspaper missions.
On the flipside, if this randomized encounter concept is incredibly detailed and involved, say goodbye to any chance of a public raid team managing to handle it. |
I wouldn't plan on them making anything shallow for this, there is a ton of lore out there for developement to use to bring something like this to fruition. The only thing random about newspaper missions is one thing, which mission you get. Thats not innovative. Having new game elements, new temp powers, new maps, all occur randomly within a trial is much more interesting than picking a mission at random.
It might be difficult for a raid team to handle, but so were the other trials when they first launched. Now that we have incarnate abilities, and more powers on the way, it would be just hard enough to make it interesting, without the headaches of things like prisoners escaping, or a time limit to getting the required temp powers that cause you to fail it. Keep an open mind. Thanks for the input.
Edit: I could specify more detail and depth for each random element, but I would rather leave that kind of thing to the develpoement team. This is just an idea to get someones motor running.
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With how the writing's been going so far concerning the whole Incarnate plot, I wouldn't necessarily bet on that. And then it wouldn't feel shallow so much as contrived. Either way, I wasn't referring to the story justification, but the gameplay.
I wouldn't plan on them making anything shallow for this, there is a ton of lore out there for developement to use to bring something like this to fruition.
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The only thing random about newspaper missions is one thing, which mission you get. Thats not innovative. Having new game elements, new temp powers, new maps, all occur randomly within a trial is much more interesting than picking a mission at random. |
And from what it sounds like, this trial brings nothing unique other than its randomness. That's not a compelling hook.
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It might be difficult for a raid team to handle, but so were the other trials when they first launched. |
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Now that we have incarnate abilities, and more powers on the way, it would be just hard enough to make it interesting, without the headaches of things like prisoners escaping, or a time limit to getting the required temp powers that cause you to fail it. |
All this is personal opinion, granted. So I'll also break down the technical side of things.
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5 possible Temp Power objectives |
And how large would these sub-maps be? While they wouldn't be drawn all at once thanks to being placed underground like other sub-maps presumably, I worry if having five such maps of appreciable size, hidden or not, possibly causing a performance issue. Though speaking of, having to place five sub-maps inside of every possible main raid map would be a bit of work.
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5 possible Enemy group encounters |
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14 possible AV encounters |
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16 possible GM encounters |
Also, of that list of 16, problems arise:
- For obvious reasons, Sally should not be part of that group.
- Unless you're fighting in the water or near the water, Lusca should not be part of that spawn group.
- Similarly, if you're nowhere near Sharkhead, Ghost of Scrapyard.
- Kraken is pretty remarkably underpowered for an GM, to the point where he's soloable, if I'm not mistaken.
- I'd have similar concerns for Paladin and Babbage.
That's my other lingering problem, anyway: "And then an AV attacks!" is honestly quite the non-threat to a team of eight, let alone a full league, and even moreso thanks to all of the Incarnate goodies. The whole reason for complex mission goals are to actually challenge Incarnates and justify giving them so many crazy, unique powers.
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I enjoy the incarnate plots, the well of furies, and how much we have yet to see is all very interesting to me. I think they are doing a good job.
With how the writing's been going so far concerning the whole Incarnate plot, I wouldn't necessarily bet on that. And then it wouldn't feel shallow so much as contrived. Either way, I wasn't referring to the story justification, but the gameplay.
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And from what it sounds like, this trial brings nothing unique other than its randomness. That's not a compelling hook.
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I still get raid teams that don't understand "check temp power list; use acids on portals". My point is that depending on how it's designed, you're either making it too dull for me or too hard for them.
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Case in point. Tower defense CoH was one of the more interesting things they've done, and it might very well be my favorite part of the BAF, horrible server-choking lag aside.
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I like the idea of using different methods of acquisition for each one, but how are these distributed across the league? Does everyone get to summon Statesman or just whoever frees him?
And how large would these sub-maps be? While they wouldn't be drawn all at once thanks to being placed underground like other sub-maps presumably, I worry if having five such maps of appreciable size, hidden or not, possibly causing a performance issue. Though speaking of, having to place five sub-maps inside of every possible main raid map would be a bit of work. Which five groups? Why are the Praetorians working with non-Praetorian groups? This part is fine, I guess. But would these be the basic AV versions or the souped-up TF/raid versions? Why would these guys be getting involved in the first place? It'd be one thing if for some reason the raid is taking place in Dark Astoria and you bump into Adamastor, but it's random... Also, of that list of 16, problems arise: - For obvious reasons, Sally should not be part of that group. - Unless you're fighting in the water or near the water, Lusca should not be part of that spawn group. - Similarly, if you're nowhere near Sharkhead, Ghost of Scrapyard. - Kraken is pretty remarkably underpowered for an GM, to the point where he's soloable, if I'm not mistaken. - I'd have similar concerns for Paladin and Babbage. That's my other lingering problem, anyway: "And then an AV attacks!" is honestly quite the non-threat to a team of eight, let alone a full league, and even moreso thanks to all of the Incarnate goodies. The whole reason for complex mission goals are to actually challenge Incarnates and justify giving them so many crazy, unique powers. |
This is just an idea man, I am not dead set on any of the specifics. I was just giving examples so people could understand. If there are better ways to randomize things inside the trial I would be open to that. I just think a trial would be more interesting, and a little more fun to repeat if they weren't the same everytime. Yes eventually it would get boring, like everything else, if you do it enough times it will get boring. But if it isn't the same everytime, it would take longer to get boring.
Thanks for the feedback though.
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I was thinking about how the incarnate trials and other things in the game can get a little boring after running them over and over. So I was trying to figure out a way to make something fun and interesting to run multiple times everyday and not get stale as quickly. The best way I could think of is add random elements to a trial or maybe eventually to missions.
One of my favorite tabletop games is Avalon Hill's newly remade Betrayal at House on the Hill. Betrayal had a fantastic random encounter dynamic that would cause the final objectives of the game to change depending on a couple different triggers. What room that player was in, and what card the character drew would be combined to determine what encounter was triggered.
This game could benefit from random elements like that to make a trial with changing objectives and encounters that could be different several ways everytime you play it. Such random elements could be:
Random objectives to obtain certain temp powers. Upon the start of a trial one random objective is selected from a list of 5 possibilities. Each objective is located behind a different door, with a different map. All other doors would be considered locked or unavailable. Some objectives could be destroy objects (like the Lambda) others could be glowie clicks or rescues (not escort) NPCs or defeat mobs. The temp power would be something that could benefit the team against any future threat in the trial. These could be attack powers, buffs, debuffs, spawn Hero/Villain class allies (Statesman, Lord Recluse etc.). Unlike the Lambda temps which only do one of two things, acids to destroy portals, or debuff Marauders enrage. This would have to be things that are versitile to benefit in any random situation.
Random enemy encounters. One of five different enemy types that the league could encounter as they exit the building from the Temp Power buildings. They could ambush your league, spawn in the map or attack a building to destroy it or steal something powerful to use against you. Basically any type of attack or objective that an enemy group could pursue in any mission or zone event could be one of the five possibilities. These could happen once or multiple times during a trial.
Random AV or GM encounters. One of any of the 14 Praetorian AVs to attack your league or any of the 16 GMs listed here http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Giant_Mo...Giant_Monsters, or even one of each.
With this type of a set up:
5 possible Temp Power objectives
5 possible Enemy group encounters
14 possible AV encounters
16 possible GM encounters
A trial could have 5600 different combinations of events. (5x5x14x16)
There are still other ways of randomizing the trial:
Different archetypes that are missing from the league could trigger a certain ally that would balance out the team.
Where the trial is cueued from could possibly trigger different maps, all outdoor maps with doors that would lead to one of your 5 temp power objective maps. These could be modified existing maps, or even a few new Praetorian maps made specially for the trial.
Different alignments that are on the league could trigger one of 4 (hero, villain, rogue, vigilante) different maps randomly.
These random things could all be generated at the start of the trial, or certain random things at the start of the trial could trigger other random elements after the start like dominos.
I am sure there are plenty of other possibilities that I haven't thought of yet. But the basic idea would remain the same, a combination of different random events with different ways to trigger these random possibilities would result in a trial that is innovatiove to the game and fun to run multiple times.
Please feel free to comment on things you like, dislike, or other ideas you would use instead, but please be gentle when criticizing. Betrayal had a very extensive errata clearing up certain issues becauase of all of the different possibilities it had, and also because of some descriptions that were vague or unclear. So I understand that this may be too complex, it is unlike any trial or mission in the game. But think of it this way, Mission Architect was unlike anything in the game. And safeguard/mayhem missions utilized many unique aspects in the game as well. There are currently a few randomly generated elements in the game, spawn points for glowies/objects/NPCs, Mystic Fortune and Secondary Mutation. So I am open to the idea that this is possible.
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