Level Range Discussion


Coulomb2

 

Posted

I have two arcs that both use Security Guards as a villain group; the Guards are, by default, levels 30-40. This sticks out as a sore thumb since all the other missions in both arcs go up to 54, so I've tried to keep the missions with Guards in them short and simple.

Someone posted this morning that I could easily make one of the arcs in question a level 40 cap throughout. It's a decent idea. Alternating level caps between missions looks sloppy in terms of writing.

However, I can see various sides.

Option 1: Leave it as-is.
Pros: Don't have to edit the arcs. Players can have a feeling of "powering up" after the first mission (if that's how they want to view it) since they're allowed to use their upper level stuff after the first mission is over.
Cons: Security Guards STILL stick out like a sore thumb. It's not just that I want a group with guns. It's that Security Guards make SENSE where they're used in both arcs. (Will come back to this shortly!)

Option 2: Edit the rest of the arcs to cap at 40.
Pros: Easy fix that means players won't have to deal with upper-end bad guys. Allows for consistency throughout (granted, if you have a level 30-40 character running the arcs, nothing changes).
Cons: Many players don't LIKE losing powers and/or set bonuses when they have to drop down to run on a team or mission, which means they might not run the arc if they would lose powers and/or set bonuses.

Option 3: Create an alternate group to replace Security Guards.
Pros: Can set the level ranges, powers, and group consistency to whatever I like.
Cons: Custom groups are tricky to balance and aggravating to design.

Option 4: Use a different group from Security Guards.
Pros: Get the level range to match the rest.
Cons: Muddles up the story by introducing a possibly unrelated faction.

From a story perspective, leaving the cap at level 40 versus Security Guards can make sense: these guys are paid workers doing their jobs. They're not Crey's elite operatives. They might be average dudes in bad situations taking jobs they can find; thus, a hero might go a little easier on them, and a villain might not think they're worth the full extent of his/her powers. That way, when the heroes/villains get into the later missions and have to deal with Crey and others, they decide to cut loose against the real threats.

What do you folks think?


I'm out of signature space! Arcs by Tubbius of Justice are HERE: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218177

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubbius View Post
I have two arcs that both use Security Guards as a villain group; the Guards are, by default, levels 30-40. This sticks out as a sore thumb since all the other missions in both arcs go up to 54, so I've tried to keep the missions with Guards in them short and simple.

Someone posted this morning that I could easily make one of the arcs in question a level 40 cap throughout. It's a decent idea. Alternating level caps between missions looks sloppy in terms of writing.

However, I can see various sides.

Option 1: Leave it as-is.
Pros: Don't have to edit the arcs. Players can have a feeling of "powering up" after the first mission (if that's how they want to view it) since they're allowed to use their upper level stuff after the first mission is over.
Cons: Security Guards STILL stick out like a sore thumb. It's not just that I want a group with guns. It's that Security Guards make SENSE where they're used in both arcs. (Will come back to this shortly!)

Option 2: Edit the rest of the arcs to cap at 40.
Pros: Easy fix that means players won't have to deal with upper-end bad guys. Allows for consistency throughout (granted, if you have a level 30-40 character running the arcs, nothing changes).
Cons: Many players don't LIKE losing powers and/or set bonuses when they have to drop down to run on a team or mission, which means they might not run the arc if they would lose powers and/or set bonuses.

Option 3: Create an alternate group to replace Security Guards.
Pros: Can set the level ranges, powers, and group consistency to whatever I like.
Cons: Custom groups are tricky to balance and aggravating to design.

Option 4: Use a different group from Security Guards.
Pros: Get the level range to match the rest.
Cons: Muddles up the story by introducing a possibly unrelated faction.

From a story perspective, leaving the cap at level 40 versus Security Guards can make sense: these guys are paid workers doing their jobs. They're not Crey's elite operatives. They might be average dudes in bad situations taking jobs they can find; thus, a hero might go a little easier on them, and a villain might not think they're worth the full extent of his/her powers. That way, when the heroes/villains get into the later missions and have to deal with Crey and others, they decide to cut loose against the real threats.

What do you folks think?
There's actually an Option 5 and 6:

Option 5:
Go ahead and set the mission to cap at 50. IIRC, the security guards will still spawn in at level 40 (so they'll con grey to anyone running at 43+, and give no xp to anyone running at 45+).
Pros: If you want to get across that the security guards are not even remotely a threat, and will just flat out refuse to pick a fight with your character if they're high enough level, this'll work. It's *possible* players will swallow it if the mission is short enough.
Cons: I can already see the "your first mission is broken" tells...
Not a great option, but technically it *is* an option.

Option 6:
Same as your option 3, but keep the ordinary security guards in your alternate group, adding "custom" security guards to fill the 40-50 gap.
Pros: The arc will still include the 'normal' security guards if the player happens to be between levels 30-40 (note that I don't know what the actual level range of the arc is, though), and will use the customs for players higher than that.
Cons: Like Option 3, its a lot of work to do it well (might want to create multiple versions of each minion or lt that have the same power sets, but different faces, hairstyles, so your custom group doesn't look like a bunch of clones), and you'll be getting your customs mixed in with real security guards in the 30-40 range. But since it's very likely your customs will be a bit stronger than the real security guards, that does at least potentially make things a tad easier if the player really is in the 30-40 range. The other obvious "con" is that if your arc's range is 40-54, this suggestion is totally worthless.

My preference, if I were in your shoes would be option 3 (or if applicable) option 6. Just my two cents.


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Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice! )
Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)

 

Posted

This is really a matter of personal taste, but since you are asking, here are my two inf. (Note: all purely my opinion, your mileage may vary.)


The answer depends on the overall "power level" that your arc is targeted for. If your arc is about world conquerors, alien invasions, dimensional travel, etc., then it should probably cap at level 50. If your arc is about organized crime, corrupt cops, gang violence, etc., it should probably cap at some level below 50.

Another way to look at this would be, what are the enemies that you're fighting in the non-Security Guard missions? Since all your other missions go up to 54, I imagine they are custom groups, but the theme of the custom groups might help you decide. If you think your custom groups are most like Family or Crey, maybe level 40 is an appropriate level cap for your arc. If your custom groups are more like Rikti or Rularuu, then level 50 would make more sense.

Hope that helps!


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TALOS - PW war journal - alternate contact tree using MA story arcs
=VICE= "Give me Liberty, or give me debt!"

 

Posted

Thanks, Coulomb2. I've had Option 5 come up mistakenly before, and even I didn't dig going through waves of grays just to beat a mission. I'd forgotten about Option 6 for the most part.

And PW, the other groups are Crey and Winter Horde (in PENGUIN) and Crey, Winter Horde, and a smattering of 5th Column (in PENGUIN Part 2). No customs other than a couple of bosses here and there. Level 40 would work in terms of power levels and "grand, epic feel" or not.

I've gone through and capped PENGUIN and PENGUIN Part 2: Waddle's Revenge at 40 across the board for now. I'm going to see how they play in the next day or two and go from there. If they work, they'll stay that way for now; if not, then I'll readjust.

My one remaining concern is how this interacts with PENGUIN Part 3: Waddle to the Big Top. That's all Carnies straight for 3 missions. It mostly stands on its own, having minimal connection to the first two parts of the PENGUIN Trilogy (as it's known), but a level 40 coming off Part 2 wanting to play Part 3 is going to have an uphill fight all the way. . . . Then again, so will some fifties! Out of curiosity, what are Carnies like at level 40?

HOWEVER, I still want to hear folks' inputs on this! Please continue!


I'm out of signature space! Arcs by Tubbius of Justice are HERE: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=218177

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tubbius View Post
And PW, the other groups are Crey and Winter Horde (in PENGUIN) and Crey, Winter Horde, and a smattering of 5th Column (in PENGUIN Part 2). No customs other than a couple of bosses here and there. Level 40 would work in terms of power levels and "grand, epic feel" or not.
Yeah, this arc is not epic in feel at all. As a "Crey is doing bad stuff again" arc, it fits beautifully into the level 30-40 range. That's the range into which most of the canon "stop Crey from doing bad stuff" arcs fall. At 40-45 you're taking down Crey, and after 45 it's just the Crey "elite" who managed to avoid being taken down by some level 40-45 guy doing REALLY bad stuff.

Quote:
My one remaining concern is how this interacts with PENGUIN Part 3: Waddle to the Big Top. That's all Carnies straight for 3 missions. It mostly stands on its own, having minimal connection to the first two parts of the PENGUIN Trilogy (as it's known), but a level 40 coming off Part 2 wanting to play Part 3 is going to have an uphill fight all the way. . . . Then again, so will some fifties! Out of curiosity, what are Carnies like at level 40?
The Carnies we know and love start at 40. That's the lowest level for Master Illusionists. It's the level heroes are first introduced to them in canon missions. However, lower level Carnies now spawn properly for heroes, and they're easier at lower levels, so you could set the arc to 30-54 and have it perfectly playable by anyone who is within the range for the first two.


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