Fix broken Ion Judgement using the oldest bugfix in the book


Arbegla

 

Posted

"It's not a bug, it's a feature!"

Ion Judgement has a bug where its jumps from the primary target are affected by damage buffs. That makes it quite a bit stronger than other Judgements, but even without that it still has a big problem: it's possible, and in fact very likely, for enemies to get hit by multiple jumps from the same casting, multiplying the damage they take.

In the very likely event that the second bug can't be fixed, why not use the adage at the beginning of the post as the paradigm for the solution? Make the chance for multiple jumps an integral part of the power. Get rid of the chance to crit in the Core varieties and make the draw for that side be an extra jump (for 4 jumps instead of 3), increasing the chance for multiple hits on the same enemy compared to the Radial branch. Reduce the damage of the individual jumps to keep it closer to other Judgements, and you have Ion Judgement no longer leaps and bounds ahead of the others.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
In the very likely event that the second bug can't be fixed...
Already fixed on test.


 

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I still think they should make all of the judgement powers benefit from buffs. Whether its team buffs or self buffs. Having an immensely powerful nuke is fun stuff. With it already having a longer activation time and pyro and the others and pyro having a near instant activation time, I'm not sure if its gonna be worth using anymore if they are nerfing the multiple jumps.

That's a serious damage nerf and it already sucks if the you happen to hit a minion or lieutenant first and someone kills them and the power misses everything entirely.


Friends don't let friends buy an ncsoft controlled project.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
Already fixed on test.
No, that would be the first bug, the jumps being affected by damage buffs, which I specifically mentioned so that when I said "broken Ion Judgement" people would know that wasn't what I was talking about.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanden View Post
No, that would be the first bug, the jumps being affected by damage buffs, which I specifically mentioned so that when I said "broken Ion Judgement" people would know that wasn't what I was talking about.
Unless I misunderstand the power each jump had a chance to fail, the ability to hit a previous target is not a concern.

After the buff issue is live there will be no issue with Ion as it may hit more targets, hit the same target a few times, or stop jumping all together.

I'm just wondering if the jump time is low enough to allow it to hit a target who is already going to be dead thus wasting a jump all together.

Outside of that random is as random does sometimes Ion will hit more sometimes it will hit less.


 

Posted

Whats happening with Ion isn't a bug, as it can't bounce between 2 targets indefinitely. Whats happening is how the chain powers are designed. It happens with Chain induction sometimes with 3 targets.

See, you hit Ion 2 targets, starting with Target A, and it bounces to Target B, and its coded to not bounce back to target A. Chain ends., Hits 2 targets.

Now, you hit Ion on 3 targets, starting with target A, and it bounces to Target B, and as it can't jump to target A, it jumps to target C. Now, from Target C, it can bounce back to target A, and from target A it can bounce to target B again, and just repeats, hitting the max number of 'targets' over the 3 targets.

I've seen chain induction do the same thing, until it hits its 5 target max. Ion just has such a higher target cap, that it can bounce for quite some time.


 

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I see I'm gonna have to lay some knowledge down. Fair enough.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LISAR View Post
Unless I misunderstand the power each jump had a chance to fail, the ability to hit a previous target is not a concern.

After the buff issue is live there will be no issue with Ion as it may hit more targets, hit the same target a few times, or stop jumping all together.

I'm just wondering if the jump time is low enough to allow it to hit a target who is already going to be dead thus wasting a jump all together.

Outside of that random is as random does sometimes Ion will hit more sometimes it will hit less.
Then you do misunderstand the power, because the jumps CANNOT fail. Ion Judgement does not work the same as other chaining powers. Every jump is autohit, then after the jump a tohit check is done about a half second later on each target hit to see if they take damage. Even if that ToHit check fails and the target doesn't get affected by the power, the target was still hit by a jump, and if it's possible it jumped to another target before the check even happened.

As for the damage, it should be self-evident, even blisteringly obvious, that enemies getting hit by multiple jumps is not as designed for the power. Each hit does exactly the same amount of damage as the other three Judgements, with a possible crit on top of that. When you have 4 powers with identical crafting costs, end costs, and recharge times, and 3 of the powers do exactly the same amount of damage on individual targets while one of them has a chance to do two or three times that, that's what we in the biz call "there's absolutely no way that's how it's meant to be."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arbegla View Post
Whats happening with Ion isn't a bug, as it can't bounce between 2 targets indefinitely. Whats happening is how the chain powers are designed. It happens with Chain induction sometimes with 3 targets.

See, you hit Ion 2 targets, starting with Target A, and it bounces to Target B, and its coded to not bounce back to target A. Chain ends., Hits 2 targets.

Now, you hit Ion on 3 targets, starting with target A, and it bounces to Target B, and as it can't jump to target A, it jumps to target C. Now, from Target C, it can bounce back to target A, and from target A it can bounce to target B again, and just repeats, hitting the max number of 'targets' over the 3 targets.
That's one theory for why the multiple damage happens. However if it were the case, the primary target (the guy you targeted to use the power) would occasionally take double or more damage, something I've literally never seen happen. Here's my theory for why multiplied damage happens:

Here we have your average group of four enemies.


You choose one for your target (in blue) and Ion Judgement jumps to every enemy in range (the blue circle).


The first jump completed, the second jump now starts from every enemy hit by the first jump (in blue).


You may notice that the primary target (in red) and the fourth enemy are both in range of two jumps. The primary target was marked "not jump-to-able" last CPU cycle, so it isn't considered. However, the fourth enemy was not, and both jumps consider it a valid target. Since it can't be marked an invalid target until it's been jumped to, both jumps happen. At that point it's marked invalid, but both jumps have already happened and can damage the fourth target.

Jumps from Ion happen literally as soon as the server can handle it. It's necessary to do it like this so it can stay competitive with the traditional AoE Judgements despite its unique targeting method. Ion is already a slow-activating power that we really only tolerate because it has this issue and can do so much more damage than the other Judgements, so delaying the power further might not be feasible.

It's also possible that delaying secondary jumps so they happen one at a time might not be technically possible. Going back to the diagrams above, the first jump (fig. 2) happens as a PBAoE from the primary target. This means it's ONE power activation from the primary target, and each secondary target is hit with exactly the same power. Both jumps in fig. 3 are two identical copies of the same power, so there's no way for them to tell which of them should be delayed a cycle so the fourth target can be jumped to and marked invalid by the other.

It's with this theory of the workings of Ion Judgement that I suggest the change to the power's workings.

Quote:
I've seen chain induction do the same thing, until it hits its 5 target max. Ion just has such a higher target cap, that it can bounce for quite some time.
Chain Induction's jumps are slower, and the marking as "invalid for a jump" lasts only so long. It's possible for the jumps to still be happening when the mark on the first target expires and he becomes valid again. For Chain Induction this is WAI.


Issue 16 made me feel like this.
Warning: This poster likes to play Devil's Advocate.