Some questions regarding Invention Set Enhancements


Aggelakis

 

Posted

Hi folks,

Jax the newb here, and I've just gotten my first char to 50 (my beloved Robo/FF MM), yay! But now that I've got him to 50 and will start looking at pimping out his build, I have a few questions - primarily about set inventions, and one or two about the incarnate system.

Basically, some of the set enhancements are obviously straight forward - for example, an acc/dam/rech enhancement in an ability like lightning bolt would increase its accuracy, damage and reduce its recharge time all from the one enhancement. My questions are primarily about set bonuses, and a few of the quirkier enhancements. To make things simple (for myself), I'll be looking through the possible enhancement sets I can use, and the powers I might use them in to draw examples.

To being with, Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus (pets) - another thread I made had someone comment that this actually creates an aura around my character and affects all my pets. Is this true?

Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge (knockback) - does this affect just that ability, or is it a global effect?

Shield Wall: +Res (tp), +3% res (all) - how does this one work? Is it just a global effect that always applies to me? If I put it on something like Deflection Shield, does it only apply to my target? If I put it in something like Maneuvers does it only apply to me/affected targets while Maneuvers is active?

A similar question to this, but Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed - is this another global effect (I can't imagine it's just recharge reduction, as most of these IOs are either "Recharge" or "Recharge Reduction"), or does it apply/proc in a similar vein to the Shield Wall IO? Also, does it just affect the slotted power, or all powers - so if for arguments sake it is a constant effect merely by having it slotted, does it affect say my Force Bolt too, or just the slotted power's recharge speed?

Panancea: +Hit Points/Endurance - does this affect me, or if I'm using a heal on another target (such as Aid Other), does it affect them instead? If I put it into something like Health does it have a chance to trigger whenever I regenerate health or something (I always thought it didn't work in 'always on' powers, but I was recently told they do).

Performance Shifter: Chance for +End - similar to above, this does work in Stamina, correct? How exactly does it work?

Now this is a big one that will probably help out a lot of my understanding - a proc enhancement on a toggle ability. Guassian's Synchronised Fire Control: Chance for Build Up - in a toggle ability (in this case Tactics), the only chance it has to trigger is when it's toggled on, correct? It doesn't have a chance to trigger every x seconds does it?

Now onto the set bonuses:

To begin with, do any set bonuses transfer to my pets? I'm guessing not for the majority of sets, but I'm not so sure on pet sets. My hunch is no though.

Set bonuses which are like Enhancement(Range), Enhancement(Recharge) or Enhancement(Accuracy) - these are global effects which affect all of my abilities, correct? They don't just boost the slotted power do they?

Do set bonuses apply only while a power is active? It certainly seems to not be the case (I mean, how would an attacking power ever have its bonuses in effect), but of course I'm new to this thing. Still, if I could grab some confirmation that a set bonus on a toggle power will still be active, that'd be great - I'd hate to fork out a lot of inf for a rare/very rare set for a toggle power like Dispersion Bubble and find out I don't get the bonuses. =P

I think that's about it for the set bonuses. Finally, incarnates, but this one's pretty simply: are there any guides to the system (as it currently stands)? As a new to 50 character it's one of the first things I want to get involved in so I can get as powerful as possible, but right now I only have a rough idea - basically do the Mender Ramiel arc then do Task/Strike forces or something. =S

Anyway, thanks in advance for any help! I really, really appreciate it!

Jax


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Hi folks,

Jax the newb here, and I've just gotten my first char to 50 (my beloved Robo/FF MM), yay! But now that I've got him to 50 and will start looking at pimping out his build, I have a few questions - primarily about set inventions, and one or two about the incarnate system.

Basically, some of the set enhancements are obviously straight forward - for example, an acc/dam/rech enhancement in an ability like lightning bolt would increase its accuracy, damage and reduce its recharge time all from the one enhancement. My questions are primarily about set bonuses, and a few of the quirkier enhancements. To make things simple (for myself), I'll be looking through the possible enhancement sets I can use, and the powers I might use them in to draw examples.
Okay, here goes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
To being with, Sovereign Right: Resistance Bonus (pets) - another thread I made had someone comment that this actually creates an aura around my character and affects all my pets. Is this true?
Yes, all four of the pet bonus procs (Sovereign Right: +resistance, Edict of the Master: +defense, Call to Arms: +defense and Expedient Reinforcements: +resistance) behave in this manner. The latter two are Recharge Intensive Pet sets and can only be slotted in certain pet powers, none of which unfortunately are in Bots/FF.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge (knockback) - does this affect just that ability, or is it a global effect?
It is a global effect, but it is a proc (i.e. it has a % chance to happen and does not happen every time the power is used. Keep in mind when using Mids that the amount of recharge the planner displays is quite a bit more than you'll normally see since the proc isn't going to hit all the time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Shield Wall: +Res (tp), +3% res (all) - how does this one work? Is it just a global effect that always applies to me? If I put it on something like Deflection Shield, does it only apply to my target? If I put it in something like Maneuvers does it only apply to me/affected targets while Maneuvers is active?
It applies to you only. This is a general rule for all Invention slotting - the bonuses affect you, not the target of the power. Procs are another matter, but those are usually obvious. A proc chance to stun or to do damage, clearly, isn't meant to be affecting the player but rather the target.

You should generally assume that any 'extra' effects from Inventions such as the TP resistance, recharge reduction from Luck of the Gambler, etc are effects that will impact you and only you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
A similar question to this, but Luck of the Gambler: Recharge Speed - is this another global effect (I can't imagine it's just recharge reduction, as most of these IOs are either "Recharge" or "Recharge Reduction"), or does it apply/proc in a similar vein to the Shield Wall IO? Also, does it just affect the slotted power, or all powers - so if for arguments sake it is a constant effect merely by having it slotted, does it affect say my Force Bolt too, or just the slotted power's recharge speed?
Yes, it's a global effect, and a highly sought-after one. It affects all your powers and is a constant effect regardless of when/if you use the power in which it is slotted. The effect functions as a set bonus and follows the rules for set bonuses. Essentially it is a passive bonus to all of your powers so long as you are within three levels of the IO in question.

For instance, if you slot a level 50 Luck of the Gambler: Defense/Increased Global Recharge and then join a Positron Task Force and are exemplared down to level 15, you do not receive the bonus for the duration of the Task Force becuase you are more than three levels below the level of the IO. Note that this is the level of the IO, not the level of the power. This is why lower-level IOs may be more valuable than high-level IOs. A level 25 version of the same IO would be available to you over a much larger portion of the game content (levels 22-50) even if placed in a level 49 power that itself was greyed out for the lower-level content.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Panancea: +Hit Points/Endurance - does this affect me, or if I'm using a heal on another target (such as Aid Other), does it affect them instead? If I put it into something like Health does it have a chance to trigger whenever I regenerate health or something (I always thought it didn't work in 'always on' powers, but I was recently told they do).
It affects you (see above). If you put something like this into a passive power such as Health, it is effectively always on. This is the preferred way of slotting these types of IOs for most players - examples include the Panacea +HP/End IO, the Numina's Convalescence +Regen/+Recovery IO, the Miracle +Recovery IO, the Regenerative Tissue +Regen IO and the Performance Shifter +End IO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Performance Shifter: Chance for +End - similar to above, this does work in Stamina, correct? How exactly does it work?
Basically, in terms of game mechanics, passive powers actually recast themselves every few seconds. By placing these IOs in passive powers you ensure that their effects are always active without the need for you to renew them be making sure to use a particular power every few minutes or so. Mathematically speaking, the Chance for +End IO works out over time to be roughly equivalent to another EndMod IO in Stamina above and beyond what is already there - and since it arrives at this endurance recovery another way (by giving you a small boost of endurance every so often rather than increasing your underlying endurance recovery rate) it is independent of the diminishing returns for EndMod in the power Stamina.

In short, it's a way to squeeze more endurance out of Stamina after you've maxed out the EndMod slotting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Now this is a big one that will probably help out a lot of my understanding - a proc enhancement on a toggle ability. Guassian's Synchronised Fire Control: Chance for Build Up - in a toggle ability (in this case Tactics), the only chance it has to trigger is when it's toggled on, correct? It doesn't have a chance to trigger every x seconds does it?
In terms of game mechanics, toggle powers 'roll' chances for proc abilities to occur every few seconds where applicable. In the case of Tactics, the proc would attempt to fire every few seconds for as long as the power was active. There is some debate about this among players as to how worthwhile it is. Some people (rightly) say that often the proc may fire when you are standing around, resting, in transit, or otherwise unable to make use of the BuildUp effect. Others (rightly) say that it is a free BuildUp effect and may boost your damage without you having to lift a finger.

Some people prefer to slot that IO in powers like Aim or BuildUp on the theory that they can make use of the effect 100% of the time. If it happens to fire, they'll be getting use out of it because they'll already be attacking (or else they wouldn't have hit Aim/BuildUp). Other people argue that just because sometimes the effect is wasted doesn't mean that it's a poor choice - it's a bonus and every now and then your damage just spikes up from the effect.

Gaussian's also provides a significant Defense bonus for six-slotting the set and this of course requires placing the BuildUp proc IO with the other five in a single power - for many players who want that bonus, the power in question is Tactics.

In short, there's not really a consensus among players as to what the 'right' way to use this IO really is.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Now onto the set bonuses:

To begin with, do any set bonuses transfer to my pets? I'm guessing not for the majority of sets, but I'm not so sure on pet sets. My hunch is no though.
Except for the four bonuses mentioned above which are explicitly for pets and the Soulbound Allegiance: chance for BuildUp proc for pets, pretty much all set bonuses apply to you and not to your pets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Set bonuses which are like Enhancement(Range), Enhancement(Recharge) or Enhancement(Accuracy) - these are global effects which affect all of my abilities, correct? They don't just boost the slotted power do they?
Yes, those are global effects. Any Set Bonus effect is a global effect, not a local effect.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Do set bonuses apply only while a power is active? It certainly seems to not be the case (I mean, how would an attacking power ever have its bonuses in effect), but of course I'm new to this thing. Still, if I could grab some confirmation that a set bonus on a toggle power will still be active, that'd be great - I'd hate to fork out a lot of inf for a rare/very rare set for a toggle power like Dispersion Bubble and find out I don't get the bonuses. =P
This part takes a bit of thinking through to really understand. The answer to your first question is no. The Set Bonus global effect is a constant effect that is "on" irrespective of when you last used the particular power the Set is slotted in. What does matter, as I explained above, is your current level relative to the level of the Set slotted. If you don't exemplar down, then you don't have to concern yourself with this.

If you do exemplar, you retain the bonus so long as you are within 3 levels of the Set. If not all Set IOs are the same level, you'll lose elements of the Set Bonus as you get out of bounds from more of the Set pieces. For example, if you slotted a Set with a level 44 IO, a level 47 IO, a level 46 IO and a level 47 IO to get the Set Bonus for having four Set pieces, you would have those bonuses at level 50. If you dropped to level 44, you still have all your bonuses. At level 43 you drop to only getting the bonus for having two of those Set pieces slotted (the two level 47s no longer 'count') and if you drop below 41 then you lose all the Set Bonuses. This is of course temporary - you get it all back when you finish the TF in question and return to your natural level.

One further note: the ultra-rare Purple and PVP IO Sets are immune to this rule. These Set Bonuses function regardless of what level you exemplar down to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
I think that's about it for the set bonuses. Finally, incarnates, but this one's pretty simply: are there any guides to the system (as it currently stands)? As a new to 50 character it's one of the first things I want to get involved in so I can get as powerful as possible, but right now I only have a rough idea - basically do the Mender Ramiel arc then do Task/Strike forces or something. =S
Well, the trouble with such a guide is that the system itself is rather complex and there are numerous ways that one can build any given character with respect to IO Set Bonuses - do you stack up bonuses for Defense? for Recharge? for increased HP? for Accuracy? for Damage? A little of everything?

There's no 'right' way to do this, so it's usually more effective to make a build in Mids and post it for critique along with what your general thoughts and goals are in making the build - that way you can get individualized help from those in the know without trying to page through what would be a very ponderous and overwhelming all-encompassing guide.

ParagonWiki has good resources to start you off, and Mids Hero Designer has all the IO sets built-in so that's another great resource for you. Good luck!


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Posted

Most of these questions can be answered by reading up on Inventions on the wiki:
http://www.paragonwiki.com/wiki/Invention_System
--- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inventio...n_Enhancements
--- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inventio...hancement_Sets
--- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Inventio...nt_Set_Bonuses

For details on each individual IO set, type in the name in the search field, e.g.
--- http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Luck_of_the_Gambler
--- --- click on the "Defense/Increased Recharge Speed" for the individual IO details


Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.

 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxson B View Post
Force Feedback: Chance for +Recharge (knockback) - does this affect just that ability, or is it a global effect?
This one is a bit complicated:
1) Every time the power it's slotted in hits a target, the proc has a chance to activate, speeding the recharge of all your powers. This means putting it in an AoE knockback such as Footstomp is popular.
2) Every time it activates, it prevents itself from activating for a while. This keeps it from being overpowered in something like Footstomp.
3) If you slot it in one of your pets, it does nothing: pets aren't affected by recharge buffs (or debuffs), and the buff isn't passed along to you.


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Katie V View Post
2) Every time it activates, it prevents itself from activating for a while. This keeps it from being overpowered in something like Footstomp.
The wiki page indicates this is no longer true. It does not give a patch date regarding this. I don't have access to this IO, so I cannot test this myself, but this seems like something that should be tested and confirmed before we continue saying either statement (suppression vs not).


Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dispari View Post
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.