Quote:
Either player could also walk out with three purple recipes, or nothing but commons. Random is random. If you're looking at a single 45-minute TF run, then yes, it's not always fair. Measure it over a few days of play, or the weeks it takes to get a Very Rare, and things even out considerably.|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Player one: Gets standard end of mission bonus plus 8 shards
Player two: gets standard end of mission bonus and 0 shards |
By the way, it's quite unlikely to do a TF, kill everything, and get 0 shards. It's certainly never happened to me, and I have 4 characters with at least a t3 boost and another working his way up.
ahhhh now that makes sense! - see how rumors start?
<walks mindlessly away from the forum for now>
Mal
Call me,,, Mal
Quote:
Interesting. While I know that only a level 50+ mob triggers a roll for a shard, do your non-alpha unlocked teammates also have to be level 50, or can they be any level?|
Originally Posted by AquaJAWS
THIS
Shard drops on a different mechanic than every other drop in the game. Every mob has a chance of passing a shard to everyone on the team. If the team member rolls for a shard, but he can't receive it because the alpha isn't unlocked, someone else gets it. Every other drop, a mob kill leads to a possible drop that goes to a single member on a team. |
In other words, I get that if I were on a team of 8, and all of my teammates were 50, but only I had alpha unlocked, I'd be getting, on average, 8x the shard drop rate as I would if they all had alpha unlocked.
*But* if all of my teammates were level 40, and were just there for the experience (and I was fighting 50s, of course), would I still be getting that 8x boost relative to being on a team of alpha unlocked 50s?
M.A. Arcs
Intended for high level play: The Primus Trilogy (Arc #s 10931, 283821, 283825), "Freakshow U" (Arc #189073), Purification (Arc #352381, Dev's Choice!
)Intended for low level play: "Learning the Ropes" (Arc #100304), "Cracking Skulls" (Arc #115935), "The Lazarus Project" (Arc #124906)
Quote:
Shard, not shards. Gr'ai is only one. Which is lame.|
Originally Posted by Frostbiter
Not quite. You can buy a G'rai Matter for 150 Vangaurd Merits which can then be broken down for shards.
|
[Edit: I can't find proof of this, but I would have sworn I read it. If not, and it is four, woooooot!]
Quote:
It's one.|
Originally Posted by Postagulous
Shard, not shards. Gr'ai is only one. Which is lame.
[Edit: I can't find proof of this, but I would have sworn I read it. If not, and it is four, woooooot!] |
If someone demands "proof", all they have to do is look at it under the Breakdown tab under Incarnate Powers in the game UI.
@Brightfires - @Talisander
That chick what plays the bird-things...
Quote:
Guess my luck is just gooder than somes. 1 shard per hour solo, is, um, bad. IMO. I normally get 2-3 per run of a farm. It takes me 15 minutes to do one. But i get those darn purples, too. And those %s are higher solo, too. |
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Given that the assertion from a poster above, that shard award is different from the norm, in where each mob could potentially award 8 shards, (1 to a player) as opposed to the normal loot practice that a creature checks to see if it has a drop at all, then decides which one player get it.
So in the case of shards on solo versus teams, there is no 1 on 8 chance that given a drop, you may get it for teams. Thus teams tend to be better for shard drops, solely because you kill faster the bunches of mobs that you would be able to do alone. That is technically, in my own experience, it tends to be true. I can solo and decimate entire maps for hours and maybe get 1 or 2 shard drops ( I average a shard an hour, I know my luck suxors), which is often my norm. But I can go to level 50 TF with lots of people, kill in 30 min as many mobs I would have killed in two hours and walk out with an average of 2 shards. Which is by far better, timewise, for acquiring shards. I still have an issue with the randomness of shard drops, I feel its inherently wrong that luck plays such a large component in the acquisition of a critical component in the incarnate system. I feel aweful when hard working players go into a kill all ITF for example, and because of the "range" they walk out empty handed, and contrasted in the very same ITF another player walks out with 8 or more shards. Again I understand that is luck and the range, but does luck need to be so over-bearing? I mean zip versus 8? Is this really reasonable? Is this pragmatically fair? I use pragmatically as a means to emphasize in the final analysis. At a low level of fairness, it is understood that we all have the same chance to get a drop, so at an entry level, it is fair. But after an hour of grinding, and when the loot split is remarkly skewed, is that in truth fair? Lets look at the random number generator, is it working right? Is it possibly getting stuck at a certain range for a player? Let me delve into my concern, say there is a an average 1% per mob (averaged between minions, LTs, and bosses) chance to get a shard. That means that statisticaly 1 in 100 mobs is supposed to get you 1 drop, this is very basic statistics. The greater the sampling, the more likely the proportion will be experienced. That is if you take a sample of only ten rolls, you are very unlikely to get a drop, it was only a sample of ten and you had a 1 chance on 100. If you take a sample of 50 rolls, you really have a 50/50 chance to get that drop given also some form of standard deviation. If you were to do 100 rolls, and had a 1 in 100 chance, given a 1 sigma statistical variation, you should have an 87% chance to get it; that means there is a 13% chance a statistical aberration may occur and you get shafted. If you do 200 rolls, thus double the statistical pool, you still have the same 1 sigma deviation, but the 13% drops to 7% chance, at 300 rolls the aberration chance is only 4%, at 400 rolls would yield a 3% chance of you getting cheated. Now lets look an ITF, how many mobs we polish away in each mission? I would estimate about 300 of them. At 3 hundred and at an average 1% chance, under a properly working random number generator you should receive 3 shards give or take one standard deviation or +/- 0.51 shards. Now if you wind up with no drops, yeah sure bad luck, but how bad was it? 3/0.51 is roughly 6, my goodness a standard deviation of 6 is essentially unheard of in real life, really! that statistical catastrophe is like your being bitten by a blind dog, while a lightning strikes your head, as you stood by a leaking fire hydrant, as your cell phone shorted and zapped your ear while talking, and your state is decimated by a giant asteroid: All at the same time! While these events could possibly happen, in or out of the game, they should really, really , really be extremely rare. Judging by the frequency they do occur, I would think something is not right with the so called "range" or random number generator. Please note, these numbers are only after completing a single mission, not an entire ITF! Think how truly broken the range is if you walk out empty handed after an entire ITF! Perhaps after 100 rolls for a shard, a streak breaker should kick in, and give you 1! hugs Sue |
Quote:
I'm fairly certain the shard drop rate is less then 1 in 100. Maybe it would make you feel better to know that if someone got 7 shards on an ITF, they're very very lucky.
|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Given that the assertion from a poster above, that shard award is different from the norm, in where each mob could potentially award 8 shards, (1 to a player) as opposed to the normal loot practice that a creature checks to see if it has a drop at all, then decides which one player get it.
So in the case of shards on solo versus teams, there is no 1 on 8 chance that given a drop, you may get it for teams. Thus teams tend to be better for shard drops, solely because you kill faster the bunches of mobs that you would be able to do alone. That is technically, in my own experience, it tends to be true. I can solo and decimate entire maps for hours and maybe get 1 or 2 shard drops ( I average a shard an hour, I know my luck suxors), which is often my norm. But I can go to level 50 TF with lots of people, kill in 30 min as many mobs I would have killed in two hours and walk out with an average of 2 shards. Which is by far better, timewise, for acquiring shards. I still have an issue with the randomness of shard drops, I feel its inherently wrong that luck plays such a large component in the acquisition of a critical component in the incarnate system. I feel aweful when hard working players go into a kill all ITF for example, and because of the "range" they walk out empty handed, and contrasted in the very same ITF another player walks out with 8 or more shards. Again I understand that is luck and the range, but does luck need to be so over-bearing? I mean zip versus 8? Is this really reasonable? Is this pragmatically fair? I use pragmatically as a means to emphasize in the final analysis. At a low level of fairness, it is understood that we all have the same chance to get a drop, so at an entry level, it is fair. But after an hour of grinding, and when the loot split is remarkly skewed, is that in truth fair? Lets look at the random number generator, is it working right? Is it possibly getting stuck at a certain range for a player? Let me delve into my concern, say there is a an average 1% per mob (averaged between minions, LTs, and bosses) chance to get a shard. That means that statisticaly 1 in 100 mobs is supposed to get you 1 drop, this is very basic statistics. The greater the sampling, the more likely the proportion will be experienced. That is if you take a sample of only ten rolls, you are very unlikely to get a drop, it was only a sample of ten and you had a 1 chance on 100. If you take a sample of 50 rolls, you really have a 50/50 chance to get that drop given also some form of standard deviation. If you were to do 100 rolls, and had a 1 in 100 chance, given a 1 sigma statistical variation, you should have an 87% chance to get it; that means there is a 13% chance a statistical aberration may occur and you get shafted. If you do 200 rolls, thus double the statistical pool, you still have the same 1 sigma deviation, but the 13% drops to 7% chance, at 300 rolls the aberration chance is only 4%, at 400 rolls would yield a 3% chance of you getting cheated. Now lets look an ITF, how many mobs we polish away in each mission? I would estimate about 300 of them. At 3 hundred and at an average 1% chance, under a properly working random number generator you should receive 3 shards give or take one standard deviation or +/- 0.51 shards. Now if you wind up with no drops, yeah sure bad luck, but how bad was it? 3/0.51 is roughly 6, my goodness a standard deviation of 6 is essentially unheard of in real life, really! that statistical catastrophe is like your being bitten by a blind dog, while a lightning strikes your head, as you stood by a leaking fire hydrant, as your cell phone shorted and zapped your ear while talking, and your state is decimated by a giant asteroid: All at the same time! While these events could possibly happen, in or out of the game, they should really, really , really be extremely rare. Judging by the frequency they do occur, I would think something is not right with the so called "range" or random number generator. Please note, these numbers are only after completing a single mission, not an entire ITF! Think how truly broken the range is if you walk out empty handed after an entire ITF! Perhaps after 100 rolls for a shard, a streak breaker should kick in, and give you 1! hugs Sue |
I gotta make pain. I gotta make things right. I gotta stop what's comin'. 'Least I gotta try.
And if that wasn't enough you can also buy G'rai matter for vanguard merits.
Now, what if you don't need G'rai Matter or Ancient Nictus Fragments? Well, there are other task forces that give other common components, and additionally all of them can be broken down into shards.
It's not all random. There are guaranteed ways to get them. Just not necessarily as efficiently. But still available.
Two players walk into a TF, they work equally as hard....
Player one: Gets standard end of mission bonus plus 8 shards
Player two: gets standard end of mission bonus and 0 shards
Are you trying to tell me, this is fair?
Sure you can break down the end of mission material component for 1 shard, wooo wee what a reward? Am I supposed to be excited over this? When a player got 1 shard drop after breaking the component received down, and another doing the same ended up with 9? You really, really think this is equitative?
With regards to the weekly task force, you don't really get shards, you get a notice, which could be broken down for 2 to 4 shards, again forgive me, if I am not too excited over it.
Vanguard Merits, 150 of them buys you one Grai' matter, when broken down, its only worth 1 shard. Once again, I don't feel emotionally moved by this.
Now, I am not disagreeing with you, that shards can be earned in a variety ways and thus obtainable. My problem is the less than reasonably random drop rate from a statistical deviation standpoint.
Let me color this for you in a different manner.
1. We both go do an ITF, I get Nictus component and 8 shards. You get only the Nictus component.
2. We both had just unlocked the alpha slot, just before doing the ITF
3. We both worked just as hard during the ITF
4. It takes 3 material components to get 1 alpha tier enhancement
Guess who in one TF got to Tier 1 Alpha, and who is only 1/3rd of the way towards it?
You, really, really, really, think this is fair? We both worked just as hard, and there where over a thousand (4 missions at 300 kills per is 1200) rolls envolved in the process for each of us, and not even once you could get the 1 number you needed to roll? Not once in 1,200 tries? You really, really, really, think this is right? You can not even begin to think, that something is possibly wrong with the digital dice?
From my perspective, 1,200 rolls is a huge sampling pool, not something that should be lightly dismissed by saying: "It ok, you got un-lucky during this TF, but you may get lucky on the next one and make up for it" It was not a roll, it was 1,200 rolls!
Sue