Mmm...
Terrific idea, I really support in differentiated the Council and 5th column. If I look at council/5th column types of mobs, besides your standard soldeir with rifles, flamers, and MGs, I see two distinct factions of mobs as well:
1. Dark side faction where they have Warwolves and Vampir
2. Tech no side where they have all these robot type mobs
Since Requiem is 5th Column, I can see them retaining the Warwolves and Vampir; while the council go hightech robots.
Frankly I never did like to see werewolves and robots mixed, it was just too contrasting for me.
Stormy
Quote:
God, I LOVE that comic. It's mindless propaganda in the truest sense (at least by making Stalin into some kind of super hero, though he does have a great cape), but it is AWESOME propaganda. Now if Cole used Soviet Russian propaganda, I might actually support him.|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
Well, now that I can actually see your pic, I agree: THIS!
 Colonel Karl Kroenen, or something a lot like him, would really bring the 5th Column into a whole new level of awesome, in a way that Nazi M. Bison never really could.Really, one need look no further than the Stalin vs. Hitler comic to see how well Nazi, black magic, super soldiers and nuclear weapons go together |
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Stormfront_NA
Frankly I never did like to see werewolves and robots mixed, it was just too contrasting for me.
Stormy |
Not just in comic books and pulp stories, but the Nazis had attempted these things in real life. Nazi super-tech is drawn from the wunderwaffen projects while the mystic aspects (such as werewolves and vampires) draw inspiration from Nazi Occultism (Which I should note is only fringingly associated with the Thule Society*). Learning about how the Nazis delved into this probably freaked out a lot of people who learned of it, it revealed a new level of insanity some of the inner circle/higher ups had, but deep down, there was always the fear 'What if something of theirs worked?', and thus, the modern pop cultural belief was born that nazis had genetic experimentation, magic, and robots. Some stories favor one aspect over the other, but all three we experimented. (And thankfully, to our knowledge, only the wunderwaffen yielded anything, and all of it came as too little, too late.)
*Given how, historically, Nazis ended up dissolving the Thule Society and attempted to wipe it out in the Night of Long Knives, I've always thought they would have made a GREAT replacement for the Midnighters Redside. They would have still sent you to fight the Column in Cimerora, not to protect the time stream so much as just for revenge against past humiliation.
Click here to find all the All Things Art Threads!
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
Quote:
True, it is propaganda, but yes, it is also completely awesome |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
God, I LOVE that comic. It's mindless propaganda in the truest sense (at least by making Stalin into some kind of super hero, though he does have a great cape), but it is AWESOME propaganda. Now if Cole used Soviet Russian propaganda, I might actually support him.
|
I generally have a very strong revulsion of propaganda, but that's mostly because it attempts to pass lies off as truth. Soviet propaganda has the distinct aspect that it's rarely at all even believable, presenting aspects so fantastic and idealised that they're hard to believe. Because it's so unbelievable, it's easier to take it as fiction and giggle at the absurdity.That, and Stalin vs. Hitler is right up there with Superman at Earth's End having a bearded Superman fighting twin clones of Hitler. It's so absurd the meter rewinds and it becomes awesome again
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
Well, understandably this would be so in most cases, but one needs to remember that the Council was derived from the 5th Column who, in turn, were derived from pulp/classical Nazi depictions.
Not just in comic books and pulp stories, but the Nazis had attempted these things in real life. Nazi super-tech is drawn from the wunderwaffen projects while the mystic aspects (such as werewolves and vampires) draw inspiration from Nazi Occultism (Which I should note is only fringingly associated with the Thule Society*). Learning about how the Nazis delved into this probably freaked out a lot of people who learned of it, it revealed a new level of insanity some of the inner circle/higher ups had, but deep down, there was always the fear 'What if something of theirs worked?', and thus, the modern pop cultural belief was born that nazis had genetic experimentation, magic, and robots. Some stories favor one aspect over the other, but all three we experimented. (And thankfully, to our knowledge, only the wunderwaffen yielded anything, and all of it came as too little, too late.) *Given how, historically, Nazis ended up dissolving the Thule Society and attempted to wipe it out in the Night of Long Knives, I've always thought they would have made a GREAT replacement for the Midnighters Redside. They would have still sent you to fight the Column in Cimerora, not to protect the time stream so much as just for revenge against past humiliation. |
Robots, supermen, werewolves, vampires, rituals to bring Hitler and Goring back to life (now rewritten as bringing "Council leaders" back to life), all of that makes sense for the 5th Column, because all of that makes sense for the Nazi in free-hand alternate history fiction. Hell, there are genuine tropes to do with this, such as Stupid Jetpack Hitler! and the Ghostap. It's insane, it's nonsensical, it's absurd... Which is exactly why it fits a Nazi group so well, and why it feels so insane, nonsensical and absurd when given to everyone else. Especially when that someone else is a group of fascist aliens.
It's like trying to make a knockoff of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles, and being surprised when no-one takes you seriously. It's amazing the Ninja Turtles themselves are taken seriously, but they are, and they're the ONLY such concept that's ever likely to work, possibly excluding Biker Mice from Mars.
*edit*
All that just means that if we want to revamp something, it should be the 5th Column, since we can go completely wild with it, and it'll still make sense.
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
|
I think the Council is cooler than the fifth column.
Their green uniforms and other gear looks more high tech and military than the death masked fifths. Don't get me wrong the fifth column is also cool.
I don't like the idea of council being removed from the game just because fans like the fifth column better. The Council took over the fifth column they did not kill them and moved into their bases. In the future I would like to see Council remain among the top villain groups. (Archanos, Circle of thorns and the Council). While the fifth column are a smaller group more closely knit and most often seen in high level missions. Fifth column is resurrected because one dimension have been taken over by their equivalent to the fifth column (which have the same uniforms, gear etc), and the column of that dimension contacted many other dimensions which had been taken over or was in the process of being taken over by their sister organizations. Fifth column is now an dimensional menace and the dimension that manipulates Reichsman into a leadership position over the Fifth column in our world have not been described by the game yet. Off course a lot of old villian defect to the returning column, including all the vampires, werewolfes and most if not all of the named villains who were in the fifth column to begin with. However in our world Council remains the premier fascist supervillian group but they change their tune a little bit so they are more like the military in starship troopers their ideology is that they want the council to rule and democracy is a lie which will weaken humanity so they cant fight the aliens blah-blah-blah. Off course the fact that they are ruled by aliens is explained away as being allied with the good aliens. That way Council is the sci-fi fascist group and fifth column is the horror/pulp fascist group.
I approve of that, very much.
Really, one need look no further than the Stalin vs. Hitler comic to see how well Nazi, black magic, super soldiers and nuclear weapons go together