Strategic Insight (Def,Con,Corr,MM set)
By
Adeon Hawkwood,
Posted on: 2010-12-13 02:46 in Suggestions and Ideas
Awesome idea. I'm too busy to total up the buffs, but should be fine.
@Mechaniker
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My Characters: http://boards.cityofheroes.com/showthread.php?t=247787
Seems like there is too much self affecting stuff.
Especially since it seems that Shout of Command and (I think) Charge become perma with 3 regular recharge IO's and Hasten (Not including Charge's recharge bonus)
If you notice that other buff sets don't have alot of self affecting buffs and what ones they have either don't do much, are only a heal or cannot be made perma easily or even at all.
I really like the idea, although I think it needs some more work, I'll give it some thought and come back later.
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I don't think it's practical to make these work the way you want them to, specifically I think making the extra buff per teammate apply to all teammates is going to cause problems. The only way I can see to do it is for the power to give you an aura that buffs all teammates with the base amount and then grants them a short duration temporary power that provides further buffing based on how many teammates are near them. This could cause all sorts of problems and would require a lot of server power to update meaning it's probably not something the devs would go for.|
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
1/2 Boost Morale - Click, PBAoE (Self affecting), Team: Heal over time (10% +3% boost to the HoT per-teammate* within range, max contributors: 10*), Radius: 25 ft., Recharge: Moderate (15 seconds)
*Pets will only contribute 1.5% boost to the healing aura. **The aura can still heal the default 255 players but the boost caps at 10 6/10 Phalanx Maneuvers - Toggle, PBAoE (Self Affecting), Team: +Defense (All, 5% +2.5% Per-teammate* within range, max contributors: 10*), Radius: 60 ft., Rechage: Moderate (15 seconds) *Pets only contribute +1.75% to team defense buff **As per Morale boost, this can affect standard Ally buff target cap, but only 10 add a bonus |
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| 32/38 Tactical Genius - Toggle, PBAoE (Self affecting, does not require line of sight), Team: Stealth (1000%), Foe: -Perception (-100%), Special (Shouting: "CREEEEEEEED!!!!"), Radius: 2000 ft., Recharge: Moderate (15 seconds) |
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I think the logical way to do this is have a PBAoE power giving the same normal affects then creating a psuedo pet at each ally hit that gives a smaller PBAoE up to the maximum of 10 targets.
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Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
The only way I can see to do it is for the power to give you an aura that buffs all teammates with the base amount and then grants them a short duration temporary power that provides further buffing based on how many teammates are near them.
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That was my big concern too. The idea of buffs and heal affects being stronger based on the number of allies around you was inspired by (I'm not sure if we're allowed to directly mention any other game by the forum rules so forgive the vagueness) a certain, EA, cartoon, third person, World War II shooter where their soldier class could heal both himself and allies, but his heals were most effective with teammates around.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
I don't think it's practical to make these work the way you want them to, specifically I think making the extra buff per teammate apply to all teammates is going to cause problems. The only way I can see to do it is for the power to give you an aura that buffs all teammates with the base amount and then grants them a short duration temporary power that provides further buffing based on how many teammates are near them. This could cause all sorts of problems and would require a lot of server power to update meaning it's probably not something the devs would go for.
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It seemed like an interesting idea, but even as I had been writting this at 2 AM, I realized there might be technical issues with making it work.
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Originally Posted by Kiwi
Seems like there is too much self affecting stuff.
Especially since it seems that Shout of Command and (I think) Charge become perma with 3 regular recharge IO's and Hasten (Not including Charge's recharge bonus) If you notice that other buff sets don't have alot of self affecting buffs and what ones they have either don't do much, are only a heal or cannot be made perma easily or even at all. |
But the unfortunate problem is that it's a bit conceptually difficult to imagine Strategic insights made by a character to not always apply to themselves as well as the team.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
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Good point, that would probably be the best way to do Boost Morale, it's basically the same mechanic Fulcrum Shift uses in reverse. The only real issue I can see is that it would probably need to be limited to team-members only which makes it less useful than the other AoE Heals in Hamidon and MS raids (the server load from spawning 50+ pseudo-pets every 8 seconds or so would be enormous).|
Originally Posted by Kiwi
I think the logical way to do this is have a PBAoE power giving the same normal affects then creating a psuedo pet at each ally hit that gives a smaller PBAoE up to the maximum of 10 targets.
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For Phalanx Maneuvers though I think it would still be too server resource intensive unless it was changed to a click power (ala Mind Link).
As a more general contribution to the discussion, I've been thinking about it and I do like the concept but what I'd like to see are fewer buffs and more debuffs.
Here's how I'd do it (values where given are for Defenders):
- Bolster Morale: A single target heal over time effect (say 1.5 times the effectiveness of heal other but spread over 10seconds). Also provides a moderate recovery buff for a short period (maybe 30seconds? I want it to be a bonus from the heal, not something you pre-buff with).
- Advantageous Terrain: A patch debuff giving -50% speed, -20% defense and -20% resistance.
- Coordinated Maneuvers: AoE Toggle, provides Defense (10% or 13.3% all positions and types), also provides a little bit of DDR (maybe 20%?)
- Determined Advance: AoE Mez Protection Toggle (Immobilize, Hold and Stun for sure, maybe Sleep, other similar powers have that as a hole but in this case it's solely mez protection so I'd throw it in).
- Up and At Them: Ally rez, maybe with some sort of buff thrown in
- Demoralize: A Cone Terrorize effect, unlike yours I would make it mag 3 but no to-hit debuff (I think the stacked -to hit and +defense would be a bit to good)
- Tactical Assault: An AoE toggle power that provides a damage buff (maybe 30%) a to hit buff (maybe 5%) and a perception buff.
- Focused Fire: A single target -resistance (30%) and -defense debuff (20%), similar to Surveillance from Bane Spiders.
- Lightning Assault: Basically a combination of Group Teleport, Shield Charge and Wormhole. It teleports you and any nearby allies to the indicated destination provides a strong damage buff (maybe 50%?) and has an AoE Stun/Knockdown effect around the destination.
The basic concept is that most of the buffs are toggles and the debuffs are clicks. This represents that you provide your allies with ongoing tactical advice (i.e. a toggle) but your actions with regard to the enemy have to be more spur of the moment based on the current situation.
Bolster Morale and Up and At Them are the exceptions to this rule and are intended to represent you bolstering a flagging comrade and both provide "healing" for that very reason. I view Hit Points in most games as an abstraction that represents a characters overall ability to continue the fight rather than literally how many hits they can take. A character who has taken damage (or been defeated) has probably taken some wounds but those aren't necessarily serious, what has really been damaged is their will to continue. Your character provides support and encouragement which reinforces their will allowing them to fight on through the pain (represented by healing them). I changed Bolster Morale to single target for this reason, you can't bolster your own morale and a pep-talk to one of your allies needs to be specifically directed for maximum effect. Up and At Them is a reference to the scenes in various war movies where a sergeant/officer hauls another character to his feet and tells him to get moving.
Advantageous Terrain thematically represents the team using existing terrain to their advantage in-order to draw their opponents out of position (-speed) and deny them cover (-defense and resistance)
Like Traps and Forcefield it provides a defense and mez protection to nearby allies but unlike them it needs two powers to do it so the powers are a little stronger.
Demoralize: This is the primary active mitigation in the set, I removed the -to hit debuff because I think it would be to good stacked with the defense buff from Coordinated Maneuvers. I think it might be worth putting in some sort of debuff as well, ho hum.
Tactical Assault: Nothing Fancy, it's basically Assault + Tactics. My only real issue is that it does come kinda-late in the set for what it does, still it seems to be the best spot for it.
Focused Fire: The intent was to give some more -res to stack on bosses. However now that I think about it I'm not sure I like it, especially so late in the set. I think it makes sense to have a debuff here but I'm not sure what.
Lightning Assault: This is intended to represent a sudden attack by your team taking the foe in a surprise assault getting in amongst them before they can react. Functionally this is basically an inverse wormhole with some influence from Shield Charge and Masterminds using Group Teleport.
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okay, I actually really like this idea better than my own, though on the note of a secondary for demoralize, you could use the -Recharge on my original idea.|
Originally Posted by Adeon Hawkwood
Good point, that would probably be the best way to do Boost Morale, it's basically the same mechanic Fulcrum Shift uses in reverse. The only real issue I can see is that it would probably need to be limited to team-members only which makes it less useful than the other AoE Heals in Hamidon and MS raids (the server load from spawning 50+ pseudo-pets every 8 seconds or so would be enormous).
For Phalanx Maneuvers though I think it would still be too server resource intensive unless it was changed to a click power (ala Mind Link). As a more general contribution to the discussion, I've been thinking about it and I do like the concept but what I'd like to see are fewer buffs and more debuffs. Here's how I'd do it (values where given are for Defenders):
The basic concept is that most of the buffs are toggles and the debuffs are clicks. This represents that you provide your allies with ongoing tactical advice (i.e. a toggle) but your actions with regard to the enemy have to be more spur of the moment based on the current situation. Bolster Morale and Up and At Them are the exceptions to this rule and are intended to represent you bolstering a flagging comrade and both provide "healing" for that very reason. I view Hit Points in most games as an abstraction that represents a characters overall ability to continue the fight rather than literally how many hits they can take. A character who has taken damage (or been defeated) has probably taken some wounds but those aren't necessarily serious, what has really been damaged is their will to continue. Your character provides support and encouragement which reinforces their will allowing them to fight on through the pain (represented by healing them). I changed Bolster Morale to single target for this reason, you can't bolster your own morale and a pep-talk to one of your allies needs to be specifically directed for maximum effect. Up and At Them is a reference to the scenes in various war movies where a sergeant/officer hauls another character to his feet and tells him to get moving. Advantageous Terrain thematically represents the team using existing terrain to their advantage in-order to draw their opponents out of position (-speed) and deny them cover (-defense and resistance) Like Traps and Forcefield it provides a defense and mez protection to nearby allies but unlike them it needs two powers to do it so the powers are a little stronger. Demoralize: This is the primary active mitigation in the set, I removed the -to hit debuff because I think it would be to good stacked with the defense buff from Coordinated Maneuvers. I think it might be worth putting in some sort of debuff as well, ho hum. Tactical Assault: Nothing Fancy, it's basically Assault + Tactics. My only real issue is that it does come kinda-late in the set for what it does, still it seems to be the best spot for it. Focused Fire: The intent was to give some more -res to stack on bosses. However now that I think about it I'm not sure I like it, especially so late in the set. I think it makes sense to have a debuff here but I'm not sure what. Lightning Assault: This is intended to represent a sudden attack by your team taking the foe in a surprise assault getting in amongst them before they can react. Functionally this is basically an inverse wormhole with some influence from Shield Charge and Masterminds using Group Teleport. |
The reason for the -recharge debuff being that the enemy ends up so shaken that they're hesitating now, they can't aim properly, and your presence has wracked their nerves forcing them to take longer to follow up on even a successful attack.
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Originally Posted by Samuel_Tow
City of Heroes is a game about freedom of expression and variety of experiences far more so than it is about representing any one theme, topic or genre.
|
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Yeah, -recharge makes a lot of sense, I missed that when I was reading your original post |
Originally Posted by AzureSkyCiel
okay, I actually really like this idea better than my own, though on the note of a secondary for demoralize, you could use the -Recharge on my original idea.
The reason for the -recharge debuff being that the enemy ends up so shaken that they're hesitating now, they can't aim properly, and your presence has wracked their nerves forcing them to take longer to follow up on even a successful attack. |
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Regarding Focused Fire replacement, perhaps something like this:
Crossfire: single target debuff -to hit (10-15%) -defense(20%) -damage(40%)
Concept: target is hit from all sides, unable to defend himself or counter attack effectively
Mechanics: works well with +def from toggle, but only on 1 target, not the whole spawn. Meant for dangerous bosses. Recharge should be long enough that it is not perma when slotted.
Perhaps add a short duration taunt aura on target to make pets/allies automatically attack it ?
I do not suffer from altitis, I enjoy every character of it.
I definitely like the thinking behind this powerset - an archetype primary/secondary version of a related pool set and a natural/psyhic one.
Would this be what the power table looks like?
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It seems versatile in its buffs, but as pointed out by others, they seem to do a bit too much for the caster directly. Other than that, though, looks like an interesting set.
 Charge Boost Morale Shout of Command Phalanx Maneuvers Tactical Assault Demoralize Awe Tactical Insertion Alpha Strike
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Strategic Insight, to explain it simply, it a defender, corruptor, controller, or master mind archetype buff and debuff powerset suggestion that would be meant to fit a natural or psychic power origin with your character providing many buffs similar to leadership or the Arachnos Soldier/widow secondaries.
As fair warning; this is only a rough concept so some things might not sound like a very good idea or be unbalanced. As always, numbers will be fuzzy.
Edited: quoted Adeon Hawkwood's above my own suggestion for both comparison, making it easier to see, and I personally like his idea more.
For Phalanx Maneuvers though I think it would still be too server resource intensive unless it was changed to a click power (ala Mind Link).
As a more general contribution to the discussion, I've been thinking about it and I do like the concept but what I'd like to see are fewer buffs and more debuffs.
Here's how I'd do it (values where given are for Defenders):
The basic concept is that most of the buffs are toggles and the debuffs are clicks. This represents that you provide your allies with ongoing tactical advice (i.e. a toggle) but your actions with regard to the enemy have to be more spur of the moment based on the current situation.
Bolster Morale and Up and At Them are the exceptions to this rule and are intended to represent you bolstering a flagging comrade and both provide "healing" for that very reason. I view Hit Points in most games as an abstraction that represents a characters overall ability to continue the fight rather than literally how many hits they can take. A character who has taken damage (or been defeated) has probably taken some wounds but those aren't necessarily serious, what has really been damaged is their will to continue. Your character provides support and encouragement which reinforces their will allowing them to fight on through the pain (represented by healing them). I changed Bolster Morale to single target for this reason, you can't bolster your own morale and a pep-talk to one of your allies needs to be specifically directed for maximum effect. Up and At Them is a reference to the scenes in various war movies where a sergeant/officer hauls another character to his feet and tells him to get moving.
Advantageous Terrain thematically represents the team using existing terrain to their advantage in-order to draw their opponents out of position (-speed) and deny them cover (-defense and resistance)
Like Traps and Forcefield it provides a defense and mez protection to nearby allies but unlike them it needs two powers to do it so the powers are a little stronger.
Demoralize: This is the primary active mitigation in the set, I removed the -to hit debuff because I think it would be to good stacked with the defense buff from Coordinated Maneuvers. I think it might be worth putting in some sort of debuff as well, ho hum.
Tactical Assault: Nothing Fancy, it's basically Assault + Tactics. My only real issue is that it does come kinda-late in the set for what it does, still it seems to be the best spot for it.
Focused Fire: The intent was to give some more -res to stack on bosses. However now that I think about it I'm not sure I like it, especially so late in the set. I think it makes sense to have a debuff here but I'm not sure what.
Lightning Assault: This is intended to represent a sudden attack by your team taking the foe in a surprise assault getting in amongst them before they can react. Functionally this is basically an inverse wormhole with some influence from Shield Charge and Masterminds using Group Teleport.
1/2 Boost Morale - Click, PBAoE (Self affecting), Team: Heal over time (10% +3% boost to the HoT per-teammate* within range, max contributors: 10*), Radius: 25 ft., Recharge: Moderate (15 seconds)
*Pets will only contribute 1.5% boost to the healing aura.
**The aura can still heal the default 255 players but the boost caps at 10
2/4 Shout of Command - Click, PBAoE (Self Affecting), Team: +Res(Sleep, Fear, Confuse, Hold, Immobilize, -Rech, -Speed), +Recovery (20%), Radius: 25 ft., Duration: 90 seconds, Recharge: Long (240 seconds)
6/10 Phalanx Maneuvers - Toggle, PBAoE (Self Affecting), Team: +Defense (All, 5% +2.5% Per-teammate* within range, max contributors: 10*), Radius: 60 ft., Rechage: Moderate (15 seconds)
*Pets only contribute +1.75% to team defense buff
**As per Morale boost, this can affect standard Ally buff target cap, but only 10 add a bonus
8/16 Tactical Assault - Click, PBAoE (Self Affecting), Team: +Damage (50%), +ToHit (20%), Radius: 30 ft., Duration: 60 seconds, Recharge: 360 seconds
12/20 Demoralize - Click, Cone (30 Degree), Foe: Fear (Magnitude 2, 17.9 seconds), -ToHit (18.75%), -Recharge (30%), Range: 50 ft., Duration: 20 seconds, Recharge: Slow (40 seconds)
18/28 Awe - Toggle, PBAoE, Foe: Stun (Magnitude 2), Radius: 10 ft., Recharge: Slow (20)*
*Potential problem: overlapping with oppressive gloom, something Corruptors, MMs, and Defenders can get in their epic pools
26/35 Tactical Insertion - Toggle, PBAoE (Self Affecting), Team: Stealth (35 ft), +Perception (64.88%), +Defense (All, 5%), Radius: 40 ft., Recharge: slow (20 seconds)
32/38 Alpha Strike - Click, Single Target, Ally: +Damage (200%), ToHit (50%), Recharge (+100%), +HP (50%), -Damage (-40% after 30 second delay for 10 seconds), -Recovery (20% after 30 Second Delay for 10 seconds), -end (30 points after 30 second delay), Range: 20 ft., Interrupt Period: 10 seconds, Duration: 30 seconds (40 counting the crash), Recharge: Very long (360 seconds)
Gag tier 9...
32/38 Tactical Genius - Toggle, PBAoE (Self affecting, does not require line of sight), Team: Stealth (1000%), Foe: -Perception (-100%), Special (Shouting: "CREEEEEEEED!!!!"), Radius: 2000 ft., Recharge: Moderate (15 seconds)
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