Two things:
The Mu pet should be able to survive since you are a tank and could likely keep the aggro on yourself. Check to make sure, though, as I thought only the Dominator version of the Mu pet actually healed.
I have a spreadsheet which helps in analyzing survival. It'll let you compare a "sustained survivable DPS" of two builds pretty easily. Link to topic.
Where to now?
Check out all my guides and fiction pieces on my blog.
The MFing Warshade | The Last Rule of Tanking | The Got Dam Mastermind
Everything Dark Armor | The Softcap
don'T attempt to read tHis mEssaGe, And believe Me, it is not a codE.
Could you post the builds? Just the data chunks would be fine. I can run the math manually, but only if I can see the builds because the regeneration healing rates are affected by HPs from set bonuses.
My guess is that the regeneration won't make a significant difference, but being closer to the soft cap on more damage types will.
Thanks Dechs, I'll definitely check out that tool, looks very helpful.
Syntax, I don't have a problem posting the builds. I was wary of doing so because
a) I'm not using the unofficial version of i19 compliant Mids and
b) I wanted to focus on the questions in my OP, rather than a full build review
The Regen numbers I posted were based off of a temporary build I made where I added in Fitness and took out 3 powers that didn't contribute HP, Regen, Endurance or Recovery bonuses.
Stilll, here's Build A, with the 42% Psi Def:
Code:
Here's Build B:| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1420;717;1434;HEX;| |78DA9D946D53125114C7EFB24BB8020221A2A2F89086F8B08AD34C5633596A8D4E3| |283C2F4AA22942B6CD2CAC0625A6FFA007D85A6A74FD1F42D2ACBFA32781E2E4C33| |BE6B07FEBFBBF79E3DE77FCF72C99E6C048478BB2AB4C07AADD46C160B25E750367| |AB22DB7E4DA478EB929CB1579D072CA3E214492578B1BF2403A4D696D39C7AD9A23| |1BA53DBB66BBA709B59C953529AD7CAB0EE3BCDB904EC5AD46B69CAA84A16B75068| |1DCD151CDDA96A5BAED548274F3D0AE545DB80B7596CAB2D1ACDA755ECDCAB2BD6F| |3B32F6A06EEF5B6B8D962B8BD956315B6ABAB2713A08FED2F0FD618268F0156D5DA| |460302A06A60029319026A46608F3BD425D1097034C0ACF0E234F300A849FA64A27| |DA8656805146F4E4193B84DE5DCAD7BB0221862E2CC8ABABBC3AE73538EF955D06A| |7FF0E79BDECD3E3654B7D6C709CEDFE82009FDA888FA726386E22454873F8221434| |B9A0D7AC7AD052C066BC20F41D12D235C2EC4BC26F78C4AFCAFB39ED2C17999DE66| |EC10B0F728008C668A71A4C85B89227B429B0B5E12DC623C239248D683A05446E72| |3FAE76C83932E036AADC46B93DFDDC9E7E6ECFC49907534D9D13D2DC2C1D2AC7542| |F626C33C94D48B2DB05EE8501717115170F53C141AE3B18252423843F607448ED7E| |880386FB191CB00C36139A466F3DF1993A36F289F18530FE81F19110F7A1596ED66| |842C7A9084C8D71096D4CED9D1DFD35714B1C3CB94CC137A0DCB4EACAF4B1C0A9EB| |AF18278C5342EA35E30DA108CFCEA8A766E6C9C8FC02C3622C1216961819C273786| |A4E959F1BA6447B3065A944D65D8A5A5C65DC63DC2764D618EB8433D8C792FA852C| |C5E9A48D18DD43051FB8C4F6A5999CD13D505E8D66AE5DD2A97F346D740F74DB0C7| |70FD7FF5E5F039D74E62EFE0514507220DA631C3D41798AB7CF7054C2D11ECA3EDE| |B6BF053ADB09ADA0AF5B28B751EEA0C4C09F7887913E3F881F25801244E94309A18| |451A228C328EF51DA17794605C7| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1417;718;1436;HEX;| |78DA9D946D53125114C7EFB24BB8020221A2A2F89086F8B088D34CF630D38BB4D12| |96650A85795837A85CD6D656031A9377D80BE4263D6BBBE41D3B7A82CEBCBD079B8| |30CDF8AE1DF8FFEEDE7BF69CFF3DCBA570B21612E2ED3DA185EE3B956673A75C710| |F65A3AFD0F22A9E7DE49A1B72BF2A0F5AEE7E400891E6D59D357920DDA6B436DDE3| |96E3CA4665D7766CAF9D52CB05E94869955A751897BC8674AB5E2DB6E9D6240C3DA| |B3B08158F8E1CEB91ACD46DB71AA69B0776B5E6C15DA4BBB42F1BCD9A5D0FF2AA83| |CBF1F5BABD67AD43D56A7BA750697AB2D11E066F59F87E374134F88A8E2E3230181| |74333808C18CA12327384C57EA1AE8E218A8069E1DB629408469990BF0B3074F1C3| |5469215E2BC3282FFA4A8C2D42FF36E5ED5FE5780BF2EB1CAFEB9CDFE0FC57B6195| |CE61BE4F5B35F9F9FAD0DB0D149B6FD1302026A43019E9AE2B8A90C21CBE1392868| |7241BF59F3A1A590CD7841183824641DC2FC4BC22F7824A8CA0739ED3C17999FE5A| |EC14B0F7380164ED04E7383040D56225CD017D910D8E9E826E321E10272C7341F05| |C46E725BAE76C9A9F2603AAE4CC7B94B83DCA541EED2D4B90F53CD5C10B2DC331D2| |A27544B12EC36CDBD48B3E9256E8901714915978C52C161AE3B1C27A46384DF6074| |443561840346798FA31CB00236539A462F3FF5911A3776C6F844983C657C2024036| |896F289F1948E5331989A502526D4DED9519E2BFD317167FCCCF40A3D7303AACEAA| |E6CC1E0B9CBAFE8A71C2681332AF196F08A7F0EC9C4A34B740536730B5A0122D2C9| |2C5C52586C5C81196961979C2E7B01096B26C3DE637CF3FF51CFFF0CFC1F2320788| |E5241DB531A377AAE00397787469A668F44E925FA3996B9774E61FCD1ABD13DD31A| |3BD53F5BFD79750379DB98DFF0165942288F604474F519EE1ED731C5570B48BB287| |B79DAFA1EE7622ABE8EB16CA6D943B2809F027DE61642008124409A184510650222| |8519438CA28CA7B94CE5F609804D7| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Ok, here's Build C, the Psi-capped Invul tank!
Code:
There are "iffy" parts to it. With the prior 2 builds I submitted, I wasn't too worried about the low Acc slotting due to Kinetic Combats, since I had Rage. It occurred to me I only had 2 powers that didn't give the Tank-ish bonuses I was looking for - Dull Pain and Rage. Dull Pain of course, is non-negotiable, but, for the objectives I gave in my OP, do I really need Rage? I don't think so, so I swapped it out for Hurl Boulder to slot Devastation. | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1423;719;1438;HEX;| |78DA9D946D53125114C7EFC212F22410222A8A681AE2C32AD54C5633596A8D4E328| |3C2F4AA6210AEB0490B038B69BDE903F4157AD5E35768FA169565BDE9A3D079B830| |CDF8AE1DF6FFBBF7ECD9FF3DF7EC5CB2C79B7E215EAD09CDBF512FB5DBC542C93A9| |4AD816CC72ED966C3F26CC94A551E74AC8A5B0891E0A7C54D7920ADB634B6ADA34E| |DD92ADD2BE5937ED93B87A9C9575298D7CA709E3BCDD9256D5AE85B7AD9A84A16DF| |406FE5CA351377664A9695AD5004DEE9BD59A0DB360EF5145B6DA35B3C94FB3B262| |964D4BC6EE35CDB2B1DEEAD8B2986F74EAC56CA96DCBD6C908549886FB9B0744835| |B749D22058394189E61A409A939C2A257A80BF2728069E1D865E4097A81F0DDA3EC| |4457D70A30CA88813C6397E0DD233FEF2AA4E84E6180AF53F93AD95767DF0B7B0CB| |6FF0ABE2EAED3E1E29206B9C02497FB0312DC6A236E0E4D71DE146F2BCDE9CBB0A0| |871774796A0E2CC96F329E12060F09C96784749DF0135EF1A9E57D6C3BCF8BCCB3E| |D307CF2002788409476AA4128C82B39825B800911DA663C209C816958D328217C9D| |FB71B147F6C840B511556D84DB33C4ED19E2F68C9F39D02AC95D9A3AA59913568EA| |A5E44B9CC712E33C1BD48CC1274C88BA9BC5888161CE1754722844498F00B0A1D55| |BB1FE584B121062784C128AE761FE784981B2BE1D044DC89A1DF6033A9429357287| |4D58B65F3FEA6DF0A0CCDBC23A4DF13E63F10963E12329F08D7E0AD59F5D6EC1185| |2E3F671C334E08A9178C978432AC38A7DE9A5BA4CFBAB8C43018CB84A5154686F00| |78EFC822A7A417D9C0370329493719BD296D718771877099975C606E114B6BFA29A| |B4826D9F10E37AFF54C10F2EB1732E92D3FB27CAA551E4D2399DF947D37AFF44773| |DA1FEE9FADFEBB3BF67E7D9C3FF80024A0E447B88A347288F71FA0447251CEDA394| |71DAFDE2EF6D27B88A75DD40B989720B250AF589D798E9F681F850FC28019441942| |04A0825823286F206A5FB17BA5D07D9| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Now, the Accuracy of Jab and Haymaker are a concern, but I think I can live with it. Global Acc bonuses aren't all that great either (The purple sets I chose just HAD to be the ones without 15% global Acc). Invinicibility should help.
Just for yucks I switch to Soul Mastery, I figure a good 1-slot power would be Darkest Night and Gloom is... Gloom.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Build C looks the best.
I use the same formula for numerically expressing a tank's survivability as Dechs posted in the link. He just put it in a handy spreadsheet so you can compute it faster.
If you want to make your build more survivable, try to boost S/L resistance more. As you approach the cap, survivable DPS goes up significantly for the smallest increases in resistance. One more slot in Unyielding would get you to 89.7% with a standard IO.
How did you plan to slot Stamina/Health? I usually slot Stamina with 3 Performance Shifters, one being the proc. I only put Miracle and Numina uniques in Health. That would leave you with an extra slot after enhancing Unyielding. You could boost your regen more with a Regenerative Tissue unique in Health.
I know that seems like a build review, but I'm just making suggestions for how to squeeze a bit more survivability from it. Dechs gave you the spreadsheet link so you can see the effects of possible changes.
Thx, I settled on Build C, the one with soft-capped Psi, just did my "pre-spec" to move out IOs I won't need.
As far as Health and Stamina go
Under either scenario, Health will be 4 slotted with 3 Numis (unique, Heal, Heal/whatever's cheapest) and one Regen Tissue (unique). Stamina 3 slotted with Perf Shifter (End Mod, proc, End Mod/whatever's cheapest).
Syntax42 I looked into your suggestion and I think it's pretty good. The 3 Numis in Health were for Regen and +HP bonuses. Moving a Numi out and adding an Imp Armor Resist/Endurance in RPD gets to 89.2% s/l res.
I've always thought the Glad Armor unique was waaaaaaay overpriced, but dang if it doesn't make all the difference for this build. Looks like I won't be selling the one I'll be getting shortly from A-Merits.
Anyway, this is it (always subject to revision of course)
Code:
| Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1425;718;1436;HEX;| |78DA9D946B53125118C7CFBA6B882C0221A2A2784943BCAC524DD7992CB52667640| |685E955C5201C61735B18584CEB4D1FA0AFD0ABAE5FA1E95B5496F5A68F42CFE5E0| |38D3BB76E0FF3B97E7FCCFF39CE5903DDC308578B52A3473DD29B55AC542C9DD97C| |DBE6CDB2B7976DDF53F9095AADC6BBB159F1022C9B3C50DB927DD96B436DD83B6E3| |CA6669D7766CEF28A1A6B3D291D2CAB71BD0CE7B4DE956BD5A64D3AD49687A56B76| |1E6EA75C7DA92A586ED5683D4B96F576B1EF442DDA98A6CB66A768367B3B262976D| |57C6EF35ECB2B5D66C7BB298AFB79D62B6D4F264F36818324CC3F79B1F4483AFE8E| |822058D94189A61A409A939C262BF500FC4E500D3A2679B91271805C277BFB2131D| |43DB865646F4ED30F284FE02234BB0C05657B63ADB1A6C7B6E87C1EE5FC1B657A5D| |9CB190DCC12C29C6D98B3FD01713E15E7E399290E9FE2E2D21CB70CFBFA79DF5E7F| |AD0753316DC653C2C03E61F21921ED107EC29200BBF704D8769E379967DB2178F14| |10E10C11855A8C150887712A1AB00438813F089681AF944AEE1982ECE77C9CB3290| |60542518E58319E48319E483193B8194C6C5249FCFD431F574D82CA6CA8F7166639| |C6792CB4F729E06C4C5555C3C4C1B0EF3BEC351423242F805898EA8824738607490| |C10111304AA88004074CB2DF0CC7C57D9817973F9ED071E837984EA8A1894B3474B| |91F8BE06AA7DF0A5AFF8E907E4F98FF4058FA48C87C225C8155B36AD5EC010D5D7C| |CE38641C11522F182F0965D8714EAD9A5BA4F7BAB8C4B018CB84A5154686F0076EF| |E824A7A41BDAA3D70B29493759BC2965719771877099935C63AE118CA5F51BF9115| |7C09E362CC38BD5CF081476C9D1DD1695DCE3873B328E8C23F3A439A364EEF74C71| |F3EBD60FFFB7C36BB76FE1DFC1728A0E440B487D87A84F218BB4FB055C2D62E4A19| |BB9D2F66B792D075CCEB06CA4D945B2831C84FBCC6485F00248062A204510650422| |8619428CA28CA1B94CE5F540A0040| |-------------------------------------------------------------------|
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
I think you're making a big mistake skipping Rage. Several of your attacks are underslotted for damage, and two for accuracy, which I wouldn't recommend even with Rage. IMO, Jab and Haymaker both need another slot, and if you're going to use the Basilisk's Gaze in KoB, you should slot it with something other than Kinetic Combat. (Which you can afford to do since you're way past the soft-cap for S/L.)
The logic behind going to such lengths to soft-cap Psi defense but leaving E/NE at at 40% escapes me; E/NE damage is something like 8 times as common as Psi.
Durability is fine, but I think you're giving up way too much offense to build defense to an extremely rare damage type.
EDIT: I know you're going for a "no weaknesses" tank, but IMO having inadequate offense is a glaring weakness.
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to reply if it "escapes you". Invul increases defense as foes are in range. I can get to capped e/ne with 4 foes. Nothing will increase Psi. If you don't get that, well, I can't explain any further.| The logic behind going to such lengths to soft-cap Psi defense but leaving E/NE at at 40% escapes me; E/NE damage is something like 8 times as common as Psi. |
As far as offense, thank you for comments, I'm content with it.
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)
Quote:
Then why bother to get S/L defense to the soft-cap? Invinc also increases it with more foes in melee range. |
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
I'm not sure why I'm even bothering to reply if it "escapes you". Invul increases defense as foes are in range. I can get to capped e/ne with 4 foes. Nothing will increase Psi. If you don't get that, well, I can't explain any further.
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Quote:
| As far as offense, thank you for comments, I'm content with it. |
My Characters
Knight Court--A CoH Story Complete 2/3/2012
Quote:
The linked build was short a slot to do what you describe, unless I missed something. Anyway, I plugged in the four slots in Health, and I found that you were way overcapped on HP (something like 3730 out of a possible 3534), so I'm not sure what that third Numina (Heal/Whatever) is doing for you. All it does is lower your potential regeneration rate a bit when compared with a generic Heal IO in its place.|
Originally Posted by Deacon_NA
Thx, I settled on Build C, the one with soft-capped Psi, just did my "pre-spec" to move out IOs I won't need.
As far as Health and Stamina go Under either scenario, Health will be 4 slotted with 3 Numis (unique, Heal, Heal/whatever's cheapest) and one Regen Tissue (unique). Stamina 3 slotted with Perf Shifter (End Mod, proc, End Mod/whatever's cheapest). |
Personally I'd probably drop that slot altogether, or put a Miracle unique in its place. The extra recovery is probably a good idea because your toggle costs are through the roof. Not having Rage crashes will obviously help, but you have less end reduction in every attack than my INV/SS Tanker, and about 160% more toggle cost (1.31 versus 0.5ish EPS). For what it's worth, even with Miracle, that build of mine still occasionally has to watch his end.
The Cardiac Alpha boost may be your goal, of course, as it is mine.
Similar to the above, I'm not sure I see the benefit of the Numina set in Dull Pain. Seems to me you're better off with just pure Doctored Wounds, given that you're already over-capped on HP and given that you're on the low side for global recharge (especially since you didn't take Hasten). In fact, even if I sub in Doctored Wounds for that Numina set in DP, I'm still overcapped on HP by about 130. Maybe mixing some of the LoTG sets around would be beneficial, like that DEF/RECH in Tough Hide, which when swapped to a generic DEF IO gives you another ~0.2 DEF to all (except Psi).
If you want to go pure defensive, it's fine to roll with four-slotted attacks, but as others have pointed out, you're severely underslotted for accuracy given that you skipped Rage. If you can't hit the kinds of mobs that teams are likely to want you to tank, then you're going to have a harder time tanking them.
You might reconsider Rage, or if you're dead-set against it because of the crash (which is at least an understandable view for a team-oriented Tanker), you might consider picking up Tactics. A Kismet unique would help too.
All in all I like the approach. It's certainly different. If Tankers are your least favorite AT, though, I can't imagine why you'd want to double down on what most people seem to hate about it (that is, the feeling that you're a low-damage taunt bot). With the kind of money you're throwing at this build, you could easily go in the opposite direction and have a very sturdy character with Scrapper-competitive offense (double-stacked Rage).
Still, an interesting thread and an interesting build idea.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by Iggy_Kamakaze
Nice build
 |
I'm just getting around to finishing up my i19 build for my Inv/SS Tank. Though Tank is by far my least favorite AT, this particular character is the first I ever created, my first 50 and my Global namesake, so he gets the royal treatment to have as good a build as he can.
My intention for him is to be a true Tank, not a scranker, not a farmer, but someone capable of owning aggro and surviving the game's toughest encounters with little to no support.
For this build, I'm striving to make a "no weaknesses" Invul tank. So, among other things, I'm building up Psi Defense. I'm very pleased with what I've come up with, but I'm at a crossroads. Basically, I can take a patron pet to slot with Soulbound Allegiance and get to 42.2% psi def (let's call this "Build A") or I can go with Energy Mastery for Physical Perfection ("Build B"), which lowers my Psi Def to 38.3 but increases Regen from 309% to about 345% and bumps up all my other Def numbers by about 1% by redirectng some slots into Maneuvers and CJ.
With Build A, any teammate with Maneuvers will soft cap psi def, but that's not quite true for Build B. Conversley, a small purple accomplishes the same thing for either.
Build A needs 4 enemies in Invinc range to softcap e/n, 3 for f/c.
Build B needs 3 enemies to softcap e/n, 2 for f/c.
For what it's worth, I'm considering the Mu Guardian for Build A. He heals, but I doubt he'd survive the encounters I'd need him for (Freedom Phalanx, Lord Recluse).
So, I'm truly torn. At the moment, I'm inclined for Build B, but I'm easily swayed. Any thoughts from Invul vets, especially those that have built up Psi def?
Global = Hedgefund (or some derivation thereof)