Could really use PC buying help :/
By
Father Xmas,
Posted on: 2010-09-27 17:41 in ALL ACCESS Gameplay Technical Issues Bugs
hmmm, cyberpower doesn't have any SLI motherboards with USB 3.0/sata III, I really want to make use of the USB 3.0. I found this though, it works on all sata II motherboards right? For $9 added to the system that sounds perfect lol.
Oh, and I've been reading this since I looked at this configurator for the first time this summer and have no idea what it means;
Multiple Videocard Settings:
Xtreme Performance in SLI/CrossFireX Gaming Mode Supports Single Monitor [+0]
Non-SLI/Non-CrossFireX Mode Supports Multiple Monitors
SLI allows multiple monitors right? I don't see why it wouldn't, but I have left it set to Non-SLI mode for now since that's automatic(?).
I made all the changes you suggested and added the 2nd 260 card, changed to an SLI motherboard and added the USB 3.0 motherboard expansion, with all that is still comes to $17 less than before lol.
Here's the setup with the new changes 
. I almost forgot to lower the RAM selection. I looked at my HD use on this pc, it's at 54gb not counting "My Documents" or any of it's subfolders so I realized 64gb doesn't sound too safe. I left the monitor there for price comparison but I will probably buy it separate and get a way better deal.
Edit: Oh and I remembered I installed my ancient version of photoshop on my sister's windows7 64bit awhile ago when I wanted to use it and it runs fine. The drivers and everything else I can deal with.
Edit2: In a previous post I asked about whether or not the ports on the secondary videocard in an SLI setup could be used or not, but the post had so many questions that one got skipped over, can they?
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Quote:
That expansion card totally works for the USB 3.0, so that's a great little addition. |
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
hmmm, cyberpower doesn't have any SLI motherboards with USB 3.0/sata III, I really want to make use of the USB 3.0. I found this though, it works on all sata II motherboards right? For $9 added to the system that sounds perfect lol.
Oh, and I've been reading this since I looked at this configurator for the first time this summer and have no idea what it means; Multiple Videocard Settings: Xtreme Performance in SLI/CrossFireX Gaming Mode Supports Single Monitor [+0] Non-SLI/Non-CrossFireX Mode Supports Multiple Monitors SLI allows multiple monitors right? I don't see why it wouldn't, but I have left it set to Non-SLI mode for now since that's automatic(?). I made all the changes you suggested and added the 2nd 260 card, changed to an SLI motherboard and added the USB 3.0 motherboard expansion, with all that is still comes to $17 less than before lol. Here's the setup with the new changes . I almost forgot to lower the RAM selection. I looked at my HD use on this pc, it's at 54gb not counting "My Documents" or any of it's subfolders so I realized 64gb doesn't sound too safe. I left the monitor there for price comparison but I will probably buy it separate and get a way better deal.Edit: Oh and I remembered I installed my ancient version of photoshop on my sister's windows7 64bit awhile ago when I wanted to use it and it runs fine. The drivers and everything else I can deal with. Edit2: In a previous post I asked about whether or not the ports on the secondary videocard in an SLI setup could be used or not, but the post had so many questions that one got skipped over, can they? |
I noticed that you scaled back to the 768mb cards, which was a nice move: left a bit more wiggle room in the budget and you'll still just destroy CoH (and most other games out there) with maxed out settings at 1920x1200. And you upgraded the SSD to 128Gb, excellent move there too: the larger a SSD is, the faster it is. One thing to keep in mind, the BluRay drive there is only a reader: it won't burn discs. I assume you already knew that, but just pointing it out in case you'd missed it, as the BluRay drive is part of the default selections.
One problem that I did find in the build is the wireless card: it's PCI, but with two GTX 460s, your PCI slot will be covered up. Your solution is to skip this from the build from CyberPower and grab either a PCIe wireless card or USB wireless adapter. Here's a couple suggestions from Newegg for either one that will put it at the same price point as what you'd have gotten from CyberPower.
USB: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833704045
PCIe: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16833704059
(Note the free shipping on both selections)
Now for your other questions.
The video card settings thing is them asking you if you want them to enable SLI/Crossfire or leave it disabled (disabled maximizes the number of monitors that can be used by the computer, which is why it is asked). Just choose to have them activate SLI.
With Nvidia cards, if you use what they call 3D Surround (which requires an SLI set up), you will be able to game across three monitors all at once by using two ports on the first card and one port on the second card. Its called 3D Surround because it will support 3D across three monitors via Nvidia's 3D Vision kit, but the 3D kit is not required to use the three monitors in 2D.
In my opinion, buying a monitor in a brick and mortar store is always the best way to go. Monitors are too dependent upon personal tastes to leave selecting one to online reviews: you just have to be able to see it in action for yourself. Now, if you see what you want in a physical store, but can buy it online for less, then you might as well go for it. But you should probably be able to grab a 22 inch 1920x1080 or 1920x1200 monitor in your local BestBuy for the same price or less as what Cyberpower is offering.
Last thing, like I've said before, the Nvidia driver that re-establishes SLI in CoH is still in beta and definitely wouldn't be installed on your computer by Cyberpower, so you'd have to upgrade to the 260.68 beta driver in order to get SLI up and running. Nvidia drivers can always be downloaded here: http://www.nvidia.com/Download/index.aspx?lang=en-us.
Honestly, I think you're about ready to hit the buy button. Neo and Father Xmas gave a lot of great ideas, so I'd ask them for any last minute opinions, but that looks like one kick-a** PC to me.
Quote:
Pretty much any new high-end vidcard you're going to buy is going to scream for this.|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
The goals for the PC would be 1. maxing CoH with UltraMode settings (@ at least 1280x1024), with nothing turned down at all, I've been playing for years now, mostly on Performance/Minimum, I wanna jump to the opposite end of the spectrum with the new PC.
|
Quote:
| 2. High processing speed, I've been looking at AMD processors over Intel, something like a Phenom X4(High end) or X6. |
And more, CoH itself won't use more than 2 cores. So it behooves you to get a CPU that is operating its cores at as high a frequency as possible.
Quote:
| 3. 8(or at least 6 if it's intel) gb Ram |
Quote:
| 4(?) I saw a demo of a side-by-side comparison of an SSD pc's boottime compared to a fast mechanical one, and am now looking for one of those too, the way I've been configuring pc's on sites lately has been 1 30gb SSD bootdrive and a 2TB sata III data drive. |
Quote:
| I was hoping to keep the price under $1500ish, but with the SSD and a gfx card that can play coh how I want it that probably isn't possible. Another thing I have been trying to understand lately is Crossfire/SLI; I know it involves using 2 identical cards and raises performance, but (stupid question) can the ports on the 2nd card be used? like a 2 HDMI output setup? And is it really true certain games/apps can choose to "not support" crossfire leaving you with 1 mediocre card to work with for that app? (without fiddling with drivers? I tried updating a gfx driver this summer and got nowhere, I'd like the new card in this new pc to just come working lmao) |
SLI/Crossfire essentially involve linking two graphics cards together to share workloads. One card will be a "master", and the one you hook your monitor(s) to. The other can have monitors hooked up, but during gameplay, they won't be showing you anything in-game. For the most part, the technologies are variants of Alternate Frame Rendering (one card does one frame, the other card does the next, etc, etc). So they can, theoretically, knock out higher framerates.
In practice, this isn't always the case. And more, at your stated resolution, a single card is simply going to have more power available to it than the rendering engine will be able to use.
Translation: At 12x10 on something like a GTX460, you should be able to turn every setting up to max (saving Ambient Occlusion, which is a MASSIVE resource hog) and still have framerates well into the 60's.
Quote:
| Would upgrading to the GTX 465 or 470 single be worthwhile? |
A single 470 screams (SCREAMS) at 1920x1080 and will even play 2560x1536 with everything max at an acceptable framerate. However, monitors running this framerate would cost most of your budget right up front.
Don't even waste time with the 465. It's a low speed-binned 470/480 core. So it has all the drawbacks (higher power consumption, thermal profile, etc) of the higher end cards, but the 460 still beats it in performance.
A single 460, while not THE fastest solution on the face of the earth will still rip through CoH with consistently high framerates.
Quote:
| Being able to walk into a PC shop and pick everything out at reasonable prices and paying their flatrate fee to assemble it for me sounds nice but I don't know of any around here, and if I haven't heard of it I bet their stock wouldn't have the high-end stuff like this anyway. |
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
cool, so both cards' ports can be used. Yeah Hyper the 460 was great for the 1280xX res, but I realized my desk monitor is very old and I should get a new one if I'm getting a desktop, and the new selections are at the 1980x range so the requirements went way up.
hmm, do those WiFi options you chose require software? I wanted the internal for ease-of-use. I setup a USB one for someone once and the netgear thing was annoying as hell to work with lol, I am aiming for one that works with standard windows WiFi management.
Yeah I know it's just a bluray reader, it'd just be in case I dont feel like using the PS3 or have the PS3 somewhere else etc. I know blurays are burnable now and 50gb is attractive but I still haven't thought of trying it, and the price jump from reading to burning bluray is $40 up to like $200ish so I left it out.
Oh, and by bootdrive I meant "C: with programs installed to etc minus "my documents"", I guess that's not what it means lol.
Yeah I also like seeing the monitor color for myself in a store but they're way cheaper online. I probably would do exactly what you said and walk in a store then go online, I'm good at finding prices lol. Like ebay today, 23" new in box monitor for $30 and $25 shipping, I looked up the model# and it retails for $199.
Does this motherboard have more PCI slots? I know the difference between PCI and PCIe but there's all these separate subdividers for PCI motherboard specs and I don't know what's what.
I had found a cool thing I was just starting to look into getting, but it mounts into desktops via PCI I guess I'd have no room for it.
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by steveb
7. Windows 7 Professional: Unless you have productivity software that you need the XP mode for, or other networking needs (homegroup, remote desktop, etc), save the money and just go with Home Premium (BTW: Professional doesn't have the games like Solitare or Minesweeper built in, which kind of sucks)
Saves: $31 |
The games (including both Solitaire and Minesweeper) are included on my copy of Professional. They aren't installed by default but can be installed from Add/Remove programs. (Home Premium installs them by default).
If your really looking to save money on the OS buy an OEM copy - your buying hardware so the licensing permits it. - Thats a saving of ~£90 (~$150) over the retail pricing for Professional.
Mind of Gaia lvl 50 Defiant's first Mind/Storm 'troller.
Deadly Doc 50 Dark/Dark Corr
and lots more on Pinnacle,Union and Defiant
Quote:
You could go with that motherboard, but its another $30 or so just to have Cyberpower mount a PCI wireless card for you. Personally, I'd save the money and grab a PCIe card and just install it myself afterwards. The end cost to you would be the same as with the original motherboard, or possibly even a dollar or two less.|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
Does this motherboard have more PCI slots? I know the difference between PCI and PCIe but there's all these separate subdividers for PCI motherboard specs and I don't know what's what.
|
USB adapters are hit or miss: sometimes they work really easily, and other times they're a massive pain. I linked to a USB adapter with good user reviews and a rep for being easy to install, but a PCIe card would probably be the best route to go.
Would PCIe provide faster internet access too? hmmm
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Quote:
Its a bit more dependent on your router's speed and range etc, but theoretically a PCIe card should be a bit faster.
|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
Would PCIe provide faster internet access too? hmmm
|
Quote:
Mostly that's bunk.|
Originally Posted by steveb
Its a bit more dependent on your router's speed and range etc, but theoretically a PCIe card should be a bit faster.
|
On a board running the P55 chipset or later (brain-farting about the AMD equivallent), all the gigabit LAN ports (and any controller chips running them) are connected straight through the northbridge (where the PCI-E, high speed USB, SATA connections, memory, etc are). Not the southbridge (PCI, ISA, all the older, slower stuff).
So your actual thruput variance between an on-board gigabit ethernet port and a PCI-E card for ethernet should be approximately ZERO. Latency will vary depending on the solution, not the connection method (since they're both plugging through the same northbridge).
Additionally, if your router is doing 10/100, any extra speed is wasted.
And unless you've got an internet connection running above 100 megabits/sec (full duplex mode 100 up/100 down), your ethernet port speed is largely meaningless.
If you're talking wireless ethernet, don't even worry about it. Even the multi-channel "108 megabit" cards would barely max a PCI slot. Realistically, about 1/3rd to 2/5ths of wireless ethernet's bandwidth is consumed by overhead. In a noisy environment (pretty much anything beyond an EM-free "clean room"), and your device sees real thruput drop even further.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
It sounds like you're comparing the ethernet port to the PCI/PCI-E? Ethernet isn't an option for me at all, the router is at the other end of the house. We were comparing the PCI and PCI-E types of Wifi cards, so the northbridge/southbridge(which I never knew before, nice to know |
Originally Posted by Hyperstrike
Mostly that's bunk.
On a board running the P55 chipset or later (brain-farting about the AMD equivallent), all the gigabit LAN ports (and any controller chips running them) are connected straight through the northbridge (where the PCI-E, high speed USB, SATA connections, memory, etc are). Not the southbridge (PCI, ISA, all the older, slower stuff). So your actual thruput variance between an on-board gigabit ethernet port and a PCI-E card for ethernet should be approximately ZERO. Latency will vary depending on the solution, not the connection method (since they're both plugging through the same northbridge). Additionally, if your router is doing 10/100, any extra speed is wasted. And unless you've got an internet connection running above 100 megabits/sec (full duplex mode 100 up/100 down), your ethernet port speed is largely meaningless. |
) sounds like the PCI-E would be faster, like steve had said?
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Often the gigabit Ethernet chip is connected via a PCIe x1 channel. Even the first version of PCIe is fast enough for gigabit.
However since we are talking broadband internet, that caps to what ever you are subscribed to. A 20 megabit connection is 1/50th the bandwidth of gigabit and 1/5th the bandwidth of the older 100 Base T standard. Even 802.11G over a short distance would be fast enough.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
Totally confused now lol |
Originally Posted by Father Xmas
Often the gigabit Ethernet chip is connected via a PCIe x1 channel. Even the first version of PCIe is fast enough for gigabit.
However since we are talking broadband internet, that caps to what ever you are subscribed to. A 20 megabit connection is 1/50th the bandwidth of gigabit and 1/5th the bandwidth of the older 100 Base T standard. Even 802.11G over a short distance would be fast enough. |
. I have Optimum Online basic internet for my ISP, so I dont need anything more than an average card, but steve pointed out the PCI wont fit into my build.
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Sorry, I was talking about the gigabit Ethernet chip found on the motherboard, they all have one, or two, nowadays and they are usually wired to one of the PCIe lanes off of the motherboard chipset.
Like I said, broadband, even what passes for really fast broadband in the US, doesn't come close to to saturating even an old 100Mb/s Ethernet port and PCI can handle that easily.
Father Xmas - Level 50 Ice/Ice Tanker - Victory
$725 and $1350 parts lists --- My guide to computer components
Tempus unum hominem manet
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
It sounds like you're comparing the ethernet port to the PCI/PCI-E? Ethernet isn't an option for me at all, the router is at the other end of the house. We were comparing the PCI and PCI-E types of Wifi cards, so the northbridge/southbridge(which I never knew before, nice to know
) sounds like the PCI-E would be faster, like steve had said? |
Depends on what you're buying. If you're dealing with a multi-antenna G setup, no. PCI and PCI-E cards are absolutely equivallent.
If you're dealing with a multi-antenna N setup, you'll want to go with PCI-E.
But note, that you'll likely need a wireless router made by the same company as the card to take advantage of the thruput.
Clicking on the linked image above will take you off the City of Heroes site. However, the guides will be linked back here.
Quote:
Like I said, theoretically, yes; realistically, you're unlikely to see a difference. But due to the motherboard's layout, a PCIe is the best way to go.|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
It sounds like you're comparing the ethernet port to the PCI/PCI-E? Ethernet isn't an option for me at all, the router is at the other end of the house. We were comparing the PCI and PCI-E types of Wifi cards, so the northbridge/southbridge(which I never knew before, nice to know
) sounds like the PCI-E would be faster, like steve had said? |
I prefer powerline Ethernet myself whenever possible, but it is a far more expensive route to go down.
Are the MSI and Asus motherboards that different (a clear better)? I see the MSI has an integrated graphics chip and displayports, but I'm spending a fortune on videocards so those aren't useful to me lol, the PCIs on the Asus sound more useful. My selected case holds 7 expansion ports I think, the asus has 6? 2 of the 4 full-size PCI slots on the asus look different, what are those? If I upgrade to that one you said I'll be able to add the cyberpower wifi card right?
I'd like the size of a PCI-E for something like wifi, but it's easier to just add what the site offers, and with shipping and a good card (plus installing it) if the asus board works I'll just use that.
With the 2 Videocards (PCI), USB3.0 Expansion (PCIe), and Wifi card (PCI on cyberpower), that leaves 1 free PCI and PCIe on the Asus right?
MSI NF750-G55
ASUS M4N98TD EVO AM3 Nvidisa nForce 980a
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Quote:
Technically, the Asus board is actually the superior board, with a higher end chipset. My recommendations for grabbing a PCIe wireless were based on keeping the price as low as possible for you: the Asus board will actually have a couple extra features that the MSI board won't.|
Originally Posted by Psychic Guardian
Are the MSI and Asus motherboards that different (a clear better)? I see the MSI has an integrated graphics chip and displayports, but I'm spending a fortune on videocards so those aren't useful to me lol, the PCIs on the Asus sound more useful. My selected case holds 7 expansion ports I think, the asus has 6? 2 of the 4 full-size PCI slots on the asus look different, what are those? If I upgrade to that one you said I'll be able to add the cyberpower wifi card right?
I'd like the size of a PCI-E for something like wifi, but it's easier to just add what the site offers, and with shipping and a good card (plus installing it) if the asus board works I'll just use that. With the 2 Videocards (PCI), USB3.0 Expansion (PCIe), and Wifi card (PCI on cyberpower), that leaves 1 free PCI and PCIe on the Asus right? MSI NF750-G55 ASUS M4N98TD EVO AM3 Nvidisa nForce 980a |
However, due to the fact that the GTX 460 is a dual slot card, you won't have any free PCI or PCIe slots left after everything is in your build: one PCI slot and one PCIe slot will be covered up by the video cards. But you're already pretty much covered for everything that you want in the computer, so it won't really matter if you're all out of extra slots.
Ahh, see, computerbulding noob me had no idea about the 'dual-slot card' lol. Now it makes sense.
10 50's To Date! Check out Titan Sentinel; it got my CoH presence synced online
Edit: so the 955 can be easily overclocked to match the 965 performance? ewwww my photoshop won't work on 64 bit?? I guess it's time for a new question lol; why should I not flip the little toggle to 32bit and keep all my apps?(what does 64bit do besides screw everything up? haha)
As for the media card reader, I'd assume that they'll use some sort of adapter, but its tough to say as there is nothing on the website that would stop you from ordering incompatible parts.
And the 955 can be overclocked to the same speed as a 965 pretty easily, but don't start thinking that you can shave off even more by moving down to a 945 as that one isn't a Black Edition and is more difficult to overclock: if you don't mind the challenge its fine, but the $10 savings isn't worth it in my opinion.