Praetoria's difficulty needs to be tuned down.
By
Aquila_NA,
Posted on: 2010-08-22 01:33 in Suggestions and Ideas
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I agree with mostly everything here. But we've had Vanguard, Cimerorans, Midnighters and PPD (Paragon Police) since the launch of CoV. All kick-butt opponents.
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Originally Posted by ClawsandEffect
I think what they're doing is trying to set it up so no one AT can trivialize every bit of content it comes across.
From what I've seen, there are things I found easy with one AT that were damn near impossible on another. And then I switched ATs and it was reversed. I definitely feel that is a step in the right direction for the game. I mean, why have one AT (coughbrutescough) that can waltz through anything the game throws at it without even flinching? You have to have missions that are designed to hit the weak point of every AT. In the game as a whole, not just in Praetoria, how many supposedly difficult missions can a stalker ghost through that other ATs have problems with? Quite a few in my experience. Stealth-ignoring ambushes are about the only thing that really slows stalkers down. Arachnos, as much as I hate them, are actually a well designed enemy group in that regard. They have something that will be challenging to every AT. Those Fortunatas your stalker laughs at? Yeah, my dominator doesn't think those are so fun. Those Mu that keep faceplanting your corruptor? My dominator makes short work of them. Since this is really the first time new enemy groups have been designed since CoV came out, it seems they took those lessons they learned from Arachnos and Longbow and expanded them to include mission types designed to give certain ATs problems. I think what they're trying to do is make it so no matter how tough you are, you will run across something that will be difficult or impossible for you to do. |
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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I made this same argument in beta to almost universal agreement. Reducing or eliminating Rest's recharge means you can go all out on a spawn without having to worry about not being able to do anything for a couple of minutes.|
Originally Posted by Heraclea
There is very little that's wrong with Praetoria, or the lower level game elsewhere, in general, that would not be fixed simply by making Rest recharge in thirty seconds. Surviving a battle by the skin of your teeth is not intolerable. Having to wait three minutes to move on to the next is.
I don't see a downside, really? OMG REST IS OVERPOWERED??? Give me a break. |
Not sure why the devs ignored this easy win, but instead wishes to make Praetoria as much of a snoozefest as the rest of the early zones.
The City of Heroes Community is a special one and I will always look fondly on my times arguing, discussing and playing with you all. Thanks and thanks to the developers for a special experience.
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This will continue to baffle me, as well. Rest in itself is its own drawback - you have to stop to rest and you have to expose yourself to danger. It's balanced. Moreover, one of THE worst parts of this game, and indeed any game, is sitting on your hands waiting while nothing is happening. If Rest is reduced to zero recharge, this would mean that I will have to fear DYING, rather than fearing getting low on health and having to wait.|
Originally Posted by EvilGeko
I made this same argument in beta to almost universal agreement. Reducing or eliminating Rest's recharge means you can go all out on a spawn without having to worry about not being able to do anything for a couple of minutes.
Not sure why the devs ignored this easy win, but instead wishes to make Praetoria as much of a snoozefest as the rest of the early zones. |
Some people make the argument that the strength of a build is determined not by its ability to win but its ability to win and be at full bars and that having to fight the next spawn at less than peak condition introduces greater danger and, it is assumed, greater challenge. The problem is that the reason people "have" to fight the next spawn at less than peak performance is because the alternative is getting off your PC to go have lunch. This is not good game design.
As far as the difficulty in Praetoria goes, I will say what I've always said - the low levels are exactly the WRONG place to be looking for challenge. In the lower levels, everyone is gimed. Everyone. High difficulty because you simply don't have the right skills yet is not challenge. That is almost exactly the definition of cheap. "Challenge" as such should be sought in the higher levels where our characters have matured and are armed with enough tools to look after themselves. Only then should we be looking to challenge them. Slapping me with content which feels like it was designed for 40-50 while I'm level 12 is not good game design.
And as far as "no one AT trivialising content," how do unbelievable ambushes change that? If my Brute gets swamped and massacred by 30 Ghouls (which I actually counted), then how the flying Dutchman is my level 12 Blaster supposed to weather this kind of action? We're back to I3 Boss Buff territory - in an attempt to challenge Scrappers, Blasters got shaftet. Making enemies hit harder, faster and with more debuffs does little to differentiate between ATs. Throwing massive ambushes at level 12 does even less.
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Originally Posted by Arcanaville
Samuel_Tow is the only poster that makes me want to punch him in the head more often when I'm agreeing with him than when I'm disagreeing with him.
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Yes, yes, and not always. Ran with up to a team of five, it was still mostly the excessive ambushes that caused trouble. That and the occasional accidental aggro of another spawn, but that happens. Although, I still died more on the team than I did with smaller ones/solo. Not sure if it was simply Praetoria or two of our members not being particularly good (including the Pain Dom going AFK the moment we started a fight).|
Originally Posted by IanTheM1
You had a definite advantage with lots of mez, lots of damage, and being solo.
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However, one thing definitely easier about Praetoria: getting around without travel powers. So many of the spawns are neutral on the surface it makes getting around pretty easy. I was about to run around Imperial City safely without much effort at about level 8, whereas if I did the same in Steel Canyon with the same lack of attention to where mobs were at, I would have died repeatedly.
In My Opinion:
It's a little excessive, especially for squishies and (I imagine) new players. For an expansion that was apparently designed to draw in more of the latter, the difficulty seems tuned for experienced players, both in terms of skill and having some veteran powers to assist.
The really egregious part - and I've seen this in the other new content, like alignment missions - is the frequency of ambushes. I have yet to survive the swarm of Malta (about one spawn every ten seconds?!) that jumps me in the "Malta Gunslinger Action Figure" mission, even on a scrapper; sooner or later, one of the Sappers tags me and I'm done. The squishies have no chance at all. It might be more "realistic" than usual Malta tactics, and pose a real threat, but it's not fun.
My characters at Virtueverse
Faces of the City
I think what they're doing is trying to set it up so no one AT can trivialize every bit of content it comes across.
From what I've seen, there are things I found easy with one AT that were damn near impossible on another. And then I switched ATs and it was reversed. I definitely feel that is a step in the right direction for the game. I mean, why have one AT (coughbrutescough) that can waltz through anything the game throws at it without even flinching? You have to have missions that are designed to hit the weak point of every AT.
In the game as a whole, not just in Praetoria, how many supposedly difficult missions can a stalker ghost through that other ATs have problems with? Quite a few in my experience. Stealth-ignoring ambushes are about the only thing that really slows stalkers down.
Arachnos, as much as I hate them, are actually a well designed enemy group in that regard. They have something that will be challenging to every AT. Those Fortunatas your stalker laughs at? Yeah, my dominator doesn't think those are so fun. Those Mu that keep faceplanting your corruptor? My dominator makes short work of them.
Since this is really the first time new enemy groups have been designed since CoV came out, it seems they took those lessons they learned from Arachnos and Longbow and expanded them to include mission types designed to give certain ATs problems. I think what they're trying to do is make it so no matter how tough you are, you will run across something that will be difficult or impossible for you to do.
See, it's gems like these that make me check Claws' post history every once in a while to make sure I haven't missed anything good lately.