Need slotting help for Ill/rad/ice


Elanthil

 

Posted

I'm putting together an Illusion/Radiation/Ice Mastery controller and find I need some help.

The build is designed to be able to handle soloing on (some) GM's, (most) AV's, and kick massive amounts of butt for missioning and TF's.

Eventually the build will be kitted out with a lot of purples, but for now I only have part of that worked out.

I have the powers set more or less at the levels I want them, although suggestions on variations would be great!

I also know HOW MANY slots I want/need on the powers.

The problem I'm really having is what slot to put on what power...when.

I'll post the list of powers by level and slotting, then the build itself.

Here is the 'laundry list' for the build:

Level 1: Spectral Wounds - APOCALYPSE (4 PIECE)
Level 1: Radiant Aura - DOCTORED (5 PIECE)
Level 2: Blind - FORTUNATA (5 PIECE)
Level 4: Radiation Infection - DAMPENED SPIRIT(X3), LADY GREY(X2)
Level 6: Deceive - COERCIVE (5 PIECE)
Level 8: Accelerate Metabolism - WINTER(X3), ZEPHYR<KB>(X1), RECHARGE IO(X2)
Level 10: Enervating Field - RECHARGE (X1), END REDUX (X2)
Level 12: Air Superiority -(5 slot for set bonus) - HECATOMB
Level 14: Fly -FREEBIRD(X2)
Level 16: Superior Invisibility - LUCK OF THE GAMBLER(X2)
Level 18: Phantom Army - EXPEDIENT REINFORCEMENTS (X5)
Level 20: Swift - FLIGHT SPEED (X1)
Level 22: Health - NUMINA (X3)
Level 24: Stamina - PERFORMANCE SHIFTER (3)
Level 26: Spectral Terror -GLIMPSE OF THE ABYSS (5 PIECE)
Level 28: Lingering Radiation - PACING OF THE TURTLE (5 PIECE)
Level 30: Mutation - RECHARGE RATE (X1)
Level 32: Phantasm - SOULDBOUND ALLEGIANCE (5 PIECE)
Level 35: Group Invisibility - RECHARGE REDUCTION(X1)
Level 38: Flash - UNBREAKABLE CONSTRAINT (5 PIECE)
Level 41: Hibernate - REGENERATIVE TISSUE (2 PIECE)
Level 44: Frozen Armor - LUCK OF THE GAMBLER (2 PIECE)
Level 47: Ice Storm - RAGNAROK (5 PIECE)
Level 49: Recall Friend -RECHARGE REDUCTION (X1)

--------------------------------------


Again, as you can see, I know how MANY slots to take, and what to put IN the slots...I just don't understand/know WHEN to TAKE what slots.


 

Posted

I strongly suggest you take a look at my Illusion/Radiation Guide (linked in my sig) and the posts in response. Near the end of the comments, I posted my current Ill/Rad Perma-PA build. In the guide I explained my reasoning for taking each power and slotting them.

I also suggest you get Mid's builder from www.cohtitan.com. It not only makes trying out builds easier, it also makes it easy to post your proposed build so others can comment on it.

You can get a very powerful Perma-PA build without so many expensive purple sets. My guide describes almost all the sets that give you Recharge. My Perma-PA Ill/Rad only has five of the Coersive Persuasion set and two Soulbound Allegeance.

As for your build: The Fortunata purple set in Blind is a waste. Blind is a key power, and it needs to be slotted for Acc, Hold, Dam and Rech, not sleep.

RI: You can save slots using 3 Enzyme Hami-Os, or you can use 4 Dark Watcher if you want the 5% Recharge.

AM: Use 6 Efficacy Adapter.

EF: no need for a Recharge especially if you have lots of Global Recharge.

Air Sup: If you take one of the single target blasts from an APP set, you won't need Air Sup. Take Hover as a place for a LotG Recharge.

Sup Invis: Needs max EndRdx. See my guide for really good slotting.

Phantom Army: 4 Expediant Reinforcement, then 2 others to cap Recharge and damage. You could go with the two triples from Call to Arms, but I prefer Dam/Rech and Chance for Build Up from Soulbound here. The Chance for Build Up has an increased chance to hit with three pets rather than one.

Ling Rad: With enough global Recharge, you only need a single Accuracy. Those slots will get more benefit in other powers.

Mutation: I would take EM Pulse over Mutation. Take Flash at 30.

Phanty: Another 4 Expediant Reinforcement, and an Acc/Dam Hami-O to finish it out.

Group Invis: Why take this when you have Superior Invis?

My personal choice for APP set is Fire, because it does more damage. In any event, you need the single target blast to make the Blind-SW-Blast-SW attack chain for max damage.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Honestly, I glaze over a bit when I read guides for this game. They seem to all be...and I don't mean anything rude by this....theorycrafting rather than the hard 'do this or suck' kind of information I need.

Again, the real big problem comes in not even so much what POWER to take at what level, but what SLOT to attach to that power at what level, because of exemplaring, et al.

Even after reading your guide, I still feel clueless about how to swap powers and slots around...I guess I'm just thick skulled.

As to power choices, well I debated over whether to take group invis, mutation and recall friend or not, but since I do a lot of task forces...speed runs....I kind of felt that taking them...and taking them as early as I could...was fairly important, given the sheer lack of available, RELIABLE empathy based characters on Freedom server. Trying to find a healer around here is like trying to get Yak milk from a chicken. And the lack of teleporters is just as bad.

I HAD considered the leadership pool, but several people informed me they don't think I'll be in range of my pets often enough or long enough for the power effects to come into play, and one person claimed that leadership powers don't affect phantom pets at all, so I felt because of the confusion it was best to skip it.

as to your set advice...after reading it over a couple of times I concur...you may have just save me billions that I don't even have yet .

I'll post the data chunk here, with slotting but no sets. Would you be willing to play with it a bit to optimize it? and feel free to ditch group invis if you think its really unneeded and replace ice with whatever you feel best.

Heres the data:

Code:
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Posted

Unfortunately, I'm not on a computer where I have Mid's at the moment, so I can't read a data chunk.

As for the guide, did you look at the later sections, where I discussed strategy? Did you look at the sections where I discussed how to level up a character? My guide is kind of unique in that is has those sections. I also tried to give various options, rather than just my personal opinion. Under the discussion about each power, I tried to discuss practical aspects of how to slot the power and some strategies to make it better. There's plenty of "theory" in the beginning where I try to discuss the benefits and weaknesses of an Ill/Rad, but there's tons of practical stuff, too. I suggest you read the section about dealing with Spectral Damage, as that will make a HUGE difference on the amount of damage you do.

I use both builds on my Ill/Rad. My second build is my perma-PA build posted in the later post for the guide, and that's the one I use most of the time. He can both solo and team very, very well. But every now and then, I pull out my old build who has Recall Friend and Teleport and Hover (Teleport+Hover is far better than Teleport alone.) That one is really nice to have on a Shard TF or a TF with a lot of stealthable missions. Because of Stealth, Recall Friend is very nice to have on an Ill/Rad, but you have to give up something good to get it. For me to fit in Recall Friend on my Perma PA build, I would have had to get a few really expensive purple sets to make up for the recharge from some of the sets and IOs I currently have . . . but I could do it.

I used to really like having Mutation, but there are so many Rez options in the game now, very few Rez powers are worth taking. With a Day Job accolade, you can get 10 charges for Rez Ally. You can get a self-Rez as a temp power in the late teens, and can combine Inspirations to make wakies. You can get Rise of the Phoenix from the Fire APP set. So the need for Rez powers has substantially reduced in the current game. (However, my one character with Fallout has Mutation too -- after blowing up a teammate, it is only polite to rez him, too.)

If you want Group Invis, then drop Superior Invis. If you need a place for another LotG Recharge, you would get more benefit from Combat Jumping.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Did some more reading and I must say, the guide is a bit...chewy for the brain...at first, but it digests quite nicely if you just put in the effort to nibble at it steadily (sorry, I love analogies).

Found quite a bit of good info in there. I'm still feeling a bit muddle-headed about when to assign a slot to a power, but that should come in time and practice.

Some questions/comments I had about your final build:


1- What is your particular play style for this build? Do you stand off at all times and let your pets do the work, stepping in only to finish tough foes....or do you actively blast on things the whole time?

2- Whats the purpose of taking EM Pulse in YOUR playstyle? It requires advancing to melee range, much as Flash does, but its debuff and other side effects have such a meager duration (compared to Flash) that one wonders why you would really bother?

3- What is the best position, relative to the enemies, in your opinion, for the flying/hovering Ill/Rad during a large mob battle while SOLO...and where again while TEAMING? Directly above? As far out back as possible?

4-I'm suddenly having issues in Cimmerora with being seen and attacked after dropping pets. On my old (several years old) build, this didn't seem to happen so much. My superior Invis is currently SO'd, so could that be the problem, or could it be something that happened in a recent patch, as the problem just cropped up recently?

Yes, I understand its possible to be seen, your stealth drops 50%, yadda yadda, but I'm teaming with other Ill/Rads and Kins and they are not getting focus fired by 10 mobs...but I am.

5- Lastly, I'm having issues with my pets lack of AI activation range. Unless I literally get close enough to pick the enemies nose, my pets just...stand there. Furthermore, on the flip side, they occaisionally go insane and wander off to attack things nowhere near the party. Can you offer any suggestions on how to deal with their stupidity, and do you know of a macro that will 'mass kill' all my pets?


 

Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Elanthil View Post
Did some more reading and I must say, the guide is a bit...chewy for the brain...at first, but it digests quite nicely if you just put in the effort to nibble at it steadily (sorry, I love analogies).

Found quite a bit of good info in there. I'm still feeling a bit muddle-headed about when to assign a slot to a power, but that should come in time and practice.

Some questions/comments I had about your final build:


1- What is your particular play style for this build? Do you stand off at all times and let your pets do the work, stepping in only to finish tough foes....or do you actively blast on things the whole time?
Playstyle is try to get the pets engaged, then generally apply the rad debuffs on foes who are focused on the PA. (If PA are already out, I may need to lead them into the fight with invis.) I almost always stay at range, unless needed for Flash, EM Pulse or to lead the pets. Check if any foes need a Deceive. Then pick a minion to blast using Blind-SW-Fire Blast-SW. Apply Spectral Terror when needed, sometimes to catch add-ins or if some ToHit Debuff is needed. I generally keep Superior Invis on except during long, tough fights where endurance might be an issue.

I use the "speed-on-demand" binds from Citybinder, which allows me to be in Hover unless I press any direction key, at which time I automatically change to Fly, then go back to Hover when I let go of the key. This allows me to effectively fight from the air when I choose, and I don't have to slot Hover for Flight Speed. That makes it easy to stay at range.


Quote:

2- Whats the purpose of taking EM Pulse in YOUR playstyle? It requires advancing to melee range, much as Flash does, but its debuff and other side effects have such a meager duration (compared to Flash) that one wonders why you would really bother?
EM Pulse is more of a panic button and back-up control power. It allows me to use Flash whenever I want, knowing that I always have another huge Hold available. The radius is so big on EM Pulse that you don't have to go into melee range. It works fine from the edge of the group. Take a look at the numbers. Most of the time, I can stand to the side of the group and still get the entire group.

I also use it selectively against certain foes. Large group of Robots? It does some AoE damage in addition to the hold and debuffs. (However, I consider the debuffs to be a minor aspect of the power. I may use them once in a while, though.) Flash+EM Pulse will hold almost anything short of an AV. I found it very useful in some Shard TFs and in the Lady Gray TF. You know that spot in the ITF when all the Robots come to life while you beat on the control box? EM Pulse does damage to all of them on one shot. I almost always use an EM Pulse as soon as they come to life, then I fly up high to avoid aggro and pop a blue. Then back down to pick one to pick on once somebody else has the aggro.

Quote:

3- What is the best position, relative to the enemies, in your opinion, for the flying/hovering Ill/Rad during a large mob battle while SOLO...and where again while TEAMING? Directly above? As far out back as possible?
It varies, but for the most part, I stay moderately back, up high enough to stay out of melee and most AoE range, but close enough to see what is going on. If a foe decides to focus on me instead of the pets, I often use Deceive to distract him and get him focused back on the main group. If I think I may need Flash/EM Pulse, I may fly overhead to make it easy to drop down and pop the hold.

If I have to lead the pets into the fight, I will sometimes set up on the far side of the group from the rest of the team. This lets me look for good targets to Deceive, and if we get a new group who comes in to aggro, I can catch them with Flash or Spectral Terror. It really varies.

Quote:

4-I'm suddenly having issues in Cimmerora with being seen and attacked after dropping pets. On my old (several years old) build, this didn't seem to happen so much. My superior Invis is currently SO'd, so could that be the problem, or could it be something that happened in a recent patch, as the problem just cropped up recently?

Yes, I understand its possible to be seen, your stealth drops 50%, yadda yadda, but I'm teaming with other Ill/Rads and Kins and they are not getting focus fired by 10 mobs...but I am.
Are you using your Debuffs or AoE damage powers before teammates/PA can get aggro? Either of those can draw aggro, so I usually hold off on them until the aggro is already focused on somebody or something else. Some Tanks insist on running in immediately -- if so, I usually hold back casting PA until I see foes that may not be aggroed on the tank. Or, if he is handling aggro well, I use PA as a damage power.

I'm pretty careful about avoiding aggro. If any foe gets too near me, he gets a Deceive. If any foe looks at me funny or tries to shoot near me, he gets a Deceive or a Spectral Terror. And I use Deceive or Blind whenever I get a foe focused on me. I worry more about taking down individual foes fast, but I'm not in a hurry to take down the group. Picking them off one by one is safer and works better with Illusion's tools.

Quote:

5- Lastly, I'm having issues with my pets lack of AI activation range. Unless I literally get close enough to pick the enemies nose, my pets just...stand there. Furthermore, on the flip side, they occaisionally go insane and wander off to attack things nowhere near the party. Can you offer any suggestions on how to deal with their stupidity, and do you know of a macro that will 'mass kill' all my pets?
The macro to dismiss your pets is, as far as I can remember (I don't have game access at the moment):
/macro Pets release_pets

You can use anything you want for "Pets." It is a useful macro to have, especially when you want to stealth a mission.

As for positioning pets, a key is using Invisibility to pull the the pets into groups of foes with your "invisibile leash." That's one of the best parts of Superior Invis. I usually fly to the far side of the group of foes, pulling the PA in after me. They will usually start attacking from range.

With PA, sometimes I will hold back on re-casting them if the team is handling things well enough, just so I can place them where I want for the next group.

Realizing that you have pets to control is an important part of a higher level controller -- it is easy to forget if you are used to playing any other AT. I generally stay back, making sure that my pets stay out of trouble.


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control

 

Posted

Stellar advice, Local Man. thanks a lot...and I'm getting more and more out of the guide as I reread sections.

I've played this char for over 2 years, and its my second ill/rad, but I've always had those questions about how OTHER people played their build...I tended to play mine like a blaster with pets...but now, I see some other ways to play, based on what you explained and what the guide covers.

Really good stuff!


 

Posted

A controller is really a different mind-set than the other ATs when on a team. Your primary purpose is to protect the team and do as much as you can to reduce the damage taken by teammates while limiting the foes. Then you use your secondary to benefit the team with buffs and debuffs. Damage is fairly low down the list of priorities. The closest other AT is, oddly enough, a Tank.

Solo, of course damage becomes more important, but you still gain your safety and survivability through control.

Illusion controllers are even more unusual -- but in some ways more like Tanks. Illusion controls using aggro on PA and Phanty's decoy, but also has Deceive and Spectral Terror to add to the mix. I consider Deceive to be very important as a control power -- it not only stops the foe from doing damage to you and your team, but also helps to gather the foes closer, and in some cases can add to the overall control you are using by turning the foes' control back on themselves. It becomes a multiplier. For example, if you confuse a Tsoo Ink Man, he will turn his annoying sleep power on his buddies . . . almost like adding a temporary controller to your team. That certainly multplies your efforts when the confused Inky runs around and controls for you.

Should you do damage? Absolutely! But it is a lower priority than control and debuffs. Another important factor is your personal survival. If you die, you can't control foes for everyone else, so your personal survival is important. (On occasion, I have been the only survivor from a team wipe. While I hid in invisibility, I used Deceive to get rid of the most difficult foes . . . such that by the time the rest of the team came back from the hospital, the only foe left would stand there meekly and let himself get clobbered. What wiped out the entire team, I could handle solo with some time and patience.)


LOCAL MAN! The most famous hero of all. There are more newspaper stories about me than anyone else. "Local Man wins Medal of Honor." "Local Man opens Animal Shelter." "Local Man Charged with..." (Um, forget about that one.)
Guide Links: Earth/Rad Guide, Illusion/Rad Guide, Electric Control