Better Options for Exsisting Graphics please?
By
Aett_Thorn,
Posted on: 2010-05-19 10:46 in Suggestions and Ideas
Well, I'll go in order here:
Rikti Katana: If the you get it from the Rikti, wouldn't they all be the same color?
Tech Wings: I agree. There are actually a number of options that seem like they would go together, but the colors make them seem a little off. The mask options all seem to be just a little off in color from whatever tights you're wearing, and that drives me bonkers.
Rocket Packs: As a temporary item, they don't seem like they drive the Devs as mad as they would as a real costume item. Basically, with the temp powers, you can kind of understand why they don't fit onto the character. But as a costume option, why would it hover off the back of your tiny character by a foot? Or why does it seem to have been planted into your huge character?
Also, what would happen with the jet pack if you used a temporary jet pack in-game? Would it activate the costume option instead, or would it overlay the temp power onto the costume piece? Both of these run into problems with implementation.
Would I like to see it? Sure. I just understand why they haven't yet.
But, not to be completely negative here, have you checked out Sexy Jay's costume request thread? There are a lot of requested costume options in there, and he does read through it.
Let me never fall into the vulgar mistake of dreaming that I am persecuted whenever I am contradicted.
~Ralph Waldo Emerson
"I was just the one with the most unsolicited sombrero." - Traegus
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Yes, but that doesn't mean you can't modify it after you get it...|
Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Well, I'll go in order here:
Rikti Katana: If the you get it from the Rikti, wouldn't they all be the same color? |
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Tech Wings: I agree. There are actually a number of options that seem like they would go together, but the colors make them seem a little off. The mask options all seem to be just a little off in color from whatever tights you're wearing, and that drives me bonkers.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
Rocket Packs: As a temporary item, they don't seem like they drive the Devs as mad as they would as a real costume item. Basically, with the temp powers, you can kind of understand why they don't fit onto the character. But as a costume option, why would it hover off the back of your tiny character by a foot? Or why does it seem to have been planted into your huge character?
Also, what would happen with the jet pack if you used a temporary jet pack in-game? Would it activate the costume option instead, or would it overlay the temp power onto the costume piece? Both of these run into problems with implementation. Would I like to see it? Sure. I just understand why they haven't yet. |
As to the temp jet pack powers. Staking would look odd but they already have that in the game, especially when combining the Jumper Pack. Idealy if they have a costume back pack I would think it would use the costume's animation instead of the temp power. The unlocked rocket packs almost never match characters, as no one would ever build a character around a power you only can use for so long.
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Originally Posted by Aett_Thorn
But, not to be completely negative here, have you checked out Sexy Jay's costume request thread? There are a lot of requested costume options in there, and he does read through it.
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Backpacks won't work.
Firstly, there's only so many Attachment points on the player model. Without revamping the character models completely, you're stuck with the limited number.
Secondly: Sizing issues. A small character doesn't occupy the same VISUAL space as the Huge model brute, though the occupy the same PHYSICAL space for the purposes of bounding boxes and size. This means that small characters will have backpacks which "Hover" behind them without some serious reworking and huge people will have their backpacks embedded.
Thirdly: Animations. Several animations simply wouldn't -work- with a backpack or jetpack item. Think of whirling hands. The character leaps and turns in the air, their upper body leading the turn and twisting across their midsection, the legs follow. Wearing a backpack with a single anchor point at the shoulders would cause the lower portions of the pack to intersect with the lower back/hips region. This is ONE animation example, there are many others.
In the End: It will take a huge amount of work to create realistically moving backpacks or jetpacks which don't clip horrendously with the player's body, hover behind it, or look like doggy doo during attack animations.
-Rachel-
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Wait? We HAVE Jet/Rocket Packs already... Whats wrong with just keeping things as is, but allowing us to have them as usable costume parts?
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Backpacks won't work.
Firstly, there's only so many Attachment points on the player model. Without revamping the character models completely, you're stuck with the limited number. Secondly: Sizing issues. A small character doesn't occupy the same VISUAL space as the Huge model brute, though the occupy the same PHYSICAL space for the purposes of bounding boxes and size. This means that small characters will have backpacks which "Hover" behind them without some serious reworking and huge people will have their backpacks embedded. Thirdly: Animations. Several animations simply wouldn't -work- with a backpack or jetpack item. Think of whirling hands. The character leaps and turns in the air, their upper body leading the turn and twisting across their midsection, the legs follow. Wearing a backpack with a single anchor point at the shoulders would cause the lower portions of the pack to intersect with the lower back/hips region. This is ONE animation example, there are many others. In the End: It will take a huge amount of work to create realistically moving backpacks or jetpacks which don't clip horrendously with the player's body, hover behind it, or look like doggy doo during attack animations. -Rachel- |
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Read my post and you'll understand why we can't have them as costume parts.|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Wait? We HAVE Jet/Rocket Packs already... Whats wrong with just keeping things as is, but allowing us to have them as usable costume parts?
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Temp Powers don't use a model-node on the character. They create one, on the fly, which only lasts so long as the power is on and anchors to the centerpoint of the model's position, rather than the model's "Back"
The same can be said of the "Freakshow Disguise" and the "Vahzilok Wasting Disease" temp powers which grant an overlay and an aura, respectively.
-Rachel-
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You bring up a lot of points, but I am watching right now my character doing every move I have with the Jumper Pack with no problems. I am not asking for any new mechanic past having the graphics always on for something like the jumper pack. Its there, it is visible and is designed for dealing with each and every move a character has. Leave the mechanic the same, just allow it to be equitable like a costume peace.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Read my post and you'll understand why we can't have them as costume parts.
Temp Powers don't use a model-node on the character. They create one, on the fly, which only lasts so long as the power is on and anchors to the centerpoint of the model's position, rather than the model's "Back" The same can be said of the "Freakshow Disguise" and the "Vahzilok Wasting Disease" temp powers which grant an overlay and an aura, respectively. -Rachel- |
Your argument is flawed as it is clearly visible that the jet packs are already made to deal with these moves and other actions. Keep things the same.
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No... No it isn't flawed... There are many powers (elude, whirling hands, shield charge, and others) which cause the jet pack to either clip with the body or stick out at an odd angle because the jetpack is RIGID while the spine BENDS. This means the jetpack stays ramrod straight while the body moves. Okay?|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
You bring up a lot of points, but I am watching right now my character doing every move I have with the Jumper Pack with no problems. I am not asking for any new mechanic past having the graphics always on for something like the jumper pack. Its there, it is visible and is designed for dealing with each and every move a character has. Leave the mechanic the same, just allow it to be equitable like a costume peace.
Your argument is flawed as it is clearly visible that the jet packs are already made to deal with these moves and other actions. Keep things the same. |
There's also the issue of NODES. There are only so many precious few left, and it took six years for the devs to decide that tails were important enough to the player base to offer tails and belts as separate options. Is the jetpack more important than mid-leg items like thigh holsters or garters? How about arm-bands and the like? This has to be decided, first. Which will be used by more players, for example.
And then there's the issue of the pack's "Floating" issue. Make a teensy tiny female character and buy the temporary jetpack recipe off the market, or get to level 5 and run an AP Safeguard or Mayhem. The Jetpack will "Hover" almost a foot away from her back, I.E. NOT ATTACHED. Do the same with a "Huge" model character, with all the sliders maxed. You'll find the jetpack is embedded INSIDE of him.
Until all these issues are resolved we will not get jetpacks or backpack items. Because they are RIGID while the player's spine is not, during many animations.
-Rachel-
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Sigh, I understand it is going to have a ton of flaws, but you don't get it. I DON'T CARE that it isn't perfect. All I am asking, despite its imperfect appearance, is one step more than a power activation that only turns on the graphics/animation all the time. Yes I know these things don't work for every model and animation. I AM NOT asking to change this. |
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
No... No it isn't flawed... There are many powers (elude, whirling hands, shield charge, and others) which cause the jet pack to either clip with the body or stick out at an odd angle because the jetpack is RIGID while the spine BENDS. This means the jetpack stays ramrod straight while the body moves. Okay?
There's also the issue of NODES. There are only so many precious few left, and it took six years for the devs to decide that tails were important enough to the player base to offer tails and belts as separate options. Is the jetpack more important than mid-leg items like thigh holsters or garters? How about arm-bands and the like? This has to be decided, first. Which will be used by more players, for example. And then there's the issue of the pack's "Floating" issue. Make a teensy tiny female character and buy the temporary jetpack recipe off the market, or get to level 5 and run an AP Safeguard or Mayhem. The Jetpack will "Hover" almost a foot away from her back, I.E. NOT ATTACHED. Do the same with a "Huge" model character, with all the sliders maxed. You'll find the jetpack is embedded INSIDE of him. Until all these issues are resolved we will not get jetpacks or backpack items. Because they are RIGID while the player's spine is not, during many animations. -Rachel- |
1. Add the jet/rocket pack graphic to the costume editing of some sort, of what we already have.
2. Have an option in costume editing to add and choose the rocket/jet pack.
3. Have this option make the graphic always on if they chose to add it to their costume.
This will allow the user to model their character accordingly, so if they REALLY want the jet pack to look right they can adjust things accordingly.
So why would more options not be better?
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Because it's a matter of standards and quality. That's why.You (singular, alone) might be fine with half-***** and slapdash development. But a lot of others would be annoyed. Particularly the Developers, who have time and again said "If we can't do it well, we won't do it"|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Sigh, I understand it is going to have a ton of flaws, but you don't get it. I DON'T CARE that it isn't perfect. All I am asking, despite its imperfect appearance, is one step more than a power activation that only turns on the graphics/animation all the time. Yes I know these things don't work for every model and animation. I AM NOT asking to change this.
1. Add the jet/rocket pack graphic to the costume editing of some sort, of what we already have. 2. Have an option in costume editing to add and choose the rocket/jet pack. 3. Have this option make the graphic always on if they chose to add it to their costume. This will allow the user to model their character accordingly, so if they REALLY want the jet pack to look right they can adjust things accordingly. So why would more options not be better? |
So... No. No Jetpacks until it can be done well. This is suggested once a month or so, and every time it has to be re-explained. You're actually the first person (to my knowledge) to acknowledge it would look like crap and then say "But that's fine by me!". So bravo on that little achievement...
/thread
-Rachel-
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I acknowledge the that quality is a possible problem, so that is a good point, so I will concede on that end. However it didn't assume it would be a problem as that is how things are already.|
Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Because it's a matter of standards and quality. That's why.You (singular, alone) might be fine with half-***** and slapdash development. But a lot of others would be annoyed. Particularly the Developers, who have time and again said "If we can't do it well, we won't do it"
So... No. No Jetpacks until it can be done well. This is suggested once a month or so, and every time it has to be re-explained. You're actually the first person (to my knowledge) to acknowledge it would look like crap and then say "But that's fine by me!". So bravo on that little achievement... /thread -Rachel- |
Here is a possible fix though. Have 3-9 different settings to each rocket/jet pack. Have a small, medium, and large version of each pack pack for each of the three models. This would only really require a size change to the current models and a proper positioning for that size model rocket pack. Now this would still take some work, as everything takes some work, but it wouldn't be impossible.
On an off topic, what systems do they use to model and animate the game? You seem to know so much about it.
P.S. Don't "/thread" me. This topic had 3 starting points and was open to other people wanting different options to existing things in the game. Maybe someone else wants the Rikti Katana or the Tech Wings, or other similar things changed.
Sexy Jay (the main costumes guy) has already said he won't implement things that he can't make look good, so a floating/embedded backpack option isn't viable at this time. Until they can figure out how to do it RIGHT, you are SOL.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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Okay, I didn't know that. Link Please.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Sexy Jay (the main costumes guy) has already said he won't implement things that he can't make look good, so a floating/embedded backpack option isn't viable at this time. Until they can figure out how to do it RIGHT, you are SOL.
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Search his posting history...I'm too lazy.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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So what do you think about the other 3 subjects? Vanguard Katana, Tech Wings, or Other things.
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Originally Posted by Aggelakis
Search his posting history...I'm too lazy.
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I made a huge mistake. I got the names mixed up, the weapon I want to have color tint able is the Vanguard Katana, not the Rikti Katana. Sorry about the confusion.
Vanguard Katana is colorable.
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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It doesn't say so on Paragon Wiki? Okay thanks.
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That image is pulled directly from Paragon Wiki. Look at the source URL. Additionally:|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
It doesn't say so on Paragon Wiki? Okay thanks.
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http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Weapon_C...zation#Katanas
Paragon Wiki: http://www.paragonwiki.com
City Info Terminal: http://cit.cohtitan.com
Mids Hero Designer: http://www.cohplanner.com
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Originally Posted by Dispari
I don't know why Dink thinks she's not as sexy as Jay was. In 5 posts she's already upstaged his entire career.
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I just logged in and added the "Color tintable;" to the Vanguard Katana and Rularuu's Fang myself. I didn't know the VK was tintable before, but I knew the RF was so I thought while I was there I would add that too.|
Originally Posted by Aggelakis
That image is pulled directly from Paragon Wiki. Look at the source URL. Additionally:
http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Weapon_C...zation#Katanas |
Is the Chinese Blade tintable? I can add that.
Yes, all 3 of the ninja booster swords are tintable. Also, it appears the new pistols haven't been added yet.
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Yeah I noticed this as well. This could use some work.
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Originally Posted by Shadow State
Yes, all 3 of the ninja booster swords are tintable. Also, it appears the new pistols haven't been added yet.
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Bumping
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Bumping is against forum rules.|
Originally Posted by Mad_Cow_Milk
Bumping
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-Rachel-
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Okay
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Originally Posted by Steampunkette
Bumping is against forum rules.
-Rachel- |
I was wondering if we could please add some more options for some of the unlock-able costume parts and weapon variations. This isn't exactly a new weapon or costume thread, as it is dealing specifically with things that already exist, we just want modified.
First Ones I would like to see re-worked
Tech Wings- Yeah we can change the color, but the texture on it makes it 3-4 steps darker than most other costume parts. So a new texture would be great.
Rocket Packs- we get this as a power so often in the game, it would be nice if it could be an actual back item that we can at least add, and eventually change the colors of. Specifically I would like the Jumper Pack be added as a costume part for those who have it. These would work off of their original power or if they have fly or super jump (but do nothing more). Stacking with various flying temp. powers already exists so its just a fact. This has already been discussed to death, so please skip.
I am sure there are many other options others would like to see expanded, what are yours?