Power picks:
You took Barb Swipe but didn't take Quills and Throw Spines.
You did not take Quills and Throw Spines? Is there a specific reason for this? Quills and Throw Spines, together with Spine Burst are the reasons why people usually take Spines as a powerset. Please reconsider your decision to not take Quills and Throw Spines.
Willpower power picks are ok.
But taking Boxing AND Kick is not. Usually you are taking ONE of them on your way to Tough and Weave and ONLY because you have to. Unless you have a really good reason to take both (and I doubt it), you should drop one of them asap.
Physical Perfection is not needed! You have Fast Healing and Quick Recovery from Willpower and Health and Stamina from Fitness which is all you ever need. Actually some people even argue that you could drop Fitness on a */WP, because FH and QR are good enough.
If you drop Physical Perfection, you should consider dropping Focused Accuracy as well and take Tactics instead. The benefits are almost the same but Tactics has only half the end cost and boosts the whole team.
Slotting:
Uh-oh. Err... I really don't want to be impolite, but your slotting is ... um.... horrible.
It just doesn't make any sense. There is not a single power in your build that is slotted ok. I don't want to sound mean or trollish but I seriously recommend to slot your character with SOs or basic IOs instead of using setIOs, so you get a feeling for the strengths and weaknesses of the powers and get your enhancement slot distribution right. And when you are comfortable with your SO build you could start to carefully shave off single enhancement slots here and there to get more space in other places for setIOs. But always make sure, that what you get from slotting setIOs including their bonuses is at least as good as what you already have in your SO build.
Thanks! This is exactly the reality check I wanted in terms of pointing out flaws, as I implied in my original post. There's no question I did not follow the usual formula in the build, and I understand the benefits of Quills and Throw Spines. I've been searching the forums, and read all sorts of comments; including points of view that contradict yours (e.g., there's no reason to take Quills). I took other powers explicitly for set bonuses, and slotted awkwardly for the same reason. For example, why take both boxing and kick but to slot kinetic combat---this is also why I took barb swipe---for the kinetic combat s/l defense. I am completely sympathetic to what you're saying. This goes to my quest for advice: I do not get "typed" defense in WP and how to handle it or whether I should even be trying to slot for it in (in terms of set bonuses) the first place. When you do, it seems like you end up with, as you said, "horrible" slotting. My thinking is that I'd use a single attack chain: lunge->impale->ripper and otherwise slot for survivability. But it's unclear whether such a build is reasonable when surrounded by 10 mobs (teamed or not), given the spines PBAoE/AoE powers.
So this build represents an extreme example of following some forum advice about /WP. That is, slot for defense first, then +regen. However, doing this to any level that makes sense for me (as a person who is used to vector defense) produces this kind of odd build. So I am wondering if anyone can offer any more advice on /WP when combined with Spines.
Some specific questions:
* What is an acceptable level of defense for scrapper WP? Related, is the regular IO slotting of scrapper WP defense powers good enough? (In other words, how much in set bonuses should I look for, if any at all?)
* Should I be more concerned with the spines damage output (note purp slotting in the chained powers: lunge->impale->ripper .. though I question the use of purple sets in lunge/impale)? Should I be looking for more balance? Should I focus on AoE damage?
Current Triumph Server Fifties:
Jim Pinrail (energy/kin defender), James van der Helm (ill/ff controller), Jim Jab (db/sr scrapper), Golden Chalice (emp/rad defender), Exclamation (dm/sd scrapper), Jim-El (elm/sd scrapper), Riparian (spines/wp scrapper), Psychiatric Solution (mind/psi dominator), Tricky Pick (night widow), Hypohipster (km/wp scrapper)
Quote:
I assume you'll have a hard time to find someone who is willing to take the blame. |
Originally Posted by pinrail
So this build represents an extreme example of following some forum advice about /WP. That is, slot for defense first, then +regen. However, doing this to any level that makes sense for me (as a person who is used to vector defense) produces this kind of odd build. So I am wondering if anyone can offer any more advice on /WP when combined with Spines.
Some specific questions: * What is an acceptable level of defense for scrapper WP? Related, is the regular IO slotting of scrapper WP defense powers good enough? (In other words, how much in set bonuses should I look for, if any at all?) * Should I be more concerned with the spines damage output (note purp slotting in the chained powers: lunge->impale->ripper .. though I question the use of purple sets in lunge/impale)? Should I be looking for more balance? Should I focus on AoE damage? |
When you slot WP, you slot for defense first, then HP, then recovery and then regen and resistance. Recharge depends on your attack chain. If you don't want to prove something you could always add another power to your attack chain thus reducing the need for recharge.
Here are examples of how you could cap Def:Melee or Def:S/L. Please ignore the order in which I took the powers. I just clicked them randomly to fill the power picks fast. Please note: these are only examples I made on the fly. With some thought and effort you might find better ways. And don't let the hunt for more defense dominate your build too much. Find a balance that you can enjoy. And yes, this includes a good damage output as well.
Capped Def:Melee
Code:
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Capped Def:S/L
Code:
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Quote:
Still needs work probably, but here's what I have after 30 minutes of toying with the build given your examples.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
When you slot WP, you slot for defense first, then HP, then recovery and then regen and resistance. Recharge depends on your attack chain. If you don't want to prove something you could always add another power to your attack chain thus reducing the need for recharge.
Here are examples of how you could cap Def:Melee or Def:S/L. |
Thanks for your help. (Note the order of the power selection is different than what I expect from a final build---e.g., barb swipe would be taken earlier.)
I took the approach of softcapping s/l defense here. My focus on first build I posted was away form fully softcapping s/l defense, and instead toward fire/cold/nrg/negnrg, since s/l resistance is so strong in the set, but apparently that's not a typical technique (and perhaps does not work too well?).
If you're inclined, please let me know what you think.
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Riparian: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Darkness Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(15), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(36), KntkC'bat-Knock%(36), Acc-I(37), Dmg-I(37)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Heal-I(15), Heal-I(21), Heal-I(34)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtmC'tng-ResDam/Rchg(3), TtmC'tng-EndRdx/Rchg(3), TtmC'tng-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TtmC'tng-ResDam(11), TtmC'tng-EndRdx(13)
Level 4: Spine Burst -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(5), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(5), Oblit-%Dam(7), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 6: Build Up -- RechRdx-I(A), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(7), Rec'dRet-ToHit(33), RechRdx-I(40)
Level 8: Impale -- Enf'dOp-Acc/Rchg(A), Enf'dOp-EndRdx/Immob(9), Enf'dOp-Acc/EndRdx(9), Enf'dOp-Immob/Rng(19), Dmg-I(29)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(13)
Level 14: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(17)
Level 16: Health -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(17)
Level 18: Rise to the Challenge -- DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(A), DisWord-ToHitDeb(19), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg(40), Heal-I(40)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(21)
Level 22: Fast Healing -- Heal-I(A), Heal-I(23), Heal-I(23)
Level 24: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Knock%(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(39)
Level 26: Ripper -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(34), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def(A), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 30: Tough -- RctvArm-ResDam(A), RctvArm-EndRdx(31), RctvArm-ResDam/Rchg(31), RctvArm-ResDam/EndRdx(31)
Level 32: Weave -- LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33)
Level 35: Throw Spines -- Ragnrk-Dmg(A), Ragnrk-Dmg/EndRdx(37), Ragnrk-Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Ragnrk-Acc/Rchg(43)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), LkGmblr-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 41: Quills -- Oblit-Dmg(A), Oblit-Acc/Rchg(42), Oblit-%Dam(43), Oblit-Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), Oblit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 44: Torrent -- SipInsght-ToHitDeb(A), SipInsght-%ToHit(45), SipInsght-Acc/ToHitDeb(46), SipInsght-Acc/Rchg(46), SipInsght-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(48)
Level 47: Barb Swipe -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 49: Stamina -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(50)
------------
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 2: Ninja Run
Code:
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Current Triumph Server Fifties:
Jim Pinrail (energy/kin defender), James van der Helm (ill/ff controller), Jim Jab (db/sr scrapper), Golden Chalice (emp/rad defender), Exclamation (dm/sd scrapper), Jim-El (elm/sd scrapper), Riparian (spines/wp scrapper), Psychiatric Solution (mind/psi dominator), Tricky Pick (night widow), Hypohipster (km/wp scrapper)
Quote:
First thing I notice is that you have a serious endurance problem with this build and that your slotting is .... less than sub optimal. And you slotted many generic IOs instead of slotting setIOs. Is there a specific reason? Btw, I don't think 30 minutes is much when you create a new build. If you want a good build you should be willing to put some effort into it. You could start by cleaning up your build and finish slotting it. And maybe do some research in the Scrapper section of the forum and find out why it's unwise to 6-slot Quills with Obliteration and many other things about Spines/* and */WP. Don't just look for Spine/WP threads. Even if you check only the most recent posts, you will find a Spines/Fire build from Kioshi, Spines/Invuln builds from Wanted_NA, Fury Flechette, and me and Spines/Elec builds from Maximal and Chaos String (Elec has Energize so you need to keep on eye on end when you compare power slottings) within the last 24 hours. For */WP you need to go back a little further. You'll find builds for Fire/WP, Kat/WP and DB/WP and more Spines/* builds and many more the further you go. And you can learn something from each of the builds.|
Originally Posted by pinrail
Still needs work probably, but here's what I have after 30 minutes of toying with the build given your examples.
Thanks for your help. (Note the order of the power selection is different than what I expect from a final build---e.g., barb swipe would be taken earlier.) I took the approach of softcapping s/l defense here. My focus on first build I posted was away form fully softcapping s/l defense, and instead toward fire/cold/nrg/negnrg, since s/l resistance is so strong in the set, but apparently that's not a typical technique (and perhaps does not work too well?). If you're inclined, please let me know what you think. |
I mentioned it before. You should really consider playing your Spines/WP for a while and forget about IOs. You will learn a lot about your character and the powersets if you just keep it simple at the start and only slot with TOs, DOs and SOs. Yes, you probably don't want to hear this, but it's true.
Quote:
I completely agree.|
Originally Posted by Myriad
First thing I notice is that you have a serious endurance problem with this build and that your slotting is .... less than sub optimal. And you slotted many generic IOs instead of slotting setIOs. Is there a specific reason? Btw, I don't think 30 minutes is much when you create a new build. If you want a good build you should be willing to put some effort into it.
|
Quote:
|
Originally Posted by Myriad
Yes, you probably don't want to hear this, but it's true.
|
Current Triumph Server Fifties:
Jim Pinrail (energy/kin defender), James van der Helm (ill/ff controller), Jim Jab (db/sr scrapper), Golden Chalice (emp/rad defender), Exclamation (dm/sd scrapper), Jim-El (elm/sd scrapper), Riparian (spines/wp scrapper), Psychiatric Solution (mind/psi dominator), Tricky Pick (night widow), Hypohipster (km/wp scrapper)
Quote:
If what you think I'm thinking about you is what I think it is, you're wrong. |
Originally Posted by pinrail
Well, I do want to hear your advice. That's why I'm asking. I think you somehow have an incorrect model of me in your mind. But you can see that I'm green when it comes to spines/* and */WP, so I guess from your point of view it's a little like a 2 year old asking how to write a novel. You can talk until you're blue in the face, but the experiential basis just isn't there. So I'll stop with this until I grow up a little. :-)
|
It's just that it seems to me that a lot of people have a wrong approach to this stuff. It is one thing if someone played their toon to higher levels and asks for a IO build. These people know their powers and probably developed an individual playstyle (or maybe they know the powersets because they played them in other combinations). It's easier to help them, because they know what they need and what they want. Take Spines:Impale for example. My opinion about it is, that the animation/cast time is too long to be really useful in an attack chain at higher levels - especially since I'm geared towards AoE. That's why I have no problems to slot this power with immob. IOs. Other people want as much damage in it as possible and would never even think about slotting for anything else but damage. You need to play and experience it to make up your mind about how you want to use it. I would bet that any build we create today would change when you get close to L50 and actually start IOing your toon because you'll learn a few things on your way to L50. Unless you have a PLed L50 without a build you're going to level your character anyway. So just have fun with it and worry about IOs later. Happy hunting.
I'm new to willpower, and am struggling with it.
My philosophy with this build revolves around trying to raise (typed) defense to high levels first, then focus on +regen. But I have a feeling I went a little wild here. Am I overdoing the defense focus? Am I proposing a reasonable build? I welcome any suggestions--including the possibility that this build has major flaws.
(Note I plan to use ninja run for travel.)
Thanks!
Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.621
http://www.cohplanner.com/
Click this DataLink to open the build!
Riparian: Level 50 Mutation Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Spines
Secondary Power Set: Willpower
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fitness
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Body Mastery
Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lunge -- Hectmb-Dmg(A), Hectmb-Dmg/Rchg(36), Hectmb-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), Hectmb-Acc/Rchg(37), Hectmb-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 1: High Pain Tolerance -- Aegis-Psi/Status(A), Aegis-ResDam(3), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(15), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(40)
Level 2: Mind Over Body -- S'fstPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Aegis-ResDam/Rchg(3), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(11), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(13)
Level 4: Spine Burst -- Erad-%Dam(A), Erad-Dmg(5), Erad-Acc/Rchg(5)
Level 6: Build Up -- GSFC-ToHit(A), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg(7), GSFC-ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(7), GSFC-ToHit/EndRdx(33), GSFC-Build%(40), GSFC-Rchg/EndRdx(43)
Level 8: Impale -- Apoc-Dmg(A), Apoc-Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Apoc-Acc/Rchg(29), Apoc-Dmg/EndRdx(48)
Level 10: Indomitable Will -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 12: Combat Jumping -- DefBuff-I(A), LkGmblr-Def(13), LkGmblr-Rchg+(37)
Level 14: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A), Jump-I(15)
Level 16: Health -- Numna-Heal/Rchg(A), Numna-EndRdx/Rchg(17), Numna-Heal(17), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(31), Numna-Regen/Rcvry+(36), Numna-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(46)
Level 18: Rise to the Challenge -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(19), DisWord-ToHitDeb(19), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg(23), DisWord-ToHitDeb/Rchg/EndRdx(34)
Level 20: Quick Recovery -- P'Shift-End%(A), P'Shift-EndMod(21), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(21)
Level 22: Fast Healing -- Numna-Heal(A), Numna-Heal/EndRdx(23), Numna-Heal/Rchg(40)
Level 24: Kick -- KntkC'bat-Knock%(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(25), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(25), KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(39)
Level 26: Ripper -- Armgdn-Dmg(A), Armgdn-Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Armgdn-Acc/Rchg(34), Armgdn-Dmg/EndRdx(34)
Level 28: Heightened Senses -- LkGmblr-Def(A), DefBuff-I(29), LkGmblr-Rchg+(43)
Level 30: Tough -- Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx(A), Aegis-ResDam(31), Aegis-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31)
Level 32: Weave -- DefBuff-I(A), LkGmblr-Def(33), LkGmblr-Rchg+(33)
Level 35: Barb Swipe -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Knock%(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 38: Maneuvers -- LkGmblr-Rchg+(A), LkGmblr-Def(39), DefBuff-I(39)
Level 41: Focused Accuracy -- Rec'dRet-ToHit(A), Rec'dRet-Pcptn(42), EndRdx-I(43)
Level 44: Physical Perfection -- P'Shift-EndMod/Acc/Rchg(A), P'Shift-EndMod(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Rchg(45), P'Shift-Acc/Rchg(45), P'Shift-EndMod/Acc(46), P'Shift-End%(46)
Level 47: Boxing -- KntkC'bat-Acc/Dmg(A), KntkC'bat-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntkC'bat-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntkC'bat-Knock%(50)
Level 49: Stamina -- P'Shift-EndMod(A), P'Shift-End%(50)
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Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- ULeap-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Critical Hit
Level 2: Ninja Run
Current Triumph Server Fifties:
Jim Pinrail (energy/kin defender), James van der Helm (ill/ff controller), Jim Jab (db/sr scrapper), Golden Chalice (emp/rad defender), Exclamation (dm/sd scrapper), Jim-El (elm/sd scrapper), Riparian (spines/wp scrapper), Psychiatric Solution (mind/psi dominator), Tricky Pick (night widow), Hypohipster (km/wp scrapper)