Medical Stalkers


beyeajus

 

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
Why is it so difficult to comprehend a character that has generalized abilities rather than specialized purpose? The OP noticed when a team wipes, he's usually the last one standing. The options have been laid before you and it's up to you if you want to take them all or some and which.
No, THIS.

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Originally Posted by Negate View Post
My stalker used to carry wakies. I was a nin/nin so I always outlasted everyone on the team. When that happened I would fling our waterspout and just wail on the biggest nasty until he died. Giving the brute or Corr to regain their senses so they could piece back together the team.
I hadn't considered that, thanks for the tip.

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Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
I certainly look forward to seeing your results. It always struck me as something interesting how Stalkers are the sneaky rogue class but "only" got the option to be damage dealers. Especially in light of the ability to sometimes out survive the rest of the team and the whole stealth/tp thing.

See, now you've got me wanting to roll another Stalker just to experiment and I really don't need any more alts.
See? He gets it.

Still working on the slotting, RL can be such a pain...


 

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Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
I certainly look forward to seeing your results. It always struck me as something interesting how Stalkers are the sneaky rogue class but "only" got the option to be damage dealers. Especially in light of the ability to sometimes out survive the rest of the team and the whole stealth/tp thing.
Damage dealing should always be top priority, but that doesn't mean you can't be team-friendly in other ways. Ninjitsu in particular can offer some minor control abilities with Caltrops and BP. Heck, just Caltrops can help you not only protect yourself, but protect your team. They are fantastic on the ITF with all the ambushes. Plop them down in front of one and the whole thing just piles into them like a train wreck, at which point anyone in the team with an AoE instantly loves you.

The patron hold is nice for those annoying minions and LTs you don't want to deal with immediately. I use it on things like Nulifiers, Surgeons, and Sappers and then go to town on something bigger. Or just use it to help stack hold mag with your team on bosses, EBs, and AVs.

Medicine Pool is not a terrible idea, but I think you'd get more constant use out of Leadership. Resuscitate only lets you pick one person up and often they don't need your help to self-rez. By contrast, Assault, Tactics, Maneuvers, and Vengeance help the whole team. The first three all the time and the last helping the rest of the team turn around a wipeout-in-progress. Pick three to replace your Medicine powers. Not to mention Tactics can come in handy for your own ability to hit high-defense enemies like tightly-packed Cimerorans using Phalanx Fighting.

Just some alternate ideas.


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Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer

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Don't get be wrong, the frontloaded damage on a Stalker is great but I'm curious about other possibilities added on to that. Perhaps my every discussion should have the disclaimer: "Not sane. Took Dimension Shift on purpose on a Dominator and has actually put it to use."

Not saying yay or nay but merely adding to the discussion: Would the endurance cost of 3 Leadership toggles be a hinderance instead of a help to a Stalker? Wondering a number of other things like would it be best to avoid having a travel power or should you "default" to Teleport so you can get Recall Friend? Which patron would be best or perhaps avoid a patron altogether?


 

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Originally Posted by Zem View Post
Damage dealing should always be top priority, but that doesn't mean you can't be team-friendly in other ways. Ninjitsu in particular can offer some minor control abilities with Caltrops and BP. Heck, just Caltrops can help you not only protect yourself, but protect your team. They are fantastic on the ITF with all the ambushes. Plop them down in front of one and the whole thing just piles into them like a train wreck, at which point anyone in the team with an AoE instantly loves you.

The patron hold is nice for those annoying minions and LTs you don't want to deal with immediately. I use it on things like Nulifiers, Surgeons, and Sappers and then go to town on something bigger. Or just use it to help stack hold mag with your team on bosses, EBs, and AVs.

Medicine Pool is not a terrible idea, but I think you'd get more constant use out of Leadership. Resuscitate only lets you pick one person up and often they don't need your help to self-rez. By contrast, Assault, Tactics, Maneuvers, and Vengeance help the whole team. The first three all the time and the last helping the rest of the team turn around a wipeout-in-progress. Pick three to replace your Medicine powers. Not to mention Tactics can come in handy for your own ability to hit high-defense enemies like tightly-packed Cimerorans using Phalanx Fighting.

Just some alternate ideas.
Now that's what I'm talking about. Not just to chime in w/ a "you're wrong", but to give a why and wherefore. Thanks Zem, you've given me food for thought, and an idea for another of my stalkers. Again, well done.

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Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
Don't get be wrong, the frontloaded damage on a Stalker is great but I'm curious about other possibilities added on to that. Perhaps my every discussion should have the disclaimer: "Not sane. Took Dimension Shift on purpose on a Dominator and has actually put it to use."

Not saying yay or nay but merely adding to the discussion: Would the endurance cost of 3 Leadership toggles be a hinderance instead of a help to a Stalker? Wondering a number of other things like would it be best to avoid having a travel power or should you "default" to Teleport so you can get Recall Friend? Which patron would be best or perhaps avoid a patron altogether?
No, I think you and I are on the same page. I get bored playing toons "as the Dev's intended". I pride myself on the ability to think outside the box, and problem solve on the fly.

Also, i would reccommend the Martial Arts Booster to all stalkers. Ninja run, when backed by the fitness power pool, is awesome. It's not SS or SJ, but it's like having a light mix of the two, and it frees up 2 powerslots, which is, once again, why I even considered this endevour in the first place.


 

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Seems to me that if you used the 3-4 attacks, ninja run, all of fitness, aid other/self/rez, all of leadership, you would still be very strong. Hmmmm


 

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Originally Posted by Darth_Vernon View Post
...aid other/self/rez...
I'm not even sure you need Aid Self pending on your primary and secondary. You can get the rez by taking Aid Other + Stimulant since the 4th pool pick requires two previous powers but doesn't matter which two. Stim compliments the rez since it'll break them out of the stunned state allowing them to Rest/self heal so you can either heal another team mate or run off and gank something.


 

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Originally Posted by Sokyoku View Post
Also, i would reccommend the Martial Arts Booster to all stalkers. Ninja run, when backed by the fitness power pool, is awesome. It's not SS or SJ, but it's like having a light mix of the two, and it frees up 2 powerslots, which is, once again, why I even considered this endevour in the first place.
At least in my build it would only save me 1 power: SJ itself. And since I do not have any additional slots in SJ it doesn't free up any enhancement slots I could use on a replacement power or somewhere else. Whatever I replaced SJ with would have to work well with only the one enhancement slot or I'd have to pull slots from some other powers, weaking them and possibly losing me some set bonuses. I just can't live without CJ + Hurdle for unsupressed combat mobility. When your offense is primarily all melee range, being able to GET into melee is vitally important. Sprint+Swift+Hurdle is okay but it's not got a lot of aerial control. Ninja Run itself is no good in combat because it supresses like any other travel power when you attack.


Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
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Posted

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zamuel View Post
I'm not even sure you need Aid Self pending on your primary and secondary. You can get the rez by taking Aid Other + Stimulant since the 4th pool pick requires two previous powers but doesn't matter which two. Stim compliments the rez since it'll break them out of the stunned state allowing them to Rest/self heal so you can either heal another team mate or run off and gank something.
If you take /Nin or /WP, you get a self heal, thereby rendering aid self relatively useless, IMO.


 

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Good point.



 

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Originally Posted by Sokyoku View Post
If you take /Nin or /WP, you get a self heal, thereby rendering aid self relatively useless, IMO.
Less needed but hardly useless. Reconstruction and Sha are on 60s base recharge timers. You'd get plenty of use out of Aid Self on a Ninjitsu prior to being soft-capped. Even after soft-capping defense, topping-off health as often as possible has the distinct advantage of preventing you from being one-shot by NPCs.

If I was going to take *any* Medicine pool power it'd be Aid Self.


Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
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Posted

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Originally Posted by Zem View Post
Less needed but hardly useless. Reconstruction and Sha are on 60s base recharge timers. You'd get plenty of use out of Aid Self on a Ninjitsu prior to being soft-capped. Even after soft-capping defense, topping-off health as often as possible has the distinct advantage of preventing you from being one-shot by NPCs.

If I was going to take *any* Medicine pool power it'd be Aid Self.
You'll note I said relatively useless.

I'm less concerned with healing myself, and more interested in making my MA/Nin stalker more team-friendly without losing what little edge I have.

I have begun the arduous task of slotting, and would like to ask what's the best set for AS? On my first build I slotted touch of death, but was considering mako's bite for my medic build. I, admittedly, haven't done the required legwork to contrast/compare simply because I haven't had the time between work and RL commitments. Any/all suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!


 

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Originally Posted by Sokyoku View Post
You'll note I said relatively useless.
Okay then relative to Stimulant, which would be your other choice, I'd say it is more useful. I tend to define useful by how often you will use a power as much as by its effect when you DO end up using it. I've taken Stimulant before on other characters and ended up not using it as much as I thought I would. By contrast there have been many times with my soft-capped Ninjitsu stalker with excellent Sha self-heal where I have had to pull away from a fight because there was a risk of being taken out by the next lucky shot and Sha was still recharging. Another self-heal would have put me immediately back into the fight.

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I'm less concerned with healing myself, and more interested in making my MA/Nin stalker more team-friendly without losing what little edge I have.
Then take Provoke.

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I have begun the arduous task of slotting, and would like to ask what's the best set for AS? On my first build I slotted touch of death, but was considering mako's bite for my medic build. I, admittedly, haven't done the required legwork to contrast/compare simply because I haven't had the time between work and RL commitments. Any/all suggestions would be appreciated. Thanks!
What set you choose for AS is more likely to depend on what set bonuses you are building for. Mako's will give you some ranged defense, if I remember right. T'Death will give you melee defense. Other than that just make sure whatever you choose is pushing the ED limit for damage.


Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer

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Originally Posted by Leo_G View Post
I don't think he asked for a crap buff-bot build.
So he can take that extreme, drop what he doesn't want to push it closer to "regular stalker" and find whatever balance he wants.

I did say I threw that together for the hell of it, and that it probably wouldn't be fun to play.


 

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Originally Posted by Zem View Post
Okay then relative to Stimulant, which would be your other choice, I'd say it is more useful. I tend to define useful by how often you will use a power as much as by its effect when you DO end up using it. I've taken Stimulant before on other characters and ended up not using it as much as I thought I would. By contrast there have been many times with my soft-capped Ninjitsu stalker with excellent Sha self-heal where I have had to pull away from a fight because there was a risk of being taken out by the next lucky shot and Sha was still recharging. Another self-heal would have put me immediately back into the fight.
Once again, you fail to disappoint. I hadn't considered that I might not use stimulant as much as aid self, as I've never taken the medicine pool for any of my toons.

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Originally Posted by Zem
Then take Provoke.
Is drawing aggro to my stalker wise? Seems that might raise my mortality rate. Never used this power pool, either, so I have no point of reference on this.

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Originally Posted by Zem
What set you choose for AS is more likely to depend on what set bonuses you are building for. Mako's will give you some ranged defense, if I remember right. T'Death will give you melee defense. Other than that just make sure whatever you choose is pushing the ED limit for damage.
So it's a personal preference then?


 

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Originally Posted by Sokyoku View Post
Once again, you fail to disappoint. I hadn't considered that I might not use stimulant as much as aid self, as I've never taken the medicine pool for any of my toons.
Well the point about using it after Resuscitate is probably a good one too, to be fair. And you might use it preemptively on someone who lacks mez protection before entering a fight with something like Rikti mesmerists. However this also might mean you are late getting to melee range. I typically want to be drawing a little 'x' on some hapless boss's left kidney by the time the brute rolls into aggro range. If you can juggle these activities and really don't care about the extra self heal, eh... maybe go for it after all. Depending on how many respecs you have available, experimenting might not be a big deal. There is only so much forum theorycrafting we can do here.

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Is drawing aggro to my stalker wise? Seems that might raise my mortality rate. Never used this power pool, either, so I have no point of reference on this.
Neither have I. I was sort of kidding. Sort of. I've made a running joke with some of my friends and VG mates that I would take Taunt on my nin/nin stalker since she is well able to handle the aggro. That said, it would come at the expense of either Super Jump or Retsu and while I barely use Retsu anymore it does provide a storage compartment for one of my LOTG recharges at the very least. Still... I can just imagine the looks I'd get if someone saw a stalker taunt a whole group of mobs. Maybe *I* should work on a lower-cost alternate build for fun that includes it.

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So it's a personal preference then?
Yeah, I wouldn't say there is any one set that stands out as a must-have. Some people will Frankenslot by mixing and matching to get the best possible enhancement values for accuracy, damage, endurance, etc. I don't really think anything but decent accuracy and around 90ish% damage are actually must-have and you can accomplish that with either T'Death or Mako's. T'Death is slightly better on damage and Mako's is slightly better on accuracy. Similar set bonuses except for one being Melee and the other Ranged. On my nin/nin with Divine Avalanche for melee defense I pretty much just focused on Ranged defense soft-capping. I'd just play around a bit with slotting options in Mid's. It makes a good calculator for enhancements and set bonuses.

One thing I personally wouldn't do is slot Hecatomb at 50. Not just because purples are ridiculous to come by these days but because I just think it's better spent on whatever you consider your bread-and-butter normal attack. Probably a Tier 8 or 9 attack. AS, even on a soft-capped Stalker isn't a sure bet in the thick of melee on a full team so it's likely not something you will use even as often as it is up and available after the opening strike so I figure as long as it's set pretty well for damage... it's good.


Villains: Annie Alias, Dr. Amperical, Shade Golem, Knight Marksman
Heroes: The Clockwork Mime, Soccerpunch, The Fissioneer, Samurai Houston, Oversteer

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